Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

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Axaday

Active member
Citizen
There are things you just have to expect from a prequel, especially a prequel to something made so long ago. I don't blame a modern-day female character for not being written like she's going to naturally turn into a dowager from a 1960s show. Nor do I find fault with Uhura being so incredibly impressive right from the start as a cadet, given that she will eventually be relegated to answering Captain Kirk's phone calls.

Uhura didn't really get to shine in TOS, but she never made a mistake that we saw. Always reliable. This doesn't feel to me like a departure. Just a lot more sunshine on her. Chapel feels like a departure. I don't blame them for not writing a character like she's going to naturally turn into a dowager, but I blame them a little for using an established character that they didn't need to when they didn't intend to be truthful about it.
 

Dvandom

Well-known member
Citizen
Chapel's subplot was basically explaining how she goes from how she is "now" to how she ends up in TOS. She pushes people away before the relationship can get too deep, and in a few years finds herself with no real connections save for a hopeless pining for the one person who never let her get close enough that she could be the one doing the pushing away. She doesn't allow herself the kind of emotional support that would let her recover from a serious failure or loss, and eventually something will happen from which she can't just bounce back, leaving her a faintly mournful ghost of herself. (It might even be Pike's fate that breaks her. Come to think of it, with T'Pring seeming to get over some of her misgivings this episode, the Menagerie might be her last straw as well, deciding that Spock will always put his human friends above even his own life, much less hers.)

---Dave
 

Dake

Well-known member
Citizen
Chapel feels like a departure. I don't blame them for not writing a character like she's going to naturally turn into a dowager, but I blame them a little for using an established character that they didn't need to when they didn't intend to be truthful about it.

It's weird to me that people seem to be saying that Chapel was a mostly forgettable character and therefore it's wrong that she is being given depth. So she was Trek's Ms Moneypenny. That's not really something to strive for in the modern age.

In any case, she's here now and I for one appreciate it.

Anyhoo - who would've expected that the premiere of The Orville would be super serious and the same week's Star Trek would be
Freaky Friday
? I loved it!
 

G.B.Blackrock

Active member
Citizen
It's not "wrong" that Chapel is being given depth (speaking only for myself). But since I have trouble reconciling this specific depth with the character we saw in TOS, I just decide I can't dwell on that. If I have to think of this Chapel as a different person entirely, I'm okay with that, and I'm not going to criticize the current showrunners for that decision. THIS Chapel is who we've got now, in THIS show, and she's a fun part of it.

But, at the end of the day, I DO have to think of her as a different person.
 

Dvandom

Well-known member
Citizen
Between now and TOS, Chapel gets married and then loses her husband, plus may have blamed herself for Pike's fate for all we know. She took a LOT of emotional hits in the next few years, and was probably still in wobbly recovery during TOS.

---Dave
 

Axaday

Active member
Citizen
Several people have the impression that Pike's accident happens on the Enterprise. Maybe this show is going to do that, but probably not. He was promoted to fleet captain. His accident happens on a cadet vessel.
 

The Doctor Who

Now With Sheffield Steel!
Citizen
Yeah, for all intents and purposes, Pike has an entirely successful run on the Enterprise before handing it over to Kirk. Kirk doesn't even know Pike was crippled until the events of The Cage.

I do think it's a mistake to expect characters who were on TOS to be identical to their portrayals there. Uhura being a fresh-faced cadet, still getting her bearings in Star Fleet should set the tone for what we look for. This is a full five year mission (or so) away from Kirk taking over and we don't really know how long Kirk was commanding before TOS.

Like, people change. Five years of To Boldly Go-ing can leave a mark. I'll be interested to see how they handle it, since they do appear to be interested in addressing how events affect the crew.

That said, after this episode, I get what they're doing with Chapel and kinda like it. She's not the same character, but the same archetype. Socially awkward, has trouble opening up about her feelings unless it's to The One. This one is just a goofy extrovert rather than a melancholy introvert.

Speaking of this episode... I really loved it! Pike's facial acting continues to be outstanding and they continue to pay homage to the ideas and feelings of Trek without being a wrote retread or clueless reenactment. I especially appreciate their lowkey rehabilitation of Vulcans as a race. Post TOS, Vulcans have been given the shortest of sticks as writers seem to forget that they're not meant to be emotionless, but highly emotional people practicing a strict mental discipline. I feel like this is the first time in a long while that they've struck that balance successfully.

Plot wise,
I loved Spock's nightmare and the musical homage used to underscore the surrealness of it. Loved the body-swap and how effectively it was used to advance both major plots without bogging either down. I loved Pike's gambit at the end, which really felt like a proper 'need to understand and meet other cultures halfway' type moment which Trek hasn't done a lot of.

Just, they're continuing to knock this out of the park!
 
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Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
I loved Spock/T'Pring's line about "our clearly different mannerisms" as they were both standing side-by-side with the exact same posture.

Also, people keep talking about how the show will handle Pike's impending accident --that's ten years away. How long do you think this show's going to run?
 

Covert Agent Rodimal

Member
Citizen
I get the impression that Pike's accident happen just a few weeks or months before the events of The Menagerie (aka The Cage), just long enough for him to recover has much has he could, and Spock took advantage of the Enterprise being in the area when they got the news.
 

G.B.Blackrock

Active member
Citizen
Several people have the impression that Pike's accident happens on the Enterprise. Maybe this show is going to do that, but probably not. He was promoted to fleet captain. His accident happens on a cadet vessel.
Indeed, it's not supposed to happen for many years yet.
 

Dake

Well-known member
Citizen
Considering it's been one of the few plot points to carry though multiple episodes, I'd be surprised if we don't see it at some point, be it a flash-forward, or something.
 

G.B.Blackrock

Active member
Citizen
I do think it's a mistake to expect characters who were on TOS to be identical to their portrayals there. Uhura being a fresh-faced cadet, still getting her bearings in Star Fleet should set the tone for what we look for. This is a full five year mission (or so) away from Kirk taking over and we don't really know how long Kirk was commanding before TOS.

To the extent that this kind of comment is directed to things I, myself, have said, I should make clear, my concern is not about being "identical" to other portrayals. Perhaps a better word would be "congruent."

Like, people change. Five years of To Boldly Go-ing can leave a mark. I'll be interested to see how they handle it, since they do appear to be interested in addressing how events affect the crew.

Indisputably true. The question is, how much of that trajectory is more or less visible, and how much the change seems a disconnect. As someone else said, Uhura's portrayal doesn't really seem at odds with her later portrayal in the way I've felt Chapel's does.

Now, is it impossible that future events will close the gaps? Not at all. And I'm perfectly happy to wait things out and see where they go. I've tried to bend over backwards to say I LIKE this Chapel, and I'm not at all upset that the writers are handling things this way. But I'm not wasting time with the mental gymnastics trying to figure out how we get from "here" to "there." I'm shelving that whole concern, and just enjoying this Chapel, as she is, rather than trying to reconcile her with the Chapel from TOS.
 

Cradok

Active member
Citizen
One one hand, doing a katra swap feels a bit... dodgy? I dunno, we see Vulcans shuffle their souls around enough that Surak's still exists two thousand years after he died, and Spock bumped his twice, but I'm still not a fan.

On the other hand, it was done so well that I don't actually care. And the rest of the episode was similarly good.

(On the third hand, it does sour things a bit that we know that T'Pring will end up being a manipulative shrew who engineers the death of a Starfleet captain because she feels unloved).

As for Chapel, yeah, there's very little of SNW Chapel in TOS Chapel, but our main experience with her is in TOS, after finding her fiancé turned himself into a robot and made himself a robot sex doll. That kind of thing changes people. Although according to Memory Alpha, SNW takes places in 2259 and Korby disappears in 2261, so that's not much time.
 

Sean Whitmore

Member
Citizen
(On the third hand, it does sour things a bit that we know that T'Pring will end up being a manipulative shrew who engineers the death of a Starfleet captain because she feels unloved).

As classic as that episode is for the character moments and the music and all that...it is batcrap insane that the planet of super-intelligent logic lovers have arranged marriages that can only be broken via fights to the death.

But viewed through that lens, I can still think of T'Pring as somewhat less than evil. She's an alien, fights to the death are part of her weird-ass culture, so hell, why not try to move that death over to some guy she's never met.
 

Dvandom

Well-known member
Citizen
According to Memory Alpha, "Amok Time" takes place 8 years after "Amok Spock." That means SNW season 2 would be due for a Pon Farr episode...if it doesn't happen (due to Spock's half-human heritage, or other extenuating circumstances), that might be the wedge that pushes T'Pring away again despite the improved relationship in Amok Spock.

---Dave
 
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