(Potentially) Stolen Transformers (& the YouTubers that Review Them)

[Galvaplexia]

Honest question: who are we really supposed to be mad at here? People who steal toys from the factory. Ok. Who’s getting stolen from? A big corporation. And that’s… bad? Am I missing something here? Does the little man somehow get hurt here is why all the vitriol is justified? Are the factory workers punished when a copy of something goes missing?

Or are we just mad that some people got toys before we did?

Again, I’m not being a bitch; I’m just trying to understand what the deal is here.

 

[Gizmoboy]

Honest question: who are we really supposed to be mad at here? People who steal toys from the factory. Ok. Who’s getting stolen from? A big corporation. And that’s… bad? Am I missing something here? Does the little man somehow get hurt here is why all the vitriol is justified? Are the factory workers punished when a copy of something goes missing?

Or are we just mad that some people got toys before we did?

Again, I’m not being a bitch; I’m just trying to understand what the deal is here.

So much this. I'm not really seeing much to get angry about here.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Oh, I've never heard of them. Is there any info about them?

He's the guy a lot of early reviewers buy their samples from, for incredibly inflated prices.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

Also I don't think it was because they said a slur. They slapped the slur onto one of the images they leaked out so people would be less likely to spread it around, and it didn't help nearly as well as they thought.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Honest question: who are we really supposed to be mad at here? People who steal toys from the factory. Ok. Who’s getting stolen from? A big corporation. And that’s… bad? Am I missing something here? Does the little man somehow get hurt here is why all the vitriol is justified? Are the factory workers punished when a copy of something goes missing?

Or are we just mad that some people got toys before we did?

Again, I’m not being a bitch; I’m just trying to understand what the deal is here.

Thanks for your question! I've posted links to and/or about various opinions regarding your question in the first post in this thread (Including my own and others' takes on it). You can find a range of Reddit discussions, other videos, etc that cover this subject. Hope it helps.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I didn't ask what other people who aren't posting on this forum thought, I asked what YOU thought. Why is this important to YOU, PrimalXConvoy.

 

[Galvaplexia]

Thanks for your question! I've posted links to and/or about various opinions regarding your question in the first post in this thread (Including my own and others' takes on it). You can find a range of Reddit discussions, other videos, etc that cover this subject. Hope it helps.

I might be too autistic for these videos, but if these helped clarify y’all’s perspective, I wouldn’t be asking. These seemed more about proving these people stole these toys. Ok, fine, I concede that they did. I believe you and they are indeed thieves and possess stolen goods.

SO. WHAT??

Hundreds of thousands of castles of capitalist empires sit on stolen land all over the world, be they office buildings or mansions or factories or golf courses. But some British and Filipino content creators supposedly mopped a couple of pieces of plastic from one or more of these places, probably paying out the nose to give some reparations to a local indigenous person who actually did the mopping and who is indentured into one of these many production factories that invaded their land w/o giving them any say in the matter; just so they can make some videos about some pieces of plastic they love… but somehow these videographers are the scum of the earth?

Again, who are we mad at, and why??

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

I might be too autistic for these videos, but if these helped clarify y’all’s perspective, I wouldn’t be asking. These seemed more about proving these people stole these toys. Ok, fine, I concede that they did. I believe you and they are indeed thieves and possess stolen goods.

SO. WHAT??

Hundreds of thousands of castles of capitalist empires sit on stolen land all over the world, be they office buildings or mansions or factories or golf courses. But some British and Filipino content creators supposedly mopped a couple of pieces of plastic from one or more of these places, probably paying out the nose to give some reparations to a local indigenous person who actually did the mopping and who is indentured into one of these many production factories that invaded their land w/o giving them any say in the matter; just so they can make some videos about some pieces of plastic they love… but somehow these videographers are the scum of the earth?

Again, who are we mad at, and why??

Well, I think different people have different issues with PvP, et al. Here are some of them:

- They're stealing, or buying stolen goods.
- They're not admitting to this.
- They've alluded to, stated that, or implied that they're "legitimate" YouTubers and/or they're officially supported by Hasbro, Takara or other related parties.
- They're getting ad revenue and other related perks/money before/at the expense of other reviewers who wait to purchase TFs legitimately.
- (Related to above) Regular fans in, say China, Japan, special events, who might want to enjoy being amongst the first to share pictures of new TFs are "beaten to the finish line" by PvP, who didn't go to the event or who doesn't live in those countries. This could lead to alienating such fans into interacting less with the fandom (Why bother posting any pics when PvP has already done it?)
- They're breaking YouTube's rules regarding sponsored content (or receiving sponsored goods) and not disclosing it in their videos (if they are actually legitimately linked to Hasbro, etc).
- The toys they review might not accurately represent the final retail versions, as the ones in the videos might be test samples, factory rejects, etc (which aren't disclosed as such in the reviews), leading to inaccurate expectations of quality, features or potential problems (which might lead to less people buying them, as they expect them to be faulty, for example).
- They could create FOMO amongst other YouTubers/reviews, which could lead to an increase in buying such stolen toys (by both reviewers and some collectors) which could further eat into Hastak's profits.
- Hasbro has less control over when to inform fans of new toys and thus it lessens the hype for said figures.
- Some people don't like PVP's voice and/or way of presenting his videos (seemingly overly praising potentially stolen figures, while being more critical/negative of regular retail figures).*

I'm sure there are more and some of them are similar to other points. However, it's a bit like the 3P/KO TF scene, but the reviewers and companies behind said products don't usually pose themselves as "legit" TF product reviewers. They 'call a spade a spade'. Also, when 3P or official TF reviewers get test samples, they also usually state this too, which helps us to understand about any possible issues (which the reviewers usually pass back to the companies supplying them).

*This point was added after originally writing this post.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

EDIT: Nevermind, it feels like dog piling at this point.

 

[Galvaplexia]

Well, I think different people have different issues with PvP, et al. Here are some of them:

- They're stealing, or buying stolen goods.
- They're not admitting to this.
- They've alluded to, stated that, or implied that they're "legitimate" YouTubers and/or they're officially supported by Hasbro, Takara or other related parties.
- They're getting ad revenue and other related perks/money before/at the expense of other reviewers who wait to purchase TFs legitimately.
- (Related to above) Regular fans in, say China, Japan, special events, who might want to enjoy being amongst the first to share pictures of new TFs are "beaten to the finish line" by PvP, who didn't go to the event or who doesn't live in those countries. This could lead to alienating such fans into interacting less with the fandom (Why bother posting any pics when PvP has already done it?)
- They're breaking YouTube's rules regarding sponsored content (or receiving sponsored goods) and not disclosing it in their videos (if they are actually legitimately linked to Hasbro, etc).
- The toys they review might not accurately represent the final retail versions, as the ones in the videos might be test samples, factory rejects, etc (which aren't disclosed as such in the reviews), leading to inaccurate expectations of quality, features or potential problems (which might lead to less people buying them, as they expect them to be faulty, for example).
- They could create FOMO amongst other YouTubers/reviews, which could lead to an increase in buying such stolen toys (by both reviewers and some collectors) which could further eat into Hastak's profits.
- Hasbro has less control over when to inform fans of new toys and thus it lessens the hype for said figures.

I'm sure there are more and some of them are similar to other points. However, it's a bit like the 3P/KO TF scene, but the reviewers and companies behind said products don't usually pose themselves as "legit" TF product reviewers. They 'call a spade a spade'. Also, when 3P or official TF reviewers get test samples, they also usually state this too, which helps us to understand about any possible issues (which the reviewers usually pass back to the companies supplying them).

So… yes. We’re upset that they got their toys first.

Earlier samples tend to be riddled with QC issues, so being all busted up about this seems to be a complete waste of emotional energy.

As for the rest - this just feels like we’re moving the goalpost on what we’re supposed to be upset about. Now we’re upset on behalf of other TF content creators which, unless you are one yourself or know one well, again, who the **** cares?

And now we’re upset about a major international conglomerate business’s profits and marketing strategy, and another’s TOS?

Yeah, no. Just… no. Kids are getting slaughtered in Palestine. Trans people are being legislated out of existence. Rising fascism across the planet

On and on and on.

But a multi-billion dollar company could hypothetically loose a couple hundred dollars and some fans and content creators can potentially get butthurt.

 

[Dekafox]

So… yes. We’re upset that they got their toys first.

Earlier samples tend to be riddled with QC issues, so being all busted up about this seems to be a complete waste of emotional energy.

Great point

As for the rest - this just feels like we’re moving the goalpost on what we’re supposed to be upset about. Now we’re upset on behalf of other TF content creators which, unless you are one yourself or know one well, again, who the **** cares?

Decent point, but this question could also be turned around to why complain about his complaining? Unless you're involved or are one of the people he's talking about, why do -you- care? It's coming off as very personal right now, especially given what I'll get into in a moment.

And now we’re upset about a major international conglomerate business’s profits and marketing strategy, and another’s TOS?

Good point here, not necessarily legally, but ethically, from the standpoint of what was supposedly violated, yeah, Hasbro loses control of the timing, but i still generates hype for their product. And even though Hasbro's hurting, this isn't even a pebble in that avalanche.

Yeah, no. Just… no. Kids are getting slaughtered in Palestine. Trans people are being legislated out of existence. Rising fascism across the planet

On and on and on.

But a multi-billion dollar company could hypothetically loose a couple hundred dollars and some fans and content creators can potentially get butthurt.

And this is where it went off the rails. While you are correct about things, this reads very much like "Kids in Etheopia are starving, so you can't complain about losing your job." The scales are not comparable, as you say at the end. But it's also very much a "whataboutism" and irrelevant to this topic. Yes we should care about these things, but it doesn't mean people can't care about other things as well that matter to them, even if they seem irrelevant to us.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Again, if these are test samples or QC rejects then they were ever going to be sold in the first place. In that case, Hasbro isn't losing money from a lost sale. Not a penny. That may be why they haven't clamped down. No one cared what was going to happen to those toys until YouTubers said "I'll buy that."

As far as Hasbro's control over publicity goes, you may have noticed that the Transformers team is increasingly transparent and informal when it comes to marketing, and it's been great. They're honest when they're not able to pull off everything they wanted in a design, or the factory messed something up. Things aren't top secret serious business anymore. It may be annoying when stuff gets leaked before the official reveal, but if the official reveal happens first, these early bird reviews really don't fit badly within the current marketing strategy.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

- Hasbro has less control over when to inform fans of new toys and thus it lessens the hype for said figures.

NGL: As an impartial observer, this plea moves me the least, if only because some product has hit retail shelves before Hasbro has even officially announced it.

 

[Galvaplexia]

Unless you're involved or are one of the people he's talking about, why do -you- care?

And this is where it went off the rails. While you are correct about things, this reads very much like "Kids in Etheopia are starving, so you can't complain about losing your job." The scales are not comparable, as you say at the end. But it's also very much a "whataboutism" and irrelevant to this topic. Yes we should care about these things, but it doesn't mean people can't care about other things as well that matter to them, even if they seem irrelevant to us.

I care and it’s personal to me bc some of y’all seem to be really passionately putting your time and energy into a superfluous issue and using hyperbole to make it seem like the end of the world. I see wasted time and energy and it irks me.

It also irks me that these superfluous issues end up spreading toxicity amongst the fandom, as I don’t want to have to think about what sort of toxicity will randomly be thrown my way bc I happen to screenshot a pretty picture from a TF YTer that I suddenly find out everyone seems to hate for, what I find out at the end of the day, equally superfluous reasons.

And speaking of wasted time. You know what? You’re right. I should put my money where my mouth is. Literally could have been prepping for my runway battle or napping instead of typing any of this. Have “fun” y’all. Imma “unwatch” this.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

So… yes. We’re upset that they got their toys first.

Earlier samples tend to be riddled with QC issues, so being all busted up about this seems to be a complete waste of emotional energy.

As for the rest - this just feels like we’re moving the goalpost on what we’re supposed to be upset about. Now we’re upset on behalf of other TF content creators which, unless you are one yourself or know one well, again, who the **** cares?

And now we’re upset about a major international conglomerate business’s profits and marketing strategy, and another’s TOS?

Yeah, no. Just… no. Kids are getting slaughtered in Palestine. Trans people are being legislated out of existence. Rising fascism across the planet

On and on and on.

But a multi-billion dollar company could hypothetically loose a couple hundred dollars and some fans and content creators can potentially get butthurt.

View attachment 19340

Of course there are more important issues, but then again, we're all here at this site, talking about other issues (be they positive, negative, etc). It's a Transformers site.

The points I posted above weren't meant to cement the issue, but to show some of the views either I, or others had/have about this. Some people might only have one of those thoughts mentioned above and/ot for some they're just minor ones at that. For others, it might be more of an issue for them.

I agree with the point in another post above about posting news before Hasbro though, as I remember ages ago when they hardly ever published info about their toys and when they did, it was full of obtuse marketing gobbledygook. Does anyone remember the early Hasbro reveal videos on YouTube where the marketing team were all "California sunshine smiles and insincere back-slapping" on their "amazing" products?

Like what was said above, the current, informal, "coffee table", low-key styled videos are so much more interesting to watch, as they feel more honest.

Also, for me, the Palestine thing isn't something I want to discuss so much because...

Spoiler

(even though I post links sometimes at the dedicated thread at this site) as I work at an Islamic school and my colleagues are Syrian, Palestinian and Egyptian (with my boss having recently lost his father in Gaza...). For me, even though I've not been directly affected by the conflict, it's not something that's comfortable for me to discuss, so TFs is a good escape from the antisemitism and some of the other negative stuff some of my colleagues and pupils have been displaying for a while.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Again, if these are test samples or QC rejects then they were ever going to be sold in the first place. In that case, Hasbro isn't losing money from a lost sale. Not a penny. That may be why they haven't clamped down. No one cared what was going to happen to those toys until YouTubers said "I'll buy that."

As far as Hasbro's control over publicity goes, you may have noticed that the Transformers team is increasingly transparent and informal when it comes to marketing, and it's been great. They're honest when they're not able to pull off everything they wanted in a design, or the factory messed something up. Things aren't top secret serious business anymore. It may be annoying when stuff gets leaked before the official reveal, but if the official reveal happens first, these early bird reviews really don't fit badly within the current marketing strategy.

I thought they had clamped down, which is partially why they moved their factories from China to Vietnam? Also, I think the issue with them possibly being rejects is that some people might not bother buying the official products because of what they're seen in any reviews that used them? If a toy is either "awful" or "amazing" then why bother to buy it if the final product is thus as bad as the review or somehow isn't as good as the ones in the reviews? People might not know that a potentially rejected figure isn't reflective of the actual product?

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Has there been a single case so far of a toy that was a complete disaster in these leaker reviews but the final product turned out to be fine? One example?

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I thought they had clamped down, which is partially why they moved their factories from China to Vietnam?

That explanation never held water with me before - you don't spend millions, if not tens of millions moving your production facility to another country to prevent a few thousand dollars worth of product loss. Especially given it doesn't seem to have slowed it down in the slightest. In reality, the evolving economic relationship between America and China likely made moving to Vietnam more lucrative in the long run.

That, also, is likely why Hasbro doesn't do anything about the leaks; they're reliant on their partners in Vietnam to keep that stuff in check and those partners either can't or won't deal with it, and like it said before, it's not worth Hasbro spending gobs of money to move facilities to cover for such a monetarily small amount of theft.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Has there been a single case so far of a toy that was a complete disaster in these leaker reviews but the final product turned out to be fine? One example?

I wouldn't know of any via PVP as I don't watch their videos. I remember this same question coming up before and at the time I couldn't think of any but then remembered something about loose joints on a pre-retail version and then reviewers like Peaugh saying there weren't any problems on his retail version?

Regardless, even if no problems have been found so far, I would take any reviews of non-retail figures with a giant pinch of salt.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

I thought loose/tight joints tended to vary from figure to figure.

I mean, I know some become overall looser over time through mold reuse, but as far as first-run goes...