Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Teufel
- Start date
That looks like the only thing her point could have been. She is saying "stop supporting Israel because their temporal, extremely unpopular leader is an asshole." How many countries should secede from the United Nations when Trump wins next year? I understand that it would be satisfying to think that the President and Congress could condition support on Netanyahu's ouster, but that is not how international relations work.
I'm anticipating Bibi's successor to be more of the same. I hope I'm wrong, but I see no reason to assume that he'll be replaced by anyone significantly less hawkish towards the Palestinians.
It looks like it would finally be Benny Gantz, who kept getting blocked by Netanyahu in, I can't even remember how many inconclusive elections they had in the last 6 years.
That poll also shows the Religious Zionism party completely ousted from government, which would take out Bezalel Smotrich, one of the very worst cabinet ministers.
Gantz is not a miracle worker. His stances are towards the center of the Israeli center-right, instead of the far-right. He is reality-based, not messianic, not blatantly warping the country for personal enrichment and legalizing his own crimes. I would happily welcome him as a tremendous improvement.
www.timesofisrael.com
www.i24news.tv
That poll also shows the Religious Zionism party completely ousted from government, which would take out Bezalel Smotrich, one of the very worst cabinet ministers.
Gantz is not a miracle worker. His stances are towards the center of the Israeli center-right, instead of the far-right. He is reality-based, not messianic, not blatantly warping the country for personal enrichment and legalizing his own crimes. I would happily welcome him as a tremendous improvement.
Gantz: We can leverage the Abraham Accords to strengthen the Palestinian Authority
Defense minister says he backs '2-entity solution,' refraining from using the term 'state'; says Israel has participated in 10 multinational military exercises since 2020 deals
www.timesofisrael.com
i24NEWS
www.i24news.tv
Leaders less "hawkish on Palestinians" existed and made multiple peace offers the Palestinian Authority rejected. There could've been a Palestine decades ago, all they had to do was say yes. The Oslo peace era was marked by regular suicide bombings and the Second Intifada was the answer to Ehud Barak's offer to Arafat of a Palestinian state. The unilateral withdrawal of Gaza and dismantling of all Jewish settlements there were rewarded with the Palestinians turning it into Hamastan. Other Israeli leaders will be close to Netanyahu's stance because Palestinian terrorism and intransigence poisoned the idea of land for peace and killed the Israeli left. Not just figuratively, quite literally on October 7th Hamas went into some of the most left-leaning communities in Israel and butchered them.
Benjamin Netanyahu has spent his life opposing a Palestinian state and some of his most effective partners in preventing it have been the Palestinian Authority and Hamas. I'm anticipating the successors to Yasser Arafat, Mahmoud Abbas, Ismail Haniyeh, and Yahya Sinwar to be more of the same.
Benjamin Netanyahu has spent his life opposing a Palestinian state and some of his most effective partners in preventing it have been the Palestinian Authority and Hamas. I'm anticipating the successors to Yasser Arafat, Mahmoud Abbas, Ismail Haniyeh, and Yahya Sinwar to be more of the same.
Those offers, like at Camp David and later, had some big issues. Especially around Jerusalem, borders and the rights of refugees.
It's not like the Palestinian leaders were just being stubborn. They had genuine concerns about whether these deals would really lead to a fair and viable Palestinian state.
Edit: remove this bit as I was inaccurate on historical information.
(FWIW, I don’t think a two-state solution would be a “magic bullet” which would lead to everlasting peace, but it’d be better than the horrifying situation in the Middle East we see before us now.)
(FWIW, I don’t think a two-state solution would be a “magic bullet” which would lead to everlasting peace, but it’d be better than the horrifying situation in the Middle East we see before us now.)
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The offers would have led to SOMETHING BETTER. It was ridiculously short-sighted for the PA to refuse them all.
I'm the most pro-Israel person I know and I recognize that Yasir Arafat's "Plan of Phases" would have worked - sign any agreement and accept any position in order to gain a stronger position for making future demands. Israel would have said "These are final status agreements," the PA would have said "Okay," then after 10 years of building resources and allies as a small actual state, they could have started angrily demanding more. "What do you mean, final status? I never agreed to that. It's not final until our NEW demands are met." Israel would have been left like Ned Stark confronting Cersei Lannister with a piece of paper. A world full of people who believe the most insane made-up shit about Israel would have been happy to disregard a piece of paper with the words "FINAL STATUS" on it.
Arafat didn't have the nerve to follow through on his own idea - he was sure he'd be assassinated for even seeming to go along with concessions to Israel, and maybe he would have. Instead the same 10 years passed, and became 24 years, and they have nothing to show for it. Except for killing a bunch of Jews.
I'm the most pro-Israel person I know and I recognize that Yasir Arafat's "Plan of Phases" would have worked - sign any agreement and accept any position in order to gain a stronger position for making future demands. Israel would have said "These are final status agreements," the PA would have said "Okay," then after 10 years of building resources and allies as a small actual state, they could have started angrily demanding more. "What do you mean, final status? I never agreed to that. It's not final until our NEW demands are met." Israel would have been left like Ned Stark confronting Cersei Lannister with a piece of paper. A world full of people who believe the most insane made-up shit about Israel would have been happy to disregard a piece of paper with the words "FINAL STATUS" on it.
Arafat didn't have the nerve to follow through on his own idea - he was sure he'd be assassinated for even seeming to go along with concessions to Israel, and maybe he would have. Instead the same 10 years passed, and became 24 years, and they have nothing to show for it. Except for killing a bunch of Jews.
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Co-founder and director of CAIR expresses his adoration for October 7th and says that day Gazans walked into their own land and Israel's an occupier not entitled to self-defense.
Worth pointing out even if you think that, the areas of Israel that Hamas ethnically cleansed house to house are within the pre-1967 borders and not disputed or occupied territory by international law. Absolutely deranged stuff from a self-styled civil rights figure.
Worth pointing out even if you think that, the areas of Israel that Hamas ethnically cleansed house to house are within the pre-1967 borders and not disputed or occupied territory by international law. Absolutely deranged stuff from a self-styled civil rights figure.
'We can't stop' - the Israeli woman still helping sick Palestinians
Volunteers used to drive sick Gazans to hospital. Hamas's attack on 7 October changed everything.
www.bbc.com
how HUMANE of us.
I'm ashamed to be British.
Even if it was unanimous... what incentive is there for the terrorist dictatorship to comply?
How dare they not support the resolution to allow Hamas to continue to fire rockets, and facilitate terrorist gunmen attacking civilians without Israel striking back.
My Palestinian boss just lost his father...
Yeah let's just let Israel use White Phsphorus over urban areas some more!
Evidence of Israel's unlawful use of white phosphorus in southern Lebanon as cross-border hostilities escalate
The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanon’s southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023.
www.amnesty.org
Ironbite-that'll show Hamas!
Yeah let's just let Israel use White Phsphorus over urban areas some more!
Evidence of Israel's unlawful use of white phosphorus in southern Lebanon as cross-border hostilities escalate
The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanon’s southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023.
Ironbite-that'll show Hamas!
4 civilians killed, 48 combatants. Sub 10% civilian casualty rates are lower than what is achieved in pretty much any armed conflict. Its actually a lower ratio than is often achieved with targeted drone strikes. While 0 would be nice, 10% would be considered acceptable by pretty much any military in the world.
Yeah let's just let Israel use White Phsphorus over urban areas some more!
Evidence of Israel's unlawful use of white phosphorus in southern Lebanon as cross-border hostilities escalate
The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanon’s southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023.
Ironbite-that'll show Hamas!
Every accusation of Israeli white phosphorus use comes from Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch, both of which have very sketchy and biased histories in this conflict in particular (which should shock exactly zero people who know the dirt on the Salvation Army or Autism Speaks). There has been no independent review or confirmation of this, and every professional media source always says it is "alleged" or "accused".