Is It Just Me, Or Does Beast Wars II/Neo Make Space Look CREEPY?

[Tuxedo Prime]

Much as I appreciate the explanation, I feel like my initial statement might not have been interpreted correctly.

What I meant was, how is having a giant trashed floating planet robot god-thing just floating in space "sealing" it anywhere? We've seen everyone from Cyclonus-pregnant-with-Galvatron's-head to Big Convoy's group come and go from the place freely, while "sealing" something in a place usually implies that they're bound to it or otherwise can't come and go.

I mean, granted, I don't know how they'd move it, but supposing they had a way, what is keeping it bound to the Triple Z Point?

Well, I'll have a go at trying to figure out an answer for you. Keep in mind this is speculation on my part, not derived from any special or secret knowledge, interviews with the writers of the Legends or Selects manga, the Binder of Revelation, or transcripts of an audio drama only broadcast once over shortwave radio. Just me trying to figure things out with what has been established so far in the hopes of the coveted No-Prize!

So, the Balancing Act comic (tying in to Transformers: Cybertron) describes Cybertron as the "Stable axis of the multiverse" (when Universe Ramjet is going on about his idea of having Cybertron fall into the Unicron Singularity in the hopes of destroying the planet in every universe -- and from there annihilating everything). What does that have to do with BW Neo, you ask?
Well, in a similar fashion, in the Classics comics, we learn that Marvel-G1's Unicron explosion in 1991 caused a bunch of splinter timelines, as Unicron's very presence in a universal stream is thought to warp space, time, and causality in interesting ways.

(Case in point, the Grand Black Hole/Unicron singularity in Transformers: Cybertron, which TFWiki once opined could conceivably explain every continuity error in any work....)

Anyway. Toei-G1, as we have seen, tends more towards amalgamating than splintering when stress is put on the Timey Wimey Ball (e.g. incorporating RID(2001)), so if the "Triple Z Point" was at a Lagrange point relative to Cybertron's system, it could be dimensionally stable in a manner that might counter Unicron's destabilizing nature. So if his remains are placed there, they're less likely to slip into another universe* or corrupt causality (which probably already took a beating from the Time Window in 2010 and Megazarak's bombs in Headmasters... I have mentioned that Toei-G1 is a bit of a recursive convoluted beast, yes?)

*=well, at least until that whole Grand Black Hole Business, which ended Universe and presumably also pulled in Unicron-remains from other universes as well....

 

[Sabrblade]

(e.g. incorporating RID(2001))

Oh for Pete's sake. Car Robots was always part of Japanese G1. Nobody in the Western World knew that at the time because no one had access to it in its original language. Nor any access to the other Japanese G1 things that it contained references to (references that were erased/ignored by the English dub). It was never originally a reboot.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Well, I'll have a go at trying to figure out an answer for you. Keep in mind this is speculation on my part, not derived from any special or secret knowledge, interviews with the writers of the Legends or Selects manga, the Binder of Revelation, or transcripts of an audio drama only broadcast once over shortwave radio. Just me trying to figure things out with what has been established so far in the hopes of the coveted No-Prize!

So, the Balancing Act comic (tying in to Transformers: Cybertron) describes Cybertron as the "Stable axis of the multiverse" (when Universe Ramjet is going on about his idea of having Cybertron fall into the Unicron Singularity in the hopes of destroying the planet in every universe -- and from there annihilating everything). What does that have to do with BW Neo, you ask?
Well, in a similar fashion, in the Classics comics, we learn that Marvel-G1's Unicron explosion in 1991 caused a bunch of splinter timelines, as Unicron's very presence in a universal stream is thought to warp space, time, and causality in interesting ways.
View attachment 11437
(Case in point, the Grand Black Hole/Unicron singularity in Transformers: Cybertron, which TFWiki once opined could conceivably explain every continuity error in any work....)

Anyway. Toei-G1, as we have seen, tends more towards amalgamating than splintering when stress is put on the Timey Wimey Ball (e.g. incorporating RID(2001)), so if the "Triple Z Point" was at a Lagrange point relative to Cybertron's system, it could be dimensionally stable in a manner that might counter Unicron's destabilizing nature. So if his remains are placed there, they're less likely to slip into another universe* or corrupt causality (which probably already took a beating from the Time Window in 2010 and Magazarak's bombs in Headmasters... I have mentioned that Toei-G1 is a bit of a recursive convoluted beast, yes?)

*=well, at least until that whole Grand Black Hole Business, which ended Universe and presumably also pulled in Unicron-remains from other universes as well....

I'll take it!

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Oh for Pete's sake.

If my speculation (or more specifically the CR v. RID(2001) part of it) annoys you, please take it up with Vector Prime. From the AVP portion of the "G1 World" entry at TfWiki:
"Primax 785.06 Alpha was the foundational reality of a varied network of overlapping, intertwining universal streams. When the Cybertron/Primus of branching reality Primax 787.3 Alpha was destroyed, thereby destabilizing that universe's axis, fourth-dimensional shockwaves rippled across time and space, pulling other universal streams into alignment with the source universe, and/or duplicating fractals of spacetime from other dimensions within the foundational reality stream. The result was that Primax 785.06 Alpha became the seat of a convoluted, conglomerate timeline that even contained multiple contradictory accounts of certain events within its quantum structure. Dimensional observer Vector Prime speculated that some of this could even have come about as the result of higher-dimensional being(s) attempting to actively fix the damage using pieces of other universes."

Car Robots was always part of Japanese G1. Nobody in the Western World knew that at the time because no one had access to it in its original language. Nor any access to the other Japanese G1 things that it contained references to (references that were erased/ignored by the English dub).

Not to say you're a Sith, but "no one" is quite the absolute considering that Doug Dlin, Hydra Darkwings and Juniper Walters were all active to some degree or other in the online fandom at the time of Car Robots' original release. In fact if memory serves Doug was our source of the CR character bios, which became of some importance as the Spychangers never got any in their US release....

(I was, once, actually there...before the dark times. Before Kiss Players....)

....Leaving that aside, have you any reason why the "Triple Z Point" couldn't be both close to Cybertron and keeping Unicron's remains "safe" for reasons of multiversal stability?

 

[Sabrblade]

If my speculation (or more specifically the CR v. RID(2001) part of it) annoys you, please take it up with Vector Prime. From the AVP portion of the "G1 World" entry at TfWiki:

That AVP entry was written at a time before the whole story was known, based on outdated conceptions that wouldn't be cleared up until after Fun Pub's tenure as a licensee had expired. Jim Sorenson (the guy who wrote AVP) has even gone on record of saying that we shouldn't take everything written for AVP so seriously.

And this wasn't an isolated incident. There were lots of cases of AVP being written based on misunderstood info. A big thing that AVP got wrong was its depiction of things from Transformers Cloud. That series wasn't translated until just over a year ago, in which it was revealed that AVP was completely off the mark in its understandings of Cloud at the time. And then there's the whole Sideways fiasco.

Because of all this, every AVP answer that talks about stuff from Japan needs to be gone over with a fine-toothed comb and fact-checked to determine its validity.

Not to say you're a Sith, but "no one" is quite the absolute considering that Doug Dlin, Hydra Darkwings and Juniper Walters were all active to some degree or other in the online fandom at the time of Car Robots' original release. In fact if memory serves Doug was our source of the CR character bios, which became of some importance as the Spychangers never got any in their US release....

And yet, none of them at the time managed to help the fandom recognize all the references in Car Robots that were meant to connect it to what all came before. Instead, their voices were drowned out by the much louder voice of the rewritten English dub of Robots n Disguise airing on TV in the Western World, brainwashing the entire fandom's understanding of Car Robots as being just as much of a reboot as the English version, when it never actually was.

What Saban, Fox, and Hasbro did to Car Robots was basically like if they had taken Transformers: Victory, dubbed it into English, renamed Star Saber as "Optimus Prime", renamed Deathsaurus as "Megatron", gave all the other characters different names mixing existing names from G1 with some brand new names, and had all the episode scripts rewritten to disconnect it from everything it was originally related to.

....Leaving that aside, have you any reason why the "Triple Z Point" couldn't be both close to Cybertron and keeping Unicron's remains "safe" for reasons of multiversal stability?

Well, considering that Japanese Unicron in Beast Wars Neo was a completely mortal individual who was explicitly not a god or any kind of cosmic deity (since his goal in that show was to become one, and which he ultimately failed to do), which is also something the western fandom had no knowledge of at the time, I'd say the multiverse had no danger of instability to worry about from that particular Unicron.

 

[NovaSaber]

If my speculation (or more specifically the CR v. RID(2001) part of it) annoys you, please take it up with Vector Prime. From the AVP portion of the "G1 World" entry at TfWiki:
"Primax 785.06 Alpha was the foundational reality of a varied network of overlapping, intertwining universal streams. When the Cybertron/Primus of branching reality Primax 787.3 Alpha was destroyed, thereby destabilizing that universe's axis, fourth-dimensional shockwaves rippled across time and space, pulling other universal streams into alignment with the source universe, and/or duplicating fractals of spacetime from other dimensions within the foundational reality stream. The result was that Primax 785.06 Alpha became the seat of a convoluted, conglomerate timeline that even contained multiple contradictory accounts of certain events within its quantum structure. Dimensional observer Vector Prime speculated that some of this could even have come about as the result of higher-dimensional being(s) attempting to actively fix the damage using pieces of other universes."

I think some that is additional interpolation on top of the already-making-stuff-up AVP answers it's based on.

Here are the actual AVP quotes

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Source:Ask_Vector_Prime/Facebook#June_22.2C_2015

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

What universe contains the timeline shown here: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_(Japan)
.
.
A: Dear Jarring Japanophile,

There is no one stream that contains all of what is listed, but a vast network of tributaries and distributaries weaving in and out, to forge something approximating a vast, twisting, winding river.

This makes very little sense without also saying the same thing about every other continuity that contains time travel and/or cross-dimensional travel.

"Universal streams" not being the same as "universes" was a weird idea that AVP kept hinting at without ever explaining the exact distinction or why it would make any sense to be always talking about the former instead of the latter in a non-technical context...and this question specifically said "universe" without the word "stream".

The "source" of the river would be Primax 785.06 Alpha. This seems the foundational reality, though dozens more dip in or split off from there.

I cannot even guess what the supposed justification for "dozens" is.
Also, what was "split off" is irrelevant to the question (unless post-split events from more than one branch were in the timeline, which they aren't), and there are very few things that anyone could reasonably even think was "dipped in".

Interestingly, there seem to be two more, slightly competing streams that wend their way through the entirety of the reality system; Primax 1206.0 Beta and Primax 807.11 Zeta.

The idea that the publication of a timeline marks the starting point of a stream only highlights that "streams" so far from being synonymous with either "universe" or "continuity" that they shouldn't even be part of this answer.

It almost seems as if some extra-dimensional being or beings attempted to impose order on a system shattered by MegaZarak's destruction of the stable axis of this reality; perhaps The Source or the Chronarchitect or the Alternity or even the Swarm or an evolved Humanity tried to pick up the broken pieces of these timestreams and haphazardly glue them together.

There was no "shattering".
Nor do the timelines look "haphazard" in any way; the one small contradiction between them is also among the few contradictions either has with anything else that came before them.

AVP is making it sound like there was some DC Crisis-level cosmic retcon nonsense, and that's just not true.
Even among Transformers, Aligned is way more of a mess than JG1; WfC and Exodus being part of "one continuity" is as bad as it would be if the main JG1 continuity included the Masterforce manga, which it notably doesn't.

While the Transformers timeline with the most branching is of course the Marvel one:

AVP's answer only makes sense if it was written by someone who (erroneously!!) thought Japanese G1 continuity looked something like that and then got a timeline that had events from every branch all jumbled together.


https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Source:Ask_Vector_Prime/Facebook#July_19.2C_2015

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Would the death of a universal stream's Primus be guaranteed to destabilize the spacetime of the universal stream?
.
.
A: The death of any deity is virtually guaranteed to send shockwaves rippling forwards and backwards through the quantum foam underpinning that reality. Witness the impact on timestreams near what you might refer to as Primax 787.3 Alpha. An omniversal reality was pulled into quantum-string vibrational alignment with their reality, allowing the people of the distant reality of Planet Sandra to make contact.
reality of Planet Sandra to make contact.

The idea of Planet Sandra being from outside the Transformers multiverse is of course another thing AVP just baselessly and unnecessarily made up.

Beings especially attenuated to the lifestream matrices of Vector Sigma, such as Godmessenger and Godmaster, acquire multiple conflicting histories and futures

Or Devil Z lied and one of the timelines mistakenly included a lie instead of the actual events.

Or some fanwanky combination of the two stories where Godmessenger stole the transtectors to make them into Godmaster, but failed and turned into Devil Z.

AVP itself is the only thing that made the conflicting versions of this origin completely impossible to reconcile.

Other streams that might otherwise be unrelated are pulled into probability vortex left by Cybertron's absence, their string vibrational eigenstates orienting to create one massive unified timeline where before there were many. Dimensional fragments from other clusters were duplicated wholecloth in this OG Reality, with completely different fermion modality, creating entirely new dimensional streams identical but for cosmetic details!



Q: Does this explain the Car Robots timeline becoming a Primax stream? Ask Vector Prime Did you not find it odd how the same events occurred in both a Viron and a Primax stream?

But Viron is the anomaly, a whole cluster created by a language alteration.

If anything the timey-wimey meta explanation should have been about how the reformatting of Cybertron shunted a possible future for that stream into Axiom Nexus, and then duplicated part of a different Primax stream into a Viron one as if that somehow filled the void.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Well, considering that Japanese Unicron in Beast Wars Neo was a completely mortal individual who was explicitly not a god or any kind of cosmic deity (since his goal in that show was to become one, and which he ultimately failed to do), which is also something the western fandom had no knowledge of at the time, I'd say the multiverse had no danger of instability to worry about from that particular Unicron.

Now that is a counterpoint I can appreciate, especially post-Shroudening (which did away with singularity-characters), where now we have some universes with a benevolent Unicron (Fun Pub Shattered Glass), some universes with a not-(yet)-a-god Unicron (BW Neo, apparently) and some with no Unicron at all (Of Masters and Mayhem). It's not *exactly* clear if theses changes from the original are doubly retroactive for continuities that predate both Universe(2003) and the Shroud Event, or for that matter what happens re: Universe (2003) and Cybertron, which were predicated on the Pre-Shroud model. But, I'm not the Transtech (who, it must often be said, are better than us).

Anyway, Nytetrayn seemed happy enough with my attempt at an explanation, even if it isn't quite No-Prize worthy....

 

[Sabrblade]

Now that is a counterpoint I can appreciate, especially post-Shroudening (which did away with singularity-characters), where now we have some universes with a benevolent Unicron (Fun Pub Shattered Glass), some universes with a not-(yet)-a-god Unicron (BW Neo, apparently) and some with no Unicron at all (Of Masters and Mayhem).

Yeah, Japanese Unicron always stuck true to the "big robot dude built by a monkey scientist" origin, just with the added wrinkle of Angolmois Energy thrown in (which was a retcon unto itself since that energy originally wasn't associated with Unicron at all). But with the advent of recent media declaring that energy to have actually been Primus's divine energy all along, that does raise a few points in favor of Japanese Unicron, while still not truly a god, at least possessing some god-like qualities. Basically a mortal with corrupted powers of divine origin, which I guess would at least qualify him as a "demigod" at most.

But on the other hand, Japanese Primus's own divinity is a bit of a gray area when, at the end of his origin story, it was revealed that he was just a lowly (very lowly) energy being merely given divine powers (the Golden Power, specifically) by the actual deity who stands above him, The One. In essence, I guess this would make Japanese Primus merely a demigod, too, but one who is revered as a god by the Transformers.

Backing up to the whole bit about Scorponok blowing up Cybertron in The Headmasters, the Unite Warriors manga showed that, despite taking the blast of Scorponok's bombs at pointblank range, Vector Sigma somehow survived the explosion, albeit in a very damaged and wounded state. Unite Warriors also took the opportunity to use this destruction of Cybertron to not only show the planet's reconstruction over the next ten years, but to also explain how the Vector Sigma of the G1 and Headmasters cartoons went on to become the Oracle of the Beast Machines cartoon, by having the reconstruction of Cybertron also lead to the reconstruction of Vector Sigma as the Oracle, albeit with the Vector Sigma Core seen inside the Oracle now resembling the unreleased transforming Vector Sigma toy that would have come as an accessory to the unreleased Japanese Generations Alpha Trion toy, and which was first seen in the "Train Wars" manga story set around 2035.

Also, Ask Vector Prime saying "MegaZarak" blew Cybertron was incorrect. That form was not acquired by Scorponok until five episodes later. "MegaZarak" didn't exist yet.

 

[NovaSaber]

Now that is a counterpoint I can appreciate, especially post-Shroudening (which did away with singularity-characters), where now we have some universes with a benevolent Unicron (Fun Pub Shattered Glass), some universes with a not-(yet)-a-god Unicron (BW Neo, apparently) and some with no Unicron at all (Of Masters and Mayhem). It's not *exactly* clear if theses changes from the original are doubly retroactive for continuities that predate both Universe(2003) and the Shroud Event, or for that matter what happens re: Universe (2003) and Cybertron, which were predicated on the Pre-Shroud model.

Even some pre-Shroud AVP answers were saying G1 cartoon Unicron wasn't part of the multiversal singularity.
(Which raises the question of how much the singularities ever meant, if the concept never even applied to the first version of the first character to be called one.)

 

[Sabrblade]

Thinking more about it after all this cosmic talk, I think I may have figured out a possible answer to the following inquiry:

What I meant was, how is having a giant trashed floating planet robot god-thing just floating in space "sealing" it anywhere? We've seen everyone from Cyclonus-pregnant-with-Galvatron's-head to Big Convoy's group come and go from the place freely, while "sealing" something in a place usually implies that they're bound to it or otherwise can't come and go.

I mean, granted, I don't know how they'd move it, but supposing they had a way, what is keeping it bound to the Triple Z Point?

The sealing of Unicron's remains was depicted like this:

As shown, the sealing was performed by Primus himself, whose power is righteous Angolmois Energy, the counterforce of Unicron's evil Angolmois Energy. As seen in Beast Wars II, the two opposing energies cancel each other out, so Primus's good energy would cancel out Unicron's evil energy, rendering his remains lifeless and inert. And with Primus's power appearing to overwhelm that of Unicron, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that, with it also being clear that it was Primus's intention of confining Unicron's remains to the Triple Z Point, that Primus's own willpower is what keeps Unicron's inert remains in place and immovable from the Triple Z Point.

Al except for Unicron's head, apparently, since it seems to have remained conscious and empowered (to an extent) by the year 2021, based what all went down in the Unite Warriors manga. This is not without some precedent, since even during G1 Season 3 was his head still somewhat alive in episodes it appeared in, able to be reactivated whenever the plot called for it. So perhaps his head can still wake up even while within the Triple Z Point, but is otherwise still unable to move on its own, lacking any kind of self-propelled mobility. But by the time of Beast Wars Neo, even his head seems to have finally become as dead and inert as the rest of his remains.

As for why Primus couldn't repel Unicron's attack on Cybertron on his own in Unite Warriors and simply force Unicron's head back to the Triple Z Point without outside help from the Autobots and Decepticons, Cybertron being destroyed in The Headmasters did see Vector Sigma/Primus/Oracle left in a damaged state, so he was probably at his most weakened state in the decade following. Heck, he couldn't even resurrect Optimus Prime for more than one week, and couldn't revive him again after that, since Prime's multiple prior deaths exceeded the limit of Primus's power to keep him fully revived, so Primus/Vector Sigma/Oracle really must have become a lot weaker during that time.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

A few points:

"Universal streams" not being the same as "universes" was a weird idea that AVP kept hinting at without ever explaining the exact distinction or why it would make any sense to be always talking about the former instead of the latter in a non-technical context...and this question specifically said "universe" without the word "stream".

I won't claim to have been close to the discussions that created all this, but I think that that was M Sipher's idea. I recall he pushed hardest for each medium and series to be its own designation -- I think it was to do with "flexibility of sequels", as exemplified by your Marvel chart above -- Primax 984.0 Gamma is the Marvel G1 stream, but it could go to "Another Time and Place", or G2, or Regeneration One, or Classics, all of which have their own stream. So, with Toei-G1, while the series are all linked, they aren't all Super Robot Life Form Transformer (The first two seasons of the Sunbow Cartoon only everyone speaks Japanese). So, in the days before the Grand Harmonized Document(s) Packaged with Kiss Players Material, it was likely decided to give each series its own stream code, in case branch timelines did show up. (Ironically, one would, but from an alternate ending of "The Burden Hardest to Bear".)

There was no "shattering".
Nor do the timelines look "haphazard" in any way; the one small contradiction between them is also among the few contradictions either has with anything else that came before them.

AVP is making it sound like there was some DC Crisis-level cosmic retcon nonsense, and that's just not true.

Ah, I think I see what's going on here....
Yes, in 1987, in Headmasters, there was a big boom, but the universe wasn't broken by it. It was not until 2000s American TF fiction, most notably Universe, the Dreamwave Armada 4-parter "Worlds Collide" and Cybertron; that the concept of "Destroy Cybertron and the rest of the universe must follow" became established -- and yet since that didn't happen (and Headmasters would run to completion and spawn a sequel show), an explanation was needed.

Now they could have gone with "Unicron needs to kill the local Primus-avatar to end a universe" (as in "Worlds Collide"), but instead they had the idea of "Cybertron, stable axis of the multiverse, was destroyed here, yet that universe carried on and eventually the planet got better. How did that happen?"

From the Japanese perspective, no Crisis Event was needed. This is what happens, I guess, when a multimedia franchise is shared between two languages and cultures. They wrote the story, we created the need for that story to make sense within our own framework of the franchise rules that we set up years later.

Lapsing into more Obi-Wan speak, it seems that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view....

But Viron is the anomaly, a whole cluster created by a language alteration.

And for whatever it's worth, I didn't think that a whole new cluster was needed for RID (2001). Sure, Primax is quite overloaded with continuities, but just make it "The Primax where a lot of characters sound like nitrous-sucking goofballs", and that would have been a day for me.

Alas, I wasn't anywhere near the decision-making process when the Universal Stream System was composed. Though I think I've put it to some good use....

 

[Sabrblade]

So, in the days before the Grand Harmonized Document(s) Packaged with Kiss Players Material, it was likely decided to give each series its own stream code, in case branch timelines did show up.

Just one thing. The stream system debuted in 2008. The two Kiss Players timelines were published in 2006 and 2007, respectively (with the TFWiki article that first introduced the combined timeline to us English-speakers debuting in October 2007).

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Just one thing. The stream system debuted in 2008. The two Kiss Players timelines were published in 2006 and 2007, respectively (with the TFWiki article that first introduced the combined timeline to us English-speakers debuting in October 2007).

...and I was recently rereading the commentary regarding how to parse "Autorooper" from around that same time too.

We'd probably have to ask Sorensen, Sipher and Troop just how long they were at work on their Transtech Multiversal Classification scheme -- the anglophonic fandom was looking for one as early as Universe (2003) (may contain characters from any continuity), and the Wiki was grouping continuity families from its inception back on Wikia, though the Transtechy in-multiverse names came quite a bit later.

As to the rest, to be honest I'm probably always going to look upon Toei-G1 as a brain-breaking beast of a timeline, in no small part because (and this should be no secret considering how I've placed the image below whenever KP gets a mention on this board) I view the "Atari timeline" manual to same as part of a Keter-scale cognitohazard lurking within our favourite media ...if Chris McFeely's comments at TFWiki and Youtube have been anything to go by, I don't think I'm the only one.

(...Natsuki, why did you give Sayori the Kiss Players manga? For that matter why did you have the Kiss Players manga?!)

(I mean, a manga derived from a C8-rated cartoon is somehow more dread- and squick-inducing than a psychological horror game where The Fourth Wall Does Not Protect You? Quadwal (1.38e10.0) Theta is a weird universe as well....)

 

[Sabrblade]

Well, if we're talking over-complicated timelines, there's always this monstrosity that I had to piece together myself (since no one else would): The Beast Wars expanded universe timeline as created by 3H and Fun Pub.

 

[NovaSaber]

Now they could have gone with "Unicron needs to kill the local Primus-avatar to end a universe" (as in "Worlds Collide"), but instead they had the idea of "Cybertron, stable axis of the multiverse, was destroyed here, yet that universe carried on and eventually the planet got better. How did that happen?"

From the Japanese perspective, no Crisis Event was needed. This is what happens, I guess, when a multimedia franchise is shared between two languages and cultures. They wrote the story, we created the need for that story to make sense within our own framework of the franchise rules that we set up years later.

That's not how that answer came about, though. That "problem" was itself part of the answer, not part of the question being answered.

My point is that the alleged results of fixing this unseen crisis don't exist, and AVP's inaccurate description of the official timeline as containing them means that Vector Prime's speculation is clearly incorrect.
(And it is speculation, qualified with words like "seems" and "perhaps". Even from an in-universe perspective, Vector Prime explicitly didn't even claim to actually know this.)

...and I was recently rereading the commentary regarding how to parse "Autorooper" from around that same time too.

It's officially Autorooper but should be Autrooper. Dropping the "o" from "auto" preserves the "portmanteau of 'auto' and 'trooper'" intent far better than dropping the "t" from "trooper".

As to the rest, to be honest I'm probably always going to look upon Toei-G1 as a brain-breaking beast of a timeline, in no small part because (and this should be no secret considering how I've placed the image below whenever KP gets a mention on this board) I view the "Atari timeline" manual to same as part of a Keter-scale cognitohazard lurking within our favourite media ...if Chris McFeely's comments at TFWiki and Youtube have been anything to go by, I don't think I'm the only one.

Saying that Kiss Players had anything to do with the fact that Car Robots has been part of the JG1 timeline from the very beginning (or with most of the other things the KP timeline said about anything besides KP), just because most western fans didn't realize it before the timeline, doesn't even make sense.

Kiss Players itself has prompted many baffled reactions, but most of them are either:
1. Why is it (especially the manga) so gross/sexual/horror/weird?
2. Also, a foreign-language (I know it got fansubbed, but most discussion I recall is from before it did.) radio drama that's not in chronological order is hard to follow.

Not about its place in or effect on larger continuity.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Well, if we're talking over-complicated timelines, there's always this monstrosity that I had to piece together myself (since no one else would): The Beast Wars expanded universe timeline as created by 3H and Fun Pub.

It looks good. Thanks for doing that.
I don't contribute to the Wiki as much as I might, as I've mentioned before. Edits are all part of the process, of course, but when one's material gets frequently auto-reverted, it can make one shy to put things down. Not bitter, though. Perhaps I should find some quiet portion that is similarly untended....

 

[Sabrblade]

I don't contribute to the Wiki as much as I might, as I've mentioned before. Edits are all part of the process, of course, but when one's material gets frequently auto-reverted, it can make one shy to put things down. Not bitter, though. Perhaps I should find some quiet portion that is similarly untended....

Joining the wiki's Discord server (a link to which can be found on the wiki's main page) would get you in direct contact with some of our most active users, who are friendly and willing to help new users figure out where and how to get started.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

That's not how that answer came about, though. That "problem" was itself part of the answer, not part of the question being answered.

We may be talking past each other a bit, but the "problem", as you call it, was not so much part of the answer per se as it was an initial assumption used before crafting the answer -- but that assumption was using the creation of American comics writers long after the facts of the case, and not at all in mind of the scriptwriters of the Headmasters cartoon in Japan in 1987. So the conditions for Vector Prime's answer only "exist" because we in North American fandom (and pro-writing) needed them to.

It's officially Autorooper but should be Autrooper. Dropping the "o" from "auto" preserves the "portmanteau of 'auto' and 'trooper'" intent far better than dropping the "t" from "trooper".

One would think so, but Japanese has different rules in that regard. Basically the "to" in trooper (toruupaa) gets merged into the "to" in "auto". Separate consonants don't even exist (aside from final -n). Although "Autrooper" does make for English Spelling Better, the Japanese pronunciation would be no different than "Autorooper" anyway.

Saying that Kiss Players had anything to do with the fact that Car Robots has been part of the JG1 timeline from the very beginning (or with most of the other things the KP timeline said about anything besides KP), just because most western fans didn't realize it before the timeline, doesn't even make sense.

To be blunt and opinionated, nothing about Kiss Players makes sense. That's kind of why I referred to it as a "cognitohazard".
From Wiktionary: "An image, pattern, sound or any other kind of sensory signal that directly causes harmful or undesired physiological effects to one who senses or perceives it."

Kiss Players itself has prompted many baffled reactions, but most of them are either:
1. Why is it (especially the manga) so gross/sexual/horror/weird?
2. Also, a foreign-language (I know it got fansubbed, but most discussion I recall is from before it did.) radio drama that's not in chronological order is hard to follow.

Not about its place in or effect on larger continuity.

And as I keep saying, when Doki Doki Literature Club! (which has teen suicide, implied self harm, and a solipsistic, Reality Warping AI) is a more wholesome media product than a manga tying into a C8-rated cartoon, with characters that are SUPPOSED to be old enough to drive.... Yeah, I think I'm in category 1.

Although I have sometimes wondered if some of the effects might spread across time, like a busted Time Window....

 

[NovaSaber]

To be blunt and opinionated, nothing about Kiss Players makes sense. That's kind of why I referred to it as a "cognitohazard".

Which does not contradict my point that things "the KP timelines" mentioned but did not originate should not even count as being "about Kiss Players".