Takara Missing Link G1 Series

CoffeeHorse

Hanging in there
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I'm fully aware I'm being unreasonable, but I'm not that unreasonable. I wish we could all have an Ironhide that makes us happy. I just think those who wouldn't have been interested in a fully toy based Missing Link Ironhide would stand a decent chance of being satisfied by some other Ironhide in the not too distant future, but I do not believe those of us who are disappointed by this have the same or even a similar chance of being satisfied any time in the foreseeable future. It's not the same waiting game for one side or the other.

That is where the resentment comes from.
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
I have a roommate that is a casual TF fan; he's not a G1er as he likes many other series but he likes Missing Link because its the toys he grew up with, but with modern articulation. Last night After seeing ML Ironhide on BBTS he asked me, knowing I'm a much bigger fan "How much would it cost to just find a complete G1 Ironhide?" So yeah, the fact this doesn't look much like the original diaclone toy is a no-sell for him.

I'm honestly kinda curious what the Japanese fans think of this, becuase it seems to be the most divisive toy either side has made in a LONG time.
 

Princess Viola

Dumbass Asexual
Citizen
What a weird crash-out.
 

Blot

Well-known member
Citizen
I'm honestly kinda curious what the Japanese fans think of this, becuase it seems to be the most divisive toy either side has made in a LONG time.
I honestly wonder if we were instead looking at some "what if" Missing Link Skyfire that avoided all the legal limbo that Bandai and Harmony Gold would bring, would we be having this same level of discourse. Or would that have been the toy that made everyone collectively say "well of course Missing Link isn't going to just be about making the original toys with new joints, even if I wish it had been so". Or something.

(Of course I know there'd be discourse over that too. We're Transformers fans, there's always discourse.)
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
We're Transformers fans, there's always discourse.
The problem is that we've reached a point where subjective opinions aren't enough. If I say "I like X, it just tickles my fancy" that can't be good enough because it's an opinion. It leaves the possibility that someone else could not like it and be valid and we've become so wrapped up in tribalism that this is unacceptable.

So now we have to dress our opinions up. I can't just like Missing Link Ironhide because I think it looks cool, I have to make up bs about it somehow being in line with other ML releases even though it's not. Because I have to "prove" my opinion is "correct."

Likewise I can't say "I don't like it, it's not for me," I need to paint this as a betrayal of the line.

No one's allowed to just like or dislike things thanks to subjective personal taste anymore. Everyone needs to paint their opinions as FACT because it lets them call anyone who doesn't share their opinions WRONG.

And that's far more satisfying than just going "agree to disagree."
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
I honestly wonder if we were instead looking at some "what if" Missing Link Skyfire that avoided all the legal limbo that Bandai and Harmony Gold would bring, would we be having this same level of discourse. Or would that have been the toy that made everyone collectively say "well of course Missing Link isn't going to just be about making the original toys with new joints, even if I wish it had been so". Or something.

(Of course I know there'd be discourse over that too. We're Transformers fans, there's always discourse.)

I dont think we'd see a Skyfire, since he's not diaclone and so far we've not even seen Microman figures. I think the other Diaclone mold that would get this kinda reaction would be the Seekers, while not as bad as Ironhide, I still think they'd need to change/re-engineer alot to make work.
 

CoffeeHorse

Hanging in there
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Why is it always Ironhide?

It's Masterpiece Ironhide all over again, sorta. Instead of going from a fully toy style to an attempted blended style, in that case they went from a blended style to an attempted fully toon style. And the same thing happened. It doesn't do one thing convincingly enough. Aside from the weird hip kibble issue, the proportions are just all wrong everywhere you look. This isn't Diaclone. That wasn't toon. Everywhere you look something throws it off. The line was changing its aims, Ironhide was a taste of what the line was trying to become, but they just hadn't nailed the new thing yet.

And then Ratchet comes along and wears the mold better.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Why is it always Ironhide?

It's Masterpiece Ironhide all over again, sorta. Instead of going from a fully toy style to an attempted blended style, in that case they went from a blended style to an attempted fully toon style. And the same thing happened. It doesn't do one thing convincingly enough. Aside from the weird hip kibble issue, the proportions are just all wrong everywhere you look. This isn't Diaclone. That wasn't toon. Everywhere you look something throws it off. The line was changing its aims, Ironhide was a taste of what the line was trying to become, but they just hadn't nailed the new thing yet.

And then Ratchet comes along and wears the mold better.
Ironhide seems cursed. I liked ER Ironhide enough, but a lot of people hated it and SS '86 seemed to finally land on a version that people were mostly happy with but it took 40 G-ddamn years.

I do agree with you though, I was really digging MPs until Ironhide came out and they went full Sunbow. Funnily enough I was really digging CHUG until it went full Sunbow. Never go full Sunbow. Those designs and flat stylings weren't made to exist in three dimensions.

ANYWAY yeah, I agree with you. Again, I'll defend the idea here. A figure that can change from a Diaclone Ironhide robot mode to something that looks like what every kid wanted their Ironhide toy to look like is a good idea. They just chose to emphasize the wrong part of that equation here. It's very unfortunate, because yeah. Those who wanted a Diaclone Ironhide probably won't be catered to again.

If I can offer any solace, it's that Ironhide and Ratchet were always weird entries in the Transformers line, even back in the 80s. I don't think this is indicative of ML going more Sunbow. I think these two are just very unique cases. I expect the next figure in ML (Soundwave if the rumours are to be believed) to just be the G1 toy with modern articulation.
 

Blot

Well-known member
Citizen
If I can offer any solace, it's that Ironhide and Ratchet were always weird entries in the Transformers line, even back in the 80s. I don't think this is indicative of ML going more Sunbow. I think these two are just very unique cases. I expect the next figure in ML (Soundwave if the rumours are to be believed) to just be the G1 toy with modern articulation.
Especially for Japan, because despite being Takara molds the vanettes were borderline omitted from their version of the toyline. Ratchet was a mailaway exclusive in 1986 and Ironhide never got a release at all until they had their reissue line in 2001.
 

NovaSaber

Well-known member
Citizen
I dont think we'd see a Skyfire, since he's not diaclone and so far we've not even seen Microman figures. I think the other Diaclone mold that would get this kinda reaction would be the Seekers, while not as bad as Ironhide, I still think they'd need to change/re-engineer alot to make work.
We have seen Microman figures; Bumblebee and Cliffjumper.
And of course the Arcee prototype was designed to be a Transformer from the start.

Aside from the Diaclone-based ones coming with drivers which the G1 toys didn't, there's nothing about Missing Link as a whole that is any more Diaclone than the G1 toyline itself.
 

CrockAlley

Well-known member
Citizen
I have to believe that this Ironhide/Ratchet situation is a one-off, because of the unusual nature of the G1 toys. But here's my completely subjective, possibly inflammatory opinion: I'm sick to death of Sunbow infecting every god damn line. I think most of the designs are ugly, and it's morally wrong to try to recreate them in toy form. 😆 It's so disheartening to see it seeping into Missing Link. "...what could have been..." Hey, guess what? There was a G1 Ironhide toy!! And it's fun! And I own one. And I'm going to play with it now instead of looking at pictures of Missing Link's Sunbow Ironhide.
 

CoffeeHorse

Hanging in there
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Well, if everyone had simply bought Energon Ironhide back when he was first released...

I don't hate that design. The sound box is stupid. It's a fair contender to be Exhibit A for "UT critics had a fair point about the gimmicks sometimes." But other than that highly conspicuous flaw, I see the potential. The shirt and pants modes actually look pretty good.
 

G.B.Blackrock

Well-known member
Citizen
Why is it always Ironhide?

It's Masterpiece Ironhide all over again, sorta. Instead of going from a fully toy style to an attempted blended style, in that case they went from a blended style to an attempted fully toon style. And the same thing happened. It doesn't do one thing convincingly enough. Aside from the weird hip kibble issue, the proportions are just all wrong everywhere you look. This isn't Diaclone. That wasn't toon. Everywhere you look something throws it off. The line was changing its aims, Ironhide was a taste of what the line was trying to become, but they just hadn't nailed the new thing yet.

And then Ratchet comes along and wears the mold better.
Well, Ratchet was always more interesting than Ironhide.... ;)

(No, I'm not getting ML Ratchet, either.)



(what follows is not a comment on the above... just me taking the opportunity to air some thoughts)

I've mostly tried to stay quiet, since there's already enough (very legitimate!) concern that some of us are just repeating ourselves and that the thread is stuck in a cycle of negativity. To the extent I've said my piece already, I'll try to leave it at that.

That said, I see ML as taking figures that look exactly like already existing figures or concepts from the 80s, simply doing those designs up with better articulation. So, sure, give us protoypes! Either one of those 80s-era Unicron toys would work fine! But the toy should still look like the original one did when not posed in ways the original could never have accomplished. Otherwise, I might as well be buying a modern toy that isn't attempting to emulate the 80s one. We've got lots of lines for those already.

And all this attention given to designing ML Ironhide... it's probably too much to say "it took up a slot," per se, but it has been time and effort that wasn't given to some other concept. Would that "other concept" have been a different ML toy? (Let's assume ML Ironhide simply was never going to be possible to fit the parameters I've suggested... so ML Prowl, perhaps. It could be literally anything) No way to know what the "other concept" would have been, but something hasn't been worked on that those designers would have been doing as part of their jobs instead if they weren't working on this. Maybe we don't have sufficient language for this concept, but if "slot" is too reductionistic, what should we say instead?

One final comment, for now. I don't use the numbers of over a dozen figures in my version of the claim that some others have done to cite ML precedent. After all, most of the ML toys to-date have been redecos of previous ML molds, often done in colors and/or as characters that didn't exist in the 80s. "Anime" variations and such. When these simply use the molds (or slight remolds... for example, anime ML Arcee vs. prototype ML Arcee), I consider it that the original concept is still at play, but it still only counts as "one" ML mold. I don't count the Arcees as two separate examples. So, we have Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Cliffjumper (one could argue these two are remolds of each other, but that's not how we've historically treated them), Sunsteaker, Arcee, Ultra Magnus, and Grimlock. That's just 7 (with Ironhide being the 8th). Citing double-digit figures to make any point against ML ironhide seems, to me, a bit disingenuous. I'll try to avoid that, myself.
 


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