Star Trek General Discussion

[The Predaking]

The Begotten is a hard hitting episode. However, Odo getting his abilities back isn't just random. His sentence as a solid was over, which always led me to believe that the baby changling not surviving wasn't due to lack of care, but that it wasn't a baby at all, but part of Odo that the Great Link removed.


Kasidy is awesome, and expect to see more of her.

 

[Copper Bezel]

The Begotten is a hard hitting episode. However, Odo getting his abilities back isn't just random. His sentence as a solid was over, which always led me to believe that the baby changling not surviving wasn't due to lack of care, but that it wasn't a baby at all, but part of Odo that the Great Link removed.

I read it a bit differently in that I thought the baby really was one of the Hundred Changelings, but due to the nature of the Link, it didn't really die, it just lost its ability to be an independent entity. Everything it was is still alive in Odo, but the potential it represented as a new changeling that could grow into a unique individual under Odo's care was lost, and that was something that would have been more important to Odo than what he gained from it joining with him.

 

[The Predaking]

I read it a bit differently in that I thought the baby really was one of the Hundred Changelings, but due to the nature of the Link, it didn't really die, it just lost its ability to be an independent entity. Everything it was is still alive in Odo, but the potential it represented as a new changeling that could grow into a unique individual under Odo's care was lost, and that was something that would have been more important to Odo than what he gained from it joining with him.

Well, later on, the Founders will have claimed to have given Odo his abilities back.

 

[Cybersnark]

Yeah, I'm with Copper. It was a bittersweet ending. The baby just flipped the same genetic switch the Great Link did.

The Founders couldn't have known this would happen; they intended Odo's punishment to be a (slow, torturous) death sentence.

(And of course the Founders lie and say it was all part of the plan. They are Gods, after all.)

 

[Fero McPigletron]

I'm at season 6 at the Sacrifice of Angels. So many things to get into but the lines are blurring cuz the story arc got deeply serial. Deep Space 9 being taken over is done. It was harrowing but I hate the Deus ex machina wormhole ending tho. Just can't believe which angel was sacrificed but if it had to be someone, I'm ok with the choice.

Yeah, the lady Founder said Odo was forgiven but there was no mention of the baby. Good job on the three day Linkfest, haha

Lots of Nog in the background. Rom is also reliably, until he failed at the crucial end.

That Vorta Weyoun spelling is so JLU's The Question, haha

Saw Alexander, son of Worf. He's human looking.

 

[The Predaking]

I'm at season 6 at the Sacrifice of Angels. So many things to get into but the lines are blurring cuz the story arc got deeply serial. Deep Space 9 being taken over is done. It was harrowing but I hate the Deus ex machina wormhole ending tho. Just can't believe which angel was sacrificed but if it had to be someone, I'm ok with the choice.

Yeah, the lady Founder said Odo was forgiven but there was no mention of the baby. Good job on the three day Linkfest, haha

Lots of Nog in the background. Rom is also reliably, until he failed at the crucial end.

That Vorta Weyoun spelling is so JLU's The Question, haha

Saw Alexander, son of Worf. He's human looking.

Fortune favors the Bold and Sacrifice of Angels was a great two-parter. I love that they don't drag the Occupation of DS9 out for the whole season, and I love how Dukat just breaks here after her death. Dukat is a complex character and as much as he is an evil villain, he still loved his daughter. I often theorize about the Dominion fleet and what happened to them. I like to think that they were sent back in time and became the Hurq. I mean, it makes sense, as the Hurq came in and conquered the Klingons for a time in the distant past and then just got kicked off their world and never seen again. That is just my fan theory though.


Alexander's Mother was half Human, so they let Alexander look a little more human than most Klingons.

 

[Dekafox]

Star Trek Online made an entire story arc out of the missing Jem'Hadar fleet, called "The 2800" where they finally exit the wormhole in 2409, take over the station, and then you have to go retrieve a changeling from Federation High Security prison to tell them off and send them back, since they can't reach the Dominion by communicator for whatever reason at that point.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

The fleet that disappeared are never returned in the show? That's kinda horrible. They were practically killed off. Cool that STO brought them back. I actually wouldn't have minded if DS9 was kept under Gul Dukat for longer but now it's status quo.

I laughed at the end of Jadzia's wedding. Attack! Shame that Odo wasn't a close friend of Worf and didn't participate in the bachelor party, haha

Bareil came back! That was cool. Different guy but it was cool.

I loved the mutants! Jack was crazy but awesome. Also the seductress who was always reclining, haha. I wanted to bring up before that I don't get what the fuss is about genetic manipulation (since you're enhancing yourself, like with glasses or even wearing shoes) but I get an example with the four amazing brainiacs having no empathy or whatever. I hope they come back! They're amazing!

Could have had one more Ferengi to it a Magnificent Seven. I thought the female in love with Quark was coming back. I can't place the accent or inflection of Cousin Gaila but I like it a lot. Nog ordering them around was nice. Also good call back to the Vorta in that stranded episode. What a horrible end for him tho.

 

[The Predaking]

The fleet that disappeared are never returned in the show? That's kinda horrible. They were practically killed off. Cool that STO brought them back. I actually wouldn't have minded if DS9 was kept under Gul Dukat for longer but now it's status quo.

I laughed at the end of Jadzia's wedding. Attack! Shame that Odo wasn't a close friend of Worf and didn't participate in the bachelor party, haha

Bareil came back! That was cool. Different guy but it was cool.

I loved the mutants! Jack was crazy but awesome. Also the seductress who was always reclining, haha. I wanted to bring up before that I don't get what the fuss is about genetic manipulation (since you're enhancing yourself, like with glasses or even wearing shoes) but I get an example with the four amazing brainiacs having no empathy or whatever. I hope they come back! They're amazing!

Could have had one more Ferengi to it a Magnificent Seven. I thought the female in love with Quark was coming back. I can't place the accent or inflection of Cousin Gaila but I like it a lot. Nog ordering them around was nice. Also good call back to the Vorta in that stranded episode. What a horrible end for him tho.

The whole wedding episode with the Matriarch of the house of Martok was great. I love that their greeting is that Martok isn't dead yet, to which he replies that he hopes to die within the next year or so. Have you got to the story about her letting out his favorite Targ yet?

I liked that version of Bareil too. Even the mirrorverse version of him is a good guy at heart.

The mutants do show up once more. The crazy thing about their predictions is that everything that they said is 100% true and happens. However Bashir was right when he said that there were other factors that they didn't consider.

Also, the whole gene manipulation thing that star fleet has is because of the Eugenics Wars that occurred when genetically modified humans decided to rule over humanity. Its an old archaic law that needs to be updated as the mutants show what happens when its done secretly in some back water world. Bashir just got lucky that his parents didn't try to do too much and had someone that knew what they were doing.

That Vorta did have his own men slaughtered, and killed Starfleet people in the process, so I don't feel too bad for him. I am surprised at his lack of faith in the founders like the other Vorta have.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Don't know the Targ or the Hurq.

I was going to ask where the Eugenics War happened since it was mentioned when Bashir was revealed to be genetically tampered but I'm assuming it's... Star Trek 2 Wrath of Khan? Very happy to know the mutants will be back. They need a better name though.

I've got a season and a half to go.

 

[Copper Bezel]

The Hur'q are a species that invaded the Klingons, and the Klingons' own first contact with an alien species. The Hur'q are dead now. Targs are simply Klingon dogs.

The Eugenics War happened in 1992. (SNW has retconned this as "tomorrow", for any given "today", and WoG is that the Eugenics War spills over into World War III, the one that humans are still recovering from in the past setting in First Contact.) Khan was a big bad in said war and one of the heads of the augmented factions, and later put himself in stasis and was ultimately found by Kirk.

 

[Ungnome]

All we really know of the Hur'q from proper sources is that their empire was large and originally from the Gamma Quadrant, they conquered Qo'noS, were eventually driven off Qo'noS by the Klingons and that the Federation has their DNA sequences on file. If they were Dominion forces, the Federation would have known. The DNA should have matched that of either the Vorta or Jem'Hadar.

 

[wonko the sane?]

That's assuming anyone bothered to look. Realistically: who cares to check on the DNA files of the long dead, ancient invaders of klingon history... when we've got MODERN invaders of the federation to worry about.

Given how the federation works, I'm sure it'll come out eventually: but until someone actually asks the computer the right question... And the answer will be met with "meh" from the klingons, cause, you know... the hur'q are already dead.

 

[Ungnome]

It was the Vulcans who discovered the Hur'q ruins containing the Sword of Kahless shortly before the Dominion war and at that time the Federation already knew of the Dominions existence, though they weren't aware of the extent of the threat. The Federation includes the Vulcans and a bunch of borderline psychotic human scientists, surely one of them would have checked.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Liking just for the "borderline psychotic" comment.

 

[Dekafox]

The way STO treated it, it was a secret that the Hurq were the first attempt at geneticly engineered soldiers, kept from the rest of the Dominion - as the changeling we freed in The 2800 was one of the ones originally responsible for it, and tries to eliminate us to keep us from finding out. They were created well before the Jem'Hadar or the Vorta, and abandoned after they lost control. Additionally, they were insectoid in STO's interpretation:

And the Sword of Kahless was forged from their chitin, which we figure out because of certain Germanium isotopes in it that are used to try to track them back to their homeworld after they become active and start swarming everywhere, after the Tzenkethi were stopped from bombing the planets they were hibernating on with protomatter. (This was the previous story arc, and there were other races living on those planets; plus the Tzenkethi refused to talk about WHY they were doing it until it was too late.)

Side note: the Fek'Ihri were another attempt at engineering after the Hur'q:

2,000 years ago, a Dominion research team, investigating the species of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, were impressed by the Klingons, believing them to be potential for a new warrior class to replace the Jem'Hadar. In this, they used Klingon genetic material to breed a new species, taking inspiration from the Fek'Ihri mythos, and bound them with Ketracel White like the Jem'Hadar.

The Fek'Ihri somehow broke their addiction to the White, killing the Dominion research team. Instead, they found and joined forces with Molor. The price of their freedom from the White was, however, insanity. The Dominion abandoned the project and hoped the Klingons and Fek'Ihri would wipe each other out.

I'd also stress that if you don't like or agree with this, that STO is at this point its own timeline ala the Kelvin timeline. This is all A interpretation of these beings and events and not THE interpretation, at least until or unless any of this is referanced on TV or in a Movie. Until we get an official interpretation though it works for me, just like the whole situation with the Iconians and the Iconian War.

 

[Cybersnark]

The Federation includes the Vulcans and a bunch of borderline psychotic human scientists,

 

[wonko the sane?]

We all read the article man. We plugged the two warp cores together and exploded twice as fast: GO HUMANITY!

 

[Fero McPigletron]

We all read the article man. We plugged the two warp cores together and exploded twice as fast: GO HUMANITY!

Is... Is that a reference to a meme graphic about how crazy humans are? Something a torus and how Vulcans learned the F word from working around humans? Haha

Was going to wait until other big eps but just saw One Little Ship and it was adorable! An actual 'incredible shrinking' ep trope! Absolutely cute little Rubicon ship flying around doing sabotage, haha. If it wasn't for the poor, sad Second Jem'Hadar being ignored when he was right, it would have just been a funny ep. Loved the ending with Worf's fake poem (there was a little ship, that took a little trip... Then Jadzia grabbed the sheet and saw there was nothing written on it! Her smile, hahaha! Also Odo and Quark trolling Bashir and O'Brien for supposedly being shorter, hahaha!)

Anyhow, science wise, it was probably explained at the start but that tiny Rubicon ship was made to fly in outer space , right? But it was just floating inside the Defiant, which has artificial gravity. How could the ship operate then? Unless it was built to expose actual planets with atmosphere or whatever, then it would just be grounded with no flight thrust or whatever.

Also that hallucination flashback of Sisko with the social commentary story about black guys writing in the past probably had me seeing Worf and Odo out of make up. Weird seeing Worf without facial hair. Didn't recognize him at first. Then Jake had a mustache, haha. And he got killed. Quark's face, I know from Buffy already. Would have been fun to see Rom or Nog or any Ferengi actors there.

 

[Copper Bezel]

Anyhow, science wise, it was probably explained at the start but that tiny Rubicon ship was made to fly in outer space , right? But it was just floating inside the Defiant, which has artificial gravity. How could the ship operate then? Unless it was built to expose actual planets with atmosphere or whatever, then it would just be grounded with no flight thrust or whatever.

Runabouts are just big shuttles, and they land them on planets all the time. Sometimes without even crashing or being stranded! One G and one atmosphere is entirely normal operating conditions for them. (Obviously they can't go to warp while in atmospheric flight but nothing can. )

No, the science hole you don't want to fall down is questioning whether materials compressed by the anomaly have any properties changed other than their size. The ship is luckily a sealed environment, so you don't have to worry about whether the Szalinski kids can breathe normal oxygen molecules with their spatially compressed hemoglobin. But light is light and nanometers are nanometers, so they should be seeing in ultraviolet when they look out the windows. And if the Rubicon retains its full mass, then whatever thrust or repulsion is allowing it to fly should be doing a number on the Defiant's deck plating. I expect the mass to be the same because the compressed matter has to more or less retain the properties of its full size self, and shouldn't actually behave like a scale model of itself made with a tiny fraction of the material. For one, you couldn't make normal functioning cells and computers and things at that size out of normal atoms, and anyway the Scalinskis would be transparent, and also dead of radiation poisoning from the warp core since its shielding would be too thin to stop anything.

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts....