THE Transformers THE Movie THE Apology Tour: We're Sorry for Killing Optimus Prime

DefaultOption

Sourball
Citizen
Geez Louise. Did John Hasbro kick some of y'all's puppies before he showed you that ad? God forbid they have some fun with a nostalgia-driven franchise.

Are you going to demand that the wiki get rid of all the funny captions next?

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Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
You know, we joke about a lot of things that the movie did and could have done better, but killing off Optimus to replace him with Rodimus was apparently just the tip of the iceberg according to an old review of the movie from 1998 that I found on alt.toys.transformers back when I was making the ATT archive that I made on the wiki.

I've been meaning to share this review on here for some time since I found it rather amusing, but kept forgetting about it. But now, in light of this occasion, I guess now's as good a time as any.

It was written by Robert Powers (also known online as "repowers") and followed a screening of the movie at BotCon 1998.

Manic Ramblings and Delerious Ranting, re: Why TF:TM SUCKS!

I have never liked Transformers: the Movie very much, but seeing it this weekend at BotCon brought home to me just what a vast letdown it really is. Be warned, by the time I am done you're going to think this is The Critic posting... I fully intend to shred the Movie to itty-bitty pieces, and I don't just mean because of trivial errors like Sunstreaker being in two places at once.

Someone at BotCon commented that "it's cool because it had Transformers in it." No, the *TV show* was cool because it had Transformers. A *movie* is by its nature something greater, something special, and it should reflect that and be held to a higher standard. For starters, a *movie*, be it a spin-off from a show, a toy line promotion, or otherwise, should be a stand-alone piece of work. It is presented in theaters where it can reach a wider audience who might not see its subject matter on TV or in comics. TFTM fails in this regard. It is never explained what the hell Autobots and Decepticons *are*; instead we jump straight in, throwing first-time Transformer viewers into a confusing succession of rapidly-changing scenes with dozens of characters, many of whom die shortly after being established, only to be replaced with new ones, and still more new characters (Junkions, Quintessons, Wheelie, Sharkticons) after that. Most of these characters are not developed or explained, nor for the most part do they serve to push the plot along.

Even if you disagree and feel that the Movie is aimed soley at fans of the show who already know what's going on, it pales beside another fact: the basic plot sucks, pure and simple. There are two major plots set up in the first five or ten minutes of the movie: Unicron's existance, and the coming Autobot invasion of Decepticon-held Cybertron.

The first plot point is NEVER EXPLAINED. WHERE did he come from? WHY does Unicron give a damn about Cybertron? WHY does he choose to attack, instead of just going somewhere else? If he's such a menace, WHY have the Autobots never heard of him? In light of the fact that they don't know about him, if he simply by-passed Cybertron he could have continued on his merry way for the rest of enternity. WHY is the Matrix the one thing that he fears? HOW does it affect him? If he can create a whole ship, why does he need Megatron to serve him? Unicron is essentially the king daddy of all plot devices, a giant threat put in soley for the purpose of having a giant threat, without any explanation or relevance to the characters. Worse still, the giant threat is removed by a simplistic application of yet another plot device, the Matrix. No application of wit, force, sacrifice, or intelligence by the characters is involved; the character who just *happened* to have the Matrix just *happens* to be fighting the one character who can open the Matrix, and they just *happen* to be inside Unicron at the time when Hot Rod just *happens* to grab it.

The second plot point is dropped completely and never returned to. The Autobots reclaiming of Cybertron -- in essence, finally winning the war -- is a *major* event in the TF Universe and is a logical thing to make the Movie about. There are other possibilities, but this is the most blatantly obvious one, the one that would best fulfill Transfans hopes and expectations. Properly set up, it could have been the focus of an excellent "heroic struggle against oppression" story. But instead we get a diversionary attack on Autobot city, which primarily serves as an opportunity to get rid of old characters quickly. Later Unicron attacks Cybertron and is destroyed, and all of a sudden a few Autobots are on Cybertron... and the Movie ends. No mention that they've even captured the planet, let alone HOW, considering there were only a dozen or so of them. So what should be the biggest event in the cartoon's story is completely ignored in favor of the artificial and contrived plot device of Unicron.

Turning our expectations isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it leaves the viewer wondering just why the hell we were set up to expect something else in the first place. You didn't really need that first plot to begin with. The set-up of the first two seasons would have been a fine scenario to have Unicron arrive under; it would have required cooperation between the two sides, strategy perhaps -- in short, an intelligent plot.

Furthermore, the second plot point of Unicron is itself never really addressed; instead we get yet *another* diversion, as the Autobots flounder helplessly from one place to another, leaving the viewer saying, "Well, those were pretty pictures, but what does it have to *do* with anything?" By the time we get to Hot Rod and Kup fighting Sharkticons, that is my precise reaction. The only tangential relation that the Junk/Quintessa sidetrips have is that they allow the Autobots to recruit a few allies who prove to be rather useless in the end. These two sets of characters would have been much more better off being relegated to the TV series, if they had to be shown at all.

[And for the record, it is glaringly obvious that the writers of the Movie never had *any* intention of the Quintessons being the TFs' creators. They were just a bunch of funky aliens who hung around on their planet playing mock trial; they were no more interested in Hot Rod and Kup than they were any other prisoner. The Quints as the TFs creators is one of the most abysmal retcons I've ever seen... given their role in the Movie, it is simply and totally unbelievable. On top of that, the Quints should be DEAD! The Sharkticons were right on their tail with the overwhelming advantage of numbers. I cannot believe the characters we saw in the Movie actually survived, let alone regained control of their former charges. Nowhere was it implied that this race was more populous than a few wierdos sitting in their little fortress.]

Also, a few points I've made before, but don't mind repeating: the deaths in the movie were *extremely* poorly handled. The Autobots on the shuttle and in the city more than anything, but several Decepticons also went out without a word. If we've not seen these characters speak -- if we know nothing about them -- who cares if they're dead? All it does is infuriate the fans and confuse non-fans. The Movie did nothing to establish these characters; it simply lifted them from the cartoon and killed them. Consider, what if James Kirk had been killed in the first two minutes of Star Trek: Generations? Say what you will about that film, it did enough to make Kirk a real person to the viewer, so that when he dies at the end, you actually care, even if you've never seen Star Trek before in your whole life. TF:TM did nothing of the sort for any of the characters except Optimus Prime, and maybe Starscream (who went out with a fine sense of having gotten his come-uppance.)

Continued below...
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Review was too long, had to split into two posts:

At this point, you're thinking, "Fine! If it's so bad, let's see you do it better." So, okay, here's some ideas I jotted down in the course of an hour on the flight home. One hour. If I were a professional writer getting paid to do this, with several *weeks* at least to work on it, I hope I could do better than these...

* Keep the first five or ten minutes mostly the same, but with more narrative explanation of what the hell is going on. Explain that the Transformers are living robots, and they have had a civil war going on for eons, and that their war has recently spilled over on to Earth. Maybe add a series of still shots, in rough pencil or black & white, a la the first episode of Robotech that explained the Global Civil War; a series of flashbacks from the cartoon would do as well, or entirely new animation. Set it up as a mythological tale, a la the movie Willow, rather than a big toy commercial.

* Instead of attacking Autobot city, the 'cons could attack the moonbases, which really are the more immediate threat. The bases call for help; soon both sides are fighting and present at Cybertron when Unicron arrives/is detected. Maybe Soundwave or Blaster recieves a distress call from a planet Unicron is consuming; maybe he just pops up with no warning.

* With Big U on the way, Megs and Prime ally their forces. A fanfic I read once mentioned the possibility of them all retreating to Cybertron to defend the planet by some sort of phase or time shift; ie, the whole planet is sent a few minutes into the future, or perhaps into another dimension. Other possibilities include conventional large-scale defenses, electrical counterattack, or large-scale shielding. Whatever the case, you could have Unicron hovering over Cybertron the whole time with hostile intentions if you wanted... sci fi can always provide handy tech explanations to do whatever you want in a plot.

* Perhaps while initiating one or more of these attacks, the Decepticons manage to conveniently eliminate some of the Autobots who are helping. I picture Shockwave trapping Prowl inside a gun emplacement or generator housing that's about to overload and explode...

* A team (maybe the Movie characters - HR, UM, Kup, Arcee and Springer) could be sent to recruit help from off-planet, seek some artifact that can be used against Unicron, or find someone with knowledge of some weakness. The Quints could concievably play a useful roll here.

* A team could be sent to Vector Sigma, or somewhere else inside of Cybertron, to get answers on how to deal with Unicron. This could also provide a chance to give Unicron a background and motivation for attacking.

* A team could be sent inside Unicron himself, to attempt sabotage of some sort.

* Introduce Galvatron & co as seperate characters, perhaps, sent by Unicron to disrupt these efforts (somewhat like what Furman did in the comics.) Keep them as rouge elements in the third season, perhaps loosely aligned with the Decepticons. Or have Galvatron's role filled by some 'con that Unicron manages to turn against Megatron somehow. Or have Megatron reformed into Galvatron at the end of the movie, promising to restore the Decepticons even as they retreat.

* Have as a basic plot, "The Autobots and the Decepticons team up to fight off a menace. But the Decepticons betray the Autobots' trust during the alliance. The 'cons end up losing the war by the end of the movie despite their underhandedness, showing that honesty and integrity will triumph." Maybe *this* could be when Prime arrives to save the day.

* Imagine a finale in which Prime and Megatron *both* have to sacrifice themselves to get the Matrix inside of Unicron, or to do whatever else is necessary to get rid of Big U.

These are only possibilities, a few of many. I thought of them in one hour. I feel any of them would result in a superior product compared to what we got. Better writers than I could come up with still better ideas.

Add to this often stiff animation, frequently stiff voice work, and the many little animation and continuity glitches that everyone likes to point out as the movie's worst flaws, and frankly it's no wonder that critics frequently pan TF:TM.

And, one last thing: ditch that damn soundtrack!! I am not knocking Vince Dicola here; I'm not fond of his music but I think he did at least a respectable job on the film. But "Nothing's Gonna Stand in Our Way" is just a BAD song. "Dare" comes off as just a gratuitous attempt to make Hot Rod and/or Daniel seem cool. Stan Bush's and the other guys' music cutting in all of a sudden is distracting, abruptly taking us from movie to music video. Stuff like that blares at the viewer, making them cringe in their seat, distracting from action and dialogue alike, and turning off people like myself who despise 80s glam metal.

Gods. Remember analogies, from standardized testing? Here's one for ya... Raksha:BW Megatron::Rob:TFTM.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I've been meaning to share this review on here for some time since I found it rather amusing, but kept forgetting about it. But now, in light of this occasion, I guess now's as good a time as any.

It was written by Robert Powers (also known online as "repowers") and followed a screening of the movie at BotCon 1998.



Continued below...
I miss this era of fans writing articles. Text-based discussion of all things Transformers. Robert Powers, Robert Jung, and Dave van Domelen were among the ones whose work I deep-dived when I was getting back into things around BW/BM, and backreading these and the newsgroup threads was a lot of fun.

This was one of the first more sober assessments of the movie as a movie I remember seeing and I really appreciated it. I think the actual flaws of the movie are pretty clear, and aren't really about killing off any one specific character. This piece was instrumental in drawing my attention to those and what could have been done better. I don't agree with all of it -- a lot of this might not work given when preproduction was, it's always going to BE a toy commercial, and do NOT touch that soundtrack -- but it was good to see someone put into words the lull and dissatisfaction some parts of the movie seemed to bring to me even as a kid.

In general it's interesting to reflect on how differently a "___: the movie" is done these days, especially if the aim is a wider theatrical release that's (now more consistently) meant to bring in new audiences rather than just be a spectacle for the current one (and introduce a new era or season).
 
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LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Ha! Joke's on them. By the time I saw Optimus die, he was already back and running around leading the Autobots again! (Yeah, the time from theatrical run to home video release was a right hell of a thing back then.)

But speaking of which, I hope that means they follow this apology tour up with the one where they cut Rodimus Prime's run as Autobot leader short.

OPgetsshot.gif


Put that truck back in the ground, and let the Winnebago GO!
 

CoffeeHorse

Hanging in there
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I've definitely read that rant before. I agree with the critiques but don't agree with any of the solutions, save this one.

* A team could be sent to Vector Sigma, or somewhere else inside of Cybertron, to get answers on how to deal with Unicron. This could also provide a chance to give Unicron a background and motivation for attacking.

Yeah, some scene needed to be added somewhere explaining who the heck Unicron is and what his deal is. Otherwise, this guy's proposal doesn't sound any better to me. It sounds like Return of the Jedi pacing. An opening act, and then the whole rest of the movie on Cybertron dealing with the big threat. Except even worse, if the opening act is also on Cybertron because the attack is on the moon base instead of Autobot City.

As messy as TFTM is, the Autobots' increasingly desperate journey from Earth to Cybertron is a better structure than this.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Ehh, I always felt like it meandered after Optimus and Megatron died. I'd buy into the sense of desperation if it were able to sink in, which it wasn't (aside from some lines of dialogue) because what followed was ooh, a weird new planet, ooh, another weird new planet, let's do a Bollywood intermission dance, oh right, the Matrix, I just know it can beat the bad guy, let's go home. I'm with you in that staying on Cybertron for the whole story is less interesting, but there are plenty of options in between what felt like an aimless romp and staying still.

A lot of these suggestions seem oriented toward making better use of the existing cast and lore, and the immediate orientation toward Serious Mythology Featuring Characters We Already Love and away from Selling New Stuff is very... of its time. (I miss that time a bit.) This is part of what I was alluding to when I mentioned that a franchise's The Movie is done differently now; these days instead of a big commercial for the next batch, it's a commercial for the whole franchise, and what's being sold is new toys of the core cast/elements. But not being a commercial is off the table immediately, so while I liked the suggestions they never seemed that feasible, almost too insular.

A more pressing problem of the movie is that it has two huge narrative tentpoles: this new threat, and a big fatal faceoff between Op and Megs (as part of clearing the decks for The New Toys). Having them be separate chunks of the movie hurt the structure a lot.

If Optimus and Megatron have to die, that has to be part of the climactic moment, not the highlight of the first act (in the movie we got, it kind of overshadows the rest of the film). At most, make it the end of act 2; this could force their factions to work together to beat back Unicron for act 3. (Hell, these days you wouldn't even do all this in one movie.)

Buncha rambling about how that might go:
Act 1. Status quo, attack on Autobot City Earth. Maybe Starscream is running this one and complaining about the assignment, which he feels is a waste of time as it isn't even one of the newer Autobot Cities on other planets -- or one of the moon bases, an attack that Megatron has saved for himself to lead. The Autobots HERE are a bunch of trainees being babysat by the City Commander.

This is interrupted by distress signals from Megatron's team: something else, something huge is attacking the moon bases, maybe with legions of Sweeps, and Megatron's gone missing. Starscream bitterly falls back, Autobots send shuttles to the moon bases and the other Autobot Cities. The outer moon base falls.

Act 2. Decepticons find a wounded Megatron on Cybertron, being tended to by Jazz and an annoyed Cliffjumper, who flew him out of the devoured moon base. The threat is revealed: Unicron, an ancient evil who's been biding his time and building up his strength by consuming planets after expending himself in a primordial battle eons ago. Yes, from the legends we totally already knew about.

Perceptor finds no data on the Sweeps but notes that their metal has a whatever signature from the future, and they keep mentioning a Galvatron. Because he's old, Kup knows some lore about Unicron and the Matrix of Leadership. Maybe some of this info also comes from the returning aid teams' encounters on Junk or Quintessa, or refugees from there arrive with more lore proving these are more than just legends, idk, they have to show up somewhere. Anyway, it's decided that the plan is for Optimus to destroy him by opening the Matrix he carries. Optimus makes a heroic run because he has The Touch, mowing down Sweeps and saving Cybertronians as he makes his way to the point of Cybertron closest to Unicron.

But Megatron is revealed to have made a deal with Unicron (to spare Cybertron, gain power, whatever, in exchange for the Matrix), in the moments before he was "saved" on the moon base, and betrays Optimus, who dies in battle with him without opening the Matrix. As they battle, Unicron consumes the nearer moon base (aw jive what're we gonna do now) and grows stronger.

However, Megatron double-crosses Unicron too, because Megatron. As Unicron calls him close to give him the upgrade and power he'd promised, Megatron uses the opportunity to try and open the Matrix himself, figuring he can have Cybertron either way if the monster is dead. This leads to Unicron angrily reneging: he's not at full strength, but he's at sufficient strength to transform to robot mode, destroy Cybertron, and just eat the Matrix with a Megatron chaser.

Act 3. The Autobots and Decepticons have to work together to defend Cybertron, now from Unicron as well. Now that he's in robot mode, just opening the Matrix won't be enough; it has to be at his heart or brain or something. A plan is devised to infiltrate Unicron and find the Matrix, and bot/con pairs go in. As it happens, Wheelie and Starscream find Megatron. Starscream naturally betrays Megatron, and just as naturally is shot, and with his last ounce of strength sends his leader falling into Unicorn's brain or whatever as Wheelie opens the Matrix.

Unicron go boom, head fly off, everyone escapes, a tenuous peace is established on Cybertron, and we close on Unicorn's head where we can see Galvatron being formed in the wreckage.
 
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Steevy Maximus

Well known pompous pontificator
Citizen
I'm over people who can't get over fandom wars from 20 years ago, on both sides.

I mean the video shows a bunch of stock images of toddlers crying in movie theatres. "Pandering to aging crybabies" isn't what I'd describe it as.
And just be clear, I’m not against a good bit of satire. Knights of Unicron was amazing, and I’m over geeking out on the new Cyberworld designs and ideas. The establishment of a real life Cold Slither was wonderful, over in GI Joe.

But as a LONG time fan, I think I’m just over all the attention the 86 film gets every 5 years. And, while good satire (really), the sentiment of “apologizing for ruining your childhood” just…doesn’t hit as humorously as it might to me if I didn’t continue to see broader fandom(s) and societal trends that have seemingly pushed towards this vibe of “placating” existing groups over even minor offenses that have previously occurred.

I’m not sure how well I’m articulating that sentiment. And maybe it really does come down to “great, another year of anything new or different being sidelined to regurgitate more TFTM nostalgia bait to eke out more money from insatiable fans”. With maybe a dash of the current doom filled geo-socio-political climate we have at the moment.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I mean, it's an anniversary year, so we were going to get the usual milking no matter what. I guess people just appreciate a slightly different flavor of nostalgia bait. And in these smoggy geosociopolitical times, we're in dire need of something to laugh at.

And sure, the people who don't get that they're the joke will take this and run with it five miles the wrong way. There's already a few "this is marketing done right!"s from people whom I strongly suspect of meaning something entirely different. But they were already insufferable with or without this. At least this is, by comparison, a pandering over something that's ultimately harmless. Although I get that the pandering and coddling that's happening elsewhere is over much more real things, and it can be hard to see this differently.
 
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Sciflyer

Two arms and one smile
Citizen
I enjoyed reading that old synopsis of TFTM! Like others though, I have some qualms about a few things, the biggest one being: if you didn't know what The Transformers were by 1986, you were the problem!! :LOL: Seriously though, I feel like the film does make an effort to setup the basic framework of what's going on - and at the very beginning, too.
 
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Haywire

Collecter of Gobots and Godzilla
Citizen
I may be wrong, but I have always felt like The Transformers The Movie borrowed a lot of structure (or lack thereof) from Heavy Metal. Most of it feels like somewhat isolated stories bound within the framework of a looming cosmic threat, with a rock music soundtrack in the background. (Granted, i've seen Heavy Metal maybe once or twice, and TFTM...a few more times than that) It's not a 1:1, and TFTM is way more kid appropriate than Heavy Metal, but I can't help but think that at least some of the people involved were influenced by Heavy Metal.

I say that mainly because I have never considered TFTM to be a great movie, but it's a memorable movie, because they didn't play it safe. They took risks and killed off characters (yes, this was a marketing strategy, but they could have gone a different, less violent route), they didn't just make a feature-length TV episode that ended with the normal status quo. They shook things up, and that shake-up carried on into season 3 of the show, and while that didn't necessarily equate with longevity, it did set Transformers apart from similar shows of the era (like Gobots, I'm forced to admit, where things always reset to status quo by the end of every episode. People still talk about TFTM today, while only hard-core Gobots fans ever talk about the Gobots cartoon.)
 

Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
Citizen
I may be wrong, but I have always felt like The Transformers The Movie borrowed a lot of structure (or lack thereof) from Heavy Metal. Most of it feels like somewhat isolated stories bound within the framework of a looming cosmic threat, with a rock music soundtrack in the background. (Granted, i've seen Heavy Metal maybe once or twice, and TFTM...a few more times than that) It's not a 1:1, and TFTM is way more kid appropriate than Heavy Metal, but I can't help but think that at least some of the people involved were influenced by Heavy Metal.

I say that mainly because I have never considered TFTM to be a great movie, but it's a memorable movie, because they didn't play it safe. They took risks and killed off characters (yes, this was a marketing strategy, but they could have gone a different, less violent route), they didn't just make a feature-length TV episode that ended with the normal status quo. They shook things up, and that shake-up carried on into season 3 of the show, and while that didn't necessarily equate with longevity, it did set Transformers apart from similar shows of the era (like Gobots, I'm forced to admit, where things always reset to status quo by the end of every episode. People still talk about TFTM today, while only hard-core Gobots fans ever talk about the Gobots cartoon.)
I kept subconsciously adding War to every mention of Heavy Metal. Couldn't quite figure out where power chip rectifiers fit into all this...
 

Kalidor

Supreme System Overlord
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
i too love how the increasingly older manchildren who are still upset over hot rod killing their 80s cartoon dad 40 ******* years ago are now getting official corporate approval from hasbro. very cool i love this brand, i love nostalgia slop. can't wait for the 45th anniversary where they release some AI generated edit of TFTM where optimus doesn't die and instead personally apologizes to everyone who was upset as a kid in 1986 that it happened.

You're being silly. It's all tongue and cheek. I'm *in* the video ffs.
 

Agent X

Kreon Bastard
Citizen
Honestly, it was the inclusion of the talking head/reaction-Actors that instantly turned me off. I despise low-effort milled out 'content' like that, so when marketing uses derivative content in their advertisements, I am (unreasonably?) disgusted.

However, without the 'testimonials' the whole attempt at humor would fall even flatter? So a necessary evil?
 


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