Post Pictures of your Transformers: Autumnbots and Halloween Horrorcons!

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Everyone had known that reboots were possible when Aramda came around... but like... it was still fun to speculate.

Which is kind of my point with this rambly trip down memory lane. None of these fan theories ended up being accurate, but they were fun. They fueled speculation, got people hyped for the shows, even if everyone's theories ended up being wrong.

We've kind of lost something with everything being so thoroughly streamlined that speculation doesn't have a chance to grow. Stuff is shown off and fully announced, and any lingering questions get answered by the brand team or the showrunners on social media.

There's no going back, social media and how it's changed creator/fan interactions has changed forever, but I still think it's worth pointing out that something has been lost.

It was a fascinating in-between state. Reboots were possible and increasingly familiar, but not quite the norm yet, with all that implies. The Ultimate universe in Marvel had been going for a short while but was still kind of this novel, exciting, unpredictable experiment. Dreamwave's G1 was initially billed (I very hazily remember this from an old Wizard article) as filling in the gap between Season 2 and the Movie, so even that was still in the old paradigm of maintaining continuity. And this was well after the mid-90s marketing-driven Marvel reboots had ended up being haggled down to soft reboots or alternate universe things to keep that audience somewhat interested.

Even in adaptations, "something deliberately being different from the original (in small and large ways)" was still something audiences in different areas saw as an aberration rather than the done thing. For every Hitchhiker's Guide fandom that half-expected each adaptation to go its own way in some respects, there were Marvel fans who occupied themselves with complaining that Movie Wolverine was too tall. Out-and-out reboots that started entirely new things were kind of daunting, which is an artifact of the inertia of holding onto a continuity or status quo for so long. But the possibility they represented was indeed fun, and that's something I sorely miss now -- the sharp irony is that everything's a damn reboot or new universe now, but we haven't gotten any Generations-line fiction in years, and the last time we did it was the WFC "aNiMe" that was... certainly a thing that existed.

I do think that was part of what made the fan experience interesting. I think it came from gaps being present and left as gaps, not either filled in by official media created to fill in those gaps (and I'm not even talking about ridiculousness like AVP here), or distracted from by more more more product (or media not necessarily meant to fill in those gaps) to occupy us with. And that wild west feel of everything being a possible frontier, with space left for us to fill in the gaps in our own ways, was powerful. The quality of the theories and the fanfic would vary, of course, but I remember avidly seeking them out for the fun of seeing how this writer or that played with the concepts.


Either way... I donno man, I just read it differently. The BW Ark stuff is grounded in the idea that if history is altered the present as we (and the characters) know it will cease to be. So Cheetor referring to Optimus Prime, the leader of the Autobots from the most momentous conflict in Cybertronian history, as "our" ancestor seems fitting.

But in BM's The Search it's just Primal and (what we think is) the essence of Optimus Prime. And Primal refers to him as his ancestor. It feels more personal, more direct.

I genuinely don't care one way or the other about whether or not it was a direct line of ancestry in Primal's case (I do remember seeing this somewhere, maybe a Skir Q and A, and shrugging at it mattering so much to some even then), but I do agree that "he's our ancestor" is a very different thing from "my ancestor".
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
I genuinely don't care one way or the other about whether or not it was a direct line of ancestry in Primal's case (I do remember seeing this somewhere, maybe a Skir Q and A, and shrugging at it mattering so much to some even then), but I do agree that "he's our ancestor" is a very different thing from "my ancestor".
All of this does prod at the question of how things like "family" and "ancestry" even work with Cybertronians, but tbh this was a thing even back in G1. Sunstreaker and Sideswipe were brothers going back to the first wave of G1 toys/characters.

It's a weird aspect of the franchise that has never really had a satisfying explanation, but I also don't think it needs one. Sideswipe and Sunstreaker consider themselves "brothers," whatever that means. And I just assumed Arcee was Rattrap's great aunt, whatever that means to Cybertronians. And Optimus Prime was Optimus Primal's ancestor, whatever that means.

But I do find it funny how so many fan assumptions and creator/fan mistakes happen during the Beast Era.

Another one was the belief that the BW writers had stated that G1 was akin to Arthurian lore to the BW generation, this far off, distant, almost mythological history.
Only that was never what was said. What was said was that the BW writers saw all of Transformers as it existed at the time being akin to Arthurian lore- a collection of disparate ideas and stories that form a larger "canon" that modern writers could pull from to tell new stories. So it wasn't "the Autobots and Decepticons are akin to Arthurian myths." It was "we as writers treat what's come before as malleable mythology we can pull from, like authors have been doing with Arthurian lore for centuries."
 

Platypus Prime

Well-known member
Citizen
I can't criticize anyone, for my own shelf I put HasLab Optimus with the Origins Autobots, HasLab Micromasters, and Star Saber in place of the Car Brothers, Spy Changers, and Train combiners simply because I had them, they fit visually (for me) and I liked them. On the other side I have in progress Deathsaurus, the core class Dinoforce and some repurposed Safari armored dinos, and Year of the Goat laser Prime with plans for the AOTP Combaticons, and an Encore Fort Max with full ToyHax stickers and a TFSS Pretender shell, replacing the RID Predacons, Decepticons, and Grand Maximus.

If anyone ever sees the setup and has a continuity stroke, I will simply explain that it's 'as described in Kup's war stories'.
 

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
As I said, fandom gonna fandom. BW especially seems full of stuff that wasn't meant to be taken literally but ended up being so.
Probably because it was in that sweet spot of having the internet around where fans could circulate stuff easily but before social media so creators couldn't correct the record as publicly or in as wide spread a way.

Either way... I donno. It is what it is.

I think this might be why Hasbro didn't want Skir and Isenberg to look at what had come before...

...eh, probably not. But I bet it wouldn't have hurt their case.

I remember the early days in Ben Yee's Beast Wars forum where people would obsess over if Optimus Primal was really Optimus Prime, and Cheetor was Hot Rod, and so on.

That's practically how I came into Beast Wars, after reading some back-of-the-box bios from the early waves. Optimus was Optimus, Megatron was Megatron, Grimlock was Grimlock... Hot Rod obviously wouldn't be a Hot Rod, so maybe he took on a new name...?

Terrorsaur seemed so Starscream-like, I was sure it HAD to be him. And Scorponok... yeah, sure, that could be him. For reasons, if anyone bothered to explain (which they didn't, because he wasn't).

Took me a little longer to actually get into the cartoon, because I was initially put off at how different things were on the ones I thought I knew. Primal didn't feel like Optimus... and what the hell was with the mouth?! And Megatron seemed way too different to me as well.

So I ditched until curiosity beckoned me back.

Armada, though, is probably my favourite. The reveal of Megatron's design for the series being somewhat Scorponok-esque had people speculating that Armada was a sequel to Western G1, specifically following up from the Rebirth, with Galvatron and Zarak having somehow merged.

Ah, good times...

As Shadewing said, the trailers didn't help matters.


Honestly? While none of these theories panned out, they weren't without merit at the time. Especially with RiD '01. While separate continuities had always existed (Marvel G1 vs Sunbow G1), the franchise hadn't really gone into full reboots yet. You had G1, BW was firmly a sequel to that, and BM was a direct followup. The idea that they'd just go with a different continuity rebooting everything wasn't really introduced yet, so it makes sense that people would try and fit RiD '01 into the existing timeline. That it featured Autobots vs Predacons really did seem like it could theoretically slip into some middle period transitioning between the G1 era and Beast Era.

The ironic part being that it was only after we finally accepted RiD as its own thing that we'd turn around and find out that it was part of G1... well, the Japanese version, at least.

We've kind of lost something with everything being so thoroughly streamlined that speculation doesn't have a chance to grow. Stuff is shown off and fully announced, and any lingering questions get answered by the brand team or the showrunners on social media.

Yeah, not to mention that with reboots happening so frequently, there's just little basis for speculation that anything would be connected to what came before, unless we're told outright.

Bet no one would guess RiD 2015 was a sequel to Prime had we not been told as much before it aired.

I can't criticize anyone, for my own shelf I put HasLab Optimus with the Origins Autobots, HasLab Micromasters, and Star Saber in place of the Car Brothers, Spy Changers, and Train combiners simply because I had them, they fit visually (for me) and I liked them. On the other side I have in progress Deathsaurus, the core class Dinoforce and some repurposed Safari armored dinos, and Year of the Goat laser Prime with plans for the AOTP Combaticons, and an Encore Fort Max with full ToyHax stickers and a TFSS Pretender shell, replacing the RID Predacons, Decepticons, and Grand Maximus.

If anyone ever sees the setup and has a continuity stroke, I will simply explain that it's 'as described in Kup's war stories'.

My collection has no set continuity/universe. It's really more of an Axiom Nexus kind of setup, but a little less stuck-up.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
I still chuckle about the narrator calling the Autobots "peaceful" as Hot Shot brings out a bazooka, Red Alert draws a big-ass gun, and Optimus shoots the camera.
G1 Optimus: Freedom is the right of all sentient beings!

Also G1 Optimus: DIE DECEPITCON SCUM!

IMG_9051.jpeg


I kid, but I did find Unicron goading Optimus on in the final arc of Armada, about how despite his peaceful proclamations he was just as guilty as perpetuating war as Megatron was... and Optimus realizing he wasn't entirely wrong.

It's strangely deep for a show with Armada's (somewhat unearned) negative reputation.

That's practically how I came into Beast Wars, after reading some back-of-the-box bios from the early waves. Optimus was Optimus, Megatron was Megatron, Grimlock was Grimlock... Hot Rod obviously wouldn't be a Hot Rod, so maybe he took on a new name...?

Terrorsaur seemed so Starscream-like, I was sure it HAD to be him. And Scorponok... yeah, sure, that could be him. For reasons, if anyone bothered to explain (which they didn't, because he wasn't).
It didn't help that the original idea behind Beast Wars, which was reflected in the mini comic that launched the line and the first wave of toy bios, was that these were the Autobots and Decepticons having further adapted to Earth, following on from their G1/G2 fights. So how you took all of that was probably in line with how Hasbro originally wanted you to view it all.

Mainframe deciding that no, these are actually the Autobots and Decepticons' descendants 300 years in the future but also in the past was kind of a curveball I don't think even Hasbro was expecting.
Still, it all pivoted pretty quickly once the show was out.

I'd love for a Beast Wars take that follows that original intention. Rather than rehashing the 90s show's setup again and again.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I kid, but I did find Unicron goading Optimus on in the final arc of Armada, about how despite his peaceful proclamations he was just as guilty as perpetuating war as Megatron was... and Optimus realizing he wasn't entirely wrong.

It's strangely deep for a show with Armada's (somewhat unearned) negative reputation.
Unicron's goading is even more chilling and less "Mwahaha!" in the original Japanese version.
 

Donocropolis

Olde-Timey Member
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
ML/Armada are the only take on Unicron that felt like a proper cosmic horror.
'86 kinda gets there... but not quite.

The opening scene with planet-mode Unicron slinking through space like a shark through the shallows and devouring Lithone while the screaming populace tries, in vain, to escape definitely fits the bill.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
The opening scene with planet-mode Unicron slinking through space like a shark through the shallows and devouring Lithone while the screaming populace tries, in vain, to escape definitely fits the bill.
The screaming is even more intensified in the Japanese dub (which is available to watch subtitled on YouTube via Karyuudo).
 

Exatron

Kaiser Dragon
Citizen
I always felt that that toy should have been either Bumper, or if they couldn't afford new head tooling for that release, then Yellow Cliffjumper. No one wanted or needed a Bumblebee with Cliffjumper's car mode for no reason.
Completely agreed. I only had it because of Fangry, who I would have much rather been able to buy on his own. I'd been hoping to be able to get a Bumper head for it for quite a while. This isn't how I expected to get it, but I'll take it!

It's technically not quite the same shade of yellow, but it's close enough that I don't think I'd be able to notice if I wasn't specifically looking for the difference. It's certainly less noticeable than the variation between, say, ER Sunstreaker's different yellows.
 


Top Bottom