Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

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Sourball
Citizen
I really do not understand just why the GOP as an entity has decided to hang on so tightly to Trump.
Because there's no actual leadership in the Republican party anymore, and there hasn't been for going on thirty years now. The elected R's are entirely reactionary, and they take their orders from Rupert Murdoch via the GOP base telling them about what the hot topics are on Fox News. And before Fox, Rush Limbaugh was the unelected Republican Supreme Leader.

The people who constitute the conservative 'base' are effectively a nationwide mob directed by the right-wing media, and the GOP office holders have learned that crossing the mob is a one-way ticket to the unemployment line. There's a reason that the only time any elected Republican ever shows a spine and says anything honest and/or critical about the current state of the party is at least five minutes after they've announced that they won't be running for reelection.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
I don't understand why a Libertarian convention invited Trump to speak. As much as he deserves to get booed, it is pretty crass to invite someone you are going to boo to speak at your event.
 

Ironbite4

Well-known member
Citizen
I love it. The GOP oked an event where Trump was exposed as the lying liar that he is and now they can't stop the narrative that he's not as popular as they think he is. I love it.

Ironbite-wonder how Trump doubles down on the boos.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
They'll edit the footage to cut out the heckling, like they always do. It's too late for that, but it doesn't matter anymore. Everyone who's already against trump doesn't need more proof of his lies, and the folks pulling FOR trump won't ever see the original footage and don't about it anyway. There's very few, if any at all that are still on the fence about this.
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
And also got the headlines to be about booing Trump instead of the guy they nominated for President.
Still the most impactful outcome they could have hoped for. No one cares about Libertarian candidates, including most libertarians. That dude down the street with the yellow snake flag votes Republican all the way down the ticket, every year, just like his neighbor with the giant Trump banner.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
Still the most impactful outcome they could have hoped for. No one cares about Libertarian candidates, including most libertarians. That dude down the street with the yellow snake flag votes Republican all the way down the ticket, every year, just like his neighbor with the giant Trump banner.
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Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
They'll edit the footage to cut out the heckling, like they always do. It's too late for that, but it doesn't matter anymore. Everyone who's already against trump doesn't need more proof of his lies, and the folks pulling FOR trump won't ever see the original footage and don't about it anyway. There's very few, if any at all that are still on the fence about this.
I don't think you're wrong. But I do have a question.
If the election were held tomorrow, do you think the results would be the same as the election in November?
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
If the election were held tomorrow, the results would be different than if it was held in november. Of course.

There's time enough for more people to die, to come of age to vote, for trump to be held accountable for his criming, for more information to come out, for both sides to make a lot more ads and propaganda. Marginal changes to be true, and the biggest effects won't actually be the presidential race: trump has lost that. Nothing will get it back for him. Where the real differences will be seen is in the down ballot races: as more and more lesser republicans parade onto television and social media desperate to get the attention of the cultists and trump, the more people will see that they are very bad for the country, and the more will reconsider how they're voting. All of this is also affected by how much money trump is sucking up for his legal fees, making even bigger named republicans hard pressed to find voice in a system where money is the be all end all.

The longer the republicans have to debase themselves, the more people will see republicans debasing themselves. For trump.

The cult alone is not and will never be enough votes for trump to legitimately win an election. That's why they are engaging in ongoing and increasing voter suppression at all levels and of all kinds. But if you all want to stop the next trump before they can get off the ground: you need to vote out republicans on all levels and in as many positions as possible.

If republicans can rally in the lesser halls of power across the country: they'll do it all again, and probably choose someone whom is marginally more effective at hiding their crimes.

If you do it right this time. Get enough blue votes up and down the ballots: the republican party collapses under the weight of it's own incompetence, and other conservative parties will form and fight for the non cult members that were driven out in the endless maga purity challenges.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
Look man, it's just math.

Oh, and an understanding that both the mainstream media is complicit in spreading misinformation, and that the polls are WRONG. The majority of the population and their habits are being ignored in favour of NOT having to come up with a methodology for reaching them in a way that won't be overtly and obviously fucked with. So the pollsters call ******* land lines and get... older folks in conservative areas, or cultists that only use the cell phone and internets for truth social. It's also why in the last few elections the republicans have BADLY underperformed. It's why they were screaming about a red wave and have a ONE PERSON majority.

You need to vote. You need to check your voter registration. You need to help all your friends and family to check theirs, and you need to rally and organize to get out to vote, and you need to vote blue all the way down the ticket. From president to dog catcher: you vote ******* blue.

But before you do all that: you need to turn the news OFF. You need to take a mental health break. You need to analyze your own media consumption habits and work out a schedule and find sources that are actually reporting the news and not spewing sensationalism. It's not even june, you can turn it off for a few weeks, get your head on straight again, build yourself back up, and get back to it smarter and more reasonably than before.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. You flag out now and give into apathy? You lose, you forfeit YOUR future, and you actively hug over the rest of the world.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
I felt pretty good in 2020 when consistent polling on state by state was showing Biden winning for pretty much the whole month before the election. It is too soon for me to be confident. A lot can change in either direction.

In spite of all of the stuff in Trump's first term, Biden didn't win by a super-comfortable margin and I don't think he would have if it hadn't been for Covid. I'm not looking for another pandemic, but Ukraine or Israel can get Biden in trouble without Biden don't anything else. The economy can still screw him up. A terrorist attack or a genuine border crisis could totally sink him.

An acquittal could help Trump a whole lot. So could a good choice for Vice President. Someone popular in a swing state.

I am not over here wringing my hands, but I'm not going to say that it is all over.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
No, it's not over, not by a long shot. Follow the instructions in my previous post, please. Step 2, then step 1.

There are no good choices for trump veep. He will pick an absolute sycophant, and burn bridges in the process. It'll either be an absolute nobody that will salute him and kiss ass like the rest of us breath; or some powerfully evil, flawed and ugly person like noem whom will be ruined in the media long before election day. There's no other options; there's no one left in the cult that are otherwise. And no "reasonable conservative" have all either jumped ship, or given up.

Ukraine is started to get american aid again, the rest of nato is currently working on an "america proof" 5 year long, multi billion euro package... just. in. case. As long as they got guns, and russia has functionally global sanctions: ukraine won't lose. It'll be expensive, but they can't lose. Plus, poland is just looking for an excuse.

There won't be a terrorist attack: and even if there is, it'll be mitigated because biden won't ignore the possibility when the intelligence crosses his desk, cause biden actually reads jive.

The economy could hug biden over, yeah. But it's too strong right now, and none of the big corporations are psychotic enough to destroy it on purpose: there's too much money to be had. And that's all they want, either through legitimate growth, or tax cuts. They don't care which. In fact, the which depends on entirely whom is in political power at the time. And it'll only get better moving into the christmas shopping season.

Israel... is a charlie foxtrot. I got nothing. The US won't stop supporting israel, israel doesn't want a palestinian state: they lose an easy boogieman that way. Hamas doesn't want a palestinian state: they lose social and political power that way. I have literally no sunshine to blow up your ass on this. One of those two organizations needs to break before progress can get made: and neither will break.

They just passed the bipartisan/republican border bill: so there's no real or actual crisis in the immediate future unless another south american nation explodes. You know, not writing that out, it's just not likely soon.

Biden is going to win the november election: so long as you get yourself, your friends, your family out to vote blue. He probably won't win by much again, and frankly: no matter how much he wins by, republicans will scream fraud and illegitimate. They already are. Vote blue, and make sure you buy toilet paper, a mess of instant dinners, and some good strong liquor on jan 5th to help you sit out jan 7th to 10th. It's probably going to get ugly, keep yourself, your friends and your family out of the way, let it get suppressed like it will, and a better world waits on the otherside of the troubles.
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
Nothing is over until Trump is either behind bars or in a pine box. He'll never stop trying to steal the office back, because he can't conceive of the idea of something he wants not being his. So yes, vote and keep voting, but don't expect him to just disappear when he loses.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
Ukraine is started to get american aid again, the rest of nato is currently working on an "america proof" 5 year long, multi billion euro package... just. in. case. As long as they got guns, and russia has functionally global sanctions: ukraine won't lose. It'll be expensive, but they can't lose. Plus, poland is just looking for an excuse.
I was surprised to have Republicans turn against Ukraine and I don't have my head all the way around it. I guess that it is mainly fealty to Trump and Trump's fascination with Putin, but I am amazed that it all got together as strong as it did.

I am pretty much certain that at this point Putin is aware that his victory in Ukraine will not be allowed. I don't mean that I forgive him the error of invading another country, but I can forgive him the error of not realizing all of this would happen in advance. I was not even aware at the time that he had done the same thing to Georgia a few years earlier. I didn't hear about it. It didn't become a big deal. Putin probably thought the same would happen there. But it is different now. USA, England, France, and Germany are not fighting him directly, but he is surely aware that if he grows his monster, we'll assemble a Megazord.
 

KidTDragon

Now with hi-res avatar!
Citizen


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