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@  Dekafox : (18 June 2021 - 05:24 PM)

Spotlight: Lioconvoy?

@  Bass X0 : (18 June 2021 - 04:15 PM)

How long until IDW puts out an Optimus Pride Month comic?

@  Cyoti : (18 June 2021 - 03:32 PM)

Even with B5, it didn't follow its original 5-year plan. Summaries from the supplementary materials for the scriptbooks demonstrates that was originally planned was very different from the actual product. Sinclair's actor's departure seemingly changed the show to the point that the stuff with the Vorlons/Shadows, the Minbari and the ending were all changed. Mapping out a show years in advance is difficult because of changing bts stuff like writers/actors leaving the show or suddenly having to retool because of ratings/execs. No plan survives intact especially in a chaotic environment of television production.

@  Rycochet : (18 June 2021 - 11:27 AM)

To be like Babylon 5, you need to cram a 2 season story arc into one because you fear being cancelled, then get further seasons you have no more material for. You also need a spinoff which the network heads don't want and do everything in their power to kill it while it's on air.

@  wonko the sane? : (18 June 2021 - 10:33 AM)

The required effort is probably why we don't have babylon 6; TNG.

@  Dekafox : (18 June 2021 - 10:23 AM)

Everyone wants to be like Babylon 5 but no one wants to put in the effort

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 09:36 AM)

And then, after five years of hosting their own official podcast where they would answer fan questions and always encouraged their audience to pay attention to the mysteries, after the show had ended, they claimed the show was never really about the mysteries, it was all about the characters.

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 09:34 AM)

What really bugs me with "Lost" is that the producers had willfully negotiated a set end date with the network halfway through season 3 (the show ended with season 6, as planned) specifically so they could plan out the plot for the remainder of the show. Then... the plot wasn't resolved properly.

@  tigerhawk : (18 June 2021 - 04:17 AM)

By then I had lost interest in arc TV shows, I followed a few and got the impression they were just making them up as they went along. Seemed to be a trend starting with new Galactica and Lost though in actuality began with The X Files and has become a trope called 'The Chris Carter Effect'.

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 02:12 AM)

I think it was season 3 part 1 specifically, since they had two separate plot "arcs" for season 3.

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 02:11 AM)

They threw everything in there, with no clear story structure, no clear stakes, and characters flip-flopping wherever the episode's writer needed them to go for their half-baked plot.

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 02:10 AM)

Season 3 was the worst, with a terrible meandering random events plot.

@  tigerhawk : (17 June 2021 - 11:59 PM)

'save the cheerleader' then in season 3 he tears her skull open, scans her power and she simply heals. They didn't think any of it through.

@  Shockwave 75 : (17 June 2021 - 07:04 PM)

Well, you know Hollywood; if something's popular, run it into the ground!

@  Cybersnark : (17 June 2021 - 04:40 PM)

And then there was the Writers' Strike, which isn't the show's fault.

@  Cybersnark : (17 June 2021 - 04:40 PM)

Yeah, Sylar should've been, if not killed off, at least left to rest.

@  Nevermore : (17 June 2021 - 03:43 PM)

It never truly recovered from that.

@  Nevermore : (17 June 2021 - 03:43 PM)

Season 1 was good until the finale.

@  Paladin : (17 June 2021 - 09:37 AM)

because it sucked.

@  tigerhawk : (17 June 2021 - 08:58 AM)

Heroes was cancelled twice.

@  Nevermore : (17 June 2021 - 06:33 AM)

The song's official name is "Holding Out for a Hero".

@  PlutoniumBoss : (17 June 2021 - 12:54 AM)

That's a long time to wait for a sandwich.

@  Maruten : (16 June 2021 - 07:13 PM)

Lucky there's a hero arriving in July.

@  Steevy Maximus : (16 June 2021 - 05:38 PM)

I think I've heard "I Need a Hero" more times this past week than I have in the past several years.

@  tigerhawk : (16 June 2021 - 12:41 PM)

Thanks to Earthrise I can recreate the end of Return of Optimus Prime part 1.

@  wonko the sane? : (16 June 2021 - 11:19 AM)

I wish they would do something like that here: but then it would become obvious in which provinces you're getting gouged.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 10:42 AM)

Here in Germany, the price you see is the price you pay, tax included.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 10:42 AM)

I always find it weaird hearing that stores in the US don't initially already taxes in their prices.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 04:33 AM)

You know what's kewl? Poor literacy.

@  wonko the sane? : (15 June 2021 - 04:31 PM)

Awesome, thanks for the heads up.

@  CORVUS : (15 June 2021 - 04:12 PM)

Kewl. Thanks!

@  Kalidor : (15 June 2021 - 02:08 PM)

Hey everybody! I wanted to announce that Sarahthecutevixen is our newest addition to the Allspark staff. She's primarily looking over discord stuff, but I wanted to make sure she got a welcome over here as well.

@  NovaSaber : (14 June 2021 - 11:07 AM)

Turn-Bass RPG

@  Sabrblade : (14 June 2021 - 10:21 AM)

Do not X0 quietly into the night.

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 June 2021 - 10:13 AM)

All your Bass are--

@  Donocropolis : (14 June 2021 - 05:56 AM)

*Bass X0 not available in Alaska or Hawaii.

@  Steevy Maximus : (13 June 2021 - 07:36 PM)

Get your own Big Mouth BassX0 for the low price of $19.95 (plusshippingandhandling)

@  repowers : (13 June 2021 - 12:45 PM)

Mr. Speaker, we are for the Bass X0.

@  Nevermore : (13 June 2021 - 06:04 AM)

It's all about that Bass XD.

@  tigerhawk : (13 June 2021 - 02:16 AM)

Will altering the moons orbit in any way help.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (13 June 2021 - 01:51 AM)

Now that you have seen this Bass XO, you must send it to five other Bass XOs or BassXO will come to you in a week and then you too will be BassXO.

@  Telly : (13 June 2021 - 12:08 AM)

or feed him after midnight

@  wonko the sane? : (12 June 2021 - 09:00 PM)

Just don't drop him.

@  Kaon : (12 June 2021 - 08:03 PM)

man this chat is nothing but Bass X)

@  Nevermore : (12 June 2021 - 07:08 PM)

Carefull, he is a Bass Xo.

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 June 2021 - 05:53 PM)

Aw, it's not even a shiny.

@  Sabrblade : (12 June 2021 - 05:27 PM)

A wild Bass X0 has appeared!

@  Bass X0 : (12 June 2021 - 05:20 PM)

I didn't even try this time.

@  Nevermore : (12 June 2021 - 03:43 AM)

8ass XÖ has hijacked this conversation.

@  Bass X0 : (12 June 2021 - 03:37 AM)

Its Bass X0. I named myself after my three favourite Mega Man characters - Bass, X and Zero. I did consider going with Vile Bass X0, but that would have been going too far.


Photo

Effing gender, how does it work?

gender sex performance mens purses identity

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180 replies to this topic

#21 Rhinox

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:41 AM

. . . I play female characters only when I'm doing super evil runs.  I've just always thought women could get away with being evil genius' easier than men.  


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#22 Lazy Garou

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:29 AM

I've read a few authors trying to understand what is with us. Desmond Morris, Carl Sagan and Rodolfo Llinás. Still trying to process the avalanche of information the books I read gave me. Some of it is disturbing and I spent weeks feeling like we are horrible creatures, but it's normal to feel like that when the things you believed in are being challenged.  I was born in a very conservative society, which sees things in black and white and most of the issues discussed here would be considered sinful. 

 

I guess I'm not ready to give an educated answer about the subject yet. but I am choosing to leave the old ways of thinking behind me, and learn more about our species no matter how bitter it may be.


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#23 TerraEsperZ

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:51 PM

What book are you reading? I'm interested - I want to get my terminology straight.

 

"Whipping Girl: A Transsexual Woman on Sexism and the Scapegoating of Feminity" by Julia Serano. I think the excerpt on the back says it best:

 

In this provocative manifesto, biologist and transsexual woman Julia Serano shares her experience pre- and post-transition, and reveals the ways that fear, contempt, and dismissiveness toward femininity shape society's attitudes toward trans women, as well as gender and sexuality as a whole. Whipping Girl is a personal, analytical, gripping account that debunks popular misconceptions about transsexuality, while exposing the cultural belief that feminity is frivolous, weak, and inherently inferior to maleness and masculinity.

 

It's very enlightening in lots of ways but it is *not* light reading and can feel like a thesis sometimes.


Edited by TerraEsperZ, 01 March 2014 - 12:52 PM.


#24 Cybersnark

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:21 PM

My perspective is a bit skewed since I've read so much science fiction (where "male" and "female" have different cultural baggage attached to them, are not the only options, or are simply not relevant). My definition of "normal" is different from most humans. Sometimes "female" is the default.

For myself, I'm male and reasonably comfortable with my masculinity --though almost all my close friends have been female, and I tend to be considered "one of the girls," and I'm well aware that my possession of a penis gives me an unfair advantage in western society. The parts of my body that I hate have nothing to do with my sex, and when I get the chance to upgrade into a post-apocalyptic killer robot, my persona will still be masculine.

I'm "straight upon reflection" (I've considered it, and, while I can appreciate masculine beauty, I personally prefer women [I like curves, and curves don't work well on men]), but I love romances and emotion and all that traditionally feminine stuff.

As a writer (with a particular interest in childrens' entertainment and education), I also tend to pay a lot of attention to how young girls are raised and indoctrinated.

The first girl I fell in love with (in high school) was brilliant and sarcastic and creative --and she felt like the entire world was telling her that she needed to grow up and assume her proper place: that of a suburban housewife and teacher (no other career options available). I tried to argue otherwise, but I was just one voice. So, after high school, I had to watch as she deconstructed herself into oblivion and gave up on everything that made her amazing (no more art, no more wicca, no more X-Files, no more anime, no more eclectic music).

I never want another girl to go through that, and I never want another boy to have to watch helplessly.


Edited by Cybersnark, 01 March 2014 - 01:23 PM.


#25 wonko the sane?

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:24 PM

So... when discussing the pervasiveness of gender roles and stereotypes you immediately jump on an ICP meme? Really?

 

Whatever: To break it down to it simplest terms that apply to me, I never gave it much thought or care. I am what I am, and I like what I like. I always found the concept of certain things being linked to gender for no other reason for no other reason than "someone said so so long ago that we don't even know who said it anymore" as being patently ridiculous.

 

I mean: I understand the biological limitations. Males will never be able to give birth, and if legitimately given the option: most would pass on it anyway.

 

But other things like... make up, clothes, shoes, food, perception in the media, and expectations in a social setting. I wouldn't wish girdles or high heels on my worst enemy, why are women still expected to wear them?

 

And yet... I still can't bring myself to play a female in games either. But its probably associated with the same mentality that won't let me play a villain.


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#26 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:48 PM

I'm not happy with the sex I was born as, although I don't see a sex change making me feel any better. I'm just not happy with gender in general or something.

#27 Rust

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:18 PM

My perspective is a bit skewed since I've read so much science fiction (where "male" and "female" have different cultural baggage attached to them, are not the only options, or are simply not relevant). My definition of "normal" is different from most humans. Sometimes "female" is the default.

For myself, I'm male and reasonably comfortable with my masculinity --though almost all my close friends have been female, and I tend to be considered "one of the girls," and I'm well aware that my possession of a penis gives me an unfair advantage in western society. The parts of my body that I hate have nothing to do with my sex, and when I get the chance to upgrade into a post-apocalyptic killer robot, my persona will still be masculine.

I'm "straight upon reflection" (I've considered it, and, while I can appreciate masculine beauty, I personally prefer women [I like curves, and curves don't work well on men]), but I love romances and emotion and all that traditionally feminine stuff.
 

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. Right down to the Robot Body after the Apocalypse.

 

PUNY FLESH CREATURES.


Edited by Rust, 01 March 2014 - 03:18 PM.


#28 TerraEsperZ

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:23 PM

I'm not happy with the sex I was born as, although I don't see a sex change making me feel any better. I'm just not happy with gender in general or something.

 

And that's perfectly fine. Some people identify outside the gender binary or just plain disregard gender entirely. As a society, we would be so much happier if anything that wasn't representative of the majority wasn't considered "abnormal" and in need of being dismissed/hated/fixed.



#29 Varnon

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:30 PM

The only time I have ever chosen to play a female character in a game where the player could chose gender was my female monk in Diablo 3.

I really liked the art for her character because she was not half-naked and didn't have insanely exaggerated features (boobs n' buttz TM). I choose to play as that character not because I identified with male for female, but because I supported a semi-realistic non nude portrayal of females in games.

...

And then I once I created the character I found out that her starting armor was essentially naked. UGH, so close.

 

 

 

 

Personally, I don't really identify with any stereotypical male/female traits. I am male because I have a penis, and I am heterosexual because I want women to know I have a penis.

Most of my friends are what I would consider "gender neutral" in that they don't have the traits that our culture exaggerates as being masculine or feminine.

I imagine there is more to the feeling of belonging to a gender than cultural stereotypes, but I'm not sure it is something I could ever understand. It just has never been something I have considered. I do hope we can do away with some of the cultural stereotypes though.


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#30 Dekafox

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:35 PM

Like some of the other things above, I see myself as male, and I'm fairly comfortable with it.  I've done a lot of writing and RP(In the D&D sense) however where my character(or main character) has been female, and I've had people confuse me for female online due to this, at least unless I told them otherwise or spoke on voice chat.  While it wasn't when I was younger, as I've grown older it's sort of become my default, though that sort of goes back to the writing, as I tend to like writing long involved backstories for my characters.  That might go back to some of the exploration stuff mentioned on the last page, as I look at the few backstories I've written for male characters and most of them never got beyond a page.  Maybe my feminine side just tends to express itself better in writing than my masculine side.  

 

Honestly, comparing myself to the stereotypes I'd probably come out closer to gender neutral than anything, but after having mentally toyed with those sort of things I've definitely came to the conclusion that male is the most fitting, given the two options.

 

When it comes to my body though, that's also sort of neither here not there.  It's definitely male, but it's also just sort of there, with no real attachment to it.  My idealized self-image basically has nothing to do with what I see in the mirror, and there's reasons for that, but that's a whole 'nother conversation. That same self-image though is indistupitably male.  It does lead to an odd feeling through when doing daily stuff like shaving before work etc that's hard to put into words... like molding a mask out of clay or something?  It's not dislike or like, just indifference.



#31 Copper Bezel

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:58 PM

The first girl I fell in love with (in high school) was brilliant and sarcastic and creative --and she felt like the entire world was telling her that she needed to grow up and assume her proper place: that of a suburban housewife and teacher (no other career options available). [...] I never want another girl to go through that, and I never want another boy to have to watch helplessly.

I guess I respond to things like this the way I respond to poverty. Or just bad parenting, for that matter. It doesn't seem different to me from a boy who dreams of being an astronaut, but becomes a software engineer because his parents discourage him from trying. The answers are obvious, the pain is real, and all we learn is that there is still bitterness and abject ignorance in this world.
 

Whipping Girl: A Transsexual Woman on Sexism and the Scapegoating of Feminity by Julia Serano.

Excellent - local library network's no help, but I'll have it Tuesday. Still can't do e-books.
 

It's very enlightening in lots of ways but it is *not* light reading and can feel like a thesis sometimes.

Sounds perfect, actually. I want something with details that requires a bit of active reading.
 

I've read a few authors trying to understand what is with us. Desmond Morris, Carl Sagan and Rodolfo Llinás. Still trying to process the avalanche of information the books I read gave me. Some of it is disturbing and I spent weeks feeling like we are horrible creatures, but it's normal to feel like that when the things you believed in are being challenged. [...] I guess I'm not ready to give an educated answer about the subject yet. but I am choosing to leave the old ways of thinking behind me, and learn more about our species no matter how bitter it may be.

A worthy objective. It was a difficult transition for me, but I eventually got to see the beauty in the real world. I think Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors was one of the most eye-opening explorations of the human condition I've ever read, along with The Extended Phenotype from Dawkins.
 

Most guys who plays as girls in game just do it so they can stare at a female ass all day.

I have to say, I don't game. I had to quit years ago, because it brought out nasty things in me that don't normally come up otherwise. I'm experimenting with getting back into it. But I do think that's a big part of it, yeah (and for me, too - I'm quite irreparably straight.)
 

And considering AFAIK it's almost the 100% same campaign, you're not really getting an accurate view of "experiencing the world as a woman" since the male and female perspectives are nowhere near that close in real life.

Well, two parts to it. First, a female character will undoubtedly, whether we like it or not, read as more vulnerable in a combat situation, and personally, I've always preferred gameplay that makes me feel vulnerable (my aspiring game designer brother describes this as "survival" as opposed to "action.") That said, I think that in fiction, there are scenes and themes that are more likely to appear for female characters that tend to humanize them in ways that male characters don't ordinarily get. Obviously, that's not a thing in Mass Effect.

But there's something else, too, for me at least - like female is "default human," and then male is something subtracted from that. Again, that could just be an effect of being so straight that I don't think of male sexuality as a thing (as object or subject) to the point that men start to seem incomplete.

I guess that sounds vaguely Freudian or something, but I have the avatar for it.

If you mean Automan2000's reference to "experiencing the world as a woman," though, I think that has more to do with role play itself and is something happening between the screen and the brain, not within the game proper.
 

I think the draw of a female protagonist is that ,as men, we have the curiosity to know what it would be like to experience the world as a woman. Doing so IRL would require a lot or medical procedures and in the end would be irreversible. So, by reading a story that is told from a female POV allows us to explore being a woman while also allowing us to effortlessly and safely return to our normal lives afterwards.

State the obvious, but such procedures would also be insufficiently convincing (to my taste, at least.) Everyone's condition is already irreversible. Safety and security aside, all fiction in any form is an attempt to experience something we couldn't otherwise and broaden our effective experience.
 

So... when discussing the pervasiveness of gender roles and stereotypes you immediately jump on an ICP meme? Really?

Please forgive the woeful ignorance in my choice of a catchy meme to represent my own shameful ignorance on the subject at hand. I know nothing about ICP, or didn't until I read their Wikipedia article before typing this post, and I'd not even heard the song until I looked it up before typing the OP.

I like the meme because it's so self-defeating, not just in the original context of the song, but because magnetism is a fundamental force in the Standard Model, thus, without a "how it works."
 

And yet... I still can't bring myself to play a female in games either. But its probably associated with the same mentality that won't let me play a villain.

The parts of my body that I hate have nothing to do with my sex, and when I get the chance to upgrade into a post-apocalyptic killer robot, my persona will still be masculine.

That's the bit that intrigues me. I feel like being white is a fundamental part of my identity, to the point that playing a black character or a non-anime Asian one would feel distancing. I don't feel that with male vs. female, just a slight awkwardness in that my lived experience just makes me bad at being a girl (or rather, not good at it for lack of practice, where I think I'd actually be bad at being a black person.) So that dissonance or whatever is actually what interests me most here and what I want to hear more about, because I don't experience it. So I'm really appreciating the perspectives.

I guess I can't say I've never felt a subconscious catch in the process of doing something I consciously recognize as feminine-coded, but it feels like an internalized fear of ridicule, not an internalized aspect of identity. It's that I don't want to be read as creepy, not that I don't want to be read as feminine, like I think people will assume I'm getting off on it. Instead of worrying that I'm reflecting some part of my gender identity that I don't want to show, I'm worried that I'll seem to reflect that I'm pretending. 

 

That might be a deeper part of my personality, though - trying to tell someone something I know they won't believe always feels exactly the same as lying.


Edited by Copper Bezel, 01 March 2014 - 05:55 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#32 Copper Bezel

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:10 PM

Ran out of quote blocks. 
 

And then I once I created the character I found out that her starting armor was essentially naked. UGH, so close.


Ha! That's terrible. 
 

Personally, I don't really identify with any stereotypical male/female traits. I am male because I have a penis, and I am heterosexual because I want women to know I have a penis.

My idealized self-image basically has nothing to do with what I see in the mirror, and there's reasons for that, but that's a whole 'nother conversation. That same self-image though is indistupitably male.


Now that's interesting. My ideal self (after the robot apocalypse) would definitely be female, and no part of my perception of sexuality is enhanced by the presence of penises.

Edited by Copper Bezel, 01 March 2014 - 04:10 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#33 Kalidor

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:27 PM

What I don't understand is why a topic like this has to be in a protected forum specifically for political or religious topics instead of a broader subject of life and biology

Well I do understand why, it just makes me sad inside. the state of our literal being should never be a subject of law or dogma.

#34 Copper Bezel

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:59 PM

Yeah, my first draft of the OP (about twice the length) included a disclaimer about the fact that this isn't a political or religious topic but acknowledging that it steps on too many political and religious toes. It got cut for space. So, yeah, it's kinda sad that that apparently goes without saying.

Edited by Copper Bezel, 01 March 2014 - 04:59 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#35 Monique

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:03 PM

yes when I first saw the topic pop up I pretty much worried it was going to get ugly quick. But people have been surprisingly open



#36 Copper Bezel

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:44 PM

Yeah, it's been a very productive and positive discussion so far (from my POV, I mean - this is the sort of thing I was looking for.)

Edited by Copper Bezel, 01 March 2014 - 05:45 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#37 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:23 PM

Is it really a "thing" for people to claim a completely new gender classification for themselves, ie agender, bigender?

It seems to me that if you like or don't mind your physical biological sex, then your emotional / psychiatric gender matches it; if you feel it doesn't match, then you're the other one (hence the very concept of transgender). I don't get how a person could feel like "none of the above," especially if they have no biological or emotional experience with one of them. If someone has two X chromosomes and female anatomy, I could understand them not feeling like a woman and the truth of them being trans. But how could they say they didn't feel like a man either, if they don't know what being a man feels like?

#38 Patch

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:51 PM

I wonder if, not only gender, but the entire sense of body/mind congruence isn't more likely to be an issue when you have a group of people who interact primarily through online avenues.  The whole psychological concept of "detachment" is what I'm thinking of.



#39 Ashley

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:10 PM

It would be nice if society had fewer assumptions about gender roles and stereotypes. Everyone would probably be happier if they didn't have as much pressure to fit everyone else's expectations of what men and women should be.


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#40 Bainreese

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:24 PM

I'm content with who I am and how I was made. I'm aware that crying at sad movies is seen as weak and non-male, but I don't care. I understand not all men enjoy something like Downton Abbey, but I find it awesome, Can't say I've really thought beyond that...or care to. I'm content.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
·´¯`·.. ><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>