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@  Dekafox : (18 June 2021 - 05:24 PM)

Spotlight: Lioconvoy?

@  Bass X0 : (18 June 2021 - 04:15 PM)

How long until IDW puts out an Optimus Pride Month comic?

@  Cyoti : (18 June 2021 - 03:32 PM)

Even with B5, it didn't follow its original 5-year plan. Summaries from the supplementary materials for the scriptbooks demonstrates that was originally planned was very different from the actual product. Sinclair's actor's departure seemingly changed the show to the point that the stuff with the Vorlons/Shadows, the Minbari and the ending were all changed. Mapping out a show years in advance is difficult because of changing bts stuff like writers/actors leaving the show or suddenly having to retool because of ratings/execs. No plan survives intact especially in a chaotic environment of television production.

@  Rycochet : (18 June 2021 - 11:27 AM)

To be like Babylon 5, you need to cram a 2 season story arc into one because you fear being cancelled, then get further seasons you have no more material for. You also need a spinoff which the network heads don't want and do everything in their power to kill it while it's on air.

@  wonko the sane? : (18 June 2021 - 10:33 AM)

The required effort is probably why we don't have babylon 6; TNG.

@  Dekafox : (18 June 2021 - 10:23 AM)

Everyone wants to be like Babylon 5 but no one wants to put in the effort

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 09:36 AM)

And then, after five years of hosting their own official podcast where they would answer fan questions and always encouraged their audience to pay attention to the mysteries, after the show had ended, they claimed the show was never really about the mysteries, it was all about the characters.

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 09:34 AM)

What really bugs me with "Lost" is that the producers had willfully negotiated a set end date with the network halfway through season 3 (the show ended with season 6, as planned) specifically so they could plan out the plot for the remainder of the show. Then... the plot wasn't resolved properly.

@  tigerhawk : (18 June 2021 - 04:17 AM)

By then I had lost interest in arc TV shows, I followed a few and got the impression they were just making them up as they went along. Seemed to be a trend starting with new Galactica and Lost though in actuality began with The X Files and has become a trope called 'The Chris Carter Effect'.

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 02:12 AM)

I think it was season 3 part 1 specifically, since they had two separate plot "arcs" for season 3.

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 02:11 AM)

They threw everything in there, with no clear story structure, no clear stakes, and characters flip-flopping wherever the episode's writer needed them to go for their half-baked plot.

@  Nevermore : (18 June 2021 - 02:10 AM)

Season 3 was the worst, with a terrible meandering random events plot.

@  tigerhawk : (17 June 2021 - 11:59 PM)

'save the cheerleader' then in season 3 he tears her skull open, scans her power and she simply heals. They didn't think any of it through.

@  Shockwave 75 : (17 June 2021 - 07:04 PM)

Well, you know Hollywood; if something's popular, run it into the ground!

@  Cybersnark : (17 June 2021 - 04:40 PM)

And then there was the Writers' Strike, which isn't the show's fault.

@  Cybersnark : (17 June 2021 - 04:40 PM)

Yeah, Sylar should've been, if not killed off, at least left to rest.

@  Nevermore : (17 June 2021 - 03:43 PM)

It never truly recovered from that.

@  Nevermore : (17 June 2021 - 03:43 PM)

Season 1 was good until the finale.

@  Paladin : (17 June 2021 - 09:37 AM)

because it sucked.

@  tigerhawk : (17 June 2021 - 08:58 AM)

Heroes was cancelled twice.

@  Nevermore : (17 June 2021 - 06:33 AM)

The song's official name is "Holding Out for a Hero".

@  PlutoniumBoss : (17 June 2021 - 12:54 AM)

That's a long time to wait for a sandwich.

@  Maruten : (16 June 2021 - 07:13 PM)

Lucky there's a hero arriving in July.

@  Steevy Maximus : (16 June 2021 - 05:38 PM)

I think I've heard "I Need a Hero" more times this past week than I have in the past several years.

@  tigerhawk : (16 June 2021 - 12:41 PM)

Thanks to Earthrise I can recreate the end of Return of Optimus Prime part 1.

@  wonko the sane? : (16 June 2021 - 11:19 AM)

I wish they would do something like that here: but then it would become obvious in which provinces you're getting gouged.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 10:42 AM)

Here in Germany, the price you see is the price you pay, tax included.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 10:42 AM)

I always find it weaird hearing that stores in the US don't initially already taxes in their prices.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 04:33 AM)

You know what's kewl? Poor literacy.

@  wonko the sane? : (15 June 2021 - 04:31 PM)

Awesome, thanks for the heads up.

@  CORVUS : (15 June 2021 - 04:12 PM)

Kewl. Thanks!

@  Kalidor : (15 June 2021 - 02:08 PM)

Hey everybody! I wanted to announce that Sarahthecutevixen is our newest addition to the Allspark staff. She's primarily looking over discord stuff, but I wanted to make sure she got a welcome over here as well.

@  NovaSaber : (14 June 2021 - 11:07 AM)

Turn-Bass RPG

@  Sabrblade : (14 June 2021 - 10:21 AM)

Do not X0 quietly into the night.

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 June 2021 - 10:13 AM)

All your Bass are--

@  Donocropolis : (14 June 2021 - 05:56 AM)

*Bass X0 not available in Alaska or Hawaii.

@  Steevy Maximus : (13 June 2021 - 07:36 PM)

Get your own Big Mouth BassX0 for the low price of $19.95 (plusshippingandhandling)

@  repowers : (13 June 2021 - 12:45 PM)

Mr. Speaker, we are for the Bass X0.

@  Nevermore : (13 June 2021 - 06:04 AM)

It's all about that Bass XD.

@  tigerhawk : (13 June 2021 - 02:16 AM)

Will altering the moons orbit in any way help.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (13 June 2021 - 01:51 AM)

Now that you have seen this Bass XO, you must send it to five other Bass XOs or BassXO will come to you in a week and then you too will be BassXO.

@  Telly : (13 June 2021 - 12:08 AM)

or feed him after midnight

@  wonko the sane? : (12 June 2021 - 09:00 PM)

Just don't drop him.

@  Kaon : (12 June 2021 - 08:03 PM)

man this chat is nothing but Bass X)

@  Nevermore : (12 June 2021 - 07:08 PM)

Carefull, he is a Bass Xo.

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 June 2021 - 05:53 PM)

Aw, it's not even a shiny.

@  Sabrblade : (12 June 2021 - 05:27 PM)

A wild Bass X0 has appeared!

@  Bass X0 : (12 June 2021 - 05:20 PM)

I didn't even try this time.

@  Nevermore : (12 June 2021 - 03:43 AM)

8ass X÷ has hijacked this conversation.

@  Bass X0 : (12 June 2021 - 03:37 AM)

Its Bass X0. I named myself after my three favourite Mega Man characters - Bass, X and Zero. I did consider going with Vile Bass X0, but that would have been going too far.


Photo

Effing gender, how does it work?

gender sex performance mens purses identity

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180 replies to this topic

#1 Copper Bezel

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:31 PM

TL;DR: What does it feel like to be a boy or a girl and why do you care?

Does your gender matter to you, personally? How so and why? Some stuff about this has come up from time to time in Mayhem, but never really turned into much of a discussion. Recently, Destron shouted at me because I was wearing a purse, and curiosity struck.

My experience is this: I don't feel any dissonance with my sex, but I'm not particularly attached to it, either. I can imagine feeling dissonance with my body in several ways - obesity or deformity, etc. - but if I woke up one morning as a woman, I'd go to work, teach kids how to write stuff, come home, and play with my robot toys or sew something and post on Allspark and so on. There is something inherently gross about male anatomy to me, but I assume that that's a combination of not being attracted to it and a society that holds it as "dirty" somehow in contrast to feminine "purity" (a binary society uses to sell both sexes soap.) In any case, it doesn't seem to relate to gender identity.

 

I think I understand gender from an academic perspective, that it's a bunch of arbitrarily encoded performative cues subconsciously read and associated with biological sex and so on. Adding eyelashes and slimming up the limbs on an anthropomorphic cartoon dog makes it a girl dog. I give all my computers feminine names. But it almost seems like an aesthetic choice to me more than a part of identity. Overt gender bending is still coke in my coffee, but I like coke and coffee separately just fine. Otherwise, I really don't understand the subjective experience I see others respond to at all.

So what I don't get is, for instance, when I've had people respond weirdly to my carrying a purse, or when someone comments that something I've done was somehow feminine and expects me to be offended, and I end up feeling all weird and awkward for not playing the part. I mean, is it really unpleasant somehow for men to be perceived as feminine?

 

I know that someone will probably drop some Wikipedia links on me and we'll be done, but I'm curious to get some subjective perspectives on this from y'all's personal experience.

 

So, again, the short version, what does it feel like to be a boy or girl? = )

 

Edit: Typo.


Edited by Copper Bezel, 28 February 2014 - 09:48 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#2 Cabooceratops

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:43 PM

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I'm glad you brought it up. I'll write a more robust post later but I'm too tired now.


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#3 Cheetimus Primal

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:43 PM

Check out this episode of Keith and The Girl, one of the earliest and longest running podcasts on the net:
http://www.keithandt...Red-Button.aspx

 

In it Chemda (The Girl) and her fiance Lauren are discussing the documentary being made about them. Lauren is a trans man in that he identifies as male but has a woman's body... be he has no intention of changing his body. THe conversation is very interesting and covers some details I didn't know was an issue for trans persons.



#4 MrBlud

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:57 PM

I'm male because I have a penis.

 

Other than that I don't have any real attachment to the male sex per se. I watch MLP, love baking, and hate pretty much all forms of "sportball".

 

On the other hand I don't "feel" like I should be a woman. Or a man for that matter, I simply am what I am and it's never caused me any angst so I guess genetics didn't choose poorly :D


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#5 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:05 AM

If you can say "I'm not too attached to my gender," that probably means you're so comfortable with it that it occupies no conscious space in your mind. Meaning, you'd be put into shock by a change because you'd suddenly have to confront everything that had just been an assumed comfort until it was lost.

I like being male. I like being tall and having a deep voice. I like how, at basically the nadir of my life, I focused on one of the people who had hurt me and thought to myself that that person "hugged with the wrong guy" - and it gave me a sense of license to stand up for myself (which I did, and won).

#6 Glenn

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:15 AM

 I'm a male that enjoys being male with added bonus of having a sexuality that enjoys others that are male.

I'm 100% comfortable in my level of "maleness" that others' perception of it doesn't affect how male I feel.

Almost positive I have personality traits that can be ascribed as masculine and some as feminine, however none of these make me question my gender.

 

How does it work for others? Honestly couldn't tell you.



#7 Pennpenn

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:17 AM

If you can say "I'm not too attached to my gender," that probably means you're so comfortable with it that it occupies no conscious space in your mind. Meaning, you'd be put into shock by a change because you'd suddenly have to confront everything that had just been an assumed comfort until it was lost.


Or... they're just not attached to it. Sometimes if someone tells you it's a cigar, it's a cigar.

I like being male. I like being tall and having a deep voice. I like how, at basically the nadir of my life, I focused on one of the people who had hurt me and thought to myself that that person "hugged with the wrong guy" - and it gave me a sense of license to stand up for myself (which I did, and won).


Because those things are totally exclusively male features.

#8 2019

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:19 AM

I'm a woman, and as a lesbo I have masculine traits and have been called a tomboy.

 

But I'd never want to become a man in and of itself. There's been points where I've wished I was a guy so I'd appeal more to women as a partner, but not just to be a man. I find men's physical appearances to be sexually very unattractive. Which is kind of odd, because I like masculine traits like short hair and muscle definition and height in women.

 

Concerning gender, I think it's something that's developed from biological differences that, combined with culture, created a sort of social framework for how our two different flavours of humanity act. However over time, gender has become its own sort of, I guess, Persona, that we can use even if we don't qualify for the purely biological part.


if you can see this, i apologize for the above tweet, i was young and stupid and had nothing of value to say. please support lgbtq rights and listen to women's voices. that's all that really matters now. the right is evil, and should be opposed. thanks.


#9 Ashley

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:04 AM

I've gotten some "nice purse" comments at my messenger bag. I'm not really sure why shoulder bags are apparently a feminine thing.


Edited by Waspinator, 01 March 2014 - 01:04 AM.

If you can read this, you don't need glasses.

#10 TerraEsperZ

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:06 AM

I've also been reading a lot about gender recently thanks to a book suggestion from someone I can't remember. Hopefully I don't make a mistake and offend anyone since I'm still not that knowledgeable on the subject.

 

The truth is, this whole subject is a lot more complicated than it seems at first, ranging from your physical sex (which usually but not always matches your chromosomes), your gender (man, woman, queer, other)  which is a social construct and what society perceives you to be, your gender expression (how you express and live your gender), and probably other aspects I'm forgetting right now.

 

Me? Well, I'm male and a man. The male part (the genitals really) is important to me, but the man thing I could leave aside for all I care. I've never fit in well with other men and as I grew into an adult, I started taking pride in those things that most men around me would reject or mock (crying when I feel like it because something is really beautiful/sad, talking about my emotions, feeling disgusted with how men talk about women when they're not hearing, etc). Something else I've noticed recently is how... indifferent I've always felt about my body. It's not that I find it disgusting on account of being a straight male, but I've always felt awkward about it, like I'm carrying it around out of necessity. Yeah, I'm somewhat hairy all over, balding and a bit fat but even a perfect version of my body with more muscles, less fat, more hair on my head and less on my body, wouldn't make me like it more, just dislike it less.

 

On another front, I've only noticed recently for how long I've preferred female characters in books, comics, video games and movies. Not the stereotypical women the media feed us constantly who talk about nothing but men, fashion and shopping but emotionally strong, smart and adventurous women who sound like the women I meet on a daily basis. That's not to say that I've never liked some male heroes, but the average is clearly in favor of women. Also, if given the choice of gender while playing a videogame and if the women isn't penalized with worse stats or a stupid costume, I'll pick a women every time. And... I've always had a Mary Sue of sorts in my head; not an imaginary friend but rather, an imaginary "me" would could be all the things I'm not but I wish I could be. She's been around since I was 8 or 9 and she's always been a woman and yet, she was always just a female me with better social skills. It's not about wearing dresses, wearing makeup and falling in love with a man or however some people might understand it. It's just that, if I could magically become a women while remaining me, I would do it with little hesitation. Does that sound weird?

 

It's weird to talk about this with strangers and yet, I could never approach the subject with my friends or family. Don't get me wrong, they're great folks and I believe they'd love me no matter what but this whole thing feels like some sort of Pandora's Box just waiting to blow up in my face. There are questions about myself I'd rather not know the answers to, if only because then I'd have to act on it and I don't think I have the strength of will to go through a gender transition and all the mocking, pain and efforts that go with it. The fact is, I'm not miserable as a man, but I feel more and more that I'd be happier or at least, that I'd make "more sense" as a women. I can't really explain why, it's more or a vague feeling.

 

Can anyone here relate?



#11 Patch

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:46 AM

Let me share an interesting essay:  http://freethoughtbl...ull-hypothecis/

 

A main point that the author makes is that gender identity, as you experience yourself, is subjective.  If you're not confused about your gender identity, then, wonderful.  But if you are confused about your gender identity, trying to wring some objective proof out of your subjective experience is next to impossible.

 

I feel that people shouldn't be stigmatized for crossing "traditional" gender lines, whether it's a guy carrying a purse or a girl shaving her head, because sometimes you need to experiment with it to find out where you're most comfortable.  Everyone else can just butt out because it's none of their business.



#12 Cheetimus Primal

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:54 AM

Would that be considered bi-gendered?



#13 Copper Bezel

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:02 AM

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I'm glad you brought it up. I'll write a more robust post later but I'm too tired now.

Very cool - I'll look forward to that.
 

 

Check out this episode of Keith and The Girl, one of the earliest and longest running podcasts on the net ... THe conversation is very interesting and covers some details I didn't know was an issue for trans persons.

What stuck out to you? I'm a little stuck on the "phantom limb syndrome" stuff.

Thanks for the reference - it doesn't really hit on what I'm not getting about gender or being transgendered, but it was informative and entertaining in a lot of other ways. I'll be following Keith and the Girl now, certainly.
 

 

Or... they're just not attached to it. Sometimes if someone tells you it's a cigar, it's a cigar.

Well, that's a bit of what I want to find out, here. If I have, like Thylacine is saying, horrifying untrammeled assumptions at the core of my being, then I certainly want to know about it.
 

 

I've gotten some "nice purse" comments at my messenger bag. I'm not really sure why shoulder bags are apparently a feminine thing.

That was just the example that got me to ask about this, but yes, it is a very odd tradition. I used to carry a messenger bag for my computer, and long, boring story short, now I don't and carry a regular purse. There's nothing particularly feminine about it - it'd read as butch on a woman. 

 

I guess I brought it up as an example of an interaction that led to further questions, not as a thing related to gender in itself. I don't really think of myself as coding feminine by carrying a bag. My keys are sharp and pockets suck with that.
 

 

Can anyone here relate?

Yes. I thought that's what being male was, but then I noticed that other men don't respond that way.

What book are you reading? I'm interested - I want to get my terminology straight.

Nyarly mentioned personas, and that sounds right to me - I think of my gender as a persona. At the same time, like Thylacine said, I don't question it - the >60% of telephone conversations with people I don't know where the person on the other end calls me "ma'am," I don't hesitate to correct them positively with "it's sir, actually."

But yes, even a perfect male body (and probably a perfect female one) would be a very inaccurate and "heavy" representation of the persona I'm attempting to play out. That's dualist, of course, both because the brain is just a part of the body and because sex is in the brain as an organ, too, not just the body-minus-brain and the mind. But the subjective experience is that I'm playing a character, and given the choice, I'd rather be playing a female one, probably just because after thirty years, looking through the same set of eyes is getting boring, but the difference seems incidental, like having the wrong color of car.

And while my "thirty years" bit was a little flip, yes, I've always had a female persona that just feels like it's in storage somewhere. The only self-portraits I've ever drawn not for assignments were of that aspect, actually.

I do want all of the answers, though. After my bit with depression, I don't trust any of the sleeping dragons that make up the mental landscape I find myself on. I want all of them either tamed or dead by Tuesday if I can manage.

I definitely wouldn't think of myself as transgendered. I don't expect my body to be different, like the man in Cheets' podcast. I'm also definitely not attached to my genitals in any but the literal sense, though. Penises are disgusting.

 

 

 

Let me share an interesting essay:  http://freethoughtbl...ull-hypothecis/

 

Yeah, that's an interesting point, and I think it makes a lot of sense. I certainly don't think of myself as confused about my gender, but it's an aspect of the question I hadn't considered. And yeah, I certainly agree that the stigma shouldn't happen. I think - well, no, I thought until recently that it was all in fun because I couldn't really understand taking them seriously, but now I realize that some of the people reinforcing those stigmas seem to take them quite seriously, and it can strike some real nerves, too....


Edited by Copper Bezel, 01 March 2014 - 02:22 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#14 tec

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:18 AM

Fem Shep all the way Buffy over Angel Witchblade over Spiderman every single time

 

The choice to play or read or watch a good female Protaginest will always be my choice becase alot of the male characters can seem one dimetnal, are they all that way? no there can be some good male characters Decker from Blade Runner is a good example.

 

But the choice to follow the famale character can lead to some better results in story Heavy Rain,Beyond good and Evil, Primal are good exsamples of this

 

I could cop out and say I play them because they are pleaseing to my eye(witch is true in SOME games cases(DoA a prime exsample Im not gonna lie) But what about books and movies? Mirror Mask for example or Un-Lun Don,Howls Moveng castle they simply have better characters

 

Male Female these are persnal choices we make as we grow and learn there is no right or wrong anwser..well there shouldent be there should be a strong sence of you you are and what you want to become and not what some guy named Destron thinks of your messenger bag I bet who ever this Destron is likes the color purple and watches MLPFIM


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#15 Copper Bezel

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:25 AM

= ]

 

I wasn't offended, just caught off guard that it bothered him. But I agree that female protagonists have always interested me more, like there's just an extra layer there by default, and I could never tell if it was a matter of my being male and perceiving male gender as transparent, which removed an aspect - and yet at the same time, I also always wrote better female than male characters, the latter of which often felt like ciphers....


Edited by Copper Bezel, 01 March 2014 - 02:26 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#16 Automan2000

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:00 AM

I think the draw of a female protagonist is that ,as men, we have the curiosity to know what it would be like to experience the world as a woman. Doing so IRL would require a lot or medical procedures and in the end would be irreversible. So, by reading a story that is told from a female POV allows us to explore being a woman while also allowing us to effortlessly and safely return to our normal lives afterwards.

 

As far as gender goes I tend to separate it into gender and gender identity. Where gender is purely a biological state and gender identity is the psychological way that you view yourself. Gender identity is IMO the most important of the two because its a lot easier to change whats on the outside than on the inside. In fact, I don't think it would even be possible to change a person's gender identity. I hope that makes sense.. it's late and I'm tired so I am not sure I am firing on all cylinders.     



#17 Strafe

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:21 AM

Enjoying athletic contest isn't really a gender-specific trait, any more. I can testify to this. I love most sports, I enjoy cooking, and once in a while a movie will coax a tear or two out. I don't really believe in the non-physical traits that make someone "masculine" or "feminine". I think the world sucks to the point that you have to surround yourself with as many genuinely good people as you can, and you're not getting there being uptight and exclusionary. I enjoy the things that make us different. The things that make me different from the people in my life give me better understanding, I see only benefit in this. It's a pretty basic thing.

I like being a male, aaaaaaaand that's reinforced on a daily basis.


Edited by Strafe, 01 March 2014 - 08:43 AM.


#18 Rhinox

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:19 AM

I'm a man and I enjoy being one.  

I'm comfortable enough in my body to not think too much about it except that I wish it was a bit less fat.  Other than that, I'm a big man in height and stature and I take a level of pride in being the 'big man'.  

 

I don't know what it means to be male in the stereotypical way.  I will say that while I do not participate in the usual "male" domains like sports but I do take a healthy interest in competition.  I engage in what I'm told are the usual male esque power fantasies.  You know, the ones where I kill everyone whose presence offends, et al.  

 

 

I dunno, man.  I'm a guy, always been one.  Don't know really how to describe it except to say that I'm super aggressive and very standoffish which I'm told by others is very 'guy' of me.  


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#19 MrBlud

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:43 AM

Conversely I've never chosen to play as female when given the option.

 

And considering AFAIK it's almost the 100% same campaign, you're not really getting an accurate view of "experiencing the world as a woman" since the male and female perspectives are nowhere near that close in real life.

 

Using Mass Effect as an example. A female commander is going to have to put up with a lot more bullshit than a male one. From people openly questioning her qualifications to whispers she's only there because she's sleeping with Admiral Hackett.

 

None of that is really featured in the game. AFAIK anyway.


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#20 Glenn

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:22 AM

Most guys who plays as girls in game just do it so they can stare at a female ass all day.