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@  Otaku : (09 July 2020 - 07:47 AM)

@TheMightyMollusk Ah, but the series itself has pronounced "Bass" both ways. ;)  Oh, 90s English Capcom video game voice acting...

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 July 2020 - 03:14 AM)

Looking at my Titan Returns collection I can see they realised they didn't have to paint the Titan Masters after wave one, lazy bums.

@  Maruten : (08 July 2020 - 09:13 PM)

No, I'm going with "fish".

@  TheMightyMol... : (08 July 2020 - 04:19 PM)

He stated that it's in reference to the Mega Man character, so it follows the series' tradition of music names.

@  Cybersnark : (08 July 2020 - 03:59 PM)

The real question is if it's "bass" as in music or "bass" as in the fish.

@  Otaku : (08 July 2020 - 01:27 PM)

Well, at least now I know how to pronounce @Bass X0 's screen name. ^^'  Rather, I think I'd just forgotten.  In my defense, it really does look like an emoticon or maybe just "decoration", which is what a lot of folks add to their screen names online.  Usually because someone has the name they really want. XD

@  ▲ndrusi : (08 July 2020 - 01:27 PM)

Extremely unimpressed with your idea that someone making a negative observation you don't like means they "got triggered."

@  NotVeryKnightly : (08 July 2020 - 11:16 AM)

You know somebody asked "And this would be in relation to... what exactly?"

@  Bass X0 : (08 July 2020 - 11:15 AM)

Its because someone got triggered over my random musings instead of just ignoring them. If I read one of your comments that is of no relevance or interest to me, I don't feel the need to say so.

@  -LittleAutob... : (08 July 2020 - 10:56 AM)

All this over someone's username lol

@  ▲ndrusi : (08 July 2020 - 08:34 AM)

Bazro.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (08 July 2020 - 06:34 AM)

It could be Bass 10-0

@  Nevermore : (08 July 2020 - 06:11 AM)

How do you pronounce yourself? "Bass Ex-O" or "Bass Ex-Zero"?

@  Bass X0 : (08 July 2020 - 03:23 AM)

I did almost go with Vile Bass X0, because Vile is cool too.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (07 July 2020 - 08:34 PM)

Bossk Saw

@  ▲ndrusi : (07 July 2020 - 04:16 PM)

Bass XD

@  Bass X0 : (07 July 2020 - 03:43 PM)

And its not Bass XO, its Bass X0, as in Bass, X and Zero from the Mega Man series.

@  -LittleAutob... : (07 July 2020 - 02:33 PM)

@Trpodeca :( :(

@  -LittleAutob... : (07 July 2020 - 02:32 PM)

Thats what a gray rock is? Then I'm not one.

@  Trpodeca : (07 July 2020 - 02:12 PM)

Man I just learnt about what seemed like a really cool show, only to realize it was a dream and it dosen't really exist.

@  Bass X0 : (07 July 2020 - 01:02 PM)

Just something I read that I wanted to share. I heard "gray rock" mentioned in a video, so I looked it up and that was the definition.

@  TheMightyMol... : (07 July 2020 - 12:20 PM)

It's a fancy way of saying "Ignore annoying people".

@  NotVeryKnightly : (07 July 2020 - 12:15 PM)

Bass XO has a habit of pasting random drivel here as if doing so were profound.

@  wonko the sane? : (07 July 2020 - 11:30 AM)

And this would be in relation to... what exactly?

@  Bass X0 : (07 July 2020 - 11:25 AM)

"One strategy for dealing with a narcissist or sociopath is to act like a "gray rock," meaning that you become uninteresting and unresponsive. You don't feed their needs for drama or attention. You don't show emotion, say anything interesting, or disclose any personal information"

@  Nevermore : (06 July 2020 - 07:23 PM)

Oh wow. Studio Series Offroad Bumblebee is awesome. His articulation is amazing.

@  -LittleAutob... : (06 July 2020 - 11:18 AM)

Oof-

@  Maximus Ambus : (05 July 2020 - 01:10 AM)

I got Studio Series 39 Cogman yesterday and woke up to find he'd decapitated my titans returns figures.

@  wonko the sane? : (04 July 2020 - 10:19 PM)

If I had a sarcasm powered mouth.. ooohh waaaiiittt...

@  -LittleAutob... : (04 July 2020 - 05:01 PM)

Heh

@  Bass X0 : (04 July 2020 - 02:56 PM)

"If I had sarcasm-powered legs, I'd do a happy dance...!"

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 July 2020 - 02:39 PM)

The real clones were the friends we made along the way.

@  Maximus Ambus : (04 July 2020 - 01:47 PM)

So the Emperor in episodes 1 through 6 was a clone?

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 July 2020 - 10:47 AM)

(And the 0th anniversary of the last time I couldn't do math.)

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 July 2020 - 10:46 AM)

Today is the 24th anniversary of the day we fought off an alien invasion with the help of Will Smith.

@  Maximus Ambus : (04 July 2020 - 10:41 AM)

Oh the end of the Ottoman Empire of course.

@  -LittleAutob... : (04 July 2020 - 10:14 AM)

*ahem* 4th of July....

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 July 2020 - 08:14 AM)

Nothing of importance has happened before, and nothing of importance will happen again.

@  Maximus Ambus : (04 July 2020 - 08:12 AM)

Nothing of importance happened today.

@  Telly : (03 July 2020 - 09:54 PM)

i want a "i survived 'rona and all i got was this lousy t-shirt"

@  TheMightyMol... : (03 July 2020 - 03:42 PM)

Slogan for 2021: "I Lived, Bitch."

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 July 2020 - 03:23 PM)

They should make the next book in the Survivors series 'I SURVIVED CORONA VIRUS 2020'

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 July 2020 - 03:23 PM)

YEEEE I'M A SURVIVOR-

@  Nevermore : (03 July 2020 - 06:59 AM)

Probably gonna assemble Devastator after work.

@  Nevermore : (03 July 2020 - 06:58 AM)

Ooooh. Overload arrived. He's surprisingly fun.

@  Bass X0 : (02 July 2020 - 04:00 PM)

He's sweeter than the average bear.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 July 2020 - 03:14 PM)

Convert him to Maple Syrup.

@  Bass X0 : (02 July 2020 - 03:10 PM)

what would Canada do with Yogi?

@  Cyoti : (01 July 2020 - 12:51 PM)

We can deport Yogi back to Canada now.

@  Sabrblade : (01 July 2020 - 12:50 PM)

Jellystone National Pawk. A westful wetweat.


Photo

Hyrule town square:Legend of Zelda: Links Awakeing and BotW2


1231 replies to this topic

#1221 Ironbite

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 06:47 PM


xC9l3eY.gif


#1222 Sabrblade

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 11:13 PM

Lemme see if I can try to simplify what I wrote before to make it easier to understand, but bear in mind that we are dealing with a lot of games, here.

 

 

The Legend of Zelda - the first game, introduces Ganon

Zelda 1

 

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link - direct sequel to Zelda 1

Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

A Link to the Past - prequel to Zelda 1, first mention of Ganon's original form named Ganondorf

ALttP --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

Link's Awakening - side-story sequel to ALttP, set before Zelda 1

ALttP --> LA --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

Ocarina of Time - prequel to ALttP via its Child Ending, tells the origin of the Ganondorf who goes on to become the Ganon of ALttP

OoT --> ALttP --> LA --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

Majora's Mask - side-story sequel to OoT, can still fit before ALttP

OoT --> MM --> ALttP --> LA --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

Oracle of Seasons/Oracle of Ages - vaguely set after a death of Ganon, later games will suggest these two to fit best after LA but still before Zelda 1

OoT --> MM --> ALttP --> LA --> Oracle games --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

Four Swords - said by Nintendo to be the earliest game in the timeline at the time, so preceding OoT

FS --> OoT --> MM --> ALttP --> LA --> Oracle games --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

The Wind Waker - the start of a splinter timeline from OoT's Adult Ending that's been ignored up to this point, the main timeline is unaffected

OoT --> TWW

 

Four Swords Adventures - sequel to FS and features a Ganon who used to be Ganondorf, can slot in between MM and ALttP with ease

FS --> OoT --> MM --> FSA --> ALttP --> LA --> Oracle games --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

The Minish Cap - prequel to FS

TMC --> FS --> OoT --> MM --> FSA --> ALttP --> LA --> Oracle games --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

Twilight Princess - This is the problematic game, as it is so obviously meant to be another follow-up to both OoT and MM, but cannot possibly fit in anywhere in the timeline established so far since Ganondorf dies at the end of this game, when the entire point of OoT was to show what the Ganondorf first mentioned in ALttP was like before he becomes Ganon prior to that same game. Yet, with this game, there is no way to reconcile its ending with the events that are supposed to lead up to ALttP.

 

Basically, the portion of the timeline from OoT to ALttP can be considered the "Ganondorf era". He isn't around before that point (the "pre-Ganondorf era"), and he's only ever Ganon after (the "Ganon era"). With TP having him as Ganondorf, it would have to go in this portion of the timeline, but it doesn't work since he dies at the end when he's supposed to go on to become the Ganon of ALttP. Hyrule Historia tried to make a second Ganondorf out of the one from FSA, but that's just a whole other can of worms on top of this one.

 

At present, there is no game that exists in which Ganondorf, not Ganon, gets resurrected from a previous death. Breath of the Wild's sequel may change that, but both that game and BotW are meant to be at the very end of everything, so those games would take place after the Ganon era. Yet, I get the feeling that BotW2 may instead retcon BotW to specifically being a direct follow-up to TP with how the Ganondorf corpse in BotW2 seems like it might be the same Ganondorf who died in TP, instead ignoring the whole "Ganon era" entirely since those games are presently viewed as part of a completely different timeline branch altogether.

 

 

Meanwhile, all the games released after Twilight Princess, up to Breath of the Wild, can still fit just fine in the established chronologies:

 

Phantom Hourglass - sequel to TWW, so it's a part of the splinter timeline, the main timeline is unaffected

OoT --> TWW --> PH

 

Spirit Tracks - another follow-up to TWW set after PH, so it's part of the splinter timeline, the main timeline is unaffected

OoT --> TWW --> PH --> ST

 

Skyward Sword - made to be the beginning game of the timeline, so it precedes TMC

SS --> TMC --> FS --> OoT --> MM --> FSA --> ALttP --> LA --> Oracle games --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

A Link Between Worlds - sequel to ALttP centuries later, the Triforce being split also makes it feel set after the Oracle games but still before Zelda 1

SS --> TMC --> FS --> OoT --> MM --> FSA --> ALttP --> LA --> Oracle games --> ALBW --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

Tri Force Heroes - Nintendo says it's the same Link from ALBW, so it's another side-story sequel but also set before Zelda 1

SS --> TMC --> FS --> OoT --> MM --> FSA --> ALttP --> LA --> Oracle games --> ALBW --> TFH --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

 

Breath of the Wild - meant to be after the end of everything, so it would be the first game set after Zelda 2

SS --> TMC --> FS --> OoT --> MM --> FSA --> ALttP --> LA --> Oracle games --> ALBW --> TFH --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2 --> BotW

 

Breath of the Wild's sequel - as noted above, this game may become the second one to not mesh with the above timeline due to the alleged influence that the events of TP may have on its story.


Edited by Sabrblade, 15 June 2020 - 11:59 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#1223 Glenn

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:39 AM

Where as I'm all like 'who needs a timeline.. cause parallel universes are a thing'

#1224 Blot

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:15 PM

I gave up on a timeline around the time Wind Waker ruined any chance of a sensible one and realized around Minish Cap they were only going to make unnecessary prequels to answer questions nobody ever asked.



#1225 Sjogre

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 10:51 PM

Ocarina of Time - prequel to ALttP via its Child Ending, tells the origin of the Ganondorf who goes on to become the Ganon of ALttP
OoT --> ALttP --> LA --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

This is what I don't get; why are you insisting that the child timeline is the one that has to lead to ALttPA Link to the Past established that Ganon was sealed into the Sacred Realm during the course of a war, which has never happened onscreen in any game.  The child and the adult timelines of OoT are equally capable of preceding ALttP, because neither directly sets it up.

 

And the official story is that A Link to the Past comes from a third timeline, where Link fails.  Which explains why an army was needed instead of using the one guy, and the hyrulian sages in that game kinda implied that the set of Sages that Link collected were killed by Ganon before sealing him or having children.

 

Oh, and the adult timeline of Ocarina is the one where we see Ganon actually transform into the pig-man  Take that as you will.
 

Twilight Princess - This is the problematic game, as it is so obviously meant to be another follow-up to both OoT and MM, but cannot possibly fit in anywhere in the timeline established so far since Ganondorf dies at the end of this game, when the entire point of OoT was to show what the Ganondorf first mentioned in ALttP was like before he becomes Ganon prior to that same game. Yet, with this game, there is no way to reconcile its ending with the events that are supposed to lead up to ALttP.
 
Basically, the portion of the timeline from OoT to ALttP can be considered the "Ganondorf era". He isn't around before that point (the "pre-Ganondorf era"), and he's only ever Ganon after (the "Ganon era"). With TP having him as Ganondorf, it would have to go in this portion of the timeline, but it doesn't work since he dies at the end when he's supposed to go on to become the Ganon of ALttP. Hyrule Historia tried to make a second Ganondorf out of the one from FSA, but that's just a whole other can of worms on top of this one.
 
At present, there is no game that exists in which Ganondorf, not Ganon, gets resurrected from a previous death. Breath of the Wild's sequel may change that, but both that game and BotW are meant to be at the very end of everything, so those games would take place after the Ganon era. Yet, I get the feeling that BotW2 may instead retcon BotW to specifically being a direct follow-up to TP with how the Ganondorf corpse in BotW2 seems like it might be the same Ganondorf who died in TP, instead ignoring the whole "Ganon era" entirely since those games are presently viewed as part of a completely different timeline branch altogether.

If Wind Waker takes place in the adult timeline, and Ganon never turns human (well, gerudo) again after transforming, why does it feature a distinctly non-porcine Ganon?

 

While some fans specify the pig as Ganon and the human(ish) form as Ganondorf, that doesn't seem to be a meaningful distinction within the story.  From the games, Ganon seems to be able to switch back and forth at will, and other characters call him by whatever name regardless of form.  The King of Hyrule calls him Ganon throughout Wind Waker despite staying in gerudo form the entire time.


Unfortunately, fools are often planproof.

#1226 Sabrblade

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 12:03 AM

 

Ocarina of Time - prequel to ALttP via its Child Ending, tells the origin of the Ganondorf who goes on to become the Ganon of ALttP
OoT --> ALttP --> LA --> Zelda 1 --> Zelda 2

This is what I don't get; why are you insisting that the child timeline is the one that has to lead to ALttPA Link to the Past established that Ganon was sealed into the Sacred Realm during the course of a war, which has never happened onscreen in any game.  The child and the adult timelines of OoT are equally capable of preceding ALttP, because neither directly sets it up.

Allow me to explain.
 
Going by the original text of the ALttP prologue, the events that led up to the beginning of that game are incompatible with the Adult Ending of OoT, whereas the Child Ending doesn't contradict anything in the prologue because that ending takes place at a point prior to when Ganondorf ever does anything drastic to the kingdom, and is left open-ended from that point onward.
 
In the ALttP prologue, as given by original text of the game's manual (most specifically, the Japanese version of this text), Ganondorf is said to have led a band of thieves in search for the entrance to the Sacred Realm, and that he and his group managed to find the entrance and open it quite by happenstance. Once inside the Sacred Realm, upon gazing at the Triforce, the brigands began to fight each other until Ganondorf was the last one standing. He touched the Triforce and made his wish, acquiring the complete Triforce right then and there, and becoming the King of Evil, Ganon.
 
From within the Sacred Realm, Ganon remained there indefinitely (as in-game dialogue states that he couldn't get out of the Sacred Realm once he got inside it) and began to pour out his malice across the land of Hyrule. As his evil power spread towards the castle, the still-living king called for the Seven Sages and the knights to help protect the kingdom and find a way to seal away the source of the evil power. While the Sages searched for the Master Sword (as this was before OoT established its residing within the Temple of Time) and a hero to wield it (which ties nicely into the fact that Link left Hyrule after OoT during MM, meaning a new hero was needed by this point), Ganon's evil power began to close in on the castle. As the situation became too urgent to keep looking for the sword and the hero, the knights fought valiantly to the very end until the Sages could seal away the entrance to the Sacred Realm with Ganon still inside it, thus bringing an end to the Seal War (Japanese name of the Imprisoning War).
 
With OoT's Child Ending being as open ended as it is, all of the above could have still happened in the years following that ending. All that would need to happen in the meantime is for Ganondorf to retreat and lay low for a while after Link exposed his treasonous ambitions to Zelda and her father. Ganondorf would have to quietly bide his time until such a point when he could to acquire some more followers and form his new band of thieves that he would lead in search of the Sacred Realm's entrance, now that the Temple of Time would be completely out of his reach due to his newfound status as a wanted criminal.

 

The Master Sword would also need to be moved and hidden away since it resides within the Lost Woods during ALttP. In fact, if the sword is the key to opening the Sacred Realm, perhaps that's both why it was moved in the first place and also why a different entrance to the Sacred Realm would been to be searched for, since the realm would no longer be accessible from the Temple of Time due to the Master Sword having been relocated from there to its hiding place in the Lost Woods. And as mentioned above, the lack of a hero needed to wield the sword's power would be due to Link having left Hyrule after OoT to partake in the events of Majora's Mask.

 

The events of the game's Adult story, however, are completely at odds with the above events. In OoT, Ganondorf does not lead a band of thieves in search of the Sacred Realm's entrance since he already knows that said entrance is behind the Door of Time inside the Temple of Time. He does not open the entrance "by chance", he specifically orchestrates all of the events that lead to the young Link opening it for him. When he enters the Sacred Realm, he does not get the complete Triforce but instead only gets the Triforce of Power. After that, he comes back out of the Sacred Realm to rule Hyrule as its new king, seemingly murdering the rightful king, Zelda's father, off-screen, instead of staying inside the Sacred Realm as his primary base of operations the whole time, never killing the king until long after the Imprisoning War when he uses Agahnim to usurp the throne. And of course, he does not become Ganon until the very end of the Adult storyline instead of becoming Ganon and staying as Ganon when he first gets the Triforce inside the Sacred Realm.
 

 

And the official story is that A Link to the Past comes from a third timeline, where Link fails.  Which explains why an army was needed instead of using the one guy, and the hyrulian sages in that game kinda implied that the set of Sages that Link collected were killed by Ganon before sealing him or having children.

Yes, that is a retcon that Hyrule Historia came up with to try to force ALttP into fitting with OoT's Adult storyline, when it does not fit on its own as described above. And, in order to make said retcon work, the book had to come up with an entirely different backstory for the Imprisoning War that likewise contradicted the original backstory given in the game's instruction manual.

 

And that's not even getting into the fact that this third branch wants us to play OoT in the wrong way (as in, to play the game all the way up to the end and then deliberately lose the Ganondorf boss battle) in order for it to even happen.
 

 

Oh, and the adult timeline of Ocarina is the one where we see Ganon actually transform into the pig-man  Take that as you will.

Which is only temporary since he reverts right back to his Gerudo form immediately after being defeated (when the game is played correctly, that is).
 

 

 

Twilight Princess - This is the problematic game, as it is so obviously meant to be another follow-up to both OoT and MM, but cannot possibly fit in anywhere in the timeline established so far since Ganondorf dies at the end of this game, when the entire point of OoT was to show what the Ganondorf first mentioned in ALttP was like before he becomes Ganon prior to that same game. Yet, with this game, there is no way to reconcile its ending with the events that are supposed to lead up to ALttP.
 
Basically, the portion of the timeline from OoT to ALttP can be considered the "Ganondorf era". He isn't around before that point (the "pre-Ganondorf era"), and he's only ever Ganon after (the "Ganon era"). With TP having him as Ganondorf, it would have to go in this portion of the timeline, but it doesn't work since he dies at the end when he's supposed to go on to become the Ganon of ALttP. Hyrule Historia tried to make a second Ganondorf out of the one from FSA, but that's just a whole other can of worms on top of this one.
 
At present, there is no game that exists in which Ganondorf, not Ganon, gets resurrected from a previous death. Breath of the Wild's sequel may change that, but both that game and BotW are meant to be at the very end of everything, so those games would take place after the Ganon era. Yet, I get the feeling that BotW2 may instead retcon BotW to specifically being a direct follow-up to TP with how the Ganondorf corpse in BotW2 seems like it might be the same Ganondorf who died in TP, instead ignoring the whole "Ganon era" entirely since those games are presently viewed as part of a completely different timeline branch altogether.

If Wind Waker takes place in the adult timeline, and Ganon never turns human (well, gerudo) again after transforming, why does it feature a distinctly non-porcine Ganon?

Like I said, he reverts right back into his Gerudo form upon being defeated by Link.

 

And while TWW's prologue showed a monstrous Ganon emerging from the Sacred Realm to terrorize Hyrule, TP later revealed that Ganondorf, while in the possession of the Triforce of Power (as he was in both TWW and TP) has the ability to willingly switch back and forth between his Gerudo and Beast forms, so it stands to reason that TWW's Ganondorf could do this too, turning back into Beast Ganon when he first got out of the Sacred Realm, but later opting to stay in his Gerudo form over his many years of self-reflection.

 

 

While some fans specify the pig as Ganon and the human(ish) form as Ganondorf, that doesn't seem to be a meaningful distinction within the story.  From the games, Ganon seems to be able to switch back and forth at will, and other characters call him by whatever name regardless of form.  The King of Hyrule calls him Ganon throughout Wind Waker despite staying in gerudo form the entire time.

The difference mainly stems from how, in the 2D games, he never reverts back to his Gerudo form, only ever remaining in his pig Ganon form. It's mostly just a means of convenience when discussing the two forms of his by using "Ganondorf" to refer to his Gerudo form and "Ganon" for his pig/beast form. However, in OoT specifically, the boss name captions for him read as "Great King of Evil: Ganondorf" for his Gerudo form and "Ganon" for his beast form.

 

As for the King in TWW only ever calling him just "Ganon", perhaps his Gerudo name had been lost to the ages and by the time of that king's rule, he was only ever known as "Ganon", historically, while we the player know of his other name. Helping this matter is the notion of his having emerged from the Sacred Realm in his beast form, as is depicted in the game's prologue, so maybe that name gained more traction and infamy as Ganondorf initially used his beast form before eventually switching back.


Edited by Sabrblade, 16 June 2020 - 09:37 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#1227 Blot

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 01:10 AM

Hyrule Warriors is the Imprisoning War.  



#1228 Sjogre

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 09:00 PM

Last I checked, Hyrule Warriors was it's own thing and not in-continuity with the non-Warriors games.

Being a different continuity has it's advantages, as the debates about the timeline show.
 

Allow me to explain.
 
Going by the original text of the ALttP prologue, the events that led up to the beginning of that game are incompatible with the Adult Ending of OoT, whereas the Child Ending doesn't contradict anything in the prologue because that ending takes place at a point prior to when Ganondorf ever does anything drastic to the kingdom, and is left open-ended from that point onward.
 
In the ALttP prologue, as given by original text of the game's manual (most specifically, the Japanese version of this text), Ganondorf is said to have led a band of thieves in search for the entrance to the Sacred Realm, and that he and his group managed to find the entrance and open it quite by happenstance. Once inside the Sacred Realm, upon gazing at the Triforce, the brigands began to fight each other until Ganondorf was the last one standing. He touched the Triforce and made his wish, acquiring the complete Triforce right then and there, and becoming the King of Evil, Ganon.
 
From within the Sacred Realm, Ganon remained there indefinitely (as in-game dialogue states that he couldn't get out of the Sacred Realm once he got inside it) and began to pour out his malice across the land of Hyrule. As his evil power spread towards the castle, the still-living king called for the Seven Sages and the knights to help protect the kingdom and find a way to seal away the source of the evil power. While the Sages searched for the Master Sword (as this was before OoT established its residing within the Temple of Time) and a hero to wield it (which ties nicely into the fact that Link left Hyrule after OoT during MM, meaning a new hero was needed by this point), Ganon's evil power began to close in on the castle. As the situation became too urgent to keep looking for the sword and the hero, the knights fought valiantly to the very end until the Sages could seal away the entrance to the Sacred Realm with Ganon still inside it, thus bringing an end to the Seal War (Japanese name of the Imprisoning War).
 
With OoT's Child Ending being as open ended as it is, all of the above could have still happened in the years following that ending. All that would need to happen in the meantime is for Ganondorf to retreat and lay low for a while after Link exposed his treasonous ambitions to Zelda and her father. Ganondorf would have to quietly bide his time until such a point when he could to acquire some more followers and form his new band of thieves that he would lead in search of the Sacred Realm's entrance, now that the Temple of Time would be completely out of his reach due to his newfound status as a wanted criminal.
 
The Master Sword would also need to be moved and hidden away since it resides within the Lost Woods during ALttP. In fact, if the sword is the key to opening the Sacred Realm, perhaps that's both why it was moved in the first place and also why a different entrance to the Sacred Realm would been to be searched for, since the realm would no longer be accessible from the Temple of Time due to the Master Sword having been relocated from there to its hiding place in the Lost Woods. And as mentioned above, the lack of a hero needed to wield the sword's power would be due to Link having left Hyrule after OoT to partake in the events of Majora's Mask.
 
The events of the game's Adult story, however, are completely at odds with the above events. In OoT, Ganondorf does not lead a band of thieves in search of the Sacred Realm's entrance since he already knows that said entrance is behind the Door of Time inside the Temple of Time. He does not open the entrance "by chance", he specifically orchestrates all of the events that lead to the young Link opening it for him. When he enters the Sacred Realm, he does not get the complete Triforce but instead only gets the Triforce of Power. After that, he comes back out of the Sacred Realm to rule Hyrule as its new king, seemingly murdering the rightful king, Zelda's father, off-screen, instead of staying inside the Sacred Realm as his primary base of operations the whole time, never killing the king until long after the Imprisoning War when he uses Agahnim to usurp the throne. And of course, he does not become Ganon until the very end of the Adult storyline instead of becoming Ganon and staying as Ganon when he first gets the Triforce inside the Sacred Realm.

 
Ganon is the leader of the Gerudo thieves in Ocarina. Calling an entire civilization thieves is kinda insulting, but you can't say that he didn't have a crew.

Anyway, you are basing all of this on treating a game manual as a stronger canon source than everything that came later. I find this argument flawed, at best. Partly because the story in the manual is written like an in-universe legend, and therefore not necessarily accurate, but also because Nintendo doesn't have to stick with it. Just look at the legend of the Master Sword from the manual versus the actual events surrounding it's creation. It could be generously described as inaccurate, but straight-up wrong seems a more truthful way of putting it.

In short, games beat manuals.

 

...How the heck is Ganondorf supposed to just run off after being accused of treason in Hyrule Castle?  Say what you will about Twilight Princess, but being capturing and executed is more likely than just exiting stage left at that point.
 
 

Yes, that is a retcon that Hyrule Historia came up with to try to force ALttP into fitting with OoT's Adult storyline, when it does not fit on its own as described above. And, in order to make said retcon work, the book had to come up with an entirely different backstory for the Imprisoning War that likewise contradicted the original backstory given in the game's instruction manual.
 
And that's not even getting into the fact that this third branch wants us to play OoT in the wrong way (as in, to play the game all the way up to the end and then deliberately lose the Ganondorf boss battle) in order for it to even happen.

Deliberately lose? Ocarina isn't a hard game, but I wouldn't say that failing to win requires the player to take a deliberate fall, either.

I have no idea of why I should consider this a meaningful objection. It's continuing from a bad end. The Imprisoning War always required an off-screen failure to happen in the first place. Heck, same for Wind Waker.  And Breath of the Wild, which...  Okay, was technically on-screen, but still required the heroes to fail.
 
 

The difference mainly stems from how, in the 2D games, he never reverts back to his Gerudo form, only ever remaining in his pig Ganon form. It's mostly just a means of convenience when discussing the two forms of his by using "Ganondorf" to refer to his Gerudo form and "Ganon" for his pig/beast form. However, in OoT specifically, the boss name captions for him read as "Great King of Evil: Ganondorf" for his Gerudo form and "Ganon" for his beast form.
 
As for the King in TWW only ever calling him just "Ganon", perhaps his Gerudo name had been lost to the ages and by the time of that king's rule, he was only ever known as "Ganon", historically, while we the player know of his other name. Helping this matter is the notion of his having emerged from the Sacred Realm in his beast form, as is depicted in the game's prologue, so maybe that name gained more traction and infamy as Ganondorf initially used his beast form before eventually switching back.

 
  
Yeah, you're not really convincing me that there's a meaningful story distinction between the long and short forms of his name.  With him able to just switch back and forth, how do you know whether they're talking about the pig or the man?

 

I always figured that he never turned back in the Downfall timeline because he never had a reason to do so.  Why take his weaker form when he's here to conquer?


Unfortunately, fools are often planproof.

#1229 Blot

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 09:43 PM

They also said Triforce Heroes is canon so I have little interest in what the "official" stance on Zelda lore is.



#1230 Glenn

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 06:01 AM

But you've all left out the most important game of all in your timelines... where does Link's Crossbow Training fit in??

(I'm kidding of course, it's totally a side quest of TP)

#1231 TheMightyMollusk

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 06:29 AM

But what about Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland?



#1232 Sabrblade

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:12 PM

This is just... surreal!

 


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.



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