27 replies to this topic

[Dvandom]

City of Titans, the fan-run game intended to be a successor to City of Heroes.

Several of the people involved in running this are long-time friends of mine, so I trust that this is an honest attempt by people with at least some clue how the industry works.

---Dave

Edited by Dvandom, 03 August 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[Devcon]

Was about to post this myself. Been following this for a while, hoping that they reach the goal.

[skankerzero]

Lots of smoke and mirrors in that video.

Good on them though for getting as far as they have, though 320,000 is very, very, VERY little for what you need to create an MMO. Especially after reading that after paying the fees for everything, it's only 180,000.

I see this going no where if they can make their goal.

[Rust]

I want Phoenix Project to succeed, but the Kickstarter goal indicates what I've long feared - ignorance of what it takes to build something as complex as a MMO from the ground up. Plus it's assuming the Volunteers will remain Volunteers as the project reaches completion. I foresee a lot of legal fights in the future if the game is successful to the point it's banking rather then simply covering operational costs because the question then becomes who gets the money?

I miss City of Heroes dearly, and Phoenix Project is a lot more down to earth then it's counterpart - Heroes and Villains - in terms of operational realities, but they're still really lowballing the price tag and the final name for the project just feels really uninspired, to boot.

I really, really hope they can make this game a reality but there's still so much work to do.

Edited by Rust, 02 October 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[Dvandom]

If you read the whole page, this is basically a "get it far enough to start selling subscriptions" kickstarter. They plan for it to be self-supporting once it gets going, but the kickstarter is to cover basic startup (license the Unreal engine, get software to let them get the work done by 2015 instead of by 2020). There are gaming industry veterans involved, they're not ignorant of the costs involved. They're simply not trying to kickstart the entire cost.

---Dave

[skankerzero]

yeah...

I'm curious who the industry vets are and their experience. The only ones I saw that had 'experience' on their page looked like members of the community or QA department. If they honestly had veterans, then that should be a selling point on their page.

Any vet worth their salt wouldn't start with the Cry Engine for an MMO.

Also, 180K for software like 3d max is not right either. A single license for Max is roughly 3,700. 180k will buy you 50 seats. That's not unreasonable for an MMO sized team, but still, this doesn't seem right to me. All your money should go to programmers and servers if you're making an MMO.

Plus, what does 'get it far enough to start selling subscriptions' mean? To me that would mean there would have to be a demo at least. A demo would have to have major systems completed. After that it's all about building content. That's where you're subscription money will go.

[Dvandom]

That $180,000 is mostly going straight to software.

Autodesk's Maya and 3DS Max. They’re not cheap, and we need them to do the work. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses, and we need at least 24 copies for the art and tech teams to be able to do their jobs. There are several different versions, each targeting different levels of needs, and the 24 total copies are split between the various members to their need, based on the tasks they have.

We’ll need multiple copies of a few tools like zbrush, Allegorithmic, 8DIO, Photoshop and Illustrator.

Then we have the costs for the website servers and bandwidth. The more you love us, the more expensive it’s going to get.

And, finally, a little cash to put a tax lawyer, book keeper and legal professional on retainer. Purely fee for service, but they will pay for themselves in troubles solved and money saved.

There are a few smaller items, such as RAM for some rendering, some 3D mice, drawing tablets, depending on individual artist needs.

It's not $180K for 3DMax alone. There's also Autodesk, no clue how expensive that is, but they say it's not cheap. They're looking for 24 sets of software, because that's how many people they have working on stuff.

---Dave

Edited by Dvandom, 02 October 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[skankerzero]

That $180,000 is mostly going straight to software.

Autodesk's Maya and 3DS Max. They?re not cheap, and we need them to do the work. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses, and we need at least 24 copies for the art and tech teams to be able to do their jobs. There are several different versions, each targeting different levels of needs, and the 24 total copies are split between the various members to their need, based on the tasks they have.

We?ll need multiple copies of a few tools like zbrush, Allegorithmic, 8DIO, Photoshop and Illustrator.

Then we have the costs for the website servers and bandwidth. The more you love us, the more expensive it?s going to get.

And, finally, a little cash to put a tax lawyer, book keeper and legal professional on retainer. Purely fee for service, but they will pay for themselves in troubles solved and money saved.

There are a few smaller items, such as RAM for some rendering, some 3D mice, drawing tablets, depending on individual artist needs.

It's not $180K for 3DMax alone. There's also Autodesk, no clue how expensive that is, but they say it's not cheap. They're looking for 24 sets of software, because that's how many people they have working on stuff.

---Dave

Autodesk makes 3d max...

[Rust]

Ultimately, it's a blue sky project whose primary selling point is people who badly want City of Heroes back.

I'm one of those people, but even I know that's not the way you make a game.

[Teufel]

I was pretty excited about this until I read through the Kickstarter page and found a surprising lack of details on features. I mean... are they just pitching it from the standpoint that they're going to ape City of Heroes/Villains and that's all we need to know? I'd like to back this, but as is I'm going to just wait until 2015.

[Rust]

I mean... are they just pitching it from the standpoint that they're going to ape City of Heroes/Villains and that's all we need to know?

That's not a bug - it's a feature.

Both City of Titans and Heroes and Villains aren't trying to break the mold here. They were both started with the intent of recreating City of Heroes as close as possible without warranting legal action from NCSoft.

[Teufel]

I suppose as someone who found City of Villains unnecessary and lost interest in City of Heroes in general after several months of regular play the idea of just recreating CoH was a little disappointing.

[CORVUS]

Just recreating CoX is not what's going on with ANY of the 3 in-progress successors.

 

It may or may not fly, but please, let's not mis-characterize it.

[Rust]

Oh come on, you can't tell me looking at the CoT Concept art that they aren't heavily aping Atlas Park there. Like I've said, I want this project to succeed, but I'm going in with both eyes open. They've talked heavily about the various storylines for various classes, but I'll believe those when I see them.

 

You can promise anything when the game isn't anywhere near completion but once deadlines start coming down around you...it'll be interesting how many of these features they promise get into the game and how many are willingly left to the wayside in order to get out something with the "Feel" of City of Heroes. That's ultimately what they're concerned about and that's what the game is going to use as its foundation.

Edited by Rust, 26 October 2013 - 04:02 AM.

[CORVUS]

I don't consider "evoking" the same as "aping", but then I may simply be taking umbrage at Teuful's negative dismissal.

 

Now, that said, I honestly don't expect much of anything to ever truly materialize from any of the 3 Phoenix Project efforts, and I really haven't since day one. As far as I've been able to discern, very few of the people involved have any experience in the PC gaming industry. The projects are all long on hope, dreams, and talent, and short on expertise, manpower, and capital, and these are the primary reasons why I didn't get directly involved myself.

 

Honestly, our best shot at seeing something like CoX return would come with NCSoft's release of the IP and related properties, and who knows if they'll ever sell it. Their history at this point leans strongly towards "don't hold your breath."

Edited by CORVUS, 26 October 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[Dvandom]

I knew if I looked back far enough I'd find an existing thread.  Will edit thread title in a second.

 

City of Titans proceeds apace, if not yet ready for alpha.  But Missing Worlds Media seeks to actually be a media company beyond just publishing one game (or just games), and we're launching the first step in that with a Patreon-backed superhero webcomic set in the City of Titans universe: HiJinx!

 

I created the character and wrote a few test strips, but I couldn't commit to regular writing, so we found someone who actually does write comics as a professional and hired them to do the writing. 

 

---Dave

[Dvandom]

There doesn't seem to be a City of Heroes thread anymore.

 

NCSort MOBA Master X Master adds Statesman.

 

This is a post-CoH Statesman, the Tyrant version having redeemed himself during the Battalion invasion and taking up his old mantle.  I hear there's no American release planned for MXM, but this little bit suggests NCSoft is uninterested in ever releasing the IP to another company.

 

---Dave

[Rust]

While I still have a knee jerk negative reaction to all things NCSoft, I have to admit that's a very clever means of "reviving" Statesman.

[Dvandom]

Well, the storyline was planned for CoH, NCSoft took it pretty much directly from the Lore Dumps and tacked on "and then he went to MOBA-world".

 

---Dave

[Rust]

Man I miss CoX.

 

I want to run the Shooting Stars quest chain again.

 

EDIT: I miss my boys.

 

Edited by Rust, 22 March 2017 - 06:54 AM.