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@  Whirl Maximus : (23 October 2018 - 02:03 AM)

I'm mixed about the millions of years thing, it's somewhat at odds when transformers are humanized as they often are.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 October 2018 - 11:59 PM)

Are any of the Transformers terribly bright, really? This is a spacefaring civilization that's millions of years old that seem to be fighting a perpetual war for no particular reason. Transformers are stupider than humans

@  wonko the sane? : (22 October 2018 - 08:31 PM)

Depends on the machine. Are you recruiting them, or MAKING them?

@  Cybersnark : (22 October 2018 - 08:30 PM)

... And not terribly bright.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 October 2018 - 07:51 PM)

Makes sense for robot soldiers: you would want something fast, low profile, but lots of power.

@  Waspinator : (22 October 2018 - 06:31 PM)

If we go by the Prime cartoon, sports cars apparently ARE the expendable troop of choice.

@  TheMightyMol... : (22 October 2018 - 04:29 PM)

Just fold 'em into a box and slap some wheels on it, they'll figure it out.

@  Pennpenn : (22 October 2018 - 01:57 AM)

Given that by the time we're up to in the story Functionalism had been dead for millions of years and many of the people around were made during and for the war, it's probably more likely that "sports car shaped thing" was an easy to make alt mode for expendable troops.

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 09:52 PM)

maybe there's underground demolition derbies too

@  Locoman : (21 October 2018 - 09:25 PM)

Every single sports car was one of those two jobs? Considering how many there seem to be....

@  RichardT1977 : (21 October 2018 - 07:34 PM)

Athletic Entertainment

@  TheMightyMol... : (21 October 2018 - 03:32 PM)

It's mentioned in one issue that Bumblebee was a courier. The only other fast cars I can remember seeing in Functionist times were Blur and a couple of Stunticons, as racers.

@  SG Roadbuster : (21 October 2018 - 12:14 PM)

i figured the sports cars were either racers or couriers.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 12:13 PM)

Upper Class. They're clearly not made for manual labor.

@  Locoman : (21 October 2018 - 12:09 PM)

Functionism only really makes sense for certain alternate modes like mining or construction equipment; where do things like sports cars fit in?

@  Xellos : (21 October 2018 - 11:51 AM)

At least in the movies they can switch to a (similar) alt mode at will, it seems. Especially if they want to sell more toys per movie.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 October 2018 - 10:44 AM)

They are a race of adaptive machines. Maybe they were expected to change themselves to fit the role?

@  RichardT1977 : (21 October 2018 - 10:06 AM)

IDW-verse discrimination still made more sense than the backstory in TF: Exodus, where everyone's caste was assigned seemingly at random with no regard for their aptitudes (altmode or otherwise)

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 07:55 AM)

Lost Light is good too, so far.

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 07:54 AM)

I'm not terribly into Transformers in general, but I did mostly enjoy the More Than Meets The Eye series.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 05:11 AM)

Which has been in the state constitution since 1946, but was never actually executed according to documents, and is currently not in effect because the German federal constitution, which takes priority over state constitution, has banned the death penalty back in 1949.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 05:09 AM)

Huh. So next weekend, when the German state of Hesse will have its state election, there will also be a ballot about changing the state constitution... and one of the proposed changes will be abolishing the death penalty.

@  Waspinator : (21 October 2018 - 03:44 AM)

I really need to read those comics

@  Pennpenn : (21 October 2018 - 03:28 AM)

Up to and including the fact that certain alternate modes could end up being classified as "surplus to requirements" and systematically murdered.

@  Pennpenn : (21 October 2018 - 03:26 AM)

And in IDW comics where it is/was literally a form of apartheid where your alternate mode pretty much dictated how you were treated by society, what jobs you could pursue, pretty much everything.

@  Waspinator : (21 October 2018 - 02:24 AM)

We do get hints of that from time to time in Transformers, with stuff like some jets acting smug towards cars and whatnot.

@  RichardT1977 : (20 October 2018 - 08:10 PM)

"No shotgun of Mine is going to marry a rocket launcher" sounds like something that Targetmasters (or WFC Siege Micromasters) might say...

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 08:06 PM)

The characters are actually kinda nice. Sure a bunch of them are from New Jersey, but you get a few aliens too.. But if you do that, you might want to go digital delux verisons.

@  Xellos : (20 October 2018 - 06:38 PM)

My only issue is that the aside from Fox, the looks of the characters are kinda bland. If anything, I'll at least get it on Black Friday, as they almost always have deals on the toys to life stuff.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 06:07 PM)

Well I can tell you, if you are going physical version because you want the toys. The Switch version has the best Ship mount as you just slide the joycons into it. The PS4 ship mount is wired. The game itself is very good in my opionion. In some ways it starts to turn into an RTS without being an RTS. You've got to start focus on keeping your planets from being taken back over. It has a LOT to do. It does have some repitive missions, because well, trying to let you level up all pilots and ships and such. The switch version -ALSO- has starfox only missions and the characters are incorporated into the story.

@  Xellos : (20 October 2018 - 06:03 PM)

How is Starlink anyways? Been thinking of getting the Switch version for StarFox, which is quite unusal for me, as I almost always pick the PS4 versions (favorite controller and I already have so many Trophys on it).

@  Waspinator : (20 October 2018 - 05:42 PM)

No shotgun of mine is going to marry a rocket launcher!

@  TheMightyMol... : (20 October 2018 - 05:22 PM)

Should they be allowed to marry outside of their own caliber?

@  Waspinator : (20 October 2018 - 05:18 PM)

I'm conflicted on the subject of marriage rights for shotguns.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 03:24 PM)

You say, "Damn it, what do you think this is, a shotgun wedding?"

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 03:23 PM)

What do you do if someone wants to bring their concealed-carry to your American wedding?

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 01:58 PM)

Benbot, I was streaming the PS4 version of Starlink

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 01:25 PM)

Ergo their reporting will have its own slant on the facts as they choose, not the most neutral way possible.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 01:24 PM)

I find it sad to realize that the prestigious New York Times which I trusted a lot as a kid in fact has its own editorial agenda.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:20 PM)

The end result is NOT that stupid bullshit gets equal coverage as reasonable arguments. That would be problematic in itself (the "false balance" bias), but the provlem is that the controversial stupid bullshit gets MORE coverage than the reasonable arguments.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:17 PM)

The media doesn't want to miss the opportunity to report on a controversy, and as a consequence makes sure that the controversial statements reach an audience.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:17 PM)

Because they realized that saying controversial shit is guaranteed to get coverage.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:16 PM)

It's the same here in Germany. Our right-wing moron party is still a political minority, yet they succeed in driving the topics the media keeps reporting.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:15 PM)

The main problem was that Trump was banking on controversy, and the media was reporting controversy because it gave them ratings.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:15 PM)

"Fairness" was not the media's main problem.

@  wonko the sane? : (20 October 2018 - 11:40 AM)

Holy fish! Second life is still a thing?!?!

@  Benbot : (20 October 2018 - 08:32 AM)

What were you streaming, Silverclaw?

@  Shrug : (20 October 2018 - 05:28 AM)

Russian interference should have been fighting an uphill battle, but as far as I'm concerned we gave them a head start.

@  Shrug : (20 October 2018 - 05:23 AM)

I disagree with Hillary being a good choice to run against Trump. Plenty of mixed feelings about her long before 2016 within our own party. When the DNC has to rig it's own primaries to get their chosen candidate running, maybe you shouldn't expect an easy landslide at the actual election.

@  Pennpenn : (20 October 2018 - 05:20 AM)

It would have also helped if the US was also an actualy democracy where the candidate who gets the most votes wins, but hey.


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G1 Roundup

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1526 replies to this topic

#1 Zamuel

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:15 PM

Here it is, the discussion thread for My Little Pony n' Friends including the first two specials and The Movie. While the discussion will mainly be about the episodes themselves, some will crossover with comparable episodes from Friendship is Magic.

G1 and FiM seem to differ the most in how they handle threats and conflict. G1 was more physical with the forces of evil constantly attacking the protagonists and actually landing (non-lethal) hits on the ponies. FiM is more psychological with the protagonists being their own worst enemies and the villains' greatest strengths are their ability to play mind games. This leads to a distinctly different structure between the two, even discounting the adventure vs slice of life aspect. Perhaps this is best shown in the one that started it all...

Special 001:
Rescue at Midnight Castle

I need to sit down and rewatch this for the full play-by-play but the first special really encapsulates most of G1's strengths and weaknesses. The strong contrast of dark and light made the threat feel really serious. Tirek is a not even remotely subtle analogue for Satan that you can copy/paste him in to a DnD campaign or a piece of high fantasy literature with no changes and still feel incredibly dangerous. He's one of the few villains in the entire franchise to be overtly killed off. However, a lot of the ponies feel more like archetypes than characters due to not getting fleshed out like the more slice of life based FiM or Tales. You simply aren't able to form as much of a bond with them and that slightly lessens their victories. Doubly problematic since the ponies here only make this one appearance.

Still, the special did good by being an epic adventure than the stereotype girl shows are saddled with. I wonder how much was accidental and how much was deliberate. Those first few minutes are a delicious mood whiplash that had to have been shocking for those in the age range considering it actually caught me off guard.

Edited by Zamuel, 15 April 2014 - 04:50 PM.

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#2 (Deactivated) Sobana

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:28 PM

I"ll need to sit down and watch this movie then. I'll probably watch it on my next off day from work which is in the middle of the week. Wait for me, alright? =)

#3 Sailor Unicron

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:55 PM

Yay! It's here!
You are more than flesh and bone / Can't you see, you're something beautiful...you gotta believe that you are / Someone worth dying for

God's not dead!

In 1996: "TRUKK NOT MUNKEY!"; In 2013: "PONEE NOT HUGHMAN!"; in 2014: "TREE NOT CASSUL"; Regardless of the fandom, it all boils down to one thing: "RUINED FOREVA!"

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#4 Fnu Aw

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:57 PM

Well there go my plans. *pouts*

Edited by Fnu Aw, 14 June 2013 - 10:05 PM.

B5ofTKU.jpg


#5 Sailor Unicron

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:21 PM

The Elements of Harmony may be the most powerful objects in Equestria, but not even they have a kill count like the Rainbow of Light.

It practically ate Tirek's Rainbow of Darkness and hijacked its power for its own. A lot like Kirby, actually.

Edited by Sailor Unicron, 14 June 2013 - 08:22 PM.

You are more than flesh and bone / Can't you see, you're something beautiful...you gotta believe that you are / Someone worth dying for

God's not dead!

In 1996: "TRUKK NOT MUNKEY!"; In 2013: "PONEE NOT HUGHMAN!"; in 2014: "TREE NOT CASSUL"; Regardless of the fandom, it all boils down to one thing: "RUINED FOREVA!"

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#6 (Deactivated) Sobana

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:39 PM

Somehow, I think Sailor Unicron feels exactly like her avatar looks.

The Rainbow of Light was just a precursor to the Elements of Harmony.

#7 Sailor Unicron

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE(Sobana @ Jun 14 2013, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Somehow, I think Sailor Unicron feels exactly like her avatar looks.

The Rainbow of Light was just a precursor to the Elements of Harmony.


You wouldn't be far off. icon-fire.gif

This right here is the Pony I grew up with. I was doing the Pony thing long before it was cool.

I'm so glad we have this thread. icon-silverbolt.gif
You are more than flesh and bone / Can't you see, you're something beautiful...you gotta believe that you are / Someone worth dying for

God's not dead!

In 1996: "TRUKK NOT MUNKEY!"; In 2013: "PONEE NOT HUGHMAN!"; in 2014: "TREE NOT CASSUL"; Regardless of the fandom, it all boils down to one thing: "RUINED FOREVA!"

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I got my counter at Jellyneo.net! NaNoWriMo is GO!

#8 Zamuel

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE(Sobana @ Jun 14 2013, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I"ll need to sit down and watch this movie then. I'll probably watch it on my next off day from work which is in the middle of the week. Wait for me, alright? =)


While conversation will start before then, I'll try to leave these up for about a week each unless it's super dead or a conversation has good momentum to keep going.

Since it's been brought up, let's talk about the differences between the Rainbow of Light and the Elements of Harmony. While the EoH have had traits that make them seem to have life, it's rather subtle and in the background. RoL is quite blatantly a living thing that reacts to outside stimuli. This is gonna sound like a weird comparison but RoL seems like a (broken and overpowered) Pokemon while EoH seems like a Green Lantern ring with limited settings. The creature vs tool affects their application and how they're regarded. EoH's abilities seem much more in line with healing or banishing. Baring some possible debate about Luna's alter ego, EoH doesn't have a kill count at all. RoL has healing ability but is probably far more well known for killing Tirek and the Worf Effect of being beaten by the Smooze. In fact, despite having a more destructive edge, the threat of being killed is a very real problem for the RoL.
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#9 Caldwin

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

And here I was going to watch the extras on my "A Good Day To Die Hard" DVD. *pout* Okay, let's do this. *fires up Youtube*

This really does look and sound like it was taken off an old VHS. Of course, it probably was. It probably wouldn't hurt Hasbro to remaster some of these.

Hmm, straight into the opening credits. No cold open or anything. That's...different.

Sandy Duncan...now where do I know that name?

"I wish. I wish. I wish." Twilight's teleportation powers certainly have grown since then.

I'm sorry. But some of these voice actors, you actually get the feeling they're just reading from a script. They just aren't emoting. I understand that's how a lot of 80's animation was...but it's also part of why I just couldn't get into it the first time.

Oh! Applejack! That's something. From what I've heard, though, she only appears in this episode. Pity. She doesn't even have her stetson.

Wait...they do the opening theme, have some story action, now they're back to the theme music? That's...odd. It's like a totally different culture of animation here.

Oh! Perfect ammo for a Applejack/Twilight shipping! Wish I had a picture.

Hmm...Amber seems to be learning the difference between the races. She can't fly like a pegasus, but she'll grow up to be her own self. Hmm...okay.

Now this is how dragons should be. Not just jerky jocks. These guys are threatening. I'll give G1 this...villians were threatening.

Oh! G1 Spike.

Okay, all I can see is a hand and a lot of shadow and a creepy voice...and it works. This villian is downright creepy. It's kind of a shame kids toons today don't go this dark. This is probably the one thing about G1 I actually do like. The rest of it, as I've said in other threads, not my cup of tea. But I gotta respect the fact that they weren't afraid to scare the kids a little. And that was okay.

And...a human...in MLP. You can see why G4 fans would be in for a bit of culture shock here.

So...Firefly's plan here is to just grab the first human she sees, kidnap them and take them back to Pony...what's the name of the place again?

And Megan just hops on to the talking pegasus after knowing her for less than 10 seconds and goes off on and adventure...just like that. Also something all too common in the 80's that just wouldn't fly these days. People do things not because the character has any good reason to do it, but because the plot demands it.

Oh...a musical score. Can we go back to "You Gotta Share, You Gotta Care?" Please?

I do like these dark castle spots. This guy is freaking creepy. Just turned the ponies into dragons. Dark!

Oh no. No no no no no. NO! Sea ponies! This song. This freaking song. Shoo be doo is now going to be stuck in my head for the rest of the night. I need a freaking drink!

Big freaking mushrooms. Now we know what the writers were thinking of.

So, now we have a bumbling magician type? They keep running into these characters that the viewer doesn't even know, has no reason to believe there's any kind of motivation to help our protagonists...and yet they just join the cause. And these musical numbers really make "Magical Mystery Cure" look tame.

Oh...hey! The Rainbow of Light. So...he's just giving it to them? He's known them for like a minute and he's just giving them the deus ex machina of the entire series? Oooookay!

Didn't take them long to need the seaponies again.

Nooooo! Applejaaaaaaack!

"I wish. I wish. I wish." I'm glad that got phased out for G4.

So...Rainbow of Light...Elements of Harmony...it all pretty much comes down to getting a face full of rainbow.

Hmm...okay. Well...it hasn't changed my mind any. G1 just isn't my cup of tea. I can see where anyone used to FiM would have some culture shock trying to watch G1...because yeah, I just kinda got a load of it myself.

However, most of the negatives I come up with really were things that could be said about most 80's animation. Stiff voice acting, characters doing things because the plot demanded instead of having any real character driven reason to do it...I can't really blame it on MLP.

I think if I'd have grown up with MLP, it wouldn't be an issue with me. I can watch Transformers and BraveStar even though, objectively, they suffer from the same trappings. But I forgive it with those shows because they're the ones I grew up watching. I didn't grow up watching MLP, so it's more glaring for me here.

But like I noted before, I will give G1 this. The atmosphere of the dark castle, the creepyness of the villians, they got that right. It's one thing I do like about the 80's. They weren't afraid to make childrens shows creepy. That's what makes shows like Secret of Nymn so great. They got dark. They got creepy. They got scary. And kids LOVED it!

So...there you go. Since G1 isn't really my thing, I probably won't be too heavy into this thread. But I wanted to do this episode since I had seen it before and wanted to do a play by play. Maybe drop me a PM when you get to Return of Tambelon and End of FlutterValley.


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#10 Zamuel

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:40 PM

Beaten to the punch...nooooooo!

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 14 2013, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So...there you go. Since G1 isn't really my thing, I probably won't be too heavy into this thread. But I wanted to do this episode since I had seen it before and wanted to do a play by play. Maybe drop me a PM when you get to Return of Tambelon and End of FlutterValley.


Glad you gave it a rewatch. I guess I'm a bit of an oddball since I didn't grow up with MLP but wound up thoroughly enjoying most of G1. Then again, I've come to that point of acceptance with some of my other tastes in older cartoons so I can forgive and/or ignore the bad and enjoy the good. I'll probably drop you a line for The Return of Tambelon but I don't know about The End of Flutter Valley. It really is flawed and overly long and if I had to drag you back in here, I'd rather do it for Bright Lights, The Magic Coins, or Crunch the Rock Dog. I'll respond to your play-by-play after I write mine.
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#11 Fnu Aw

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:41 PM

QUOTE(Sailor Unicron @ Jun 14 2013, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Elements of Harmony may be the most powerful objects in Equestria, but not even they have a kill count like the Rainbow of Light.

It practically ate Tirek's Rainbow of Darkness and hijacked its power for its own. A lot like Kirby, actually.

This whole franchise reminds me of Kirby. Throw in some eyeball monsters and the settings would be indistinguishable.

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 14 2013, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And here I was going to watch the extras on my "A Good Day To Die Hard" DVD. *pout* Okay, let's do this. *fires up Youtube*

And here I was planning to start this thread myself. I figured I'd surprise everyone. And I was going to use this header.



QUOTE
Oh! Applejack! That's something. From what I've heard, though, she only appears in this episode. Pity. She doesn't even have her stetson.

Who's a silly pony?

QUOTE
Okay, all I can see is a hand and a lot of shadow and a creepy voice...and it works. This villian is downright creepy. It's kind of a shame kids toons today don't go this dark. This is probably the one thing about G1 I actually do like. The rest of it, as I've said in other threads, not my cup of tea. But I gotta respect the fact that they weren't afraid to scare the kids a little. And that was okay.

I think I understand why these scenes work so well. It's the roughness of the animation. It's grainy, the colors seem faded, and it fits the intended atmosphere perfectly. The VHS transfer only adds to it if you ask me. by contrast, modern animation is too clean. The colors are too vibrant. Dark castles and the like just don' t have the same dirty feel to them.

QUOTE
And...a human...in MLP. You can see why G4 fans would be in for a bit of culture shock here.

Lyra's not crazy after all.

QUOTE
So...Firefly's plan here is to just grab the first human she sees, kidnap them and take them back to Pony...what's the name of the place again?

And Megan just hops on to the talking pegasus after knowing her for less than 10 seconds and goes off on and adventure...just like that. Also something all too common in the 80's that just wouldn't fly these days. People do things not because the character has any good reason to do it, but because the plot demands it.

Are you saying that if you got the call from a talking mythical creature, you'd have to think about it?

QUOTE
Oh...a musical score. Can we go back to "You Gotta Share, You Gotta Care?" Please?

Why did this even become a thing, anyway?

QUOTE
Oh no. No no no no no. NO! Sea ponies! This song. This freaking song. Shoo be doo is now going to be stuck in my head for the rest of the night. I need a freaking drink!

Shoo be doo.

QUOTE
So, now we have a bumbling magician type? They keep running into these characters that the viewer doesn't even know, has no reason to believe there's any kind of motivation to help our protagonists...and yet they just join the cause. And these musical numbers really make "Magical Mystery Cure" look tame.

Because questing is fun.

QUOTE
Oh...hey! The Rainbow of Light. So...he's just giving it to them? He's known them for like a minute and he's just giving them the deus ex machina of the entire series? Oooookay!

What could possibly go wrong?

Edited by Fnu Aw, 14 June 2013 - 10:43 PM.

B5ofTKU.jpg


#12 Caldwin

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:00 PM

QUOTE(Zamuel @ Jun 14 2013, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll probably drop you a line for The Return of Tambelon but I don't know about The End of Flutter Valley. It really is flawed and overly long...

Well, I've also already done a play by play for it...somewhere...around here. I'll maybe try and look for it after I'm done replying. But even if all I do is copy/paste my old play by play...I wouldn't mind discussing G1. I'd probably have to take it in small doses. But even if G1 isn't my thing, I still like seeing where the things I like about G4 drew some of their inspiration.

QUOTE(Fnu Aw @ Jun 14 2013, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who's a silly pony?
Why? Why would you do that? Why must you torment me?

QUOTE
I think I understand why these scenes work so well. It's the roughness of the animation. It's grainy, the colors seem faded, and it fits the intended atmosphere perfectly. The VHS transfer only adds to it if you ask me. by contrast, modern animation is too clean. The colors are too vibrant. Dark castles and the like just don' t have the same dirty feel to them.
Absolutely agree. I mean, for the most part, the VHSness of it kinda ruins it. But in the dark parts, the grainy faded feeling really does add to it. That more than anything is what I miss about old animation. Last Unicorn, Secret of Nimh, even the old Disney classics...that dark grainy feeling just sets the mood.

Modern computer coloring and clean animation is great for flashy, action packed...oh look at the 1080p detailed goodness of it all. But it lacks the raw grit of old animation. I don't think I've seen anything truly spooky and unsettling in years that even comes close to matching what we used to get.

QUOTE
Are you saying that if you got the call from a talking mythical creature, you'd have to think about it?
Guess you got a point there.

QUOTE
Shoo be doo.
You are the devil.


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#13 Sailor Unicron

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 14 2013, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sandy Duncan...now where do I know that name?


She was Vixy in The Fox and the Hound.

QUOTE
"I wish. I wish. I wish." Twilight's teleportation powers certainly have grown since then.


Fun fact. At this point in the franchise, Twilight was the only unicorn capable of teleporting. Moondancer and Glory weren't that lucky.

QUOTE
So...Firefly's plan here is to just grab the first human she sees, kidnap them and take them back to Pony...what's the name of the place again?


Dream Valley. That's Firefly for ya. Brash, impulsive... Easy to see where G4 Rainbow Dash got her personality.

QUOTE
I do like these dark castle spots. This guy is freaking creepy. Just turned the ponies into dragons. Dark!


Nightmare Moon ain't got nothin' on Tirek.

QUOTE
Oh...hey! The Rainbow of Light. So...he's just giving it to them? He's known them for like a minute and he's just giving them the deus ex machina of the entire series? Oooookay!


Given that the Moochick's aware what's going to happen if they don't stop Tirek, I'd be more surprised if he didn't.

QUOTE
"I wish. I wish. I wish." I'm glad that got phased out for G4.


Not just in G4. From the Movie onward, there's no incantation needed for teleportation.

QUOTE
Hmm...okay. Well...it hasn't changed my mind any. G1 just isn't my cup of tea. I can see where anyone used to FiM would have some culture shock trying to watch G1...because yeah, I just kinda got a load of it myself.

However, most of the negatives I come up with really were things that could be said about most 80's animation. Stiff voice acting, characters doing things because the plot demanded instead of having any real character driven reason to do it...I can't really blame it on MLP.

I think if I'd have grown up with MLP, it wouldn't be an issue with me. I can watch Transformers and BraveStar even though, objectively, they suffer from the same trappings. But I forgive it with those shows because they're the ones I grew up watching. I didn't grow up watching MLP, so it's more glaring for me here.

But like I noted before, I will give G1 this. The atmosphere of the dark castle, the creepyness of the villians, they got that right. It's one thing I do like about the 80's. They weren't afraid to make childrens shows creepy. That's what makes shows like Secret of Nymn so great. They got dark. They got creepy. They got scary. And kids LOVED it!

So...there you go. Since G1 isn't really my thing, I probably won't be too heavy into this thread. But I wanted to do this episode since I had seen it before and wanted to do a play by play. Maybe drop me a PM when you get to Return of Tambelon and End of FlutterValley.


Fair enough. I look forward to seeing you commentary on other episodes.

Edited by Sailor Unicron, 15 June 2013 - 08:05 AM.

You are more than flesh and bone / Can't you see, you're something beautiful...you gotta believe that you are / Someone worth dying for

God's not dead!

In 1996: "TRUKK NOT MUNKEY!"; In 2013: "PONEE NOT HUGHMAN!"; in 2014: "TREE NOT CASSUL"; Regardless of the fandom, it all boils down to one thing: "RUINED FOREVA!"

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#14 Fnu Aw

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:39 AM

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 15 2013, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Zamuel @ Jun 14 2013, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll probably drop you a line for The Return of Tambelon but I don't know about The End of Flutter Valley. It really is flawed and overly long...

Well, I've also already done a play by play for it...somewhere...around here. I'll maybe try and look for it after I'm done replying. But even if all I do is copy/paste my old play by play...I wouldn't mind discussing G1. I'd probably have to take it in small doses. But even if G1 isn't my thing, I still like seeing where the things I like about G4 drew some of their inspiration.

I'll participate if only to find out what I've already seen, since I still don't have a VHS to DVD converter I trust.

For the record, this is definitely one I've seen.

QUOTE
QUOTE(Fnu Aw @ Jun 14 2013, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who's a silly pony?
Why? Why would you do that? Why must you torment me?

It's not a proper discussion of old cartoons until an annoying song gets stuck in someone's head.

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I think I understand why these scenes work so well. It's the roughness of the animation. It's grainy, the colors seem faded, and it fits the intended atmosphere perfectly. The VHS transfer only adds to it if you ask me. by contrast, modern animation is too clean. The colors are too vibrant. Dark castles and the like just don' t have the same dirty feel to them.
Absolutely agree. I mean, for the most part, the VHSness of it kinda ruins it. But in the dark parts, the grainy faded feeling really does add to it. That more than anything is what I miss about old animation. Last Unicorn, Secret of Nimh, even the old Disney classics...that dark grainy feeling just sets the mood.

Modern computer coloring and clean animation is great for flashy, action packed...oh look at the 1080p detailed goodness of it all. But it lacks the raw grit of old animation. I don't think I've seen anything truly spooky and unsettling in years that even comes close to matching what we used to get.

Imagine this scene in 1080p with vivid colors, no fading, and no grain.



I strongly feel that computer animation will not truly come of age until it can replicate that gritty look.

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Are you saying that if you got the call from a talking mythical creature, you'd have to think about it?
Guess you got a point there.

Plus it's a talking, flying mythical creature. Who would say no?

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Shoo be doo.
You are the devil.

So they say. Bwahaha.

QUOTE(Sailor Unicron @ Jun 15 2013, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
So...Firefly's plan here is to just grab the first human she sees, kidnap them and take them back to Pony...what's the name of the place again?


Dream Valley. That's Firefly for ya. Brash, impulsive... Easy to see where G4 Rainbow Dash got her personality.

I guess it runs in the family.

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I do like these dark castle spots. This guy is freaking creepy. Just turned the ponies into dragons. Dark!


Nightmare Moon ain't got nothin' on Tirek.

Though Queen Chrysalis might.

Edited by Fnu Aw, 15 June 2013 - 10:46 AM.

B5ofTKU.jpg


#15 Caldwin

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

QUOTE(Fnu Aw @ Jun 15 2013, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll participate if only to find out what I've already seen, since I still don't have a VHS to DVD converter I trust.

For the record, this is definitely one I've seen.
I dunno. I'll have to see where the situation takes me. There's a question of just how many of these episodes can or can't be found on youtube. There's also how long my tolerance for G1 holds out. I also hope this doesn't interfere with the Season 3 Roundup.

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It's not a proper discussion of old cartoons until an annoying song gets stuck in someone's head.
Do you have to work at being evil or does it just come naturally?

QUOTE
Imagine this scene in 1080p with vivid colors, no fading, and no grain.



I strongly feel that computer animation will not truly come of age until it can replicate that gritty look.
We need to start a "Bring Back the Grain" movement, though I expect it would be an uphill battle.

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QUOTE
QUOTE
I do like these dark castle spots. This guy is freaking creepy. Just turned the ponies into dragons. Dark!


Nightmare Moon ain't got nothin' on Tirek.

Though Queen Chrysalis might.

Naaaah! She's way too cute. Sombra...maybe...if he had more than a two-word-vocabulary.

EDIT TO ADD: I honestly get the feeling though that writers today don't want it to get too dark. Chrysalis could have been terrifying. She had the evil, but the look was just too cute. It may have something to do with the grain discussion we're having...but for crying out loud! Take a look at Cerberus. This is a well established mythological figure...a hell hound with whom you do not want to mess with. He should be terrifying as hell! They turned him into a lovable three-headed bulldog. It's like cartoon makers today are just afraid of making something truly terrifying anymore.

Edited by Caldwin, 15 June 2013 - 11:28 AM.

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#16 Fnu Aw

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:58 AM

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 15 2013, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I dunno. I'll have to see where the situation takes me. There's a question of just how many of these episodes can or can't be found on youtube. There's also how long my tolerance for G1 holds out. I also hope this doesn't interfere with the Season 3 Roundup.

Nothing will interfere with the season 3 roundup. Nothing.

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QUOTE
It's not a proper discussion of old cartoons until an annoying song gets stuck in someone's head.
Do you have to work at being evil or does it just come naturally?

It's natural.

QUOTE
We need to start a "Bring Back the Grain" movement, though I expect it would be an uphill battle.

All it's going to take is the right timing. Someday kids will grow up never knowing grainy animation (and that may be happening now). Then, when the grain comes back, it'll be something "new".

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QUOTE
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Nightmare Moon ain't got nothin' on Tirek.

Though Queen Chrysalis might.

Naaaah! She's way too cute.

Thump.

QUOTE
EDIT TO ADD: I honestly get the feeling though that writers today don't want it to get too dark. Chrysalis could have been terrifying. She had the evil, but the look was just too cute. It may have something to do with the grain discussion we're having...but for crying out loud! Take a look at Cerberus. This is a well established mythological figure...a hell hound with whom you do not want to mess with. He should be terrifying as hell! They turned him into a lovable three-headed bulldog. It's like cartoon makers today are just afraid of making something truly terrifying anymore.

I think that is indeed the problem. It doesn't seem like the Hasbro execs are the ones to blame. Some of Lauren Faust's original monster concepts actually got rejected for not being scary enough. If the crew really wanted to push it, they might be surprised by what they could do.

B5ofTKU.jpg


#17 Sjogre

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:46 PM

QUOTE(Zamuel @ Jun 14 2013, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Since it's been brought up, let's talk about the differences between the Rainbow of Light and the Elements of Harmony. While the EoH have had traits that make them seem to have life, it's rather subtle and in the background. RoL is quite blatantly a living thing that reacts to outside stimuli. This is gonna sound like a weird comparison but RoL seems like a (broken and overpowered) Pokemon while EoH seems like a Green Lantern ring with limited settings. The creature vs tool affects their application and how they're regarded. EoH's abilities seem much more in line with healing or banishing. Baring some possible debate about Luna's alter ego, EoH doesn't have a kill count at all. RoL has healing ability but is probably far more well known for killing Tirek and the Worf Effect of being beaten by the Smooze. In fact, despite having a more destructive edge, the threat of being killed is a very real problem for the RoL.

I'm not sure how limited the settings on the Elements are. When the Manes first used them, it turned Nightmare Moon back into Luna without any of them being aware of her existence, so they seemed to act on their own. Against Discord, they also seemed to act as a defensive weapon, with the restrict that they couldn't actually kill someone.

Then season three happened, at they were used to help Twilight cast a spell, albeit one that undid something the Elements did. After that, they reacted to a spell when Twilight wasn't trying to use them, and without the other manes being present. Appropriately, that last one went haywire.

From the first two seasons, they were a defensive weapon. From the third, I don't know what they are supposed to be. Except that it's more important than ever that they are actually secured, as they can definitely be used to cause (non-lethal?) harm, knowingly or unknowingly.

I can't really buy the Elements having a will of their own. If they're alive, they're either very literal or kind of a jerk. Except literalism wouldn't explain transforming Nightmare instead of just sealing her in the moon again. On the other limb, that would fit with Nightmare's transformation being something that Celestia set up when she last used the Elements. That would even explain why Celestia didn't tell Twilight about Luna; if Twilight didn't manage to turn her back, Celestia wouldn't want her to feel guilty about it.

The Rainbow... As near as I can tell, it's a living guardian. They refer to it as alive, and it actual seems to think about its attacks at points, although I'm not sure just how intelligent it is. They pull it out a few times when they aren't in danger and it's generally quite playful. A big family dog that goes for the throat in a fight.

Moving on....

Damn. It's been a while since I last saw Midnight Castle and I forgot how quickly the Freaking Metal appears. There's less than a minute between the theme song ending and a plague of dragon-things swooping down to adduct ponies. About twenty seconds for trouble to start.

One of the theme lyrics is "No sign of trouble in sight." Dammit. If that line stays in the lyrics for the rest of the series, no wonder they keep having trouble.

Generally glossed over, but Spike was actually an evil minion at first. He's still the nice guy from later in the series, but right now he's trying to help Satan Tirac. It would have been interesting to see what he would have grown up into, if he hadn't joined the ponies. Also, while the series never addresses it on screen, how and why a baby dragon ended up in the company of Tirac is fairly obvious, to the point where the questions don't even need to be asked.

I really would have liked to see human Scorpan visit Spike at some point. Scorpan bonded with the tyke to the point that Tirac would threaten Spike to keep him in line, so you'd think that he'd show some concern.

Ah well... This special starts the franchise-wide habit of bringing up something interesting or important in an episode, and never ever talking about it again. While G1 had a habit of killing off the villains, that's probably why the survivors are rarely seen. Heck, that's why the other good guys never seem to reappear, despite the ponies often needed help. Well, it could be that the rest of the world has just as much trouble, so they've never got a moment free.

Anyway, Megan. Why the heck did Firefly look for someone from beyond the rainbow? Megan has a good head on her shoulders and adapts fast, but there are humans in the pony world as well. Maybe they're all too terrified to face Tirac so Firefly needed a sucker hero from another world? She's not even there for five minutes before the pseudo-dragons try to kidnap her. Traditional Dream Valley welcome, folks. For all that Fnu jokes about Ponyville being a disaster-ridden hellhole, it's not that bad, at least when the Manes aren't causing trouble. Dream Valley isn't that bad, either. It's worse.

To Megan's credit, after nearly falling to her death, she immediately gets back up and is ready for a fight. She goes after the guy that saved her, sure, but he's the only leader that she sees. Not a lot of targets.

The seaponies. That song is freaking awesome, and I will fight anyone that says otherwise. I really want to hear Danial Ingram cover it. With the nature spirit role the G4 ponies have, the seaponies are probably the best fit of the extra pony types from previous generations.

The Moochick. Because of him, I can never be too harsh on Angel. Habbit is an example of what Angel has to put up, except the Moochick is just absent minded and not deliberately unhelpful.

Overall, fun thing. Not even a sentence of explanation for who or what Tirac was, but still fun. I've always had the impression that And Friends was the result of a game master desperately improvising session after session, without a shred of notes or plans. One thing that am left wondering about, though, is the nature of the transformations at the end. The Rainbow of Light undid what was done to the ponies and Prince... Scorpan...?, but we later learn that Dream Valley was originally an uninhabitable hellhole. So was Tirac's territory like that originally, or was it transformed into a sea by the Rainbow of Darkness?

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 14 2013, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now this is how dragons should be. Not just jerky jocks. These guys are threatening. I'll give G1 this...villians were threatening.

Those are not dragons. The dragons in this series talk. The ponies call Scorpan's raiding monsters stratadons.

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 14 2013, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh...hey! The Rainbow of Light. So...he's just giving it to them? He's known them for like a minute and he's just giving them the deus ex machina of the entire series? Oooookay!

This isn't there first meeting. We don't see it onscreen, but it's made plenty clear from their interactions that they've met before, and are on good terms. With G1, you're coming in towards the middle.

Seeing how the ponies settled Dream Valley would have been nice, but it's never shown on screen, or even talked about much.

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 14 2013, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Didn't take them long to need the seaponies again.

Intelligent usage of allies. Nice to see in any show.

QUOTE(Fnu Aw @ Jun 14 2013, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 14 2013, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh...a musical score. Can we go back to "You Gotta Share, You Gotta Care?" Please?

Why did this even become a thing, anyway?

Why would this ever go away? Musical numbers are awesome.

QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 15 2013, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
EDIT TO ADD: I honestly get the feeling though that writers today don't want it to get too dark. Chrysalis could have been terrifying. She had the evil, but the look was just too cute. It may have something to do with the grain discussion we're having...but for crying out loud! Take a look at Cerberus. This is a well established mythological figure...a hell hound with whom you do not want to mess with. He should be terrifying as hell! They turned him into a lovable three-headed bulldog. It's like cartoon makers today are just afraid of making something truly terrifying anymore.

I don't think that it's afraid so much as not allowed. One of the show runners said that there are very firm limits on just how far they can go. Some stuff just won't get past the censors these days.

Pathetic.

QUOTE(Fnu Aw @ Jun 15 2013, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think that is indeed the problem. It doesn't seem like the Hasbro execs are the ones to blame. Some of Lauren Faust's original monster concepts actually got rejected for not being scary enough. If the crew really wanted to push it, they might be surprised by what they could do.

Why do you think that she made them so mild in the first place? She was aware that too scary would be rejected, and just happened to overcompensate.
Unfortunately, fools are often planproof.

#18 Sailor Unicron

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 07:47 PM

It's a shame that Majesty never showed up. It would have been an excellent plot point if she was the one who made Dream Valley inhabitable for the ponies.

It's also a shame that Cotton Candy was the only one of the original six ponies to have an animated appearance.

Edited by Sailor Unicron, 15 June 2013 - 07:55 PM.

You are more than flesh and bone / Can't you see, you're something beautiful...you gotta believe that you are / Someone worth dying for

God's not dead!

In 1996: "TRUKK NOT MUNKEY!"; In 2013: "PONEE NOT HUGHMAN!"; in 2014: "TREE NOT CASSUL"; Regardless of the fandom, it all boils down to one thing: "RUINED FOREVA!"

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#19 Fnu Aw

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE(Sjogre @ Jun 15 2013, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyway, Megan. Why the heck did Firefly look for someone from beyond the rainbow? Megan has a good head on her shoulders and adapts fast, but there are humans in the pony world as well. Maybe they're all too terrified to face Tirac so Firefly needed a sucker hero from another world?

Sometimes you need someone who doesn't know what can't be done.

QUOTE
She's not even there for five minutes before the pseudo-dragons try to kidnap her. Traditional Dream Valley welcome, folks. For all that Fnu jokes about Ponyville being a disaster-ridden hellhole, it's not that bad, at least when the Manes aren't causing trouble. Dream Valley isn't that bad, either. It's worse.

I wouldn't consider either one a hellhole, really.

QUOTE
The seaponies. That song is freaking awesome, and I will fight anyone that says otherwise. I really want to hear Danial Ingram cover it. With the nature spirit role the G4 ponies have, the seaponies are probably the best fit of the extra pony types from previous generations.

G4 will have them eventually. Hasbro reps can't show up anywhere without getting asked about them.

QUOTE
QUOTE(Fnu Aw @ Jun 14 2013, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 14 2013, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh...a musical score. Can we go back to "You Gotta Share, You Gotta Care?" Please?

Why did this even become a thing, anyway?

Why would this ever go away? Musical numbers are awesome.

They can be awesome. Too often they're just abused.

QUOTE
QUOTE(Caldwin @ Jun 15 2013, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
EDIT TO ADD: I honestly get the feeling though that writers today don't want it to get too dark. Chrysalis could have been terrifying. She had the evil, but the look was just too cute. It may have something to do with the grain discussion we're having...but for crying out loud! Take a look at Cerberus. This is a well established mythological figure...a hell hound with whom you do not want to mess with. He should be terrifying as hell! They turned him into a lovable three-headed bulldog. It's like cartoon makers today are just afraid of making something truly terrifying anymore.

I don't think that it's afraid so much as not allowed. One of the show runners said that there are very firm limits on just how far they can go. Some stuff just won't get past the censors these days.

Pathetic.

The censors are human beings. They may be stubborn, but I am not convinced that they are immovable. I believe truly dark animation can make a comeback.

B5ofTKU.jpg


#20 Sjogre

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE(Sailor Unicron @ Jun 15 2013, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's a shame that Majesty never showed up. It would have been an excellent plot point if she was the one who made Dream Valley inhabitable for the ponies.

It's also a shame that Cotton Candy was the only one of the original six ponies to have an animated appearance.

Majesty was the pony that came with Spike, wasn't she? That implies a nasty end for her...

Crazy Unrelated Theory: The (toy) G1 ponies were actually controlled by the dragons behind the scenes. All of the princesses* had a baby dragon servant, and all of those baby dragons reported back to their parents.

QUOTE(Fnu Aw @ Jun 15 2013, 07:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The censors are human beings. They may be stubborn, but I am not convinced that they are immovable. I believe truly dark animation can make a comeback.

It can. Hopefully, it will. But it's not going to happen over night. Transformers Prime is probably making the best push for that right now, but it's also for an older age range than MLP, so it's got more leeway.

*I'm not the only person that thinks princessi is the better sounding plural, am I?
Unfortunately, fools are often planproof.