Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Squawkbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Please don't post Youtube videos in the chat box. The forums software auto embeds them. 

@  wonko the sane? : (13 November 2019 - 07:01 PM)

Does germany make it quick and easy to see a doctor too? Cause an emergency doctor visit can take two weeks out here, and an emergency ROOM visit can take 18-24 hours.

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:43 PM)

(Good thing is, under German law, if you call in sick during your vacation and see a doctor immediately, you get to keep your vacation days.)

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:42 PM)

Too bad. My plans wee to do two more overtime hours before having my last day of vacation for the year on Friday. Oh well.

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:41 PM)

So I'm currently on medical leave for a particularly stupid reason: Burned my back with a hot-water bag while sleeping last night. Though the doctor said I'm hardly the first person to have this happen to them.

@  Patch : (13 November 2019 - 06:11 PM)

Just a particularly odious example of the 90s era of depicting transgender women as either the subject of crude humor, or "Jerry Springer" material.

@  Ashley : (13 November 2019 - 04:55 PM)

I think Ace Ventura legit contributed to me spending years in self denial. I will never be ok with Jim Carrey.

@  Benbot : (13 November 2019 - 01:22 PM)

I thought he since changed his tune.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (13 November 2019 - 12:51 PM)

Jim Carry Paladin?

@  Maximus Ambus : (13 November 2019 - 12:22 PM)

Don't doubt what he can do. Sonic the Hedgehog!

@  Paladin : (13 November 2019 - 11:51 AM)

not giving a dime to a transphobic antivaxxer.

@  wonko the sane? : (13 November 2019 - 11:25 AM)

It'll be a terrible movie if jim carrey phones it in. Otherwise it should be decent.

@  Paladin : (13 November 2019 - 10:45 AM)

sonics' still gonna be a terrible movie but at least they whined loud enough to make him look passable for a 2-minute trailer. "yay."

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:37 AM)

But of course to annoying people there's no such thing as different decisions made for different reasons, there is only "I like it so it's right" and "I don't like it so it's wrong."

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:35 AM)

Even if we pretend it's objective truth that they were both bad, then they were bad in very different ways.

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:33 AM)

Sonic's previous movie design looked genuinely bad. The Transformers '07 designs just looked insufficiently like what certain loud and obnoxious parts of the fandom think Transformers are required to always look like.

@  Otaku : (13 November 2019 - 08:50 AM)

Um... Purple Monkey Dishwasher?

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 November 2019 - 08:25 AM)

Do we really need to have Every Movie Transformer Thread Ever in the Squawkbox?

@  Bass X0 : (13 November 2019 - 08:13 AM)

Sure it made money but that doesn’t mean it has appealing character designs. Lot of god awful fugly faces in the Transformers movies.

@  Otaku : (12 November 2019 - 08:25 PM)

@Liege My issue with Transformers (2007) were elements I thought were unnecessary.  I know it was supposed to just be a joke, but I didn't ever need to hear about "Sam's Happy Time". >.> Which, being in awe of the first "live action" TF-film, didn't even register until I'd already purchased and watched it on DVD a few times (after seeing it in theaters 3 times).

@  Liege : (12 November 2019 - 08:22 PM)

For all the Bayisms in the 07 movie, it was tempered by Spielberg as producer. Designs aside it was an enjoyable popcorn blockbuster about a boy and his first car who happens to be an alien from another planet. They sequels are just Bay going unchecked after he proved how much bank he could bring in.

@  TM2-Megatron : (12 November 2019 - 07:12 PM)

I didn't find the designs in the '07 movie to be that bad, personally. What got really offputting was how Cybertronians in general become such huge a-holes in the later films; the designs were very much secondary to their horrible personalities

@  Sabrblade : (12 November 2019 - 06:59 PM)

And yet, Transformers still broke the bank at the box office, opened up the brand to a whole new generation of fans, shot the brand up to mainstream appeal, and enabled all kinds of new collector-oriented lines and other avenues to come about. Not saying Sonic's movie will do the same for his series, but the 2007 TF movie certainly did more good than harm.

@  Bass X0 : (12 November 2019 - 06:09 PM)

Paramount changed Sonic due to fan backlash but refused to redo Transformers 2007 with new cgi appearances based on their classic forms everyone’s knows and loves, and can relate to. Trailer 1 Sonic is as appealing a design as 2007 Bumblebee...

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 November 2019 - 02:14 PM)

I don't. They're a pain in the ass to repair.

@  Benbot : (12 November 2019 - 12:48 PM)

I wish car companies would bring back flip up headlights

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 November 2019 - 09:07 AM)

Wear a hazmat suit. It's Walmart, they're used to weird.

@  wonko the sane? : (12 November 2019 - 07:54 AM)

2 inches of snow on the side of the house, 2 feet of snow on the deck. I hate this winter already.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (11 November 2019 - 11:33 PM)

But that requires actually going IN walmart. ;P

@  Liege : (11 November 2019 - 11:22 PM)

Pro tip for anyone hunting the for the Walmart 35th exclusives: try the seasonal aisles rather than the toy section. I found the display with all the exclusives and a bunch of the reflector wave practically untouched amongst those novelty arcade machines and a bunch of frozen merch.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (11 November 2019 - 09:45 PM)

Although that does spark an idea for me. In a new continuity, Censere the Necrobot could be the herald Cityspeaker for Quintessa the Necrotitan just to play on their monikers utilizing Greek for dead, nekrós.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (11 November 2019 - 09:26 PM)

I hate to burst your bubble, Maximus Ambus, but 90% of things said in IDW turned out to be amnesiac half-rememberings courtesy of Adaptus or outright lies courtesy of Shockwave.

@  Jenny : (11 November 2019 - 08:54 AM)

The toy's designed to look like Wipe-Out, anyway.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 November 2019 - 08:14 AM)

Didn't they try to retcon that into a figure of speech because that connection went against everybody else's long-term plans?

@  Maximus Ambus : (11 November 2019 - 03:53 AM)

There's still some connection given Trypticon was created by Mortilus.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 November 2019 - 12:12 AM)

Yeah that toy doesn't exactly look like Necrobot.

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 08:24 PM)

But.... it's just "Necro" not "Necrobot".

@  TheMightyMol... : (10 November 2019 - 05:10 PM)

But why does the God of Death need a giant space kaiju? Wait, never mind, answered my own question.

@  Maximus Ambus : (10 November 2019 - 02:15 PM)

Yowza I just realised Titans Trypticon comes with Necro AKA Censere AKA Mortilus.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:15 PM)

I... think the best equivalent would actually be the British "There is room for improvement".

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:15 PM)

There's always a sense of irony to it, but what the ratio between irony (you really failed) and straightworwardness (at least you achieved something) is depends on the situation and the speaker.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:12 PM)

The meaning can be both literal (you succeed on one level but fail on another), or it can be utterly ironic (you fail in every regard but the most technical; or even worse, "you really gave your best"), and anything in between.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:10 PM)

For example: A singer can hit the notes really well, but clearly isn't a native speaker and what little of the lyrics you can make out sounds nothing like what it's supposed to be.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 01:06 PM)

The premise seems to be the mixing of technical and aesthetic technical qualities towards the overall success.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 01:05 PM)

But both "hollow victory" and pyrrhic victory" are referring to having lost as much as you've gained. IE; a battle was won but both armies were destroyed. The town being seiged is victorious, but all the soldiers are still dead. Nevermore's concept is more "You did it, but it's so ugly we don't know if you actually succeeded".

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:35 AM)

Alternately, one could probably also call it a "hollow victory".

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:35 AM)

Example: In the Powerpuff Girls episode "Uh Oh Dynamo", the monster-of-the-day was a really tough, giant-size one that required the use of a really destructive mech to defeat it. While the monster was ultimately beaten, the city of Townsville was utterly trashed by the mech's weapons in the process. So, while the city was saved from the monster, it was harmed even worse by the mech that saved it, making the victory bittersweet.

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:32 AM)

@Nevermore, sounds to me like what one might call a "bittersweet victory". The goal was met, but at great cost or by disastrous result that call into question if the achieved goal could even be called a success.

@  Arvegtor : (10 November 2019 - 09:40 AM)

Seems to be close enough to "Pyrrhic victory"

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 November 2019 - 09:37 AM)

What do you get from putting the German term through a translator?

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 08:57 AM)

That is a ridiculously interesting concept. But I don't think english has a singular term for what you're describing.


Photo

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Discussion - SPOILERS

Marvel Shield Coulson MCU Agents of Shield

2992 replies to this topic

#2981 Nevermore

Nevermore

    Unionized and proud of it.

  • Supporter
  • 12965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 22 July 2019 - 07:49 PM

So, episode 6. (Yeah, I know, I'm still behind.)

MUCH better. At first I wasn't too hot on an episode set primarily in another mind prison, but the fact that Fitz and Simmons were (mostly) lucid helped, and in the end this was exactly the episode their relationship needed at this point. All this tension built up over the past few seasons, all those loose threads like Astronaut Guy (who, despite what Fitz implies, wasn't actually Hive back when Simmons spent time on Maveth), Leopold/The Doctor, Fitz's brain injury and Simmons' away mission in early season 2, their pre-show relationship, all the crap the writers threw at them, all of that is untangled in a very beautiful and at the same time very organic way. These two would have never found the courage to just talk all these things out in the real world, but this mental connection they shared in this episode brought it all to the front, and boy, was that a ride.

The ending with Doctor Leopold and Undead Simmons making out was predictable (I mean, as Fitz himself put it, they represent the "Id" parts of their personalities, so really, the only thing that kinda surprised me was how long they were circling around the containment box and even having a brief conversation instead of immediately jumping each other hot steamy style), but everything pretty much worked flawessly here. Really, this was an absolutely worthy reunion episode.


The only thing that was poorly timed was the final postscript scene. Don't get me wrong - I'm totally on board with undercutting Mack's stupid "dramatic reveal" by having Daisy guess the twist early (I mean, it's a "duh" moment for the audience too), but such a subverted cliché moment would work better in the middle of an episode, not at the very end. It kinda ruins the moment, as Mack correctly points out.

Edited by Nevermore, 22 July 2019 - 07:53 PM.

"'[Foreigners] at least need to be able to speak proper German.' Okay, what the hell is that supposed to be? Proper German'? Where do they speak that? Have you ever been there? Are you German? Can you engage in a conversation in a Swabian pub? Most people from Cologne already fail at asking for directions in the Eifel region."
- Volker Pispers, German comedian

#2982 Nevermore

Nevermore

    Unionized and proud of it.

  • Supporter
  • 12965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 28 July 2019 - 06:56 PM

Episode 7.

Sigh.

It's one of the stupid episodes again. The title kinda says it all...


- So Fitz, Simmons and Enoch end up back on Kitson. And for a super-advanced living computer, Enoch is extremely slow on the uptake all the time. This is bad comedy.
- Sarge is really an idiot, and an a-hole just fore the sake of it. Assuming he really has "noble" intentions (in the broadest sense), what does he gain by playing his game? Wouldn't putting all his information on the table help him speed things up considerably? Unfortunately, the show is playing by "Lost" rules: Characters acting all ominous and deliberately withholding information from other characters (and by proxy, the audience) is meant to create "suspense". I bet when we finally learn what he knows and doesn't tell, it will be another "Why didn't you just say so?" moment.
- I still have to cringe whenever (supposed) bad guys are incarcerated in a prison within the same compound as the main base of the heroes. That's just an invitation for disaster. And then Agent Khan goes into Jaco's cell all by himself, no backup, nothing. And sure enough, Jaco plays the old "prisoner isn't moving" trick. I guess Agent Khan never watched a movie. And then Jaco breathes fire, and this highly trained agent takes ages to call for backup.
- Did I mention yet that I don't care for this whole space arc? Get these guys off Kitson and back to Earth already. I don't care for all these human-looking aliens at all. ... Oh wait. That "Izel" lady is going to turn out to be that mysterious leader of the Shrike, isn't she?
- So they're apprehending two Shrike-infested humans that were headed towards each other... and their best idea is to put them on the same plane, and bring them to their base? At this point SHIELD is driving around in cars with very obvious SHIELD markings in plain public again. Are you going to tell me they still only have one facility? How about, like, a new super-prison like the Sandbox from season 1? Something that's actually equipped to contain dangerous super-beings and doesn't pose a constant risk for SHIELD's very nerve center?
- Also, Mack didn't pick up Sarge's very obvious sarcastic undertone when he told him they had caught two of the Shrike?
- Can't they just drop that stupid module from the plane? Blow it up with napalm or something? No? Oh wait. These things are super-unkillable. And yet totally helpless against cold. Wait.
- That armed SHIELD agent who gets killed after Yo-Yo opens the module door (WHYYYYYYY??????) appears to be mostly brain-dead. Yo-yo explicitly tells him to fire BEFORE she opens the door, then she has to tell him AGAIN when the Shrike start sprouting blades. Then he fires two shots... and then just keeps staring again in disbelief. Did that moron win his SHIELD membership in the lottery or what? This is not even remotely a believable trained solider. Also, Yo-Yo, YOU HAVE SUPER-SPEED! USE IT! Good thing the Shrike are moving in slow motion...
- If it's that cold to insta-freeze the Shrike, why don't Yo-Yo and Agent whatsherface instantly freeze to death as well?
- Also, why do Sarge and his gang bother with these knives? Why not just use liquid nitrogen all the time and call it a day?
- They already saved the plane, Sarge just gave away his only trump, so why exactly does Mack feel the need to uphold his end of the deal? "Scout's honor"? Or did he just realize the writers made him a terrible, incompetent leader for the sake of forced drama?
- So basically all aliens know about Earth and where it is located. Despite humanity only having like two or three ships that are deep space worthy. Suuuure.

Seriously... What a bunch of idiots all around. It's like, we have this supposedly super-capable organization of super-spies, and they're acting like a bunch of noobs with no sense of tactics, strategy or even just plain common sense.

As I said before, I recall the occasional instance of stupid in previous seasons, but nothing even remotely as genre-blind as what is on display this season. It's just bad writing.


Of the original 6 Avengers, it wouldn't surprise me if only Tony doesn't know. Thor's too used to Loki's lies to be fooled by Sif, Cap and Nat would have read it in the SHIELD files, Clint and Hulk, I dunno, probably just saw him on the news or something. Even Pepper probably speaks to him every other week.


It just occurred to me. Wouldn't Black Widow releasing all of SHIELD's secrets to the public mean the public knows ever since Winter Soldier that Coulson is alive, as well?

Edited by Nevermore, 28 July 2019 - 07:08 PM.

"'[Foreigners] at least need to be able to speak proper German.' Okay, what the hell is that supposed to be? Proper German'? Where do they speak that? Have you ever been there? Are you German? Can you engage in a conversation in a Swabian pub? Most people from Cologne already fail at asking for directions in the Eifel region."
- Volker Pispers, German comedian

#2983 Powered Convoy

Powered Convoy

    Skywarp Connoisseur

  • Retired Staff
  • 65980 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::RIRFIB

Posted 29 July 2019 - 07:08 AM

Looks like season 7 will wrap up shooting before the final episode of season 6 airs.

 

 


ACItEK8.png


#2984 Cradok

Cradok
  • Citizen
  • 750 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 July 2019 - 05:20 AM

Can someone please put Yo-Yo in the bin?



#2985 Devcon

Devcon

    'Sup?

  • Retired Staff
  • 11867 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Quebec City, PQ, Canada
  • Faction::RIBFIR

Posted 03 August 2019 - 09:09 PM

So... more time travel.

I'll admit I mostly watched this season out of habit more than anything. And I'll likely do the same for the final one. But that show unfortunately ran for too long. Should have ended with season 5 with May and Coulson riding in the sunset.

But hey,
Spoiler

From the Page of Cage!

#2986 Sabrblade

Sabrblade
  • Citizen
  • 28971 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa, FL
  • Faction::Maximal

Posted 03 August 2019 - 10:13 PM

Spoiler


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#2987 Dvandom

Dvandom

    Purveyor of Ponies. And Physics.

  • Supporter
  • 17072 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amarillo, TX
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 03 August 2019 - 10:32 PM

I wonder if the Season 7 finale will end with SHIELD finally ACTUALLY being in the movie timeline, with everything since S3 being an alternate timeline created by the Monoliths or somesuch.  For instance, while Thanos did make a strike on New York City during the Graviton crisis, he had no Infinity Stones in the SHIELD timeline.

 

---Dave


DAVE'S WEBPAGES
-- www.eyrie.org/~dvandom/BW --
NEWS, REVIEWS and SIGHTINGS
-- www.dvandom.com --
ARTWORK and IMAGES

Pssst...if you
can't see my images,
try my deviantArt!

#2988 Nevermore

Nevermore

    Unionized and proud of it.

  • Supporter
  • 12965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 04 August 2019 - 05:11 PM

Episode 8, "Collision Course, Part 1".

MUCH better. Finally, the characters start using their brains again (for the most part, anyway). Mack is suddenly making all sorts of smart tactical decisions again. Not blindly trusting Sarge, saying he "isn't fluent in vague" (that's kinda meta), insisting on his terms as opposed to Sarge's. And hey, Yo-Yo even remembers she has super-speed! It's almost as if this episode was written by better writers than most of the others (save for "Inescapable")..

So I was right about Izel being that mysterious creator of the Shrike. Surprise, surprise. Sarge certainly isn't entirely upfront about her motives, though - like, if her whole deal is destryoing all life, why didn't she destroy planet Kitson while she was on it? Why target far away Earth instead? There's more to her story, and it has to do with the monoliths.

How did ancient Incas know about Izel again? Was she on Earth before, or what? (Also, Benson is interacting with them offscreen. The actor was unavailable, right? Talk about a "phoned in" contribution.)

Why did they leave only one guard to watch Jaco AND Pax?

Edited by Nevermore, 04 August 2019 - 05:12 PM.

"'[Foreigners] at least need to be able to speak proper German.' Okay, what the hell is that supposed to be? Proper German'? Where do they speak that? Have you ever been there? Are you German? Can you engage in a conversation in a Swabian pub? Most people from Cologne already fail at asking for directions in the Eifel region."
- Volker Pispers, German comedian

#2989 Nevermore

Nevermore

    Unionized and proud of it.

  • Supporter
  • 12965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 11 August 2019 - 06:08 PM

Episode 9, "Collision Course, Part 2".

Another solid episode. No major idiot moments (phew!), just a few instances of characters being slow on the uptake due to dramatic editing:
- When Sarge, Pax and Jaco take over the bridge, these highly-trained SHIELD soldiers sure take their time to react, especially that agent who gets shot as a direct result of hesitating too long before shooting her gun.
- When May opens the truck's door, it takes her an awfully long time to realized the Shrike are coming for that door.
- When scouting that ship, Mack is the first to come around the corner, his gun trained, staring straight into the corridor... and it's only when Jaco comes around the corner that he realizes there's a crewmember walking towards them. Did Mack not see that guy?

Nothing much to say besides that, except the mystery regarding Sarge and his missing memories is vaguely intriguing.

"May" shooting Sarge at the end sure is a ruse. I'm fairly certain Davis never returned from that ship, at least not as himself. He and Jaco split up when they went to confront Izel, and it was "Davis" who claimed she was gone. Pretty sure she either took over his body somehow, or she's a shape-shifter, which would explain "May".

Edited by Nevermore, 11 August 2019 - 06:09 PM.

"'[Foreigners] at least need to be able to speak proper German.' Okay, what the hell is that supposed to be? Proper German'? Where do they speak that? Have you ever been there? Are you German? Can you engage in a conversation in a Swabian pub? Most people from Cologne already fail at asking for directions in the Eifel region."
- Volker Pispers, German comedian

#2990 Nevermore

Nevermore

    Unionized and proud of it.

  • Supporter
  • 12965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 02 September 2019 - 05:03 PM

Okay, so after a few kinda, sorta good episodes with characters that weren't constantly finding new ways to be stupid, the season finale left me with some mixed feelings.

Spoiler



May I also point out how tired I am of characters (Daisy, Simmons, to a lesser degree Fitz) constantly being given new hairstyles for each new season? I mean, it works occasionally, but at this point it has become a joke. What was up with those odd purple strands in Daisy's hair this season?

Edited by Nevermore, 02 September 2019 - 05:11 PM.

"'[Foreigners] at least need to be able to speak proper German.' Okay, what the hell is that supposed to be? Proper German'? Where do they speak that? Have you ever been there? Are you German? Can you engage in a conversation in a Swabian pub? Most people from Cologne already fail at asking for directions in the Eifel region."
- Volker Pispers, German comedian

#2991 Powered Convoy

Powered Convoy

    Skywarp Connoisseur

  • Retired Staff
  • 65980 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::RIRFIB

Posted 02 September 2019 - 05:53 PM

What was up with those odd purple strands in Daisy's hair this season?


It's to tie into her Marvel Rising look, which Chloe Bennett voices.

Quake.jpg

Also because Asian women can't not have some color in their hair in cartoons and comics.
:wtf

ACItEK8.png


#2992 Nevermore

Nevermore

    Unionized and proud of it.

  • Supporter
  • 12965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 03 September 2019 - 07:29 AM

That's a very odd tie-in.

Also:

Spoiler

Edited by Nevermore, 03 September 2019 - 07:37 AM.

"'[Foreigners] at least need to be able to speak proper German.' Okay, what the hell is that supposed to be? Proper German'? Where do they speak that? Have you ever been there? Are you German? Can you engage in a conversation in a Swabian pub? Most people from Cologne already fail at asking for directions in the Eifel region."
- Volker Pispers, German comedian

#2993 Sabrblade

Sabrblade
  • Citizen
  • 28971 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa, FL
  • Faction::Maximal

Posted 03 September 2019 - 09:02 AM

That's a very odd tie-in.

 

It's just a case of brand consistency, making two versions of the same character (even played by the same actress) have something in common with each other, visually.


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.



Reply to this topic



  



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users