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@  wonko the sane? : (23 January 2018 - 07:02 AM)

He's actually interfacing with the public and is generally charismatic. He's no more effective than harper, but at least he can work a room.

@  Locoman : (23 January 2018 - 12:39 AM)

-shrugs- He says the right things more often, at least.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (22 January 2018 - 11:03 PM)

Well is Trudeau an improvement over Harper?

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 10:54 PM)

Most of the country is sick of trudeau, they very well might get in anyway. Might as well vote for the shmuck who actually wants to do good, but will accidentally screw it up, over the shmucks who'll lie about it.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 07:14 PM)

Voting NDP is how the Conservatives get in, though

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 07:12 PM)

because the road to hell is, after all, paved with good intentions.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 07:12 PM)

There isn't one of those in this lot. Vote for the one whom won't deliberately do damage... so NDP.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 07:09 PM)

I usually feel an obligation to vote in any election, but I honestly won't know who to vote for next time around. I don't like any of them, and I think the best we can hope for is someone who won't do any more damage

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 07:04 PM)

Pretending to try to figure out how to undo the absolutely flawless system of wealth concentration they and their predecessors designed

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 07:04 PM)

Well, they're all off to Davos now, supposedly to lament the horribly skewed wealth distribution that's gotten even worse since last year's meeting

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 07:03 PM)

Conversely, being impressed by politicians isn't something you should be happy about.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 07:02 PM)

The other side of the canadian coin right now is a harper clone. If trudeau runs again, the choice is NDP or liberal. It all depends on how the NDP plays out under the new guy, but so far I am unimpressed.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 07:00 PM)

I don't disagree. Trudeau is a clown and he's been a huge disappointment. I was naive enough to believe he'd actually stick to his word and do something to help the middle class. He's never getting my vote again

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 07:00 PM)

This little raptor is freaking BOSS! Also, I've been drinking, so kinda mellow.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 07:00 PM)

Been playing with slash for the last hour though, totally worth it.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 06:59 PM)

After duties and the exchange AND shipping. I'm not even going to bother appealing, it'll take ages and achieve nothing.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 06:59 PM)

I assuming it was toys, and those have a 0% duty rate even when the object isn't of North American manufacture. In that case, it just should've been taxes and the processing fee

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 06:58 PM)

We won't get it. Nothing the trudeau government has done has actually helped the end level canadian citizen, and with trump on the other side: it'll only get worse.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 06:58 PM)

Wonko, if you feel the customs weren't assessed properly you can always contact them to appeal. Generally, the fee should only be taxes (GST/QST in your case) + duties (if applicable, depending on the type of item where it was made) + Canada Post's processing fee. If the item was properly valued on the parcel, it usually shouldn't reach paid twice territory

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 06:49 PM)

One of the things I'm hoping comes out of these NAFTA talks (assuming they don't kill it) is Canada adopting an increased duty-free limit. $20 compared to the American's $800 is really ridiculous

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 06:47 PM)

Stuff sent via more expensive shipping methods, though, might attract their attention more often

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 06:46 PM)

Although it might depend what method it was sent via USPS. Pretty much the only things I receive from the US anymore in Canada are sent First Class Parcel (which is trackable), and I don't think Customs really scrutinizes those ones that much

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 06:41 PM)

In fact I almost never get charged. Only when the stated value on the package is in the extreme range, like $300 or more

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 06:41 PM)

Strange the duties were so high. I've been hit by UPS with their insane fees, but I've always had good experiences with USPS and Canada Post

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 05:36 PM)

USPS then canada post.

@  RichardT1977 : (22 January 2018 - 05:25 PM)

Very carefully, I hope

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 January 2018 - 03:32 PM)

How was it delivered?

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 02:24 PM)

the duties pushed the cost of it into "paid twice" range.

@  Benbot : (22 January 2018 - 02:06 PM)

Well, at least hospitalization won't send you into bankruptcy. There's always that.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (22 January 2018 - 01:52 PM)

o.O

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 01:40 PM)

And not happy anymore. 40 bucks on duties. Free trade my ass.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 January 2018 - 11:26 AM)

Yay! I should get my package from BBTS today!

@  Arazyr : (22 January 2018 - 10:50 AM)

Okay, now I get the snake thing. Thanks for the Pokemon reference. It was a bit after my time... 8^)

@  CastletonSnob : (22 January 2018 - 08:05 AM)

This is a Transformers fansite. Do you like big bots and you cannot lie?

@  Telly : (22 January 2018 - 03:32 AM)

no. was just making a silly/stupid joke

@  TheMightyMol... : (22 January 2018 - 03:22 AM)

Onyx is a stone. Onix is a rock snake. Do you even Pokemon, bro?

@  Telly : (22 January 2018 - 02:44 AM)

could be a rock made of snakes. we just dont know!

@  Foffy : (22 January 2018 - 02:15 AM)

He is a snake made of rock, though

@  Jetstream C-18 : (21 January 2018 - 08:56 PM)

No, Onyx is a snake.

@  Arazyr : (21 January 2018 - 01:12 PM)

Something I only just "got" last night: Of course IDW's GB Blackrock is associated with Onyx Prime. Onyx is a black rock.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (21 January 2018 - 07:37 AM)

Bet a lot of military people won't want to work this monday. ;(

@  Pennpenn : (21 January 2018 - 07:27 AM)

It seems sort of intuitive for a lot of people because it's the first day in the week that you're working.

@  Nevermore : (21 January 2018 - 04:54 AM)

Germany considers Monday the first day of the week.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (21 January 2018 - 01:34 AM)

The judge obviously had a more material motive than the one he claimed, there need to be some serious investigation of that case.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 January 2018 - 05:04 PM)

The reason is even worse. :(

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 January 2018 - 04:34 PM)

That moron is a shame to his profession.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 January 2018 - 09:34 AM)

I just think a Judge going on and Jury Tampering, trying to make the Jury think a sex taffiker is innocent is sickening. *won't say why he did that as that goes in P&R*

@  Sabrblade : (20 January 2018 - 09:21 AM)

Heh, the schedules for my work weeks begin with Saturday

@  wonko the sane? : (20 January 2018 - 07:01 AM)

Thing about the US is... you can say that any time you want as much as you want. You're still going to get shot, but it might not be because you said that though.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (20 January 2018 - 02:20 AM)

You just did.


Photo
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Aligned Continuity Transformers Anatomy


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30 replies to this topic

#1 Tyranno

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:48 PM

the last episode of Prime has led me to think about this, and I was wondering what others thought. From "Shadowzone", we know some parts of a Transformer are customizable, removable, or upgradable components, while "Operation: Bumblebee" shows us that T-Cogs and voiceboxes are essentially equivalent to organs and are not so easily replaceable. One can infer that Breakdown's eye is the same case.

Personally, I'd think that a transformers internals, housed in the torso and head at least, are where all the "organs" are. Arms, weapons, and anything that can be adapted by scanning a vehicle mode - while under the control systems of the transformation cog, naturally - are all removable and replaceable like Starscream and Skyquake's arm. Basically, they're compatible technology, but not "essential" to survival.

Naturally, I'd also assume the head is important, given what happened to Tailgate, and the torso itself is important due to Cliffjumper dying when he was impaled there.

Thoughts?

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#2 Phlis

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:52 PM

QUOTE(Razorsaw @ Mar 13 2012, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the last episode of Prime has led me to think about this, and I was wondering what others thought. From "Shadowzone", we know some parts of a Transformer are customizable, removable, or upgradable components, while "Operation: Bumblebee" shows us that T-Cogs and voiceboxes are essentially equivalent to organs and are not so easily replaceable. One can infer that Breakdown's eye is the same case.

Personally, I'd think that a transformers internals, housed in the torso and head at least, are where all the "organs" are. Arms, weapons, and anything that can be adapted by scanning a vehicle mode - while under the control systems of the transformation cog, naturally - are all removable and replaceable like Starscream and Skyquake's arm. Basically, they're compatible technology, but not "essential" to survival.

Naturally, I'd also assume the head is important, given what happened to Tailgate, and the torso itself is important due to Cliffjumper dying when he was impaled there.

Thoughts?


If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.

#3 Rosicrucian

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:57 PM

The crew in Prime seems to have limited resources. They've adapted what human technology they can, and Cybertronian technology is hard to come by.

But heck, even in G1 transformation cogs were something you couldn't just make another of easily. Metroplex's cog had to be manufactured on Cybertron and sent to Earth, not fabricated onsite.

#4 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.


No. The problem is you're trying to draw a direct corollary between human tech and transformers tech and there doesn't have to be one. An arm can be the equal to replacing a car's tire and a transformers eye or voicebox can still be an organ that is beyond their technology to recreate or reinstall.

We can do a heart transplant but we can't make a new heart. We can build hearing aids but not an artificial eye. We can't do a "stomach transplant". Livining entities are complex things. There's no necessary reason at all that making an eye should equal making an arm. One could be very simple, the other impossible, and that's logically fine.

My BIG BIG question raised by all this is how TFs are "Born" in Prime continuity? Where do they come from and how are they made to begin with. The show hasn't adressed this at all that I recall and I think it's a big deal in terms of understanding them as far as biology goes.


-ZacWilliam, Exodus brushes across it very briefly IIRC but it's hard to tell how much of that is in continuity with Prime...

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 13 March 2012 - 08:37 PM.

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#5 Walky

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:46 PM

TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

#6 2018

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

Transformers work like Strogg.

PM me if you're bored!


#7 Somebody

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:06 PM

QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Mar 14 2012, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

The thing about that scene that gets me is that Arcee didn't always have a motorcycle engine. When she came to Earth, she scanned a motorbike and reconstructed aspects of her technobiology to match human motorbikes, including an engine similar to the one Jack was studying. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that there's enough conscious involvement in the scanning process that she should have a pretty good understanding of how her own alt-mode is put together.

Now, asking her to explain how a spark or neural processor works, I can easily understand her not knowing THAT ("You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a human brain?). Or, taking another tack, if she was reconstructed by external technology - ala the bots on the G1 Ark rebuilt by Teletran-1/Auntie, or the fleshy-coat bots on the Axalon in BW, etc - rather than an internal scanner/reconstructor thing as the movie & Prime bots use, I could buy her not understanding a motorbike intimately.

Think of it as the difference between asking you to draw me a Joyce or Leslie without reference, and asking you to draw me a medical diagram of a retina without reference. The former you intimately know, just as Arcee scanned a bike very closely so she could reconstruct herself and be indistinguishable from it to human eyes. The latter, well, you use a retina all the time, but you don't need to know how it works in normal circumstances, just as Arcee doesn't need to know anything about her spark or brain as long as they keep on tickin'...

Edited by Somebody, 13 March 2012 - 09:19 PM.


#8 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:16 PM


Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."


#9 Tyranno

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:23 PM

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. The process is automated and controlled entirely by the T-cog. Arcee doesn't have to think to reformat herself at all.

"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


- Amethyst Schaber, http://neurowonderful.tumblr.com/

#10 Phlis

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Mar 13 2012, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If this is ever delved into more it will never be explained in a way that makes sense past: Technology is stuff they build, Biology is stuff inside them. Like, an arm is replaceable but an eye or voice box isn't. Are video cameras and speakers harder to make then articulated servos?

The whole idea is going to be a convoluted mess.


No. The problem is you're trying to draw a direct corollary between human tech and transformers tech and there doesn't have to be one. An arm can be the equal to replacing a car's tire and a transformers eye or voicebox can still be an organ that is beyond their technology to recreate or reinstall.

-ZacWilliam


I'm not really trying to draw a line, I really just don't think there will be an explanation past these things are biology and these other things are technology because we say so. And it will lead to problems along the lines of why can this get fixed but this can't?

I mean I get it, universal things, things shared by all transformers (eyes, voice, spark, T-Cog, w/e else they come up with) are probably meant to be biology. I also realize they probably don't have the resources to fix these things while on Earth. But at the same time, lets not short change their technology level. They have built instantaneous transport between two places in gate form, as well as galaxy spanning space ships. We (humans) are almost able to grow Hearts, it's a thing we will probably be doing in 10 years. It is very expensive but we have the tech to do it, and understanding of our own biology to do so. Transformers far surpass us. A Doctor, back to transformers, should know the intimate workings of every "organ" in the Transformer's body. A field medic like Ratchet would at least have enough knowledge to do repairs/replacement.


#11 Liege

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:51 PM

IIRC Didn't Brakedown say he chose not to replace his eye as a way to remember his failure or something to that effect in the episode after Operation Brakedown?
QUOTE(NightViper @ Aug 3 2013, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Escargon @ Aug 1 2013, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And Liege, you're words really have had an effect on me. It made me relise I've shouldn't care about what others think of me, I should only care about what I think of myself.

Liege is a small dude with a lot of wisdom.

Well one of those descriptive words is accurate I suppose!

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#12 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:25 PM

QUOTE(Phlis @ Mar 13 2012, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not really trying to draw a line, I really just don't think there will be an explanation past these things are biology and these other things are technology because we say so. And it will lead to problems along the lines of why can this get fixed but this can't?


Why do you think that? I mean why would they need an explanation for why some parts of a being are easily fixable/replaceable and some are not? That's just the way living beings are. And why would this be in any way a problem in future stories?

I think you're imagining a problem that doesn't and will not exist.


-ZacWilliam, it will adjust to fit the needs of the story as it always has and should. Beast Wars was horribly all over the map on what constituted serious injury or not when ever it suited the plot or comic relief and no one cared. No one is likely to care here either if we someday find out you can replace a head in one episode but not a transappedix in another.

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 13 March 2012 - 10:26 PM.

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#13 Axaday

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:50 PM

QUOTE(Thylacine2000 @ Mar 13 2012, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."


Everybody here is probably already aware of this, but this is an exceptionally good post.

#14 Starfield

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:08 AM

One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.

#15 Kalidor

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:58 AM

Like our clothes right?

#16 mx-01 archon

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:43 AM

QUOTE(Starfield @ Mar 13 2012, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.


Remember Animated? "Electronic Paint"

#17 Destron D-69

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:11 AM

its likely something simple. If ratchet can't build it from scraps ... its biologically Cybertronian


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#18 Starfield

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE(Kalidor @ Mar 14 2012, 02:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like our clothes right?

Hey. Here are some naked aligned continuity Transformers. When they scanned vehicles, they changed colors.


QUOTE(mx-01 archon @ Mar 14 2012, 03:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Starfield @ Mar 13 2012, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the episodes, probably featuring Knock Out, establishes that Transformers are painted. That's pretty weird. I would think the external color of a living machine would be part of the living part. That way superficial scratches and minor damage could heal. Also, the colors would be mis-matched when they scanned a new trans-form until they got a new paint job.


Remember Animated? "Electronic Paint"

If I remember correctly, it sounded more like regular old paint in the Prime episode.

#19 Cybersnark

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE(ZacWilliam1 @ Mar 13 2012, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We can do a heart transplant but we can't make a new heart.

Yes we can. In fact, Dick Cheney has one (and no pulse).
QUOTE
We can build hearing aids but not an artificial eye.

Getting there.

#20 Shockwave 75

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE(Somebody @ Mar 13 2012, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Code of Walky @ Mar 14 2012, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TFPrime finally addresses something I'd grown weary about over the several decades of Transformers. Transformers are living machines! ...but so are humans.

Just because you're a machine doesn't mean you know how to build yourself. There are aspects of our anatomy that will always be just outside our understanding, even though they're a part of us. Why would it be any different for a Transformer?

Arcee said it best in "Masters & Students": "You're a human, Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?"

The thing about that scene that gets me is that Arcee didn't always have a motorcycle engine. When she came to Earth, she scanned a motorbike and reconstructed aspects of her technobiology to match human motorbikes, including an engine similar to the one Jack was studying. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that there's enough conscious involvement in the scanning process that she should have a pretty good understanding of how her own alt-mode is put together.

Uh, no.

QUOTE(Thylacine2000 @ Mar 13 2012, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Arcee is not a motorcycle. She mimics one. She has built-in propulsion devices and power sources, and so by changing the shape of her body she is able to mimic a motorcycle closely enough to fool stupid organics. Think of a deer hunter wearing camouflage - he isn't really a bush, and he very well might not understand how plant glycolysis works, even though both he and a real bush are made out of carbon and by twitching his fingers he can make fake "leaves" appear to "blow in the wind."

Yes! A perfect example is from the G1 episode "Make Tracks". When Raul open's Track's hood and is completely baffled by what he sees inside. It just makes him even more stupid that he just decided to cut a wire without knowing what it does.

This is also one of the reasons I really don't think that TF's would really have a livable interior, city-bots not withstanding. Why would they need one? The just have to look like a car, not actually be a car. Sufficiently tinted "windows" (cuz I doubt they're actually made of glass) and you can hide all your extraneous robot doo-dads and gee-gogs inside and no one would be the wiser. Hell, I doubt they'd even have functioning doors!
"Robots in disguise" to me means just that, that they're in disguise. Dressed up, if you will, as cars and such.

I can wear a Superman costume, but it doesn't actually make me Superman.

Edited by Shockwave 75, 14 March 2012 - 11:57 AM.



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