10235 replies to this topic

[Fortress Ironhold]

Wow - so much drama in such a short post. And I don't know a thing about any of it (nor do I need to know thank you, that's half the battle I could care less about).

Suffice it to say it's a pretty dull figure on its own merits. Though, isn't that head just Bench Press with a lighter brown goatee instead of the dark brown beard? Sure looks like him anyway.

I was there at the time, and so I witnessed the carnage first-hand.

The long and short of it is that, due to the circumstances behind the decision to make the 2001 figures Surefire and Big Brawler into homages, a very large percentage of the active Joe fandom at the time erupted in a ball of fury at both Hasbro and the people being homaged because they felt personally offended.

It was really, really ugly, and as such for the purposes of my own Joe-Verse I quite promptly rewrote their file cards to tone them both down.

[Fortress Ironhold]

I do tend to agree with Detour on principle here.

Of the still hundreds of characters left undone (and most will probably NEVER be touched by Hasbro), we get a remake of a vanity figure with a new headsculpt and some of the newest ranges of tooling we know about (he uses parts from the Law figure THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN RELEASED). With all the tooling available (ish), we couldn't get Nunchuck, Dart, Heavy Duty, Hi-Tech, or (considering how much arctic stuff Hasbro has done over the past 4 years) a decent V1 Frostbite (who would just need a new head)?

Not only that, but I just don't think the product is very good. For the trends collectors have been clamoring for (grounded, PoC like colors and aesthetics), Sure Fire really sticks out as being excessively bright in color

To me, though, if we get a DEF Shockwave out of the deal I'd be willing to go along with it.

If nothing else, replace the greens with a mix of dark blues & the figure would fit in with the movie aesthetics.

[Detour]

I was there at the time, and so I witnessed the carnage first-hand.

The long and short of it is that, due to the circumstances behind the decision to make the 2001 figures Surefire and Big Brawler into homages, a very large percentage of the active Joe fandom at the time erupted in a ball of fury at both Hasbro and the people being homaged because they felt personally offended.

It was really, really ugly, and as such for the purposes of my own Joe-Verse I quite promptly rewrote their file cards to tone them both down.

That's only a fragment of David Lane's infamy, though.

You see, back in the 90's and early double-0's, a fan named Rod Hannah ran a website called Zartan's Domain. The website also featured a public message board. Meanwhile, David Lane ran a fanclub called the Steel Brigade fanclub, which had been around for a few years and while it wasn't an official fanclub, Hasbro did recognize its existence. It had a rep for being quite elitist, picking and choosing its members among other things.
When a random member of the Zartan's Domain message board posted his personal thoughts on the SB club, Lane basically tried to pass himself off as Hasbro itself and slap Rod with pretend C&Ds and even threatened Rod's ISP.

And then there's 2006, when the Convention set got that horrible, poor quality Cobra Mortal that was essentially a straight remake of the original except with swivel arms (something the Club had never done before or since!) basically because Mr. Lane, despite being one of those "higher-end" fans with the budget, didn't want to spring for the classic one.

If nothing else, replace the greens with a mix of dark blues & the figure would fit in with the movie aesthetics.

The Club claims that Hasbro didn't let them use the original blue/black colors because Hasbro said it'd make it too similar to Law. But considering how they had earlier claimed Hasbro wouldn't let them use recent tooling only to pull this BS on us, well...

[NightViper]

If nothing else, replace the greens with a mix of dark blues & the figure would fit in with the movie aesthetics.

The Club claims that Hasbro didn't let them use the original blue/black colors because Hasbro said it'd make it too similar to Law. But considering how they had earlier claimed Hasbro wouldn't let them use recent tooling only to pull this BS on us, well...

Well, what molds Fun Pub can or can't use fluctuates all the time. What's true for one figure might not be true for the next.

But making the colors the same as the retail version of the mold? That's pretty much always going to be avoided.

[Detour]

Well, what molds Fun Pub can or can't use fluctuates all the time. What's true for one figure might not be true for the next.

I find it very hard to believe that they could be in the middle of doing these subscription figures and all of a sudden Hasbro would be all "Hey, you guys can use our newest toolings!" right as they got to Sure Fire.
To get approval for such a system, it seems more likely that they'd submitted all 13 figure ideas at once.

[Dake]

How about a change up? I may be late to the party but I saw this over at Hisstank and thought it deserved a spot here.

AMazing Collection:

Edited by Dake, 12 November 2011 - 02:19 PM.

[Luke]

Here's the drama as I understand it...

Club: Hey, here's a figure of a fourth-stringer we've been featuring in our fiction for a few years now.

Half the fandom: HOW DARE YOU. This is a source of a great and terrible angst because of some internet crap that happened a decade ago on message boards that either don't exist or are no longer relevant, but we will not let go of.

The other half: We have mixed reactions dependent on feelings regarding the actual figure.

Additionally, here at the Allspark...

Detour: The Club is always lying to us and saving the best for their own stuff!

NightViper: It doesn't work the way you think it does, and there's some good reasons why some of the things you want don't happen.

Detour: Yeah? Well you're wrong. It clearly works the way I say it does.

[Monzo]

And then there's 2006, when the Convention set got that horrible, poor quality Cobra Mortal that was essentially a straight remake of the original except with swivel arms (something the Club had never done before or since!) basically because Mr. Lane, despite being one of those "higher-end" fans with the budget, didn't want to spring for the classic one.

And the crime in wanting the fandom at large to have the chance to get a cheaper copy of an extraordinarily rare, extraordinarily expensive figure that Hasbro would never redo themselves is...?

[Detour]

Club: Hey, here's a figure of a fourth-stringer we've been featuring in our fiction for a few years now.

Yeah. Nobody ever discusses the fiction. Not even the convention comics. That should give you a good idea of the quality of it.
And besides. Who do you think made it so Sure Fire was in the fiction to begin with?

[Walky]

Well, what molds Fun Pub can or can't use fluctuates all the time. What's true for one figure might not be true for the next.

I find it very hard to believe that they could be in the middle of doing these subscription figures and all of a sudden Hasbro would be all "Hey, you guys can use our newest toolings!" right as they got to Sure Fire.

Then you've never worked with Hasbro before.

[Powered Convoy]

I've been given the impression from Fun Pub at the various BotCons that Hasbro is a very fickle bitch.

We hear all the time how things that applied to them once before no longer apply, and how things that they were once able to do, they can no longer do.

Randy

[Walky]

Remember when within a matter of months, BotCon Cheetor went from TransTech Cheetor (because Hasbro would let them use the Animated toys but not their universe) to actual Animated Cheetor, co-star in an entire Animated themed year?

And that's just recent memory. I'm still traumatized from the whiplash in the later Glen Hallit years.

[Luke]

Club: Hey, here's a figure of a fourth-stringer we've been featuring in our fiction for a few years now.

Yeah. Nobody ever discusses the fiction. Not even the convention comics. That should give you a good idea of the quality of it.

This probably won't surprise you, but I discuss it with several friends. I enjoy quite a bit of it. The Club consistently provides some of my favorite GI Joe fiction right now (I will be a VERY sad fanboy when Adventure Team leaves the spotlight).

I've actually been thinking that a Joe Mag thread would be a good idea to bring some others out of the woodwork. Currently I'm just kind of weighing comic/non-comic content to decide where to go with it and waiting on the next issue so there's something fresh to start with.

And besides. Who do you think made it so Sure Fire was in the fiction to begin with?

Yeah... because if you were writing fiction and had a figure that patterned after you that had never ever seen fiction, the last thing you'd do is rectify that. Good god, the HORROR.

I'll freely admit to not having read every appearance of Sure-Fire, but I don't recall any hyped-buildup or overuse. He was just there, getting some facetime--GI Joe has so many characters that "facetime appearances" are standard. Yeah, this case is somewhat different, but the entirety of your complaining is based in some ridiculous meta-grudge from 10 years ago and has very little to do with the character and nothing to do with how he was used.

Edited by Lukeblast, 13 November 2011 - 04:18 AM.

[TrentTroop]

Detour, if you have any particular critiques of the convention comics, please share. I've seen some reviews in various corners, Blood for the Baron, for instance, but part of growing as a writer is listening to reviews, positive and negative alike.

-Trent

[Detour]

Detour, if you have any particular critiques of the convention comics, please share. I've seen some reviews in various corners, Blood for the Baron, for instance, but part of growing as a writer is listening to reviews, positive and negative alike.

I wish I had some, but I didn't even know it existed up until about halfway through all these subscription figures. In spite of being part of multiple Joe communities.

In fact at some point recently someone described what the Joe club comic/newsletter was like and the comic was not even mentionned.
Any time con sets are discussed, it's all about the toys. Never see any discussion about the comics, and the first time I was even aware a comic had been produced was for the 2009 con set (and even then it was just for a few character scans in a review of the toys), and heard no mention of comics in the following two con sets.

I dunno... I mean, I guess I know now they exist, but unlike the TF fanclub's fiction it seems to be largely ignored by the fandom at large.

The closest thing to a critique of the fiction I'd heard came from Sure Fire's reveal, who criticized Sure Fire's inclusion in said Club fiction as being "a lame mary sue shoehorned in at Lane's insistance".


So.... yeah. Sorry, there's just not much to comment on when I don't even HEAR about the stories. I don't know what else to tell you, I mean you and Siph wrote a lot of killer TF fiction.

[NightViper]

Detour, if you have any particular critiques of the convention comics, please share. I've seen some reviews in various corners, Blood for the Baron, for instance, but part of growing as a writer is listening to reviews, positive and negative alike.

I wish I had some, but I didn't even know it existed up until about halfway through all these subscription figures. In spite of being part of multiple Joe communities.

In fact at some point recently someone described what the Joe club comic/newsletter was like and the comic was not even mentionned.
Any time con sets are discussed, it's all about the toys. Never see any discussion about the comics, and the first time I was even aware a comic had been produced was for the 2009 con set (and even then it was just for a few character scans in a review of the toys), and heard no mention of comics in the following two con sets.

I dunno... I mean, I guess I know now they exist, but unlike the TF fanclub's fiction it seems to be largely ignored by the fandom at large.

The closest thing to a critique of the fiction I'd heard came from Sure Fire's reveal, who criticized Sure Fire's inclusion in said Club fiction as being "a lame mary sue shoehorned in at Lane's insistance".


So.... yeah. Sorry, there's just not much to comment on when I don't even HEAR about the stories. I don't know what else to tell you, I mean you and Siph wrote a lot of killer TF fiction.

Okay, a few things that hopefully clear some things up.

The Joe Club Newsletter, for the most part, did not have a comic. Maybe one snuck in for the last issue, I'd have to double-check. The comics didn't really start until the Joe Club switched over to the same "Magazine" format that the Transformers Club uses. Which was probably just under two years ago.

As for the convention comics, I believe that the 2008 Headhunters comic was the first of those. That story did have Sure Fire in it, but he was constantly being trashed by the other Joes in the comic. The only time he entered anything resembling that "bad-ass Mary Sue" realm was when he shot two Headhunter soldiers that tried to get the drop on him. But really, that was somewhat tame compared to the heroics from the other Joes in the comic. And, well, for GI Joe comics everywhere.

David Lane does work closely with the writers for the GI Joe comics. He is the editor after all. So he does offer suggestions for the story and characters all the time. For this year's Club comics, Dave suggested Sure Fire. Not insisted, but suggested. Since the Dial-Tone story arc featured the Joes from the 2008 Headhunters comic rather heavily, it made sense to have him in the planning/coordinating phase of the mission.

[Luke]

Yeah. Nobody ever discusses the fiction. Not even the convention comics. That should give you a good idea of the quality of it.

I wish I had some, but I didn't even know it existed up until about halfway through all these subscription figures.

The closest thing to a critique of the fiction I'd heard came from Sure Fire's reveal, who criticized Sure Fire's inclusion in said Club fiction as being "a lame mary sue shoehorned in at Lane's insistance".

So.... yeah. Sorry, there's just not much to comment on when I don't even HEAR about the stories. I don't know what else to tell you, I mean you and Siph wrote a lot of killer TF fiction.

Wait, hold up.

So you're throwing out assumptions of the quality of things you've never read and barely heard about, and the little bit you did hear conveniently reaffirmed your mad-on. Instead of admitting such upfront, you offered it as proof that the Club shouldn't make an updated figure of a guy they've featured in their fiction.



No, I'm pretty sure that means FunPub just needs some better press.

Edited by Lukeblast, 13 November 2011 - 11:17 AM.

[Walky]

Yeah. Nobody ever discusses the fiction. Not even the convention comics. That should give you a good idea of the quality of it.

I wish I had some, but I didn't even know it existed up until about halfway through all these subscription figures.

The closest thing to a critique of the fiction I'd heard came from Sure Fire's reveal, who criticized Sure Fire's inclusion in said Club fiction as being "a lame mary sue shoehorned in at Lane's insistance".

So.... yeah. Sorry, there's just not much to comment on when I don't even HEAR about the stories. I don't know what else to tell you, I mean you and Siph wrote a lot of killer TF fiction.

Wait, hold up.

So you're throwing out assumptions of the quality of things you've never read and barely heard about, and the little bit you did hear conveniently reaffirmed your mad-on. Instead of admitting such upfront, you offered it as proof that the Club shouldn't make an updated figure of a guy they've featured in their fiction.

Oy.

[NightViper]

BTW, this is how Sure Fire looks in the Club fiction:

Attached Thumbnails

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[Walky]

DAVID LANE TOLD YOU TO POST THAT DIDN'T HE???????????

WILL HIS EVIL EVER END??????????