8665 replies to this topic

[HellCat]

Indeed. And to be completely fair, Voyage of the Damned was humorous in the aspect that it was stated London was evacuated mainly because something bad always happens on Christmas.

Though, in regards to lazy writing, Voyage of the Damned is guilty of this just as much as the current Moffat specials are. The Poseidon Adventure parallels and all that.

That's true and to be honest I was surprised someone hadn't mentioned it sooner. However, that's basically one against Moffat's current score of two. I can forgive RTD for doing a special based on something else because he'd already tried to give us two previous specials that were original. Moffat has just gone straight for 'Doctor Who does...'.

Also, to clarify, I don't hate Moffat. I am dissapointed in his tenure but that's mainly because I know he can do better and he's kind of been repeating himself (or RTD, by subjecting us to yet another year of 'The Doctor knows he's going to die soon and tries to run'). The fact that I'm expecting better of a veteran professional is not trashing the guy.

[Rust]

That's true and to be honest I was surprised someone hadn't mentioned it sooner. However, that's basically one against Moffat's current score of two. I can forgive RTD for doing a special based on something else because he'd already tried to give us two previous specials that were original.

Original, but hardly gripping.

Christmas Invasion was horribly Doctor-lite, especially seeing as how it was Tennant's premiere performance and he spent the vast majority of the episode asleep. At the time, it wasn't exactly a great start to a new Doctor.

The Runaway Bride wasn't exactly the best episode out of the gate either. Donna was extremely annoying, and unlike Christmas Invasion or Voyage of the Damned, it barely registered as a Christmas Special. The only Christmas imagery was the Father Christmas Robot that was recycled from the previous year.


I'll admit, "Doctor Who Does..." can be a bit of a downer, and Moffat's vast multi-part epic is starting to wear thin but ultimately I think the series is doing nothing but improving as the years go by and that includes the Christmas Specials.

[HellCat]

That's true and to be honest I was surprised someone hadn't mentioned it sooner. However, that's basically one against Moffat's current score of two. I can forgive RTD for doing a special based on something else because he'd already tried to give us two previous specials that were original.

Original, but hardly gripping.

Christmas Invasion was horribly Doctor-lite, especially seeing as how it was Tennant's premiere performance and he spent the vast majority of the episode asleep. At the time, it wasn't exactly a great start to a new Doctor.

The Runaway Bride wasn't exactly the best episode out of the gate either. Donna was extremely annoying, and unlike Christmas Invasion or Voyage of the Damned, it barely registered as a Christmas Special. The only Christmas imagery was the Father Christmas Robot that was recycled from the previous year.


I'll admit, "Doctor Who Does..." can be a bit of a downer, and Moffat's vast multi-part epic is starting to wear thin but ultimately I think the series is doing nothing but improving as the years go by and that includes the Christmas Specials.

Fair points and I'll agree. You only have to look at the Miracle Day thread to see I'll give RTD stick at times and I remember some back and forth here when VOTD first aired, with me on the 'It was ok, but not awesome' side. For one thing, that slow mo bit with the Doctor ascending via the Hosts....still a 'What the hell?' moment.

[Rust]

Eh. It still beats Last of the Time Lords where the Doctor beats the Master thanks to everyone in the world believing in him a la Fortress Maximus in Robots in Disguise.

That still pisses me off. I legitimately love all of Season Three (Yes, even Daleks in Manhattan), up until A Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords. The whole season was brilliant...and then we got Simms terrible portrayal of the Master (Which I don't fault Simms for) and the Doctor winning through a overused and cliche Anime Trope.

I mean, I'll carry on about The End of Time, but that's partly in good humor. Season Three finale?

What makes it even worse is, unlike Love and Monsters which is just straight up dreck from beginning to end, there are legitimately good segments and ideas being utilized. The Master's dealing with the Reporter and the Cabinet are both darkly humorous, and his hunting of Martha gives us a glimpse of a truly terrifying nemesis of the Doctor (And it's why I don't blame Simms for the Master's sub-par portrayal).

...

Wait. How did I go from Christmas Specials to the Season Three finale? I'm not sure I can even follow my own logic path here, but the point still stands...I suppose. I guess what I'm trying to say is Moffat would have to intentionally try and write something worse then Last of the Time Lords for me to condemn it.

[HellCat]

I liked Last of the Time Lords

[Blueshift]

Love and Monsters was great, hush you!

Last of the Time Lords left me cold when I first saw it, mostly because of the bizarre decision to take Tennant out of the mix for most of the ep, when it was his interaction with Simm which made the previous ep so great.

The day is saved because the Master has used the Archangel network to low-level hypnotise the planet, so getting everyone to believe in the Doctor at the same time throws the system into reverse and lets the Doctor defeat the Master using his own methods. Unfortunately that part is mentioned so briefly it is easy to miss first time, so it looks like the Doctor is just using magic.

[HellCat]

Yeah, I'm always amazed people fail to grasp that. Especially from a fanbase that will defend similar but even more wonky examples in other stories.

[Shadewing]

Yeah, I'm always amazed people fail to grasp that. Especially from a fanbase that will defend similar but even more wonky examples in other stories.

Not to mention, that for any old school fan or recent fan that's seen the old stuff, Master admits that his biggest fear is exactly this; a super-powered Dcotor. It feels like RTD was reference that old line, in the way he gets defeated here. All his work is turned against him in a single moment, that leads the Doctor to greatly benefit and resemble the Master's biggest fear.

[Blueshift]

Yeah, I'm always amazed people fail to grasp that. Especially from a fanbase that will defend similar but even more wonky examples in other stories.

It's really poorly explained though, just a rushed line, from what I can remember. Good concept, not good execution, which is a shame.

[Rust]

Oh I understand the concept just fine. I still find it moronically stupid.

[UnicronusPrime]

[Rust]

[Mouse_Pad]

Love and Monsters was great, hush you!

Last of the Time Lords left me cold when I first saw it, mostly because of the bizarre decision to take Tennant out of the mix for most of the ep, when it was his interaction with Simm which made the previous ep so great.

The day is saved because the Master has used the Archangel network to low-level hypnotise the planet, so getting everyone to believe in the Doctor at the same time throws the system into reverse and lets the Doctor defeat the Master using his own methods. Unfortunately that part is mentioned so briefly it is easy to miss first time, so it looks like the Doctor is just using magic.

So how did the Doctor go from a shrunken ancient tiny dude in a bird cage back to full-sized, normal-aged dude? I recall there being some explanation, but I don't recall it making any sense.

[Stilton Disco]

Love and Monsters was great, hush you!

Last of the Time Lords left me cold when I first saw it, mostly because of the bizarre decision to take Tennant out of the mix for most of the ep, when it was his interaction with Simm which made the previous ep so great.

The day is saved because the Master has used the Archangel network to low-level hypnotise the planet, so getting everyone to believe in the Doctor at the same time throws the system into reverse and lets the Doctor defeat the Master using his own methods. Unfortunately that part is mentioned so briefly it is easy to miss first time, so it looks like the Doctor is just using magic.

So how did the Doctor go from a shrunken ancient tiny dude in a bird cage back to full-sized, normal-aged dude? I recall there being some explanation, but I don't recall it making any sense.

Well, the Master had been using psychic hypnotism with the Archangel mobile phone satellite network to make the entire human race trust him, which somehow used the four drum beats of the Timelords he was hearing in his head, Martha was then sent by the Doctor around the world to get everyone to say and think the same thing at the same time one year to the day after the Master took over the Earth. Using the Archangel network in the opposite manner to how it was designed to work somehow, the Doctor was able to utilise this psychic energy and convert it, presumably to laser screw driver or Lazarus chamber form, using the same energy manipulation powers he'd used to remove the time vortex from Bad Wolf Rose, put the radiation in his shoe when he met Martha, and alter a lightning strike to convert the Human Daleks to Human Timelord Daleks. This somehow enabled him to not only reverse the being turned into a tiny goblin man thing, but also give him the powers of invulnerability, flight and bioluminescence.

That's the explanation, and no it doesn't make any sense.

Edited by Total Biscuit, 21 November 2011 - 03:25 AM.

[Kalidor]

Oh it makes perfect sense -- RTD is a jivey story teller.

[HellCat]

Stuff HC thinks is good writing = Most everyone else finds terrible.

Stuff HC thinks is bad writing = Most everyone else loves.


Archangel powered Doctor is still a better conclusion then 'Time Vortex powered Rose'. At least it was actually seeded in the previous episode.

[Stilton Disco]

Stuff HC thinks is good writing = Most everyone else finds terrible.

Stuff HC thinks is bad writing = Most everyone else loves.


Archangel powered Doctor is still a better conclusion then 'Time Vortex powered Rose'. At least it was actually seeded in the previous episode.

Eh, I don't mind Bad Wolf Rose, which was slightly foreshadowed with Boom Town showing the Tardis being able to intervene when she considered is necessary. However that's more due to it seeming to be just Rose being possessed by the Tardis, and Bad Wolf Rose being almost an early appearance of Sexy, hence normal rose not remembering it after.

Of course it's then retconned to Rose remembering it all, which I don't like, but that's true of pretty much everything involving rose.

[Scottimus Prime]

DWM has confirmed that Matt will be staying at least through the Christmas 2012 and 50th Anniversary specials...

[HellCat]

Stuff HC thinks is good writing = Most everyone else finds terrible.

Stuff HC thinks is bad writing = Most everyone else loves.


Archangel powered Doctor is still a better conclusion then 'Time Vortex powered Rose'. At least it was actually seeded in the previous episode.

Eh, I don't mind Bad Wolf Rose, which was slightly foreshadowed with Boom Town showing the Tardis being able to intervene when she considered is necessary. However that's more due to it seeming to be just Rose being possessed by the Tardis, and Bad Wolf Rose being almost an early appearance of Sexy, hence normal rose not remembering it after.

Of course it's then retconned to Rose remembering it all, which I don't like, but that's true of pretty much everything involving rose.

I know everyone always points out Boom Town, but I still personally find it doesn't satisfy me. RTD builts up this massive threat, the Daleks bearing down on future Earth with the Doctor stuck without any options. This is then resolved by making Rose omnipotent and having her turn the Dalek's into dust. It just feels like a cop out given how strong the story had generally been before that point.

[Shadewing]

Stuff HC thinks is good writing = Most everyone else finds terrible.

Stuff HC thinks is bad writing = Most everyone else loves.


Archangel powered Doctor is still a better conclusion then 'Time Vortex powered Rose'. At least it was actually seeded in the previous episode.

Eh, I don't mind Bad Wolf Rose, which was slightly foreshadowed with Boom Town showing the Tardis being able to intervene when she considered is necessary. However that's more due to it seeming to be just Rose being possessed by the Tardis, and Bad Wolf Rose being almost an early appearance of Sexy, hence normal rose not remembering it after.

Of course it's then retconned to Rose remembering it all, which I don't like, but that's true of pretty much everything involving rose.

I know everyone always points out Boom Town, but I still personally find it doesn't satisfy me. RTD builts up this massive threat, the Daleks bearing down on future Earth with the Doctor stuck without any options. This is then resolved by making Rose omnipotent and having her turn the Dalek's into dust. It just feels like a cop out given how strong the story had generally been before that point.

Cop-outs are RTD's trademark.