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@  Sabrblade : (23 October 2018 - 11:27 AM)

One could argue that Optimus Prime has, in recent years, been performed less like a person and more like a computer. :p

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 11:23 AM)

The beautiful thing about the franchise is that it's big enough to endure. You can walk away for a while and come back later to see if you like whats new.

@  EShadowP : (23 October 2018 - 11:06 AM)

But that's one of my many reasons to be tremendously bored with the state of TF fiction. (Others include: hey, let's have the Transformers actually transform sometimes.)

@  EShadowP : (23 October 2018 - 11:04 AM)

I'm saying, there are levels. The closest anyone comes is (occasionally) allowing Shockwave to be an actual robot. I would love to see a story where the only reason they've been fighting this long is because they are computers. Once a level of humanity is introduced, they actually stop fighting (only to have the inevitability of back-sliding into fighting again because of that same humanity.)

@  EShadowP : (23 October 2018 - 11:00 AM)

I entirely understand the necessity of some level of anthropomorphism. However, essentially turning them all into really tall metallic humans is not only entirely without purpose, it's boring as heck.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 10:54 AM)

But machine life has to be anthropomorphized, otherwise we don't see the life, just the machine.

@  EShadowP : (23 October 2018 - 10:04 AM)

Maybe we just need writers with better imaginations. Perhaps over-humanizing the Transformers is the longest running problem with every TF fiction ever. Just perhaps.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 09:33 AM)

Yeah, but they are machines. Couldn't they just adjust their own memories for the lifespan? Do we even know how they store memories in the first place?

@  Otaku : (23 October 2018 - 09:12 AM)

Now, I'm not saying that Cybertronians ought to have human life-spans, just that "millions of years" is too long.  Though I suppose it makes the "Oh, I suddenly remembered [plot point]!" moments credible because where do you store all the memories in an easily accessed form?  If you do remember even most things clearly... might that not be maddening?

@  Otaku : (23 October 2018 - 09:09 AM)

The "millions of years old" thing is probably the most alien aspect of Cybertronians.  It pushes my suspension of disbelief for anything remotely human to live that long and still be sane, or maybe even functional.  I think of how aging has affected my own view and sure, some of it is biological maturation, but a lot of it is experience.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 07:11 AM)

But they don't really have a childhood either. They go online and all maturation is literally job experience.

@  Shrug : (23 October 2018 - 06:47 AM)

Well, they're practically immortal. That kind of lifespan doesn't exactly push growing up.

@  TheMightyMol... : (23 October 2018 - 04:00 AM)

They can't handle physical scale, did you think temporal scale would fare any better?

@  Pennpenn : (23 October 2018 - 03:44 AM)

Maybe it's that they're functionally intelligent, but don't ever really mature much psychologically. That and presumably the original writers gave as much of a shit about deep time as they did about space geometry.

@  Whirl Maximus : (23 October 2018 - 02:03 AM)

I'm mixed about the millions of years thing, it's somewhat at odds when transformers are humanized as they often are.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 October 2018 - 11:59 PM)

Are any of the Transformers terribly bright, really? This is a spacefaring civilization that's millions of years old that seem to be fighting a perpetual war for no particular reason. Transformers are stupider than humans

@  wonko the sane? : (22 October 2018 - 08:31 PM)

Depends on the machine. Are you recruiting them, or MAKING them?

@  Cybersnark : (22 October 2018 - 08:30 PM)

... And not terribly bright.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 October 2018 - 07:51 PM)

Makes sense for robot soldiers: you would want something fast, low profile, but lots of power.

@  Waspinator : (22 October 2018 - 06:31 PM)

If we go by the Prime cartoon, sports cars apparently ARE the expendable troop of choice.

@  TheMightyMol... : (22 October 2018 - 04:29 PM)

Just fold 'em into a box and slap some wheels on it, they'll figure it out.

@  Pennpenn : (22 October 2018 - 01:57 AM)

Given that by the time we're up to in the story Functionalism had been dead for millions of years and many of the people around were made during and for the war, it's probably more likely that "sports car shaped thing" was an easy to make alt mode for expendable troops.

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 09:52 PM)

maybe there's underground demolition derbies too

@  Locoman : (21 October 2018 - 09:25 PM)

Every single sports car was one of those two jobs? Considering how many there seem to be....

@  RichardT1977 : (21 October 2018 - 07:34 PM)

Athletic Entertainment

@  TheMightyMol... : (21 October 2018 - 03:32 PM)

It's mentioned in one issue that Bumblebee was a courier. The only other fast cars I can remember seeing in Functionist times were Blur and a couple of Stunticons, as racers.

@  SG Roadbuster : (21 October 2018 - 12:14 PM)

i figured the sports cars were either racers or couriers.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 12:13 PM)

Upper Class. They're clearly not made for manual labor.

@  Locoman : (21 October 2018 - 12:09 PM)

Functionism only really makes sense for certain alternate modes like mining or construction equipment; where do things like sports cars fit in?

@  Xellos : (21 October 2018 - 11:51 AM)

At least in the movies they can switch to a (similar) alt mode at will, it seems. Especially if they want to sell more toys per movie.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 October 2018 - 10:44 AM)

They are a race of adaptive machines. Maybe they were expected to change themselves to fit the role?

@  RichardT1977 : (21 October 2018 - 10:06 AM)

IDW-verse discrimination still made more sense than the backstory in TF: Exodus, where everyone's caste was assigned seemingly at random with no regard for their aptitudes (altmode or otherwise)

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 07:55 AM)

Lost Light is good too, so far.

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 07:54 AM)

I'm not terribly into Transformers in general, but I did mostly enjoy the More Than Meets The Eye series.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 05:11 AM)

Which has been in the state constitution since 1946, but was never actually executed according to documents, and is currently not in effect because the German federal constitution, which takes priority over state constitution, has banned the death penalty back in 1949.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 05:09 AM)

Huh. So next weekend, when the German state of Hesse will have its state election, there will also be a ballot about changing the state constitution... and one of the proposed changes will be abolishing the death penalty.

@  Waspinator : (21 October 2018 - 03:44 AM)

I really need to read those comics

@  Pennpenn : (21 October 2018 - 03:28 AM)

Up to and including the fact that certain alternate modes could end up being classified as "surplus to requirements" and systematically murdered.

@  Pennpenn : (21 October 2018 - 03:26 AM)

And in IDW comics where it is/was literally a form of apartheid where your alternate mode pretty much dictated how you were treated by society, what jobs you could pursue, pretty much everything.

@  Waspinator : (21 October 2018 - 02:24 AM)

We do get hints of that from time to time in Transformers, with stuff like some jets acting smug towards cars and whatnot.

@  RichardT1977 : (20 October 2018 - 08:10 PM)

"No shotgun of Mine is going to marry a rocket launcher" sounds like something that Targetmasters (or WFC Siege Micromasters) might say...

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 08:06 PM)

The characters are actually kinda nice. Sure a bunch of them are from New Jersey, but you get a few aliens too.. But if you do that, you might want to go digital delux verisons.

@  Xellos : (20 October 2018 - 06:38 PM)

My only issue is that the aside from Fox, the looks of the characters are kinda bland. If anything, I'll at least get it on Black Friday, as they almost always have deals on the toys to life stuff.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 06:07 PM)

Well I can tell you, if you are going physical version because you want the toys. The Switch version has the best Ship mount as you just slide the joycons into it. The PS4 ship mount is wired. The game itself is very good in my opionion. In some ways it starts to turn into an RTS without being an RTS. You've got to start focus on keeping your planets from being taken back over. It has a LOT to do. It does have some repitive missions, because well, trying to let you level up all pilots and ships and such. The switch version -ALSO- has starfox only missions and the characters are incorporated into the story.

@  Xellos : (20 October 2018 - 06:03 PM)

How is Starlink anyways? Been thinking of getting the Switch version for StarFox, which is quite unusal for me, as I almost always pick the PS4 versions (favorite controller and I already have so many Trophys on it).

@  Waspinator : (20 October 2018 - 05:42 PM)

No shotgun of mine is going to marry a rocket launcher!

@  TheMightyMol... : (20 October 2018 - 05:22 PM)

Should they be allowed to marry outside of their own caliber?

@  Waspinator : (20 October 2018 - 05:18 PM)

I'm conflicted on the subject of marriage rights for shotguns.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 03:24 PM)

You say, "Damn it, what do you think this is, a shotgun wedding?"

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 03:23 PM)

What do you do if someone wants to bring their concealed-carry to your American wedding?


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291 replies to this topic

#281 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 09:20 AM

Again some people seem to be missing the point of this thread. It's not to make excuses. It's not to make individual articles for every Transformer on WIkipedia. It's to provide a wikipedia page for Fun Publications. If anyone has any sources that might help please post them. If you are going to complain about wikipedia policy or promote a fanwalky... I mean fanwiki, try another thread.

Edited by mignash, 17 January 2011 - 09:29 AM.


#282 Jeysie

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE(Nevermore @ Jan 17 2011, 06:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course, the flaw with that is what is referred to as "favor journalism" or "courtesy journalism" in German (is there an established English term?), which is becoming more and more widespread these days: As far as Wikipedia is concerned, General Motors stating "facts" about their latest car on their own website is not notable. But when General Motors has Car Magazine reiterate their "facts" in a press release barely disguised as "journalistic" coverage, it suddenly becomes notable.

What's hilarious is that this has even resulted in Wikipedia essentially money laundering unsourced facts in its articles into being "acceptably sourced": http://tech.slashdot...9/02/10/2211220

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 17 2011, 09:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again some people seem to be missing the point of this thread. It's not to make excuses. It's not to make individual articles for every Transformer on WIkipedia. It's to provide a wikipedia page for Fun Publications. If anyone has any sources that might help please post them. If you are going to complain about wikipedia policy or promote a fanwalky... I mean fanwiki, try another thread.

I hate to say it, but I agree with Walky... no matter how reasonable and useful a source is by rational standards, some argument will come up on how it doesn't fit Wikipedia's irrational standards. Case in point, Item42's lame excuses about how your source isn't good enough despite the fact that it does exactly what he wanted. (What the hug does a summary of the plot have to do with proving Shattered Glass exists, it's noticed outside of the fandom, and it's part of Timelines? And of course it uses the BotCon logo multiple times; when you talk about a specific event or company it's NORMAL to use their logo for brand recognition. Dur.)

Like both I and Rosicrucian have noted, there will never be a source that is iron-clad un-shoot-downable because the standard structure of print coverage of things like Transformers doesn't work the way Wikipedia expects its sources to, and they won't acknowledge that their one-size-fits-all approach is ignorant and counterproductive.

#283 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:05 PM

Yes, but how does restating the fact that Wikipedia is very arbatrary and badly run help write an article for Fun Publications. If you have some sources to add, please add them so we can reinforce the article from petty deletions. Don't tell me it can't be done, tell me how you can help get it done!

Edited by mignash, 17 January 2011 - 01:09 PM.


#284 Jeysie

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:15 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 17 2011, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't tell me it can't be done, tell me how you can help get it done!

How do you expect any of us to help you do something that can't be done? I'm not wasting my time finding a source just so Item42 and Xaaron can give me some brain-dead, illogical reason why it's not good enough, which will be all the more annoying because they're probably right that it won't be.

Making fun of their ridiculous illogic is at least cathartic on some level.

I'm honestly not sure why you waste your time, since you'll never get anywhere.

Edited by Jeysie, 17 January 2011 - 01:16 PM.


#285 Walky

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:17 PM

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We should disengage and be more productive in other areas of our lives.

#286 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:19 PM

Pete all but actually asks for help on the Fun Pub Wikipedia article (probably since he can't be seen as orchastrating his own article), and all you people do is dismiss him and quit. That's sad.

Edited by mignash, 17 January 2011 - 01:20 PM.


#287 Jeysie

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 17 2011, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pete all but actually asks for help on the Fun Pub Wikipedia article (probably since he can't be seen as orchastrating his own article), and all you people do is dismiss him and quit. That's sad.

What's sad is that you can't accept this is a hopeless cause.

I'm always more than willing to help Pete where I can, but this is one case where nothing can be done. I honestly don't get what help you expect us to provide when Item42 and Xaaron have made it crystal clear that every bit of possible help we could think of will be deemed not acceptable. Wave a magic wand and change reality, perhaps?

#288 Bass X0

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 17 2011, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pete all but actually asks for help on the Fun Pub Wikipedia article (probably since he can't be seen as orchastrating his own article), and all you people do is dismiss him and quit. That's sad.


You can't fight city hall.

Or wikipedia.

Just because you can't win doesn't mean you stop working.


#289 Walky

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 17 2011, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pete all but actually asks for help on the Fun Pub Wikipedia article (probably since he can't be seen as orchastrating his own article), and all you people do is dismiss him and quit. That's sad.


Pete also asked that you not support knockoffs of BotCon product, but you kind of threw that back in his face, didn't you?

#290 Nevermore

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE(Jeysie @ Jan 17 2011, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Nevermore @ Jan 17 2011, 06:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course, the flaw with that is what is referred to as "favor journalism" or "courtesy journalism" in German (is there an established English term?), which is becoming more and more widespread these days: As far as Wikipedia is concerned, General Motors stating "facts" about their latest car on their own website is not notable. But when General Motors has Car Magazine reiterate their "facts" in a press release barely disguised as "journalistic" coverage, it suddenly becomes notable.

What's hilarious is that this has even resulted in Wikipedia essentially money laundering unsourced facts in its articles into being "acceptably sourced": http://tech.slashdot...9/02/10/2211220


Yup, that story caused some brief anti-Wikipedia bru-hah over here back when it happened.
"'[Foreigners] at least need to be able to speak proper German.' Okay, what the hell is that supposed to be? Proper German'? Where do they speak that? Have you ever been there? Are you German? Can you engage in a conversation in a Swabian pub? Most people from Cologne already fail at asking for directions in the Eifel region."
- Volker Pispers, German comedian

#291 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:16 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 17 2011, 06:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again some people seem to be missing the point of this thread. It's not to make excuses. It's not to make individual articles for every Transformer on WIkipedia. It's to provide a wikipedia page for Fun Publications. If anyone has any sources that might help please post them. If you are going to complain about wikipedia policy or promote a fanwalky... I mean fanwiki, try another thread.

If people think that a Fun Publications page on Wikipedia isn't appropriate, it is wholly on-topic for them to come on and say why it isn't. If they think it is appropriate, it is wholly on-topic for them to come on and discuss the relevant Wikipedia policies that either help or hinder that goal.

#292 CORVUS

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:47 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 17 2011, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pete all but actually asks for help on the Fun Pub Wikipedia article (probably since he can't be seen as orchastrating his own article), and all you people do is dismiss him and quit. That's sad.

What's sad is that you can't let it go and accept that regardless of how much you want this, its not going to happen under the current wikipedia policies, no matter how you frame your arguments. What's sad is that you can't seem to accept that a handful of us aren't going to change wikipedia policies, because we aren't responsible for such things. What's sad is that you are trying to guilt-trip others into helping you beat your head against the wikipedia wall out of pointless stubborn pride.

So don't you dare stoop to trying these tactics with your fellow posters in an attempt to get your way. People have better things to do than waste their time on your behalf, and these attempts speak ill of you, whether or not you care.

You see how they try to justify things in this very thread: half-baked excuses, movement of the goal-posts, logical fallacies, and a dogged refusal to accept valid arguments and criticisms about how wikipedia handles pop-culture articles. Basically, no reasoning is good enough for them, because they'll just continue to do what they want and if we don't like it, that's tough. Why you persist in this is beyond me.

"Don’t you see? Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it." - The Eleventh Doctor