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@  wonko the sane? : (13 November 2019 - 07:01 PM)

Does germany make it quick and easy to see a doctor too? Cause an emergency doctor visit can take two weeks out here, and an emergency ROOM visit can take 18-24 hours.

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:43 PM)

(Good thing is, under German law, if you call in sick during your vacation and see a doctor immediately, you get to keep your vacation days.)

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:42 PM)

Too bad. My plans wee to do two more overtime hours before having my last day of vacation for the year on Friday. Oh well.

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:41 PM)

So I'm currently on medical leave for a particularly stupid reason: Burned my back with a hot-water bag while sleeping last night. Though the doctor said I'm hardly the first person to have this happen to them.

@  Patch : (13 November 2019 - 06:11 PM)

Just a particularly odious example of the 90s era of depicting transgender women as either the subject of crude humor, or "Jerry Springer" material.

@  Ashley : (13 November 2019 - 04:55 PM)

I think Ace Ventura legit contributed to me spending years in self denial. I will never be ok with Jim Carrey.

@  Benbot : (13 November 2019 - 01:22 PM)

I thought he since changed his tune.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (13 November 2019 - 12:51 PM)

Jim Carry Paladin?

@  Maximus Ambus : (13 November 2019 - 12:22 PM)

Don't doubt what he can do. Sonic the Hedgehog!

@  Paladin : (13 November 2019 - 11:51 AM)

not giving a dime to a transphobic antivaxxer.

@  wonko the sane? : (13 November 2019 - 11:25 AM)

It'll be a terrible movie if jim carrey phones it in. Otherwise it should be decent.

@  Paladin : (13 November 2019 - 10:45 AM)

sonics' still gonna be a terrible movie but at least they whined loud enough to make him look passable for a 2-minute trailer. "yay."

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:37 AM)

But of course to annoying people there's no such thing as different decisions made for different reasons, there is only "I like it so it's right" and "I don't like it so it's wrong."

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:35 AM)

Even if we pretend it's objective truth that they were both bad, then they were bad in very different ways.

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:33 AM)

Sonic's previous movie design looked genuinely bad. The Transformers '07 designs just looked insufficiently like what certain loud and obnoxious parts of the fandom think Transformers are required to always look like.

@  Otaku : (13 November 2019 - 08:50 AM)

Um... Purple Monkey Dishwasher?

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 November 2019 - 08:25 AM)

Do we really need to have Every Movie Transformer Thread Ever in the Squawkbox?

@  Bass X0 : (13 November 2019 - 08:13 AM)

Sure it made money but that doesn’t mean it has appealing character designs. Lot of god awful fugly faces in the Transformers movies.

@  Otaku : (12 November 2019 - 08:25 PM)

@Liege My issue with Transformers (2007) were elements I thought were unnecessary.  I know it was supposed to just be a joke, but I didn't ever need to hear about "Sam's Happy Time". >.> Which, being in awe of the first "live action" TF-film, didn't even register until I'd already purchased and watched it on DVD a few times (after seeing it in theaters 3 times).

@  Liege : (12 November 2019 - 08:22 PM)

For all the Bayisms in the 07 movie, it was tempered by Spielberg as producer. Designs aside it was an enjoyable popcorn blockbuster about a boy and his first car who happens to be an alien from another planet. They sequels are just Bay going unchecked after he proved how much bank he could bring in.

@  TM2-Megatron : (12 November 2019 - 07:12 PM)

I didn't find the designs in the '07 movie to be that bad, personally. What got really offputting was how Cybertronians in general become such huge a-holes in the later films; the designs were very much secondary to their horrible personalities

@  Sabrblade : (12 November 2019 - 06:59 PM)

And yet, Transformers still broke the bank at the box office, opened up the brand to a whole new generation of fans, shot the brand up to mainstream appeal, and enabled all kinds of new collector-oriented lines and other avenues to come about. Not saying Sonic's movie will do the same for his series, but the 2007 TF movie certainly did more good than harm.

@  Bass X0 : (12 November 2019 - 06:09 PM)

Paramount changed Sonic due to fan backlash but refused to redo Transformers 2007 with new cgi appearances based on their classic forms everyone’s knows and loves, and can relate to. Trailer 1 Sonic is as appealing a design as 2007 Bumblebee...

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 November 2019 - 02:14 PM)

I don't. They're a pain in the ass to repair.

@  Benbot : (12 November 2019 - 12:48 PM)

I wish car companies would bring back flip up headlights

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 November 2019 - 09:07 AM)

Wear a hazmat suit. It's Walmart, they're used to weird.

@  wonko the sane? : (12 November 2019 - 07:54 AM)

2 inches of snow on the side of the house, 2 feet of snow on the deck. I hate this winter already.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (11 November 2019 - 11:33 PM)

But that requires actually going IN walmart. ;P

@  Liege : (11 November 2019 - 11:22 PM)

Pro tip for anyone hunting the for the Walmart 35th exclusives: try the seasonal aisles rather than the toy section. I found the display with all the exclusives and a bunch of the reflector wave practically untouched amongst those novelty arcade machines and a bunch of frozen merch.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (11 November 2019 - 09:45 PM)

Although that does spark an idea for me. In a new continuity, Censere the Necrobot could be the herald Cityspeaker for Quintessa the Necrotitan just to play on their monikers utilizing Greek for dead, nekrós.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (11 November 2019 - 09:26 PM)

I hate to burst your bubble, Maximus Ambus, but 90% of things said in IDW turned out to be amnesiac half-rememberings courtesy of Adaptus or outright lies courtesy of Shockwave.

@  Jenny : (11 November 2019 - 08:54 AM)

The toy's designed to look like Wipe-Out, anyway.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 November 2019 - 08:14 AM)

Didn't they try to retcon that into a figure of speech because that connection went against everybody else's long-term plans?

@  Maximus Ambus : (11 November 2019 - 03:53 AM)

There's still some connection given Trypticon was created by Mortilus.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 November 2019 - 12:12 AM)

Yeah that toy doesn't exactly look like Necrobot.

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 08:24 PM)

But.... it's just "Necro" not "Necrobot".

@  TheMightyMol... : (10 November 2019 - 05:10 PM)

But why does the God of Death need a giant space kaiju? Wait, never mind, answered my own question.

@  Maximus Ambus : (10 November 2019 - 02:15 PM)

Yowza I just realised Titans Trypticon comes with Necro AKA Censere AKA Mortilus.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:15 PM)

I... think the best equivalent would actually be the British "There is room for improvement".

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:15 PM)

There's always a sense of irony to it, but what the ratio between irony (you really failed) and straightworwardness (at least you achieved something) is depends on the situation and the speaker.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:12 PM)

The meaning can be both literal (you succeed on one level but fail on another), or it can be utterly ironic (you fail in every regard but the most technical; or even worse, "you really gave your best"), and anything in between.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:10 PM)

For example: A singer can hit the notes really well, but clearly isn't a native speaker and what little of the lyrics you can make out sounds nothing like what it's supposed to be.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 01:06 PM)

The premise seems to be the mixing of technical and aesthetic technical qualities towards the overall success.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 01:05 PM)

But both "hollow victory" and pyrrhic victory" are referring to having lost as much as you've gained. IE; a battle was won but both armies were destroyed. The town being seiged is victorious, but all the soldiers are still dead. Nevermore's concept is more "You did it, but it's so ugly we don't know if you actually succeeded".

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:35 AM)

Alternately, one could probably also call it a "hollow victory".

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:35 AM)

Example: In the Powerpuff Girls episode "Uh Oh Dynamo", the monster-of-the-day was a really tough, giant-size one that required the use of a really destructive mech to defeat it. While the monster was ultimately beaten, the city of Townsville was utterly trashed by the mech's weapons in the process. So, while the city was saved from the monster, it was harmed even worse by the mech that saved it, making the victory bittersweet.

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:32 AM)

@Nevermore, sounds to me like what one might call a "bittersweet victory". The goal was met, but at great cost or by disastrous result that call into question if the achieved goal could even be called a success.

@  Arvegtor : (10 November 2019 - 09:40 AM)

Seems to be close enough to "Pyrrhic victory"

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 November 2019 - 09:37 AM)

What do you get from putting the German term through a translator?

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 08:57 AM)

That is a ridiculously interesting concept. But I don't think english has a singular term for what you're describing.


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291 replies to this topic

#1 Petes Robot Con

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 12:11 PM

So, I use the TFwiki for just about all my research, but I needed to check the main Wikipedia site for their description on Shattered Glass and much to my surprise the Timelines page was deleted. I tried to muddle through the discussion, but if anyone can help get this back up it would be greatly appreciated.

From what I read, the person responsible for the deletion seems to know very little about business and seems to think Timelines only appeals to TF fans (though I am not sure how that is relevant?) but we in fact actively market to all pop culture fans through our releases to Asylum, BSC and so on. Our product has been featured in Tomarts We have an annual comic on the newsstands and appear on ICv2's Top 300 comics page. Furthermore, Shattered Glass as you know has become a pop culture staple...

Anyways, again, not sure why they would delete a licensed and Hasbro recognized property.

EDIT:

With Link
http://en.wikipedia....mers:_Timelines

Edited by [email protected], 06 January 2011 - 12:20 PM.


#2 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE([email protected] @ Jan 6 2011, 09:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, I use the TFwiki for just about all my research, but I needed to check the main Wikipedia site for their description on Shattered Glass and much to my surprise the Timelines page was deleted. I tried to muddle through the discussion, but if anyone can help get this back up it would be greatly appreciated.

From what I read, the person responsible for the deletion seems to know very little about business and seems to think Timelines only appeals to TF fans (though I am not sure how that is relevant?) but we in fact actively market to all pop culture fans through our releases to Asylum, BSC and so on. Our product has been featured in Tomarts We have an annual comic on the newsstands and appear on ICv2's Top 300 comics page. Furthermore, Shattered Glass as you know has become a pop culture staple...

Anyways, again, not sure why they would delete a licensed and Hasbro recognized property.

The Wikipedia powers-that-be are sometimes militant in their defense of the need to demonstrate "notability." If one can't provide evidence defending how "notable" something is, they try to delete it.

Sometimes, it seems to me that no amount of evidence would be enough. THEY don't think it's important, so they delete it.

Good luck.

Edited by G.B.Blackrock, 06 January 2011 - 12:19 PM.


#3 Nutjob R/T

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 05:49 PM

Wikipedia is a cesspool with a shiny cover.

Why bother?
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#4 Creedence

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 06:07 PM

Articles on Wikipedia need to have reliable secondary sources* to pass muster. Simply being "a licensed and Hasbro recognized property" is not sufficient.

*If you're interested in restoring the article, you're going to spend a lot of time arguing over what consists a "reliable secondary source".

#5 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 06:13 PM

Pete, I attempted to gather sources, it but was shot down. Good news though it it's not really gone forever, I'm making a much smaller version of the article and putting it on thise wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia....sformers_comics

Some of the "reliable third party" sources I had gathered on the page before it's deletion included:

-Brereton, Erin (2006). Transformers: The Fantasy, The Fun, The Future. Triumph Books. p. 60. ISBN 1572439831.

- "The Mike The Pod Review: Botcon Exclusive Dreadwind". Mikethepod.com. http://www.mikethepo...BEDreadwind.htm. Retrieved 2010-

-"Transformers Timelines Summer Special - - ComicNewsi.com for Comic Book News, Reviews, Previews, Discussions". Comicnewsi.com. http://comicnewsi.co...=98&itemid=9754. Retrieved 2010-12-12.

-Tomart's Action Figure Digest, No. 164

-"Transformers Timelines Issue 3: Shattered Glass ? Independents ? ComicNewsi.com for Comic Book News, Reviews, Previews, Discussions". Comicnewsi.com. http://comicnewsi.co...12063&catid=186. Retrieved 2010-12-12.

-Remaining Transfixed by Transformers, New York Times, by MICHAEL CIEPLY, Published: May 29, 2009

-"Transformers Collectors' Club releases a photo of Shattered Glass Cyclonus ? TOMOPOP ? COLLECTIBLE TOY CULTURE ? Vinyl toys, Papercraft, Garage kits, Gamer toys, Japanese toys". Tomopop.com. http://tomopop.com/t...nus-11436.phtml. Retrieved 2010-12-12.

-"Transformers Timelines Dion Toy Review". BWTF. 2010-03-16. http://www.bwtf.com/.../timelines/dion. Retrieved 2010-12-12.

-BotCon 2010 Opens Registration, Offers Exclusive 'Generation 2: Redux' Transformers Set, May 20th 2010, by Josh Wigler

-Transformers: Timelines Fall Special Generation 2 Redux, Review by BW Media, Thursday December 2, 2010

-"Transformers Club Magazine ? Comic Preview!". BSCkids. 2010-03-17. http://www.bsckids.c...-comic-preview/. Retrieved 2010-12-12.

-Transformers: Timelines Fall Special Generation 2 Redux, Review by BW Media, Thursday December 2, 2010

I have the full text of the page on my user account for reference.

Mostly it was arguements by Wikipedia member NotARealWord who was responsible for the Timelines page deletion, heading the arguements against anyone who asserted it's notability and examining every source I put forth. He posted about 40 times about how unnotable the page was here http://en.wikipedia....mers:_Timelines and here http://en.wikipedia....2nd_nomination)

So if you can convince him about the page's notability, you might get it back. He is on the Allspark and TFWiki under the name Item42.

Also, the page was frequently sabotaged and harassed by tfwiki and Allspark member Blackout, who runs a series of sock puppet accounts on Wikipedia.

Edited by mignash, 06 January 2011 - 06:29 PM.


#6 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 06:20 PM

BTW - While Timelines may be gone or Greatly reduced, there is no reason we can't collect sources for anentirely new page about Fun Publications, which could include all things Fun Pub does, including the TFclub and Joeclub. Of course we better collect a big list of sources for it or it will be deleted quick.

#7 tec

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 06:56 PM

It sucks when you have someone at FunPub saying hey where our article at and it still being deleted

You would think that FunPub would have control over something like that

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#8 M Sipher

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 06:58 PM

WELCOME TO WIKIPEDIA.


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Holy crap Sipher has a Tumblr apparently!
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#9 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:03 PM

QUOTE(tec @ Jan 6 2011, 06:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It sucks when you have someone at FunPub saying hey where our article at and it still being deleted

You would think that FunPub would have control over something like that


The subject of an article is not allowed to edit an article about them. I did write Pete a few weeks ago on the club board asking for any reliable magazine reviews of them so I could site them.

#10 Petes Robot Con

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:09 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 6 2011, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BTW - While Timelines may be gone or Greatly reduced, there is no reason we can't collect sources for anentirely new page about Fun Publications, which could include all things Fun Pub does, including the TFclub and Joeclub. Of course we better collect a big list of sources for it or it will be deleted quick.


What bothered me was whoever is deleting the page was unaware that the comics were released through Diamond. I mean, is this a Transformers person? We have been releasing through Diamond for 5 years, are always featured on numerous websites, TF and non-TF, announcing the solicitation, numerous sites actually selling the book and are listed on the Top 300 and/or Top 25 small publishers.

A simple search would have yielded all of this info:
http://www.comicsbea...-november-2010/

http://www.tfarchive...s/idw/sales.php

http://comicbooks.ab...d100nov06_3.htm

And of course

http://www.icv2.com/...news/16618.html

Edited by [email protected], 06 January 2011 - 07:14 PM.


#11 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:15 PM

Yes, I did point that out.

QUOTE
?KEEP - It's the official line of Fun Publications, a company who is licensed by Hasbro to make Transformers. The comic books were released in the mainstream through normal comic book distruibutors, so the arguement in the nomination that it had "limited release" only is invalid. Mathewignash (talk) 16:31, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

?comment - Really, are they distributed through general comic book retail? My search on Amazon.com didn't find any f them on retail, only user-generated sales of the comics. NotARealWord (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

?COMMENT - YES, every year they are sold through Diamond Distributors and solicited in Previews. I pick them up at any local comic book shop. http://newsodrome.co...elease-19876687 Mathewignash (talk) 20:02, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


Sadly there is what NotARealWord is running what he called a "Campaign of Deletion" on Transformers article on Wikipedia. Seemingly unless you have a dozen solid citations from major sources, you get chopped. Heck, they killed the articles on the Dinobot Slag, the Ark and Energon in the last few months!

They really pulled out all the stops to get this article deleted to. For instance when I found reliable review of Shattered Glass Cyclonus on a site and tried to use it as a source, they would say the reviewer didn't say the word "Timelines" in his review, he called it "Shattered Glass Cyclonus", so it wasn't a source I could use for the Timelines article. I pointed out it says "Timelines" on the box and still got ignored.

Edited by mignash, 06 January 2011 - 07:33 PM.


#12 Petes Robot Con

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:34 PM

Wait, they deleted Slag? Because of his name I assume?

Back to topic, we market our comics to comic fans. That is a big part of the Diamond release, to reach a broad base of comic and pop culture fans. By appearing on a comic book shelf, we are exposed to ALL comic fans and general fans of pop culture. The comic does not appear exclusively on Transformers only websites. They appear at the newsstand as well...

Edited by [email protected], 06 January 2011 - 07:36 PM.


#13 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:40 PM

No they Deleted Slag because he was "not notable". I actually tried to use the contraversary over his name as proof of him being notable. I was ignored. There was a deletion attempt for Grimlock, but he survived. No one has attempted to delete the other Dinobots YET, but if Slag was not notable, how will Snarl and Sludge survive?

http://en.wikipedia...._(Transformers)

http://en.wikipedia....letion/Grimlock

Another one i tried to save was Blackarachnia. She got killed a while back.

Edited by mignash, 06 January 2011 - 07:48 PM.


#14 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:54 PM

QUOTE(mignash @ Jan 6 2011, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No they Deleted Slag because he was "not notable". I actually tried to use the contraversary over his name as proof of him being notable. I was ignored. There was a deletion attempt for Grimlock, but he survived. No one has attempted to delete the other Dinobots YET, but if Slag was not notable, how will Snarl and Sludge survive?

http://en.wikipedia...._(Transformers)

http://en.wikipedia....letion/Grimlock

Another one i tried to save was Blackarachnia. She got killed a while back.

One thing that needs to be recognized. Wikipedia is a generic encyclopedia. To non-Transformers fans, is a character like Slag notable? I'm not going to say that it's not, but I can easily see why most character-specific entries are being considered "not notable enough" for such a generic site.

#15 tec

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:59 PM

Wait what's the point of Wiki if not a good scorce of information about stuff that's includes all chactors and information protaining to thim if key chactors get deleted then the information is croupted there for no good to anyone

I think if there going to have that then I think you should serch wiki for Transformers and it should link to the TFwiki

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#16 Petes Robot Con

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:00 PM

http://bigsmallcomix...ered-glass.html


#17 Chip

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:08 PM

QUOTE
?comment - Really, are they distributed through general comic book retail? My search on Amazon.com didn't find any f them on retail, only user-generated sales of the comics. NotARealWord (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


That guy's just ignorant of how comics are distributed. Would Previews qualify as an independent source? I can't speak to whether an individual Transformers franchise merits its own page, but there is a lot of information about Timelines that definitely belongs on Wikipedia.

QUOTE([email protected] @ Jan 6 2011, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wait, they deleted Slag? Because of his name I assume?


Eh, he's a minor character from a media franchise. I love him, but it's true. It sucks that the Timelines info is getting caught in the crossfire, but there's a good reason why so many other TF pages are being purged; there are far too many of them for a general knowledge wiki.

#18 Bass X0

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE([email protected] @ Jan 7 2011, 01:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I liked it wordy. That was a plus for me. Better than comic that can be read in 60 seconds.

Edited by Bass X0, 06 January 2011 - 08:11 PM.

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#19 (Deactivated) mignash

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:12 PM

QUOTE([email protected] @ Jan 6 2011, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


To which I would be told that "fan blogs" are not notable sources on wikipedia.

Edited by mignash, 06 January 2011 - 08:13 PM.


#20 StarSaber

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:52 PM

QUOTE(Chip @ Jan 6 2011, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Eh, he's a minor character from a media franchise. I love him, but it's true. It sucks that the Timelines info is getting caught in the crossfire, but there's a good reason why so many other TF pages are being purged; there are far too many of them for a general knowledge wiki.


That's pretty much how I see it so I don't find it unlikely that the general non-TF-loving public might as well.

The Transformers universe is so diverse and so long-lived that it would probably be impossible - or at least impractical - to have an article devoted to every character on Wikipedia let alone every fictional appearance. "Key" characters like Optimus Prime and Megatron could easily be argued to be deserving of their own pages but Wikipedia would probably prefer they be listed on a page about their own respective factions.

There really isn't a reason to have such well-developed articles about individual Transformers on Wikipedia when TFWiki exists. The general public might not know it exists but then they probably don't care enough about the subject to delve any deeper.

The way I see it TFWiki is the Unabridged Oxford-English Dictionary of Transformers whereas Wikipedia is maybe a line or two in a Pocket Webster Dictionary. Some people are going to be content with the quick-and-dirty version while others will not.

There really isn't any comparison and there's probably no point in trying to mirror the information on that level.

-SS (However, a link to TFWiki would be nice even if impractical from a business POV)