Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Squawkbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Please don't post Youtube videos in the chat box. The forums software auto embeds them. 

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 April 2017 - 01:49 PM)

Hey man, don't dongshame.

@  Benbot : (24 April 2017 - 12:32 PM)

#crotchproblems

@  Robowang : (24 April 2017 - 11:53 AM)

Menasor's problem is that his crotch is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high. I couldn't care less about those other issues. If your dong is a chestburster, something ain't right.

@  BlackMax : (24 April 2017 - 11:40 AM)

Seems like all the combiners have an issue like that, the legs can never be completely straight in combined mode, the finished big bot is always looming eerily or hip-thrusting.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 April 2017 - 11:39 AM)

I doubt having an integrated trailer would have swayed me into buying CW Motormaster. But what definitely put me off were Internet reports of awful hip ratcheting.

@  BlackMax : (24 April 2017 - 11:36 AM)

I might also mention that ~not~ being a big truck has worked for the Internet pretty well.

@  unluckiness : (24 April 2017 - 11:32 AM)

I moaned about Motormaster because his combiner mode was awful

@  Rycochet : (24 April 2017 - 11:31 AM)

People moaned about the choices made during Combiner wars.that meant characters like Motormaster/Menasor weren't G1G1G1.

@  BlackMax : (24 April 2017 - 11:23 AM)

He could always be a very small red truck.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 April 2017 - 10:59 AM)

But how will you know it's Optimus Prime if he's not a big red truck?

@  Broadside : (24 April 2017 - 10:20 AM)

Personally, I'm not a fan of the extreme-accuracy trend. The character choices are kind of sure-fine-whatever, but outside of stuff like Alpha Trion that's a huge divergence from the source material, there doesn't feel like there's much imagination in the designs any more.

@  Pennpenn : (24 April 2017 - 05:03 AM)

Because you might as well start as you mean to go on?

@  Nevermore : (24 April 2017 - 04:16 AM)

It does. Preview image is Legion's penis tongue.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (24 April 2017 - 04:15 AM)

Hold it. Please tell me Kiss Players doesn't have a GoBox.

@  Autobot Bubbs : (24 April 2017 - 03:10 AM)

That is epically messed up

@  Autobot Bubbs : (24 April 2017 - 03:10 AM)

GURD.... youtube just auto-played a new trailer for the Alien flick.... featuring John Denver's 'country roads' as BG music....

@  Noideaforaname : (24 April 2017 - 12:37 AM)

The Generations lineup should be decided by hitting Random Page on the wiki. "Next one is... Crankstart." 'Alright, I love the Scavengers!' "No, no, CrankSTART. The repaint of a repaint of a repaint of a Scout version of a Deluxe based on a background vehicle from the Live Action film." 'Oh'

@  RichardT1977 : (23 April 2017 - 11:31 PM)

After we get a couple of Pretenders. And a Titans Return Star Saber (not a difficult retool from Galvatron).

@  BlackMax : (23 April 2017 - 10:21 PM)

I really do like all the attention to the 80s toys, being from that era myself. However, I would be really happy if (let's say post Trypticon) the Generations line turns to the 2001 RiD line, Beast Wars stuff, and moves forwarda bit.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (23 April 2017 - 08:19 PM)

I'm curious because I'm not an 80s kid nor have I ever held an actual 80s toy in my hands, but I'm pretty sure a mathematically significant portion of 80s kids here do have a like for cartoon accuracy.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (23 April 2017 - 08:15 PM)

How much of this community favors versus not favors the current Hasbro design team's general trend of accuracy to classic 1980s toys and lack of attention to any other era of Transformers?

@  Fruitloop Mu... : (23 April 2017 - 07:36 PM)

Telly, ah, got it.

@  Evac : (23 April 2017 - 06:41 PM)

"You can do magic things!" "It's called evil, kid."

@  Foffy : (23 April 2017 - 06:27 PM)

Potatoes don't have ears. That's corn.

@  Telly : (23 April 2017 - 06:27 PM)

little furry potatos

@  Evac : (23 April 2017 - 06:24 PM)

This potato's got big ears...

@  Foffy : (23 April 2017 - 06:18 PM)

The potato rebellion will be swift and brutal.

@  Waspinator : (23 April 2017 - 03:48 PM)

IT'S WATCHING US

@  Telly : (23 April 2017 - 03:34 PM)

yeah, at the time im posting this, theres a "2" next to it and me and fruitloop are shown to be the 2 people reading it

@  Telly : (23 April 2017 - 03:33 PM)

i think it just means that someone is reading the shoutbox

@  Fruitloop Mu... : (23 April 2017 - 03:25 PM)

Re The Rise of Cobra: I like bad movies and action sequences involving elite ninjas, so I watched / fast-forwarded through it on Netflix a couple of years ago.

@  Fruitloop Mu... : (23 April 2017 - 03:23 PM)

Can anyone tell me why the Shoutbox has a notification (a "1") when I login sometimes? I scroll through and don't see anything addressed to me. What does it mean?

@  ▲ndrusi : (23 April 2017 - 01:33 PM)

I miss the 2000s when my local stores got new toys more than once a year.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (23 April 2017 - 01:09 PM)

I mean, it might be hard to not know about something before release at all, but the degree of familiarity that you described is only attainable if you intentionally seek things out.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (23 April 2017 - 12:59 PM)

That's at least partially your own fault. The "in motion" part sounds like you even watched videos, which require conscious effort, unlike pictures that might be hard to even avoid.

@  Bass X0 : (23 April 2017 - 12:22 PM)

I miss the 80s where the first time I ever saw Transformers toys was on the toy shelves and hadn't already saw the toy from every angle and in motion several months beforehand. It made seeing a toy in the store something very special to me that I can't recapture now.

@  Evac : (23 April 2017 - 12:14 PM)

I could see Generations becoming a TRU exclusive line, now that I think about it.

@  Xellos : (23 April 2017 - 12:14 PM)

Also, Generations weathered AOE, and the TLK line seems to be short as well, so I think we'll still be seeing some room for Generations.

@  TheMightyMol... : (23 April 2017 - 12:11 PM)

Titans aren't really wide-released anyway. About the only brick-and-mortar chain to reliably carry them is Toys R Us.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (23 April 2017 - 12:08 PM)

Isn't Trypticon still a long way from now?

@  Evac : (23 April 2017 - 11:57 AM)

They wouldn't let a big-ticket item like that get cancelled.

@  Evac : (23 April 2017 - 11:57 AM)

Counter argument: They still haven't released Trypticon.

@  unluckiness : (23 April 2017 - 09:25 AM)

But yeah, not having any big-name media means it's the most likely, although the premiere series packaging might convince retailers to dedicate more shelf space, kinda like SW Black.

@  unluckiness : (23 April 2017 - 09:24 AM)

I'd expect Generations to be the sacrificial lamb since they can't possibly stock RID any less.

@  RichardT1977 : (23 April 2017 - 09:06 AM)

I'm thinking the subline that doesn't have a movie or TV show will be the one on the cutting board.

@  RichardT1977 : (23 April 2017 - 09:05 AM)

Back to TF toys: the question is whether or not retailers will be willing to commit the peg/shelf space for three sublines. And which one will be sidelined if space is at a premium.

@  unluckiness : (23 April 2017 - 06:28 AM)

No idea.

@  TheMightyMol... : (23 April 2017 - 03:40 AM)

Sometimes the Shoutbox takes a little longer to catch up to a new avatar.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (23 April 2017 - 03:00 AM)

In the Shoutbox I'm seeing the pink thing instead of that guy with the weird eyes.

@  Telly : (23 April 2017 - 02:59 AM)

looks the same to me. maybe it looks different cause its smaller?


Photo
- - - - -

Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition Starter Set Review


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
35 replies to this topic

#1 Kalidor

Kalidor

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Owner
  • 59137 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:10 AM

As resources allow, one thing I'm going to start introducing on the site is a more general side of things. This will include anything from new games (video or otherwise), DVDs or anything we generally talk about here.

To kick it off, here's a review of the newest offering from Wizards of The Coast -- the new Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Roleplaying Game: An Essential D&D Starter (4th Edition D&D) released today (Sept 7th)

http://www.allspark....t/view/7778/18/

#2 Joker

Joker

    Predacon_Cryotek indeed.

  • Supporter
  • 2081 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 06:56 AM

It sounds pretty solid.

Me and my friends have been playing 4th since it came out and our campaign is almost at the point of winding down. I might get this just as a novelty and I may run a one shot adventure with characters made using the method presented in the box.

#3 Vestras

Vestras

    Stone by Day, Friendship by Night

  • Supporter
  • 8459 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:09 AM

Sounds decent enough. How much gameplay would you expect the box to provide? Is it a single encounter/quest beyond the tutorial, or is it enough you could start making your own campaign without having to buy a couple hundred bucks in game books?

I admit, I would like to give 4e a shot, I hear it's pretty streamlines and MMO like in terms of player rolls now which has some appeal to me.
Clearing out some old TFs and Mugenbine in my BST Thread. You know you want some of these.

#4 Kalidor

Kalidor

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Owner
  • 59137 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:40 AM

There's a pretty well fleshed out adventure in the DM book that picks up where the solo adventure leaves off. It's a straight dungeon crawl with about 7 or so encounters, along with tips for creating your own adventures, encounters and a mini-monster manual filled with the stuff you find during your dungeon adventure.

It's enough to get you started. Of course, as with any D&D game it's going to be limited by how much you put into it. I'd say it wouldn't take too terrible long to outgrow what's presented. I think the highest level thing you fight is level 5 or so.

But there is a dungeon, and there is a dragon, so it lives up to its name icon-hotrod.gif

#5 Esser-Z

Esser-Z

    I'm never going down at the hands of the likes of you

  • Citizen
  • 32940 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:24 AM

Essentials is something I still need to look into. I generally play more 3.x (mainly modifications like Pathfinder, now) than 4e, but I do enjoy 4e. From what I've read, I don't like Essentials as a replacement for the other 4e stuff, but it's not supposed to be. Could be an interesting addition to the available options.

#6 ultra magnus13

ultra magnus13

    Razzaroo

  • Citizen
  • 6273 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:28 AM

I hear 4th edition is pretty much pen and paper WOW. Is this true? What about 3rd? I've only ever played AD&D 2nd.
I finally got rid of that big white box.

#7 Esser-Z

Esser-Z

    I'm never going down at the hands of the likes of you

  • Citizen
  • 32940 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:30 AM

Not WoW, no. Not really. However, it does have a very much more gamist outlook on previous editions. For example, all effects from spells and the like are in square areas, for ease of mapping. This results in fireball being a cube.

#8 Kalidor

Kalidor

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Owner
  • 59137 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:04 PM

I just remembered why I feel like I got conned into buying the 4E books. When they came out, in 2007, the promise was that in a month or so after launch we'd have this awesome virtual tabletop to play on. Shortly after that, it was revealed there'd be a monthly fee to use it (wtf) and even 3 years later it still hasn't been developed.

The ONLY reason I bought the 4E core books (along with my friends) was due to the Virtual Gaming table. We feel like we got suckered into spending 90 bucks each and none of us were very happy about it.

We went from waiting until the tools came out to play to saying "Oh, I think I have those 'new' books somewhere, but whatever"

#9 Esser-Z

Esser-Z

    I'm never going down at the hands of the likes of you

  • Citizen
  • 32940 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:11 PM

When you could have downloaded Maptool for FREE!

#10 Kalidor

Kalidor

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Owner
  • 59137 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:22 PM

Not really the point icon-waspy.gif but I will check it out.

#11 ultra magnus13

ultra magnus13

    Razzaroo

  • Citizen
  • 6273 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:09 PM

Yeah I snagged a sweet virtual table top program someone one here posted awhile back, I think it was maptool.
I finally got rid of that big white box.

#12 Kalidor

Kalidor

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Owner
  • 59137 posts

Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:31 PM

Find me one that looks as good as this and I'll be happy.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#13 (Deactivated) BB Shockwave

(Deactivated) BB Shockwave
  • Guests

Posted 09 September 2010 - 06:44 AM

4E is a really streamlined, or - if I want to be (chaotic) evil - dumbed down version of D&D for today's younger generations, who do not want to bother with long and well-thought out adventures, they want fast combat and great rewards.

The new Monster Manuals are a great example of this. Being a biologist, I always loved to read about the monster's ecology, place in the world, behaviour... Instead, we now only have the descriptions of how the creatures attack, and you have short "Monster Lore" blurbs which is what you know of the things if you roll the dice right. Reducing the previously well-developed bestiary into grey-ish cannon fodder to be slaughtered for XP. The encounter groups also feel forced and (sorry) WOW-ish, like descriptions such as "You can encounter Balors together with Efreeti and Salamanders" - WTF, three totally unrelated monsters hanging around? Oh wait, they are all on FIRE. Makes sense now, no? icon-arcee.gif

Throwing out the Alignment system, and the totally free cast-choosing was something that already began during 3E, political correctness in D&D, I thought I'd never see the day, but apparently people wanted to play Elf Barbarians, Halfling Paladins and Half-Orc Wizards. Still the alignments are my main beef - now there are evil paladins too, and alignment is reduced to all creatures being Evil or Unaligned. A pity, because the 3x3 alignment system was one of the best in any RPG.

I wonder what 5E will be like - it's surely around the next corner, after all, ever since Hasbro took over, they are rebooting the franchise every few years just like they are doing with Transformers. You'd have thought Hasbro taking over D&D would have at least resulted in mainstream awesome toys, but nope, Orcus is a pricey exclusive now and Lords of Madness will most likely be the last D&D Mini booster.

Edited by BB Shockwave, 09 September 2010 - 06:46 AM.


#14 1stStageMidboss

1stStageMidboss
  • Citizen
  • 3232 posts

Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:02 AM

Essentials sounds interesting. Not something I want, already having the PHB, DMG, MM and a few other books (plus an Insider subscription, though it's a few months out of date now), but I think it's a great idea and I hope it gets more people into the hobby.

QUOTE(BB Shockwave @ Sep 9 2010, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
4E is a really streamlined, or - if I want to be (chaotic) evil - dumbed down version of D&D for today's younger generations, who do not want to bother with long and well-thought out adventures, they want fast combat and great rewards.

The new Monster Manuals are a great example of this. Being a biologist, I always loved to read about the monster's ecology, place in the world, behaviour... Instead, we now only have the descriptions of how the creatures attack, and you have short "Monster Lore" blurbs which is what you know of the things if you roll the dice right. Reducing the previously well-developed bestiary into grey-ish cannon fodder to be slaughtered for XP. The encounter groups also feel forced and (sorry) WOW-ish, like descriptions such as "You can encounter Balors together with Efreeti and Salamanders" - WTF, three totally unrelated monsters hanging around? Oh wait, they are all on FIRE. Makes sense now, no? icon-arcee.gif

Throwing out the Alignment system, and the totally free cast-choosing was something that already began during 3E, political correctness in D&D, I thought I'd never see the day, but apparently people wanted to play Elf Barbarians, Halfling Paladins and Half-Orc Wizards. Still the alignments are my main beef - now there are evil paladins too, and alignment is reduced to all creatures being Evil or Unaligned. A pity, because the 3x3 alignment system was one of the best in any RPG.


Eh, I always found alignment to be awkward and restrictive. There's no real need in D&D for a system which says if someone is good or bad, it just makes it harder to run intrigue and mystery when the Paladin can just Detect Evil on every villain. "Playing to alignment" is almost never a good thing, as shown by how many people have complained over the years about badly-played Paladins.

Overall, I think 4e's better because it knows it's a game and it focuses on that. It makes sense that the rules are about combat, because there's far more need for rules there. It is a shame having less fluff in the Monster Manuals nowadays, but that's never been a huge problem for me. There's nothing in the game stopping you from having "long and well-thought out adventures", just as the older versions could do "fast combat and great rewards". Hell, fast combat is generally not and advantage of 4e, especially if you're using the earlier monsters (newer ones tend to deal more damage and have less HP to prevent combat getting long and dull).

I don't play 4e at the moment, but that's because it takes too long for my group so we switched to Savage Worlds (which I might stop too because we're off to seperate universities and frankly I'm not a good GM.)

Edited by Amadeus Windfall, 09 September 2010 - 07:04 AM.

Twitter       Tumblr
3DS Friend Code: 3952-7308-5185
Steam: Midboss
PSN: AWindfall

#15 Esser-Z

Esser-Z

    I'm never going down at the hands of the likes of you

  • Citizen
  • 32940 posts

Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:03 AM

Free class choosing is a good thing. Alignment's importance varies by game--mine tend to just use it as a basic indicator. But, 4e's dumbing down was pretty bad, yes.

For Paladins, I definitely prefer the evil ones having a different name, even if they have the same features (With alignment based things mirrored). A paladin is supposed to be a champion of good, somebody you know to be reliable and heroic just based on their job title (Except the ones that are dicks, but that's not how I run them.)

I 100% agree with you on the monster manuals. Even the 3.x ones--my preferred edition, in general, if you include Pathfinder as 3.x--were starting to lose some of the glory of the 2e manuals. I tend to read the 2e Monster Manuals for flavor and plot hook ideas (the 'what part of this creature is valuable' and 'how this creature interacts with civilization' bits are GLORIOUS for that), then use the 3.5 ones for the actual stats--could do the same with 4e, in theory.

And don't forget the absurdity of some of those lore entries. DC15: Cave bears live in caves. DC20: BEARS MAUL YOU WITH THEIR CLAWS.

I resent rituals, as the replacement for non-combat spells, because they simply don't do the job well. There's no more on the fly utility--one of my favorite aspects of 3.x spellcasting.

The combat, though, I do enjoy. It's very much more gamist, such that I almost consider 4e more a Chainmail followup than a D&D edition. It's fun to play, yes. I'm not as fond of DMing it as previous editions, though--I don't like how NPCs and monsters are built completely differently from PCs.

I don't play it as my primary edition of D&D for a few reasons. The lack of utility bothers me. The skill system did make some good decisions--consolidating the stealth and perception skills instead of having several to take--but it dropped some stuff I like to take (like perform and craft), and I prefer skill points to a binary system. It also gives me a harder time than usual with suspension of disbelief. Things like Storm Pillar. This is a wizard spell that creates a, well, storm pillar that damages those near it. Sounds simple, right? Weeeelll... For balance reasons, it's errataed (HOW DO I SPELL THIS) to only hurt things that willingly move up to it. This way, the party can't use forced movement powers to rack up damage; back in my day, this wasn't unbalanced. It was a combo.

Or the spell Grease. Rather than simulate a slippery surface, it's more like Mordenkainen's Mischievous Gravity Vortex. The wizard gets to slide people around in any direction he wants! A viable spell, not so much a viable implementation of Grease. And then there's Firecube and it's ilk...

A bit more positively, the game IS balanced, especially compared to the power level discrepancy nightmare that was 3.x. On the other hand... they go about it the wrong way. Rather than limit spellcasters some and raise up melee, they bring everybody to a level barely above the old Fighter, especially when it comes to ongoing effects (most (de)buffs only last a round or two at most!) and affecting the outside world. (I note that, in practice, I've never really had issues with the 3.x balance, either. In theory it's incredibly broken, but a good group does fine). Balance is a noble goal, but I feel too much was sacrificed for it.

To be ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE for a bit, there're some 4e things I absolutely love (and they go well together!): The implementation of Genasi, who I really need to look at the 3.x stats for sometime, and the Warlord class. The Warlord is an archetype I love: frontline tactician, inspiring and leading his/her team to glory. In 3.x, you could try the Marshall class, but it didn't work very well. A White Raven martial adept (Tome of Battle is a wonderful book) could do it to some extent, but not fully. The best option was really Bard, which doesn't fit the idea quite right. Warlords are awesome. I need to write up a 3.x version.

I also appreciate that it's actually possible to tank and protect the squishes viably in 4e. I like the design of the Fighter's class features quite a bit--I plan to take some inspiration from them, along with the glorious ToB, if I ever get around to writing the 3.x Fighter fix (other than just using Warblade) I keep meaning to do. The power system has its ups and downs, but for Fighters at least it does a very good job of differentiating combat tactics based on weapon choice. They really should get plate, though.

I can talk for a long time about this--if anyone wants to IM me, my AIM's on my profile. D&D is one of my passions, and I like analyzing what I like and dislike. I may sound quite negative about 4e, but that's simply due to it using a different game design philosophy than my primary tastes. I will definitely say it's a good game, and I enjoy it. I will also say that I prefer previous editions of D&D for my D&D playing.


QUOTE
There's no real need in D&D for a system which says if someone is good or bad, it just makes it harder to run intrigue and mystery when the Paladin can just Detect Evil on every villain.

Fortunately, there are ways to mask alignment, which any BBEG worth his or her salt will have access to. icon-hotrod.gif


Also, if anyone wants to try to get an Allspark D&D game (either 3.PF or 4e) going, I'm totally interested. Would even be willing to GM, though might end up going with published adventures if I do--already am running a weekly game, so.

Edited by Esser-Z, 09 September 2010 - 07:04 AM.


#16 Rhinox

Rhinox

    Yeah, I'm kind of pissy.

  • Supporter
  • 13379 posts

Posted 09 September 2010 - 09:23 AM

I run a 4th ed game every week. It does feel similar to an MMO, though ironically, DDO is based on 3.5 rules. I do have some issues where I feel they streamlined too much, but overall, I find it's a very good game, decently balanced, though it does tend to overfavor the players rather than the monsters. I've really had to go way above challenge rating to find monsters that are worth my player's time as they mop the floor with anything their level or lower.

"Why does history repeat itself? Because God doesn't have TiVo."

Wounds of honor are always self inflicted.


#17 Vestras

Vestras

    Stone by Day, Friendship by Night

  • Supporter
  • 8459 posts

Posted 09 September 2010 - 10:46 AM

I haven't been to an actual D&D game since AD&D2nd ed back around...sweet zombie jebus... 97...

I do want to scratch this itch, so what can you tell me about how things have changed since then in simple terms, and other than this starter kit, what's the best way to try getting up to speed for either 4e or 3.X?
Clearing out some old TFs and Mugenbine in my BST Thread. You know you want some of these.

#18 1stStageMidboss

1stStageMidboss
  • Citizen
  • 3232 posts

Posted 09 September 2010 - 11:10 AM

I don't know if there's really a good way to get into 3.X these days... the Pathfinder core book maybe? I think this set is probably the best way to get into modern D&D, especially for its cost.
Twitter       Tumblr
3DS Friend Code: 3952-7308-5185
Steam: Midboss
PSN: AWindfall

#19 RAC

RAC

    10 years reviewing stuff!

  • Citizen
  • 158 posts

Posted 09 September 2010 - 11:29 AM

Really dumb question: is that picture on the review page really what the box looks like? Because I may end up buying this if so, just for nostalgia's sake.

Edited by RAC, 09 September 2010 - 11:31 AM.



@RAC2750 | @FigureReviewers

New Soundwave - The Videogame Podcast

Flailthroughs: We play games in Japanese. We can't read Japanese.

#20 Esser-Z

Esser-Z

    I'm never going down at the hands of the likes of you

  • Citizen
  • 32940 posts

Posted 09 September 2010 - 11:37 AM

QUOTE(Amadeus Windfall @ Sep 9 2010, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know if there's really a good way to get into 3.X these days... the Pathfinder core book maybe? I think this set is probably the best way to get into modern D&D, especially for its cost.

Weelll... You can get in for free. d20srd.org and d20pfsrd.org, for 3.5 and PF respectively, plus a person willing to walk you through stuff to start with will work fine!