> I did love g1 and almost revered it when I was younger I am truly a beast
> wars fan at heart.
Hi Geoff, In this respect you and I are exactly alike. G1 stuff got me interested when I was a little kid, this got me started w/ the whole collection and frankly the nostalgia factor makes G1 a classic. To the extent that I don't really like comparing it to other series. I mean c'mon it was 20+ years ago! But what drove my interest level over the edge, and got me to be the fanatic I am today is Beast Wars.
> I have a modest collection compared to you, mines only
> 150 some ought tfs.
Well, it does help immensely that I have two brothers. It's more considered "our collection" than mine. Although since I'm the oldest, I do probably have the most, but together we can strive for the elusive goal of having them, "all".
> Anyway I'm givin ya my friggin lifes story here. I
> don't get the huge excitement over the new series tf cybertron its exactly
> the same as its previous incarnations (Armada and RID)...bad.
I agree that RID and Armada cartoons are were pretty aweful. That is to say, it's almost completely unwatchable. I tried really hard to get myself to enjoy those shows. I just couldn't. REALLY bad writing, really bad voice over, really bad animation (Armada especially...) I tried very hard to get myself to enjoy it, I just couldn't. The toys, however, I thought were quite good and what saved Armada >>> the COMICS. Today, I look at the comic series storyline as "cannon" and how that fits in w/ the rest of TF uiniverse (that's why I used comics pix almost exclusively for Armada toy's character pages...)
Red alert for example. I must've reread many of those issues 50 times over. Loved the series and made Armada all worthwhile. RID, I pretty much just write off. Great toys, terrible show, no comics, no connection to other TF continuities...
Energon: I think they (Hasbro/Takara) took everything of Armada and improved it a notch. GREAT toys, even better than Armada (and more of them!) Not great shows, but not nearly as bad as Armada. Energon did have a few really good episodes. Did you see the one where Unicron destroys 3 different planets, the autobots try to stop him, but fail miserably?! That show kicked arse! This series voice over didn't seem too good (listening to Kicker *scream* out every line whether he was in the heat of battle or having a casual conversation w/ Ironhide especially grated on my nerves!) better animation (tho still not great) and a story line with potential, carried out better than Armada but not as good as it could've been. Here's the trick to watching Energon. Watch it on DVD, then just fast forward every part that has Kicker w/ extended talking part...

Cybertron, let's talk about that more later...
> I just can't
> watch the dubbed over voices even with David Kaye
> doing Megatron its gawd awful. He was swesome in beast wars gave that
> megatron such presence. And what is really sad is the toys are so great and
> i know the shows going to fail infact I gurantee that cybertron will be gone
> within 2 years if not sooner.
(And you thought you were giving me your life story! I bet you weren't expecting to get this kind of a novel back in response!!!) Okay, here's where I strongly disagree. I think Cybertron shows are overall darn good. And there are parts in the show where his (DKaye) voice is every bit as intimidating as it was in the beast wars era...
My brothers give me a hard time, thinking that I put too much energy trying to connect the different universes of TF. But I see them all as being totally interconnected. G1 happened in 1984-2007 earth time. Beast Wars are characters from the Cybertron the earth year ~2400 that go back in time ~a million B.C. They return to a time beyond from when they came 2400+ and fought Beast Machines storyline. I like to think of Armada, En, cybertron Optimus/Megatron as the same characters (hey it's easy to imagine! they're even voiced by the same people!) only in the pre 2400 era. By 2400 Megatron becomes the true evil genius he is seen in Beast Wars/Machines. Lets pretend Armada is ~2150. In that time frame Armada Meg is pretty much an idiot leader. By 2160 (energon is said to have taken place around 10 years later) he gets a little smarter and better at ruling his troops. By 2170 Cybertron Megs is starting to get things figured out... ah >>>>>character development!<<<<<<<<<<
I'm going to guess that you haven't watched many episodes of TF: Cybertron. I think they're WAY better than Armada, and significantly better than Energon. I still put season 2 as the best TF series of all time but the truth is, I had a romanticized view of Beast Wars. These episodes were *not* perfect either. For one thing, I wish that BW had more episodes. I would've liked to see more characters (Magnaboss, Tripredacus Manterror, TM2 Scourge.....) And lets face it, BW had its share of "groan" moments. Like the Rhinox bean farting episode, all of the Blackarachnia/silverbolt "kissing" wierdness. How would metal robots kiss anyway and what possible purpose would that have?!
I LOVED Beast Wars, don't get me wrong. but I think they had a bit of a tendency to anthropomorphize (hope I spelled that right, what I mean is "human-ize") the robots more than I'd like. That point is, it was a GREAT show that also had a few stinker (punn intended) moments.
>>And that's the way I see Cybertron. I think they drew out the speed planet storyline a bit long, I think the Beast Planet stuff could have been made a little more rich and interesting... BUT, there have been some GREAT moments. The last 5 episodes of "season1" ROCKED!!!! You tell me you've seen Megatron whip out that machine gun and do some serious damage?? It's EASILY as good as any fight scene in Beast Wars. There are moments in Cyb which I consider even better than BW. How about when Megatron first arrives on Velocitron and 'introduces' himself to Override? What did ya think of THAT scene?!? How about when Megs and Starscream first arrive on Jungle planet and "introduce themselves" to Scourge... Seriously, these are episodes I can watch again and again and I don't get tired of. I think they're great and easily stand up to some of the best story telling moments of Beast Wars, G1, Armada, etc...
FURTHERMORE, look at where the series is going! What's the point of all these "silly little planet keys" is it just some lame plot device fabricated to give the characters something to fight over to have them stockpile like energon? NO!!!!!!! These keys are each a fragment of the spark of Primus! What they're fighting over is the ultimate prize! it will allow them to transform the very planet of Cybertron!!!! Into what else?!?! PRIMUS!!! (By the way, the toy absolutely hauls keester! I think it'll go down in history as easily one of the best Transformers of all time....)
It is possible that the second half shows won't live up to my, now fairly high, expectations. But if these second half episodes are as good as the first half ones (and I try not to watch ahead, fan subed Galaxy Force episodes...) then I think that Cybertron has a potential to eclipse or at least match the coolness of Beast Wars. And THAT, is saying a lot given how much I loved that series!
> And its even more frustrating knowing that
> its goning to fail for exactly the same reasons its previous incarnations
> did.
Well, Cybertron will end. But I don't think it's fair to say that this or other series "failed". The plan from the start was that each series last about a year and a half then move into another story arc. Cybertron series will most certainly come to an end, if for no other reason than that they're going to make way for Transformers live action movie which will become the mainstream line. I imagine they'll be putting all their energy into trying to create a new generation of younger fans that love the "G1" style. Earth style vehicle alternate modes...
The fact that the series ends, doesn't mean it's not successful. If lets say, Energon were not successful, the measure of that would be that the next TF line would not have as many of Hasbro's dollar resources into developing it. The fact that Energon had jeeze like what about a hundred + toys... We can say it was "successful" by virtue of the fact that the next series, Cybertron, had an even better cartoon (more money put into it, or at least so it seems) as many or more toys, and continued development of other lines: Alternators, more Legends of Cybertron, more Mini-con vs. packs, now StarWars TFs, Titanium... That to me is the measure that a line is successful. (By that same logic, I'd say it's safe to assume that TF: Universe was not real successful!)
> I dont' know how other members of the tf community don't see it maybe
> I'm alone I hope I'm not. Guess thats pretty much my question, am I alone
> in this opinion?
Well, I certainly cannot speak for every other TF fan out there. But among those I talk to, many/most are enjoying Cybertron as much as I am. Frankly, I hope you're more a minority. Cybertron toys are total sweetness and I wish they'd keep it going another couple years! Here's my recommendation, watch the series, in its entirey and see if you don't have a change of heart...
Thanks for writing, interesting topic!
SO, WHAT DO OTHER FANS THINK??? HOW DO YOU THINK TF:CYBERTRON COMPARES W/ OTHER ERAS OF TF HISTORY?????
