Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Squawkbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Please don't post Youtube videos in the chat box. The forums software auto embeds them. 

@  2017 : (17 October 2017 - 05:56 PM)

It scared me!

@  Kalidor : (17 October 2017 - 05:42 PM)

Yes - here is more information - https://www.battleforthenet.com/

@  Darth Gonzo : (17 October 2017 - 05:36 PM)

Hello?

@  Evac : (17 October 2017 - 04:39 PM)

Yeah, it's the Allspark.

@  wonko the sane? : (17 October 2017 - 04:35 PM)

Okay, so it is the allspark doing it, and not some piece of malware I need to run a system scan over, that's basically all I wanted to know.

@  Evac : (17 October 2017 - 04:34 PM)

If, say, Hillary or Bernie was president, we'd have a chance, but with the current administration... We're pretty much hugged.

@  Evac : (17 October 2017 - 04:32 PM)

I don't know why we're even bothering; there's no way in hell a GOP-controlled congress would listen to common proles like us.

@  Evac : (17 October 2017 - 04:32 PM)

Yeah, so did I.

@  wonko the sane? : (17 October 2017 - 04:19 PM)

Okay, so I just got a pop up telling me I need to call congress about the FCC killing net neutrality. Anyone else get that?

@  Dracula : (17 October 2017 - 09:45 AM)

I'd probably use a primer coat on either of them.

@  unluckiness : (17 October 2017 - 07:21 AM)

Wonder if Overboard or Crashbash would be easier to paint over. Generally dark colors are harder but then again, screaming fuschia seems like it'd be difficult to cover too.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (16 October 2017 - 02:46 PM)

Damn, the shoutbox won't accept those characters. I mean "open-mid back unrounded vowel" on Wikipedia.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (16 October 2017 - 02:46 PM)

Λ

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (16 October 2017 - 02:45 PM)

@Bass X0 Ha, I think some Asian accents of English, that mispronunciation would be considered standard, as those accents lack [ʌ].

@  MEDdMI : (16 October 2017 - 12:08 PM)

She's the last thing you hear before your doom.

@  Noideaforaname : (15 October 2017 - 07:34 PM)

The cat can talk?!

@  MEDdMI : (15 October 2017 - 06:30 PM)

TMM's first cat was Cookie b/c that's the first word he said when he saw her

@  Bass X0 : (15 October 2017 - 05:34 PM)

Reminds me of when my nephew was one year old and my sister got him a puppy. He couldn't say puppy properly and it sounded like poppy, so Poppy is what they called her.

@  Arazyr : (15 October 2017 - 02:36 PM)

Yeah. I thought it had some interesting informational articles too.

@  Bass X0 : (15 October 2017 - 01:59 PM)

does anyone else miss the ToyFare magazine? I just read it for the pictures and jokes rather than using it as a serious guide for buying and selling toys.

@  Arazyr : (15 October 2017 - 09:21 AM)

Uncle Bobby Peach, baby! Uncle Bobby Peach!

@  Arazyr : (15 October 2017 - 09:21 AM)

Last night, playing Mario Kart with my daughter, I misread Baby Peach as "Bobby Peach".

@  Onyxstrike : (15 October 2017 - 09:03 AM)

Yeah, I might've forgotten that the Beast is pretty much just a mindless killing machine. That's pretty much what I get for going off of the TFWiki summaries without having actually read any of it.

@  tffan01 : (15 October 2017 - 08:34 AM)

@Onyxstrike Well, to be fair, the quality of the story aside, Beast Within illustrates the fact that Dinobots are feral in nature, with what would happen if they actually lost control. That's a character flaw in a way, correct? 

@  2017 : (15 October 2017 - 08:21 AM)

Send me a PM if you need help getting to the true ending, also.

@  Strafe : (15 October 2017 - 08:15 AM)

Thinking about quirky robots occupies 30% of my brain's daily processing power. I can't remember birthdays and I never know where my phone is, but it's totally worth it.

@  2017 : (15 October 2017 - 08:03 AM)

Yay, I look forward to your dealings with quirky robots!

@  Strafe : (15 October 2017 - 08:01 AM)

Definitely, I started setting aside funds a month ago for the inevitable Black Friday digital sales in the Playstation and Xbox stores. Going to be ready this year, and that's one of the many games on my list!

@  2017 : (15 October 2017 - 07:30 AM)

Hey Strafe will you ever play Nier: Automata?

@  Onyxstrike : (15 October 2017 - 07:19 AM)

Plus, The Beast Within is overall not a very good story.

@  Onyxstrike : (15 October 2017 - 07:19 AM)

The problem is is that Victory's dreams are meant to prey on the Dinobot's character flaws. For instance, Grimlock downing every Decepticon in his path, but falling for Starscream's begging for mercy schtick, preys on his arrogence. What character flaws does The Beast Within prey on? Nothing. The entire premise of the book was to please the many fans who posed the many hypothetical "What if the Dinobots combined?" scenarios way back when, with a gratuitous death count to boot.

@  Bass X0 : (15 October 2017 - 05:51 AM)

What's wrong with wanting it to be a canon dream sequence?

@  TheMightyMol... : (14 October 2017 - 01:14 PM)

go home bass you are drunk

@  Bass X0 : (14 October 2017 - 12:15 PM)

My fanon is that The Beast Within is a follow up the Marvel UK annual story Victory. In Victory, the Dinobots are trapped within a dream world, unable to wake up - each one having dreams, ending in the Dinobots having another dream then waking up in a comic issue. My fanon is that The Beast Within is their final dream that finally pushes them into waking up.

@  TheMightyMol... : (14 October 2017 - 10:25 AM)

As long as that means The Beast Within is still non-canon, I'm fine with it.

@  Locoman : (14 October 2017 - 09:29 AM)

When everything is canon, nothing is.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 October 2017 - 09:25 AM)

The TF multiverse is an arbitrary concept. Whatever an author thinks, goes.

@  TheMightyMol... : (14 October 2017 - 05:59 AM)

Trypticon vs Deathsaurer. Make it happen!

@  tffan01 : (14 October 2017 - 05:31 AM)

Going by AVP, is Spider-Man and Zoids comic canon to the TF multiverse???

@  D Immortalis : (14 October 2017 - 12:37 AM)

stop that! we shall never speak of the "Embarassment", 'lest we be punished with more like it! =]

@  Pennpenn : (13 October 2017 - 08:23 PM)

Would the mutant heads have been on the headmasters or on the bodies (sort of like TR Galvatron's "helmet")?

@  Shrug : (13 October 2017 - 08:05 PM)

Alternate reality: Beast Wars mutant heads really took off. Nearly every Transformers since '96 has featured them. The big complaint against the line-wide gimmick in TR isn't being headmasters, it's the lack of mutant heads.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (13 October 2017 - 07:03 PM)

Car TF molds get made all the time; bat TF molds don't. I feel like that justifies making a new Convobat from a mold configured highly unlike the original.

@  Bass X0 : (13 October 2017 - 05:56 PM)

and yet Mindwipe is good enough to use as Convobat.

@  Shrug : (13 October 2017 - 03:19 PM)

I'm okay with that.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (13 October 2017 - 03:07 PM)

Takara seems to have decided that the TR Chromedome mold is unsuitable for anyone else besides Chromedome.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (13 October 2017 - 03:07 PM)

*shrug* No 21st century (Macromaster) Nightbeat toy seems to have satisfied a decent number of people, from what I understand.

@  Locoman : (13 October 2017 - 02:57 PM)

You could probably finagle a pretty good Nightbeat body from TR Chromedome, or even a heavy retool of Cogman.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (13 October 2017 - 02:44 PM)

Nightbeat in particular. Hasbro seems to love him.

@  Shrug : (13 October 2017 - 12:21 PM)

Yeah, they seem to be exploring every possible avenue of G1 now.


Photo
- - - - -

Yellowing cured!


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
91 replies to this topic

#21 Bass X0

Bass X0
  • Citizen
  • 43386 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:22 PM

Dumb Robot: You will doubtless seek life for your yellowed toys. But *AK* will they want life if -- if it comes like this? Hydrogen Peroxide affects no type of toy in the same way. What I ask -- -- will it do to Transformers?

Grimlock: Er... Make us whiter, make us brighter!

Dumb Robot: Ha-Ha *GGN* Yes, yes. It will do that all right. But what else? Will it eat you from the inside out? Will it distort your bodies? --Or will it make you crumble like my friends you encountered? Will your toys thank you for saving them -- or curse you? *UHH* Take me for example. I was suffering from a wasting disease, my color slowly decaying. It was long , drawn out but at least I'd reach the storage tub I so *URR* badly craved. Then they cured me. Only they DIDN'T cure me! Uh-uh! They brought me back to white so I could yellow again -- this time feeling every plastic part break down and fade. All thanks to Hydrogen Peroxide! It's said *UHN* we guard against the Hydrogen Peroxide jealously. Not so. We guard others AGAINST Hydrogen Peroxide!

Edited by Bass X0, 08 December 2008 - 02:00 PM.

Just because you can't win doesn't mean you stop working.


#22 Autobus Prime

Autobus Prime

    Thank you for choosing Ponyville Trailways!

  • Citizen
  • 5698 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:55 PM

Folks:

Warning! Science.

Warning 2! Amateur. (I'm trained as Wheeljack, not Quickmix.)

You have been warned. Now prepare for the geekstorm.

WHOA.

This is awesome to the max. UV-catalyzed peroxide bleaching! Now we need to figure out what's happening.

I think I've got a partial theory.

Photooxidation creates chains of alternating single-double carbon bonds in the hydrocarbon molecules - the conjugated unsaturation mentioned in the NES article below. This forms chromophores in the molecules, color-causing regions, turning the molecules into dyes. Chromophores formed by conjugated systems...are yellow!

The hydrogen peroxide bleaches these by breaking double bonds and forming an epoxide group - an oxygen atom bonded to two adjacent carbons, which remain bonded to each other by a single bond. This turns the chromophores colorless.

Now, here's what I'm wondering -

-where in the ABS structure is the chromophore forming? The polybutadiene chain or the cross-chains?

-brittleness (due to UV-induced cross-linking) and yellowing seem to be separate modes of deterioration. What effect might this relatively fast UV-catalyzed oxidation have on cross-linking?

-how does the UV light catalyze this bleaching, if indeed it is doing that?

There's a LOT of papers on photooxidation and photodegradation of polymers! I have been browsing abstracts, because I don't want to buy the actual papers. If anybody has access to polymer science journals, it would be well worth a look. I think there is a neat puzzle here for the chemists here to figure out! I know you're out there.

One thing I can suggest from an engineering POV is a test for brittleness. Take some identical parts and treat them, then do a tension test to see how easily they break, and examine the broken ends for signs of embrittlement. Compare yellowed parts, bleached yellowed parts, and unbleached, unyellowed parts. I think a good source would be a scrap computer case; they're flat, so you could get good test specimens, and they're usually ABS.

Nerdy excitement! Let it spill into the streets.

Refs:

http://www.vintageco...hp/archives/189

http://en.wikipedia....njugated_system

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Chromophore

http://mysite.du.edu.../phys/perox.htm

Edited by Autobus Prime, 08 December 2008 - 12:58 PM.





#23 G.B.Blackrock

G.B.Blackrock

    Autobot Ally

  • Supporter
  • 11192 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 01:48 PM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Dec 8 2008, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You will doubtless seek life for your yellowed toys. But *AK* will they want life if -- if it comes like this? Hydrogen Peroxide affects no type of toy in the same way. What I ask -- -- will it do to Transformers?

Er... Make us whiter, make us brighter!

Ha-Ha *GGN* Yes, yes. It will do that all right. But what else? Will it eat you from the inside out? Will it distort your bodies? --Or will it make you crumble like my friends you encountered? Will your toys thank you for saving them -- or curse you?

Bass X0 wins the thread!

#24 Treadshot 2.0

Treadshot 2.0

    ...or should I?

  • Citizen
  • 7774 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:39 PM

This should be frontpaged. It's some of the biggest news in toy collecting fandom.

#25 G.B.Blackrock

G.B.Blackrock

    Autobot Ally

  • Supporter
  • 11192 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:24 PM

QUOTE(Treadshot 2.0 @ Dec 8 2008, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This should be frontpaged. It's some of the biggest news in toy collecting fandom.

Would need some heavy "we're still trying to determine if this method is safe" disclaimers....

#26 lonegamer8

lonegamer8

    Handsome afthead, ain't he? *tries not to start fangirling*

  • Retired Staff
  • 9462 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:34 PM

QUOTE(G.B.Blackrock @ Dec 8 2008, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Treadshot 2.0 @ Dec 8 2008, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This should be frontpaged. It's some of the biggest news in toy collecting fandom.

Would need some heavy "we're still trying to determine if this method is safe" disclaimers....

Too true.

My works! Lemme show you 'em!

Avatar base courtesy of Wombat King <- not at the moment


Allspark's August Reading List 2007 - "Sides"
Allspark's July Fic Challenge 2007 "Red Carpet" winner - "Blue Carpet"
The NEW TFWiki!
Henkei! Henkei! Transformers pack-in comic summaries.
Henkei! Henkei! Transformers monthly manga summaries.

#27 Esser-Z

Esser-Z

    I'm never going down at the hands of the likes of you

  • Citizen
  • 32940 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:55 PM

I'll be watching this. Mostly with my science nerd side, for now (don't have any yellowed toys, yet). It's tentatively really cool.

#28 Spark

Spark
  • Citizen
  • 35890 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 05:05 PM

Hmm... I've got an Ultra Magnus and a bunch of Seacons and Micromasters that need this, but I do think we need some time trials before this becomes the standard.

I feel like we're being the toy version of the FDA.
Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#29 Fender Bender

Fender Bender

    Decepticon Cheesehead

  • Validating
  • 480 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:08 PM

QUOTE(Spark @ Dec 8 2008, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmm... I've got an Ultra Magnus and a bunch of Seacons and Micromasters that need this, but I do think we need some time trials before this becomes the standard.

I feel like we're being the toy version of the FDA.


Well, we are so to speak. We are all AFRAID (Action Figure Research And Improvement Developers)













icon-waspy.gif


#30 Cat

Cat
  • Retired Staff
  • 11612 posts

Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:27 PM

So, I just got back from the dentists.

I got my teeth whitened. They used some new light procedure, cost a grand.

BUT I have a little kit, so I can periodically top my teeth off as needed. At the moment, they're now dazzling white.

I'm curious about what effect, if any, this gel would have on a TF.

Thoughts?


#31 Tigerpaw28

Tigerpaw28
  • Citizen
  • 386 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 01:41 AM

QUOTE(Mecha KJ @ Dec 8 2008, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, I just got back from the dentists.

I got my teeth whitened. They used some new light procedure, cost a grand.

BUT I have a little kit, so I can periodically top my teeth off as needed. At the moment, they're now dazzling white.

I'm curious about what effect, if any, this gel would have on a TF.

Thoughts?


I think you just hit the nail on the head. If I'm not mistaken, that gel contains hydrogen peroxide and as you said, it's being activated by the light.

That's pretty similar to the process that's the subject of this thread. This would be a good starting point to find out what, exactly, is happening to the plastic. Which is what I will do tomorrow.

Edited by Tigerpaw28, 09 December 2008 - 01:42 AM.

-Tigerpaw28


#32 Bass X0

Bass X0
  • Citizen
  • 43386 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 04:24 AM

QUOTE
I got my teeth whitened. They used some new light procedure, cost a grand.


was it worth it?

white teeth is something desirable but a grand goes a long way spent on other stuff.

Just because you can't win doesn't mean you stop working.


#33 Cat

Cat
  • Retired Staff
  • 11612 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 06:27 AM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Dec 9 2008, 04:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
I got my teeth whitened. They used some new light procedure, cost a grand.


was it worth it?

white teeth is something desirable but a grand goes a long way spent on other stuff.


Yes, it was worth it. I'm in agony because it's aggravated the nerve endings in my teeth, but I'm absolutely thrilled with the results.


If it helps find a cure for (solemn voice) TF yellowing, then no price was too high........



#34 Silent_Magnus

Silent_Magnus
  • Citizen
  • 6055 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 08:04 AM

I wonder if this video is appropriate for this topic.

link

(if you want to, you can see Darth Vader as a yellowed toy, and the fire as Hydrogen Peroxide)

Edited by Silent_Magnus, 09 December 2008 - 08:15 AM.



#35 (Deactivated) Domon Kasshu

(Deactivated) Domon Kasshu
  • Guests

Posted 09 December 2008 - 08:21 AM

I saw this story on the front page, so I thought I might share a few images of using hydrogen peroxide on a Transformer as well.

This is the original knee joint on a Smokescreen Alternator: Original Knee Assembly

The joint was treated with overrun of store bought hydrogen peroxide from a q-tip over the course of a few days(it was actually being used to remove the racing detail on the car), without being placed in sunlight for extended periods of time.

Picture One
Picture Two
Picture Three

The leg pretty much crumbled in my hands when I was trying to work with it later. I'd especially be cautious with thin plastic and areas where joints are moved frequently... but I can't say I'd recommend doing this at all.

#36 Autobus Prime

Autobus Prime

    Thank you for choosing Ponyville Trailways!

  • Citizen
  • 5698 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 09:06 AM

Folks:

I feel I should also point this out...and I think there ought to be more emphasis on safety in the news article. A nice white Fort Max does you no good if you can't see it.

MSDS for H202, 20% - 40%:

http://msds.fmc.com/...5-MSDS_US-E.pdf

Please take note that these concentrations of hydrogen peroxide...

-Are corrosive to eyes, nose, throat, lungs, and GI tract,

-May cause corneal damage or blindness if splashed in eyes, especially if not rinsed away,

-Reacts quickly with wool, cotton, and leather - do not wear these materials when working with these concentrations of H2O2,

-May generate large amounts of gas

-May concentrate by water evaporation and self-ignite if spilled on combustible materials and allowed to dry. Combustible materials exposed to hydrogen peroxide should be submerged or rinsed with lots of water to ensure all peroxide residue has been removed.

This is not the fizzy 3% stuff from the drugstore!

DK: That's interesting. It almost looks like a GPS break in the photo - is it similar? Brittle fracture, dust and shards?

What concentration were you using and how long did it remain on the parts? Anybody know if that's PVC or ABS?









#37 Galenraff

Galenraff

    Sarcasm: unappreciated.

  • Administrator
  • 33544 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 10:05 AM

This sounds interesting, but I hope it's not the new "dishwasher dusting."

ALERT: Everything is fine.


#38 JRSBill

JRSBill

    Bow Ties are Cool

  • Supporter
  • 1342 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 02:34 PM

We use 35% here at the shop for doing various cleanings.

If you don't wear gloves and get it on yours hands, they will instantly turn white and BURN. That's not even if it gets in a cut, then it is even worse.

As for brittleness, SCH80 PVC pipe is grey and it will completely remove the color from it. After a few years of using liquid with the H202, the SCH80 pipe does become brittle and can shatter.

Toys are probably around SCH1. If it weakens SCH80 piping after a few years, I can only imagine what will happen to toys.

G1 stuff might hold up better than the newer stuff. I'm sure Animated Ratchet soaked in that stuff would just fall apart if left exposed to the stuff too long.

#39 Autobus Prime

Autobus Prime

    Thank you for choosing Ponyville Trailways!

  • Citizen
  • 5698 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE(JRSBill @ Dec 9 2008, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We use 35% here at the shop for doing various cleanings.

If you don't wear gloves and get it on yours hands, they will instantly turn white and BURN. That's not even if it gets in a cut, then it is even worse.

As for brittleness, SCH80 PVC pipe is grey and it will completely remove the color from it. After a few years of using liquid with the H202, the SCH80 pipe does become brittle and can shatter.

Toys are probably around SCH1. If it weakens SCH80 piping after a few years, I can only imagine what will happen to toys.

G1 stuff might hold up better than the newer stuff. I'm sure Animated Ratchet soaked in that stuff would just fall apart if left exposed to the stuff too long.


JB:

Schedule 80 is actually a dimensional schedule (wall thickness etc) rather than a material spec...it's thicker than Sch 40, but the resin et cetera isn't necessarily better.

The point about safety is REALLY good and needs to be repeated, or sooner or later somebody is going to hurt themselves.

I am wondering now whether PVC itself is more prone to damage than ABS. Is this pipe in contact with H202 flows continuously for several years, or is it being used to clean the pipes? How often?




#40 Cat

Cat
  • Retired Staff
  • 11612 posts

Posted 09 December 2008 - 09:46 PM

The stuff I got for my teeth is 22%.

That seems like a reasonable concentration to experiment with.

Now I just need to buy a junker off Ebay, I don't have anyone I'm willing to sacrfice...