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@  unluckiness : (28 May 2017 - 07:47 AM)

I'm kinda glad. A couple tie-in stories aside, Secret Invasion was a mess.

@  Steevy Maximus : (28 May 2017 - 07:23 AM)

Almost makes you wonder if some of the aborted Micronauts relaunch concept didn't slip in...

@  Whirl Maximus : (28 May 2017 - 07:20 AM)

Titan Masters could quite easily have been Transformers: Secret invasion, the return of the Mini-cons/Stentarians but noooooo, it had to be whatever the pit it is.

@  Pennpenn : (28 May 2017 - 02:59 AM)

Fairly sure I used too much flour. Oh well.

@  Pennpenn : (28 May 2017 - 02:24 AM)

Scones in the oven.

@  Pennpenn : (28 May 2017 - 01:54 AM)

Considering whether it's worth the effort to make scones

@  Steevy Maximus : (27 May 2017 - 07:36 PM)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gundam-Breaker-3-BREAK-EDITION-English-PS4-Game-GOTY-Physical-Version-/142395861602?hash=item2127746a62:g:kb0AAOSw8lpZKS31

@  Steevy Maximus : (27 May 2017 - 07:36 PM)

TMM, free shipping

@  unluckiness : (27 May 2017 - 07:33 PM)

Even if it's just 4 bucks, people shouldn't be patronizing obvious scams.

@  TheMightyMol... : (27 May 2017 - 05:37 PM)

What's the shipping price?

@  Steevy Maximus : (27 May 2017 - 05:18 PM)

Yeah, but it's cheaper than all the Hong Kong sellers running at $65+

@  2017 : (27 May 2017 - 05:07 PM)

It sounds like a scam.

@  Steevy Maximus : (27 May 2017 - 04:32 PM)

I know, RIGHT?!

@  wonko the sane? : (27 May 2017 - 04:23 PM)

Part of me is screaming "no", and part of me says "It's just four bucks, hit it and hope for the best".

@  Steevy Maximus : (27 May 2017 - 04:09 PM)

Hmmm,...do I take the chance on a copy of Gundam Breaker 3 Break Edition for $4 from a China seller with zero feedback?

@  unluckiness : (27 May 2017 - 11:19 AM)

and collect cobwebs

@  Rycochet : (27 May 2017 - 11:06 AM)

Aside from getting stuck in bathtubs and getting eaten by family pets.

@  Bass X0 : (27 May 2017 - 10:10 AM)

Spider-Man toys don't do whatever a spider can either...

@  Pennpenn : (27 May 2017 - 04:38 AM)

Grax is only invisible when no one is looking at them. No idea what's wrong with your Xort.

@  Whirl Maximus : (27 May 2017 - 04:16 AM)

Titan Masters is filled with false advertising, Grax doesn't make any figure invisible and Xort doesn't do anything with gravity. Maybe they'll be in the Transformer toys of tomorrow which will be actual robots with AI.

@  Waspinator : (27 May 2017 - 02:19 AM)

So you can bite his shiny metal ass?

@  unluckiness : (27 May 2017 - 02:12 AM)

Any particular reason TLK Voyager Optimus has his ass painted silver?

@  Noideaforaname : (26 May 2017 - 09:58 PM)

Loki makes life interesting. "I HAVE A PLAN FOR GETTING BACK THOR'S HAMMER!! HE'LL NEED TO WEAR THIS WEDDING DRESS!"

@  Echowarrior : (26 May 2017 - 09:16 PM)

Thor was a great guy. Same as most of the Asgard. Loki was a jerk, though.

@  wonko the sane? : (26 May 2017 - 07:21 PM)

I think thor was just too smart to NOT call us stupid next to him.

@  Pennpenn : (26 May 2017 - 07:18 PM)

Six of one, half a dozen of the other?

@  wonko the sane? : (26 May 2017 - 07:17 PM)

I always interpreted that scene to mean that asgardians weren't capable of breaking down problems in the same way as humans.

@  Pennpenn : (26 May 2017 - 06:58 AM)

I mean, SG1 was a good show on balance. One of my favourite things was Thor admitting he found humans good to keep around because they so often came up with stupid ideas that nevertheless worked out.

@  Whirl Maximus : (26 May 2017 - 05:59 AM)

Those episodes were 1969 and 2010.

@  Whirl Maximus : (26 May 2017 - 05:59 AM)

Stargate sg1 was loosely based on the movie, it thrived on continuity it was impressive how old situations and solutions would come back in unexpected ways. Continuum had it's villain use the characters own solution in two previous episodes against them.

@  Pennpenn : (26 May 2017 - 05:39 AM)

And yeah, name is based on a part of my surname. Can't remember why I picked it. Lost to memories of the primordial early 2000s.

@  Pennpenn : (26 May 2017 - 05:37 AM)

Like how Abydos in the movie is in another galaxy on the far side of the universe, but Abydos in SG1 is the closest world to Earth (and that was the only reason the gate could still get there) and even getting to other galaxies was impossible with the normal gates.

@  Pennpenn : (26 May 2017 - 05:35 AM)

I was very tired when I said that, but what I meant was a lot of stuff that is in the original Stargate movie is contradicted a lot in Stargate SG1.

@  unluckiness : (26 May 2017 - 05:29 AM)

OBJECTION

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (26 May 2017 - 12:48 AM)

I remember a fanfic that had Swindle as Lawyer.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (25 May 2017 - 10:08 PM)

No, I am referring to before Beast Wars: Uprising. I swear Swindle was a lawyer in a story before "A Brush With Infamy".

@  Telly : (25 May 2017 - 09:47 PM)

i cant get the link to work for the life of me. just go to the wiki and type "a brush with infamy" in the search box and itll come up

@  Telly : (25 May 2017 - 09:40 PM)

grr. check the post above this one. stupid non working link and i cant delete shouts...

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (25 May 2017 - 09:25 PM)

I swear I've read the story but now I forget which one it is.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (25 May 2017 - 09:25 PM)

When has G1 Swindle been a lawyer before?

@  Rycochet : (25 May 2017 - 07:20 PM)

All I know about PennPenn is he's so good they named him twice.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (25 May 2017 - 07:02 PM)

Nope.. Pennpenn is actually a Prinny dood!

@  Foffy : (25 May 2017 - 06:47 PM)

I wonder if Pennpenn is related to Sean Penn.

@  Kalidor : (25 May 2017 - 04:31 PM)

PennPenn - What are you talking about?

@  wonko the sane? : (25 May 2017 - 02:13 PM)

It's the only way for wisconsin to build it's population.

@  Bass X0 : (25 May 2017 - 02:04 PM)

Wisconsin law: Whenever two trains meet at an intersection of said tracks, neither shall proceed until the other has.

@  Nevermore : (25 May 2017 - 11:58 AM)

Prequel creep?

@  Pennpenn : (25 May 2017 - 09:47 AM)

The prequel-creep from the original Stargate movie to SG1 is kinda funny.

@  Paladin : (25 May 2017 - 08:12 AM)

clickbaid browser hijacker explains everything?

@  Nevermore : (25 May 2017 - 07:29 AM)

Wow, this explains a lot! http://www.transfo


Photo
- - - - -

Yellowing cured!


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91 replies to this topic

#21 Bass X0

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:22 PM

Dumb Robot: You will doubtless seek life for your yellowed toys. But *AK* will they want life if -- if it comes like this? Hydrogen Peroxide affects no type of toy in the same way. What I ask -- -- will it do to Transformers?

Grimlock: Er... Make us whiter, make us brighter!

Dumb Robot: Ha-Ha *GGN* Yes, yes. It will do that all right. But what else? Will it eat you from the inside out? Will it distort your bodies? --Or will it make you crumble like my friends you encountered? Will your toys thank you for saving them -- or curse you? *UHH* Take me for example. I was suffering from a wasting disease, my color slowly decaying. It was long , drawn out but at least I'd reach the storage tub I so *URR* badly craved. Then they cured me. Only they DIDN'T cure me! Uh-uh! They brought me back to white so I could yellow again -- this time feeling every plastic part break down and fade. All thanks to Hydrogen Peroxide! It's said *UHN* we guard against the Hydrogen Peroxide jealously. Not so. We guard others AGAINST Hydrogen Peroxide!

Edited by Bass X0, 08 December 2008 - 02:00 PM.

Just because you can't win doesn't mean you stop working.


#22 Autobus Prime

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:55 PM

Folks:

Warning! Science.

Warning 2! Amateur. (I'm trained as Wheeljack, not Quickmix.)

You have been warned. Now prepare for the geekstorm.

WHOA.

This is awesome to the max. UV-catalyzed peroxide bleaching! Now we need to figure out what's happening.

I think I've got a partial theory.

Photooxidation creates chains of alternating single-double carbon bonds in the hydrocarbon molecules - the conjugated unsaturation mentioned in the NES article below. This forms chromophores in the molecules, color-causing regions, turning the molecules into dyes. Chromophores formed by conjugated systems...are yellow!

The hydrogen peroxide bleaches these by breaking double bonds and forming an epoxide group - an oxygen atom bonded to two adjacent carbons, which remain bonded to each other by a single bond. This turns the chromophores colorless.

Now, here's what I'm wondering -

-where in the ABS structure is the chromophore forming? The polybutadiene chain or the cross-chains?

-brittleness (due to UV-induced cross-linking) and yellowing seem to be separate modes of deterioration. What effect might this relatively fast UV-catalyzed oxidation have on cross-linking?

-how does the UV light catalyze this bleaching, if indeed it is doing that?

There's a LOT of papers on photooxidation and photodegradation of polymers! I have been browsing abstracts, because I don't want to buy the actual papers. If anybody has access to polymer science journals, it would be well worth a look. I think there is a neat puzzle here for the chemists here to figure out! I know you're out there.

One thing I can suggest from an engineering POV is a test for brittleness. Take some identical parts and treat them, then do a tension test to see how easily they break, and examine the broken ends for signs of embrittlement. Compare yellowed parts, bleached yellowed parts, and unbleached, unyellowed parts. I think a good source would be a scrap computer case; they're flat, so you could get good test specimens, and they're usually ABS.

Nerdy excitement! Let it spill into the streets.

Refs:

http://www.vintageco...hp/archives/189

http://en.wikipedia....njugated_system

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Chromophore

http://mysite.du.edu.../phys/perox.htm

Edited by Autobus Prime, 08 December 2008 - 12:58 PM.





#23 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 01:48 PM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Dec 8 2008, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You will doubtless seek life for your yellowed toys. But *AK* will they want life if -- if it comes like this? Hydrogen Peroxide affects no type of toy in the same way. What I ask -- -- will it do to Transformers?

Er... Make us whiter, make us brighter!

Ha-Ha *GGN* Yes, yes. It will do that all right. But what else? Will it eat you from the inside out? Will it distort your bodies? --Or will it make you crumble like my friends you encountered? Will your toys thank you for saving them -- or curse you?

Bass X0 wins the thread!

#24 Treadshot 2.0

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:39 PM

This should be frontpaged. It's some of the biggest news in toy collecting fandom.

#25 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:24 PM

QUOTE(Treadshot 2.0 @ Dec 8 2008, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This should be frontpaged. It's some of the biggest news in toy collecting fandom.

Would need some heavy "we're still trying to determine if this method is safe" disclaimers....

#26 lonegamer8

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:34 PM

QUOTE(G.B.Blackrock @ Dec 8 2008, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Treadshot 2.0 @ Dec 8 2008, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This should be frontpaged. It's some of the biggest news in toy collecting fandom.

Would need some heavy "we're still trying to determine if this method is safe" disclaimers....

Too true.

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#27 Esser-Z

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:55 PM

I'll be watching this. Mostly with my science nerd side, for now (don't have any yellowed toys, yet). It's tentatively really cool.

#28 Spark

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 05:05 PM

Hmm... I've got an Ultra Magnus and a bunch of Seacons and Micromasters that need this, but I do think we need some time trials before this becomes the standard.

I feel like we're being the toy version of the FDA.
Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#29 Fender Bender

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:08 PM

QUOTE(Spark @ Dec 8 2008, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmm... I've got an Ultra Magnus and a bunch of Seacons and Micromasters that need this, but I do think we need some time trials before this becomes the standard.

I feel like we're being the toy version of the FDA.


Well, we are so to speak. We are all AFRAID (Action Figure Research And Improvement Developers)













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#30 Cat

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:27 PM

So, I just got back from the dentists.

I got my teeth whitened. They used some new light procedure, cost a grand.

BUT I have a little kit, so I can periodically top my teeth off as needed. At the moment, they're now dazzling white.

I'm curious about what effect, if any, this gel would have on a TF.

Thoughts?


#31 Tigerpaw28

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 01:41 AM

QUOTE(Mecha KJ @ Dec 8 2008, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, I just got back from the dentists.

I got my teeth whitened. They used some new light procedure, cost a grand.

BUT I have a little kit, so I can periodically top my teeth off as needed. At the moment, they're now dazzling white.

I'm curious about what effect, if any, this gel would have on a TF.

Thoughts?


I think you just hit the nail on the head. If I'm not mistaken, that gel contains hydrogen peroxide and as you said, it's being activated by the light.

That's pretty similar to the process that's the subject of this thread. This would be a good starting point to find out what, exactly, is happening to the plastic. Which is what I will do tomorrow.

Edited by Tigerpaw28, 09 December 2008 - 01:42 AM.

-Tigerpaw28


#32 Bass X0

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 04:24 AM

QUOTE
I got my teeth whitened. They used some new light procedure, cost a grand.


was it worth it?

white teeth is something desirable but a grand goes a long way spent on other stuff.

Just because you can't win doesn't mean you stop working.


#33 Cat

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 06:27 AM

QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Dec 9 2008, 04:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
I got my teeth whitened. They used some new light procedure, cost a grand.


was it worth it?

white teeth is something desirable but a grand goes a long way spent on other stuff.


Yes, it was worth it. I'm in agony because it's aggravated the nerve endings in my teeth, but I'm absolutely thrilled with the results.


If it helps find a cure for (solemn voice) TF yellowing, then no price was too high........



#34 Silent_Magnus

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 08:04 AM

I wonder if this video is appropriate for this topic.

link

(if you want to, you can see Darth Vader as a yellowed toy, and the fire as Hydrogen Peroxide)

Edited by Silent_Magnus, 09 December 2008 - 08:15 AM.



#35 (Deactivated) Domon Kasshu

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 08:21 AM

I saw this story on the front page, so I thought I might share a few images of using hydrogen peroxide on a Transformer as well.

This is the original knee joint on a Smokescreen Alternator: Original Knee Assembly

The joint was treated with overrun of store bought hydrogen peroxide from a q-tip over the course of a few days(it was actually being used to remove the racing detail on the car), without being placed in sunlight for extended periods of time.

Picture One
Picture Two
Picture Three

The leg pretty much crumbled in my hands when I was trying to work with it later. I'd especially be cautious with thin plastic and areas where joints are moved frequently... but I can't say I'd recommend doing this at all.

#36 Autobus Prime

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 09:06 AM

Folks:

I feel I should also point this out...and I think there ought to be more emphasis on safety in the news article. A nice white Fort Max does you no good if you can't see it.

MSDS for H202, 20% - 40%:

http://msds.fmc.com/...5-MSDS_US-E.pdf

Please take note that these concentrations of hydrogen peroxide...

-Are corrosive to eyes, nose, throat, lungs, and GI tract,

-May cause corneal damage or blindness if splashed in eyes, especially if not rinsed away,

-Reacts quickly with wool, cotton, and leather - do not wear these materials when working with these concentrations of H2O2,

-May generate large amounts of gas

-May concentrate by water evaporation and self-ignite if spilled on combustible materials and allowed to dry. Combustible materials exposed to hydrogen peroxide should be submerged or rinsed with lots of water to ensure all peroxide residue has been removed.

This is not the fizzy 3% stuff from the drugstore!

DK: That's interesting. It almost looks like a GPS break in the photo - is it similar? Brittle fracture, dust and shards?

What concentration were you using and how long did it remain on the parts? Anybody know if that's PVC or ABS?









#37 Galenraff

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 10:05 AM

This sounds interesting, but I hope it's not the new "dishwasher dusting."

post-649-0-22833100-1488828098.jpg


#38 JRSBill

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 02:34 PM

We use 35% here at the shop for doing various cleanings.

If you don't wear gloves and get it on yours hands, they will instantly turn white and BURN. That's not even if it gets in a cut, then it is even worse.

As for brittleness, SCH80 PVC pipe is grey and it will completely remove the color from it. After a few years of using liquid with the H202, the SCH80 pipe does become brittle and can shatter.

Toys are probably around SCH1. If it weakens SCH80 piping after a few years, I can only imagine what will happen to toys.

G1 stuff might hold up better than the newer stuff. I'm sure Animated Ratchet soaked in that stuff would just fall apart if left exposed to the stuff too long.

#39 Autobus Prime

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE(JRSBill @ Dec 9 2008, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We use 35% here at the shop for doing various cleanings.

If you don't wear gloves and get it on yours hands, they will instantly turn white and BURN. That's not even if it gets in a cut, then it is even worse.

As for brittleness, SCH80 PVC pipe is grey and it will completely remove the color from it. After a few years of using liquid with the H202, the SCH80 pipe does become brittle and can shatter.

Toys are probably around SCH1. If it weakens SCH80 piping after a few years, I can only imagine what will happen to toys.

G1 stuff might hold up better than the newer stuff. I'm sure Animated Ratchet soaked in that stuff would just fall apart if left exposed to the stuff too long.


JB:

Schedule 80 is actually a dimensional schedule (wall thickness etc) rather than a material spec...it's thicker than Sch 40, but the resin et cetera isn't necessarily better.

The point about safety is REALLY good and needs to be repeated, or sooner or later somebody is going to hurt themselves.

I am wondering now whether PVC itself is more prone to damage than ABS. Is this pipe in contact with H202 flows continuously for several years, or is it being used to clean the pipes? How often?




#40 Cat

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 09:46 PM

The stuff I got for my teeth is 22%.

That seems like a reasonable concentration to experiment with.

Now I just need to buy a junker off Ebay, I don't have anyone I'm willing to sacrfice...