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@  Echowarrior : (06 May 2021 - 08:56 PM)

Best of luck, Nevermore.

@  wonko the sane? : (06 May 2021 - 10:18 AM)

Best of luck man.

@  electricidad : (05 May 2021 - 03:22 PM)

GOOD LUCK, NEVERMORE!

@  Nevermore : (05 May 2021 - 03:14 PM)

The election committee whose chairman I am has been preparing this election since February. There's no real gain for me either way, so I don't care that much for the outcome, but it's going to be a stressful day for me either way.

@  Nevermore : (05 May 2021 - 03:13 PM)

Wish me luck. Tomorrow is this year's supervisory board election at my workplace, and I'm the guy in charge of organizing the election.

@  tigerhawk : (05 May 2021 - 01:30 PM)

I have two Overlords one was faulty with a melted foot and they never took it back but replaced it, I just checked the guns, both the handles seem to be turning white.

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 May 2021 - 07:38 PM)

REVELATION! Towering war machines more durable than nerd!

@  Telly : (04 May 2021 - 07:18 PM)

pansy. my trypticon AND scorponok took a header from 4 feet up and only had parts pop off that were easily reattached. guess 'cons are tougher...

@  tigerhawk : (04 May 2021 - 04:03 PM)

My TR Perceptor fell and the titan master peg in the leg snapped off. Fortunately I have the Legends one.

@  wonko the sane? : (02 May 2021 - 08:50 PM)

It's a fairly well known fact that "it's a wonderful life" only became popular after it dropped into the public domain. So, yeah, they probably did.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (02 May 2021 - 08:29 PM)

I read an interesting observation on Twitter. If it is the natural course of a human to grow into Grandpa Abe yelling at a cloud, but nostalgia also yields rose-tinted glasses for the likes of one's youth, then did Greatest Generation adults bemoan how Baby Boomer children loved box office flops such as The Wizard of Oz and It's a Wonderful Life?

@  Steevy Maximus : (02 May 2021 - 09:54 AM)

You’re traveling down a rabbit hole I dare not follow

@  Otaku : (02 May 2021 - 09:26 AM)

At the same time, with my almost non-existent knowledge of Japanese and how oddly some things translate, seeing "Gorgeous Giorgios Gorges" made me wonder if that would make it "JoJoJo"... which now has my brain terrified of a weird Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo/Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Crossover. @[email protected]

@  Otaku : (02 May 2021 - 09:24 AM)

It is always weird when things align.  This talk of Gorgeous Giorgios Gorges in the SquawkBox reminded me of King Gorgeous Gorge on the FoxBox.

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 May 2021 - 08:52 PM)

Nice

@  Nevermore : (01 May 2021 - 09:03 AM)

I got one even better: After that character by the name of Gorgeous Giorgios dies in a gorge, they name that whole area after him: The Gorgeous Giorgios Gorges.

@  tigerhawk : (30 April 2021 - 01:56 AM)

Paint apps did slide notably during TR, wave one's Titan Masters had detail but wave 2 onwards was absent of them. Wave 5's Ramhorn, Dreadnaut, Scorchfire and Aimless had detail but Murk and Hazard didn't, can't speak for Flameout as I got Legends Twintwist and Slugslinger.

@  kizudarake : (29 April 2021 - 04:50 PM)

Anyone here got any g1 jet fire parts for sale?

@  wonko the sane? : (29 April 2021 - 04:12 PM)

Other than a few overly tight joints, the paints apps are my single complaint about the generations line.

@  tigerhawk : (29 April 2021 - 02:25 PM)

I just saw Legends Leo Prime now I wish Titans Return Alpha Trion had a few more paint apps for ship mode.

@  walruslaw : (28 April 2021 - 09:33 PM)

dagrimbo

@  CORVUS : (27 April 2021 - 08:11 PM)

Indeed.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (27 April 2021 - 04:59 PM)

CORVUS: considering that reply, I'm pretty sure this was just another instance of Bass posting poorly-defined drivel as if it were profound.

@  TheMightyMol... : (27 April 2021 - 04:24 PM)

Given the last year and a half or so, is it any surprise?

@  Bass X0 : (27 April 2021 - 04:12 PM)

People are snapping already it seems.

@  Kaon : (27 April 2021 - 12:15 PM)

I like the Shattered Glass Megatron's alt mode

@  CORVUS : (26 April 2021 - 07:30 PM)

I'd like to know what society he's talking about, and what qualifies as "nothing", TBH.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (26 April 2021 - 05:09 PM)

I don't see the point in such a poorly defined "everyone is terrible" statement. He's not complaining about any specific people or specific problems.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (26 April 2021 - 05:06 PM)

I do not see anything about Bass's comment that felt a need for you to attack him.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (26 April 2021 - 04:35 PM)

Bass: does that "everyone" include yourself or are you just trying to act like you're better than everybody without actually proving anything?

@  wonko the sane? : (26 April 2021 - 04:10 PM)

Mostly it's "oh, don't say that right now" and "better learn when to duck".

@  Bass X0 : (26 April 2021 - 04:05 PM)

There's something to be said about society when everyones just an inch away from snapping over nothing.

@  Steevy Maximus : (26 April 2021 - 02:17 PM)

WalMart is a cruel mistress. Today she runneth over...tommorrow, she'll be barren as a desert.

@  -LittleAutob... : (26 April 2021 - 12:21 PM)

I love Wal-mart now- They have way more Transformers figures than Target- last night I came home with a WFC Authentic Wheeljack even though I was torn between wanting TFP Arcee and TF: The Movie Blurr, two figures I have never ever seen before-

@  -LittleAutob... : (25 April 2021 - 10:29 AM)

Spelling intended lol

@  -LittleAutob... : (25 April 2021 - 10:29 AM)

Curious Geogore

@  NotVeryKnightly : (25 April 2021 - 07:54 AM)

"My name is Giovanni Giorgio, but everybody calls me Giorgio"

@  MEDdMI : (25 April 2021 - 07:52 AM)

New JoJo villain, GoGio

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 April 2021 - 07:52 AM)

Is this a Jojo?

@  Nevermore : (25 April 2021 - 06:49 AM)

Now I suddenly have a character with the name "Gorgeous Georgios" in mind.

@  -LittleAutob... : (24 April 2021 - 04:00 PM)

H A -

@  Nevermore : (24 April 2021 - 01:58 PM)

Saint Georgios Day?

@  Donocropolis : (23 April 2021 - 06:59 AM)

more like Saint GORGEOUS Day.

@  tigerhawk : (23 April 2021 - 04:59 AM)

Saint Georges Day.

@  Sabrblade : (21 April 2021 - 11:55 PM)

Glenn Morshower would agree. He goes to auditions with his shoes full of syrup.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 April 2021 - 04:28 PM)

Please, maple syrup can only improve alot of content.

@  Donocropolis : (21 April 2021 - 03:33 PM)

Well, not release it into Canada, no. You'd just get maple syrup all over it.

@  TM2-Megatron : (21 April 2021 - 03:21 PM)

what bothers me most about Canadian rights is that, oftentimes, the rights holders for certain content don't even seem to have any interest in releasing it

@  NotVeryKnightly : (21 April 2021 - 10:46 AM)

It'd be mostly the same even in a world with global copyright law, since even the shortest terms are very long.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 April 2021 - 10:39 AM)

You got me, I just want to watch cartoons without having to pirate them for once.


Photo
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So Letís Talk About Beast Machines


133 replies to this topic

#1 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 10:21 PM

Heya Folks! Been awhile!

After finally seeing a few of the WFC Kingdom figures in person (Ive GOT to get that Dinobot) I decided to watch Beast Wars for about the 8th or so time. A lot of it holds up real well - Season 2 remains one of the best American Cartoons has ever offered. Some of it doesnt - does anyone want to talk about how terrible Go With the Flow really is? Me neither.

But having finished Beast Wars, I figured it was time to give Beast Machines another run - about the third time I think for this series.

Now granted Im only 4 episodes in, but guys. Beast Machines is like really good. Im blown away by how good the animation still is, really taking advantage of the spareness of Cybermon, the dark shadows, and the still 90s cool action and techno. Ive noticed how stylized even the laser blasts are, with comic-book esque flashes around the bolts. And holy crap I didnt remember Megatron sounding so terrifyingly sinister, yesss.

Combined with the slowly unfolding mystery and the constant sense of helplessness, holy cow this show is something else.

So guys what are your more recent thoughts on Beast Machines now that its been nearly 25 years?

I know my thought is I want a goddamn accurate Jetstorm.

ty3jHaa.jpg


#2 Sabrblade

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 10:32 PM

Loved the show as a kid.

 

Loved it as a teenager.

 

And still love it as an adult.

 

It's basically the Majora's Mask to Beast Wars's Ocarina of Time.


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#3 MrBlud

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 10:33 PM

The toys were pretty great.

As for the show...

As a cartoon: B

As a Transformers cartoon: C-

As a Beast Wars sequel: F-

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#4 Noideaforaname

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 10:52 PM

I watched the series twice, both right after Beast Wars, which really didn't do Beast Machines any favors. I really need to watch it just by itself one of these days.

 

 

My initial reaction back then was basically MUNKY NOT TRUKK, oddly enough. Nowadays I adore the Vehicons, but at the time them ditching animal modes for tanks and jets and bikes was enough for me to lose what tenuous interest I had in the brand entirely.



#5 Sabrblade

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 10:57 PM

I know my thought is I want a goddamn accurate Jetstorm.

 

If only:

 

9u2Pz3c.jpg


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#6 Master Fwiffo

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 10:58 PM

why you do this to me?

ty3jHaa.jpg


#7 Sabrblade

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 11:07 PM

why you do this to me?

 

So that we know what to use to keep bugging Hasbro with (now that they're finally acknowledging more than just G1 in mainstream Generations lines).

 

"Make THIS, Hasbro! Give it to us!"

 

;)


Edited by Sabrblade, 27 April 2021 - 11:07 PM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#8 Fero McPigletron

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 11:18 PM

Originally watched it from the middle of season 2 to the end (Silverbolt was already back, when they split into teams to find the sparks). The ending half was one of the best and intense ongoing eps to watch.

Watching season 1 felt like it was going backwards because I had to be introduced to Nightscream and Vehicon generals again but it was fine. Too bad I didn't get to properly experience the twist on the Vehicon general sparks.

I'd say Blackarachnia was the best fighter in the group but Rattrap was the essential team member, since they didn't have Rhinos with them. Good for him for stepping up to be the tech guy.

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   TOY DRAMA THEATER!

1 minute of (minimal) lights, (steady) camera and...  ACTION FIGURES! (mostly Transformers) - Episode 031: Combiners and chest envy 

Episodes here


#9 LordGigaIce

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 12:00 AM

I was 12-13 at the time of Beast Machines. And between just being a 12-13 year old and the story that was more philosophical than I was used to, I just didn't "get" the show. The toys didn't do anything for me either. To be fair, the toys still don't. I think a lot of Beast Machines designs were great, in retrospect, but the toys of the era didn't do them justice. We need more Beast Machines love in Generations.

Anyway I wrote Beast Machines off entirely as that "weird sequel" to Beasties.

 

I revisited it...G-d it has to have been over ten years ago now. Geeze I'm old. Anyway, the whole series was available on YouTube back then, and I binged it in a few days when I was in uni. And you know what? I like it.

There are missteps, to be sure. There's a lot of liberties taken with characterization between Beast Wars and Beast Machines. You sort of have to detach it from Beast Wars to a degree, which isn't ideal for a sequel series.

 

On the whole though, it's a show that explores the ideas behind Transformers and tries to go in some mature directions. Some more cerebral directions that the franchise's television media hasn't come close to matching since. And it was mature in a "hey let's talk about some weighty subjects about philosophy and faith and personal agency/identity" and not what a lot of people think of as "mature," ie overly dark and violent. Beast Machines was a special series, and we'll likely never going to get a show like it again.

 

That, I think, is why its strengths outweigh its weaknesses. The weaknesses are there, but they're easy to forgive because the rest of the show is so unique, in a good way.


Edited by LordGigaIce, 28 April 2021 - 12:01 AM.

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#10 Fnu Aw

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 12:22 AM

Nah.

Look, I adore the Vehicons. One of my collection goals is to hunt down one of each, and I've been slowly chipping away at it. I have an Ultra Jetstorm with intact chrome and you can't have it.

But I still can't get into the show any more than I did at the time. It has problems that go way deeper than how well it works or doesn't as a sequel. I'm not sure it's appropriate to judge in that kind of vacuum anyway, since it is an immediate sequel, not a 'years later' kind of sequel, but whatever. It's not important. It has other problems.

It's late and Copper has the best words for this, so here's some stuff.
 

Yeah, there's naked allegory without in-universe meaning and there's an in-universe reality, and quite a bit of the show makes sense only through one lens or the other but not both. It's kinda bad storytelling, especially given how seriously it all takes itself.

A lot about it makes more sense now though. Conceptually pretty neat, though I'm not really sure if I'd be as into it in practice.
 

This is immediately way more thought than the writers of Beast Machines put in.

Technology vs Nature isn't a bad premise, nor is the message of finding balance, but my god did they not put in the footwork.


Yeah, there's nothing wrong with its not being cyberpunk, I just felt it was worth explaining that wasn't what it was doing. That's separate from the question of whether Beast Machines was actually successful at doing any of the things it was trying to do, which uh ... well.

I feel like the problem Beast Machines has with its thematic elements is that it's written like allegory, but doesn't fill in both sides of the equation. It's never really clear what the conflict between order and individuality has to do with the imagery of machines and nature. Sometimes it seems literal, sometimes it seems like it's more of a thematic parallel, and it never quite adds up. We don't really know what "nature" is to the show except that we're incessantly told about "order" and "free will" or "individuality" and nature seemingly has to be associated with individuality. We don't know what the "balance" between nature and technology means for the Maximals, since it's a fantasy element in a fictional world that doesn't actually get explored in its own right, but it's presented like we're meant to understand it, and treat it as a metaphor for some further social or spiritual thing.

I feel like they could have stuck with the visual contrast between the factions and never tried to make an explicit statement or hang any plot points on it, and that would have been fine, or they could have gone all in and actually explored the two sides of this fantasy yin-yang they were drawing up. What we get feels simultaneously preachy, but too evasive to decode.

Part of me really wants to give it a pass by saying that it was a weird time in Western animation. It's the literal midpoint between BTAS telling people cartoons could be serious sometimes and Airbender delivering on the dream. But Mainframe had just managed to shift both Beast Wars and Reboot into serial shows with some heavier dramatic elements right before launching into Beast Machines, so for the same production company to grab someone unrelated to those projects and tell them to launch a series that would need to deliver on these kinds of serial drama elements and heavier themes from go just seems like it should have been an obviously bad decision even at the time.

 


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#11 Telly

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 12:46 AM

why you do this to me?

 
So that we know what to use to keep bugging Hasbro with (now that they're finally acknowledging more than just G1 in mainstream Generations lines).
 
"Make THIS, Hasbro! Give it to us!"
 
;)

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#12 Megaplexia Prime

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 01:19 AM

Wish I could say, “HA! I told you so!” to all the haters at the time, but I don’t remember who was where when.

Anyway, my view on it hasn’t changed, in that it was a maturing of the Transformers story in a way that was way ahead of its time that was under-appreciated and much more intellectual than people were used to seeing so they hated it whereas at the time I loved it. It was my favorite TF show.

Now, I think it’s not as fun as BW, but I still find it really nifty.

One thing that I remembered back then was getting into constant bickering matches with people online regarding the changes in characterizations that most found jarring or out of left field, but for which I thought were completely natural and people thought me insane for thinking so. Now, I can point to The Walking Dead. Beast Machines is literally The Walking Dead for Our Heroes from Beast Wars. Their home literally overrun by massive maurading hordes of mindless zombies. When you’ve lost everything, that level of despair changes you. In Beast Wars, the Maximals were in their element. They were cock-sure and full of bravado. They were explorers on an alien planet. They are literally living the dream of their professional careers. Except for the whole roving band of criminal pirates they were also marooned with. But when they got home, after all of that, only to arrive to the aftermath of a zombie apocalypse right after all they had to go through to save the universe, that’s got to be a devastating, soul-crushing thing. So Primal became a religious zealot. Rattrap was just done with everything and wanted to hide. Blackarachnia just wanted to live out the rest of her remaining moments with her one true love. Cheetor lost his innocence permanently. Rhinox went completely off the deep end and Silverbolt became permanently disillusioned with his outlook on life. All of these very NATURAL and NORMAL responses to the trauma of completely losing everything you’ve ever known and loved. It’s one thing to have the hope of coming home to constantly lift your spirits up for the next wink and a quip; it’s a whole other thing to go home, and realize there is nothing left; no hope any longer, and for that to utterly break you.

Anyway, I’ve always loved and always will love BM. It’s a fantastical if not tragic sequel to BW. If anyone has anything to say about it’s major departure for characterizations, I simply point to the Walking Dead. Rhinox becoming a megalomaniac makes as much sense as a gym teacher becoming one. It makes sense given their circumstances.

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#13 Unit Eleven

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 02:09 AM

Beast Machines was good

 

You guys are just mean


On rare occasions, I have something to say.

#14 SG Roadbuster

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 03:08 AM

I will still say that after all these years, fox kids saturday morning block was the wrong place to air beast machines. It really should have been on Toonami, or an equivalent prime time slot to bring in the teenaged audience that would have better understood the themes of survivor's guilt, extremism, and the nature of free will.

Also, yeah, the cg has aged better than beast wars and reboot did.

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#15 tigerhawk

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 03:29 AM

At the time I was annoyed with it as I got into Beast Wars during it's run and enjoyed discussing the episodes online on the emerging TF fan message boards (though in the UK we were a always behind). it's always hard when a show goes into new hands that clearly haven't seen the previous material and worse when the actors/VAs that bring their characters to life run with it without chiming in or some new writer or showrunner hates a character and destroys them for everyone and Beast Machines change in character for Rattrap and Megatron was jarring.

It stunk as a sequel at least back then and ripping off The Matrix film with oracles and nature vs machines was lame but a back to back marathon viewing two years ago made me realise the show was made to be watched that way rather then episodically and when removed from Beast Wars and The Matrix, it's fine on it's own.

Mainframes animation was always good and Beast Machines was a stylish step up from Beast Wars, the facial animations were a strong point for Beast Machines as was the acting, both things I'll miss in Netflix Kingdoms.

 

It was pointed out on Youtube Kingdoms wave 1 contained the five that began in Beast Machines: Optimus Primal, Rattrap, Cheetor, Blackarachnia and Megatron.


Edited by tigerhawk, 28 April 2021 - 02:37 PM.

Your scientists have yet to discover how neural networks create self-consciousness, let alone how the human brain processes two-dimensional retinal images into the three-dimensional phenomenon known as perception. Yet you somehow brazenly declare that seeing is believing!


#16 LV!

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 05:19 AM

It is and was very good, and remains arguably the most visually stylish cartoon TF has ever had.

But trying to talk about it twenty years ago exhausted all of the talking about it I will ever be able to tolerate.

#17 TriBlurr

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 05:38 AM

Its an Evolution Revolution



#18 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 06:28 AM

The most sophisticated and philosophical TF show ever, somewhat hampered because it was just a little bit too long for the plot and had to pad with a lot of chase scenes or stretching 1 episode of story into a 3-parter.

Just the open acknowledgment by many of the once-heroes that Megatron is RIGHT - that freedom and individuality can make a society fractured and prone to conflict - is way beyond most cartoons.

#19 bigbot69

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 06:29 AM

I loved the series, it was dark gritty and felt like actions had consequences.

 

It also felt like the last time the lore was really pushed forward before we got endless recycles and varients of g1 and nostalgia (I love g1, don't get me wrong, but we've done it).


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#20 Kup

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 08:30 AM

I think the only thing I hated about BM was that ending, which I know has been discussed to death over the past 21 years.

However, its just not a satisfying conclusion to the original G1 cartoon mythos *for me*. The idea of an organic Cybertron is one thing, but theres no follow up.

Id still like a follow up, which is incredibly unlikely given the multiverse situation we have now.
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