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@  Maruten : (16 June 2021 - 07:13 PM)

Lucky there's a hero arriving in July.

@  Steevy Maximus : (16 June 2021 - 05:38 PM)

I think I've heard "I Need a Hero" more times this past week than I have in the past several years.

@  tigerhawk : (16 June 2021 - 12:41 PM)

Thanks to Earthrise I can recreate the end of Return of Optimus Prime part 1.

@  wonko the sane? : (16 June 2021 - 11:19 AM)

I wish they would do something like that here: but then it would become obvious in which provinces you're getting gouged.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 10:42 AM)

Here in Germany, the price you see is the price you pay, tax included.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 10:42 AM)

I always find it weaird hearing that stores in the US don't initially already taxes in their prices.

@  Nevermore : (16 June 2021 - 04:33 AM)

You know what's kewl? Poor literacy.

@  wonko the sane? : (15 June 2021 - 04:31 PM)

Awesome, thanks for the heads up.

@  CORVUS : (15 June 2021 - 04:12 PM)

Kewl. Thanks!

@  Kalidor : (15 June 2021 - 02:08 PM)

Hey everybody! I wanted to announce that Sarahthecutevixen is our newest addition to the Allspark staff. She's primarily looking over discord stuff, but I wanted to make sure she got a welcome over here as well.

@  NovaSaber : (14 June 2021 - 11:07 AM)

Turn-Bass RPG

@  Sabrblade : (14 June 2021 - 10:21 AM)

Do not X0 quietly into the night.

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 June 2021 - 10:13 AM)

All your Bass are--

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*Bass X0 not available in Alaska or Hawaii.

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Get your own Big Mouth BassX0 for the low price of $19.95 (plusshippingandhandling)

@  repowers : (13 June 2021 - 12:45 PM)

Mr. Speaker, we are for the Bass X0.

@  Nevermore : (13 June 2021 - 06:04 AM)

It's all about that Bass XD.

@  tigerhawk : (13 June 2021 - 02:16 AM)

Will altering the moons orbit in any way help.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (13 June 2021 - 01:51 AM)

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@  Telly : (13 June 2021 - 12:08 AM)

or feed him after midnight

@  wonko the sane? : (12 June 2021 - 09:00 PM)

Just don't drop him.

@  Kaon : (12 June 2021 - 08:03 PM)

man this chat is nothing but Bass X)

@  Nevermore : (12 June 2021 - 07:08 PM)

Carefull, he is a Bass Xo.

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 June 2021 - 05:53 PM)

Aw, it's not even a shiny.

@  Sabrblade : (12 June 2021 - 05:27 PM)

A wild Bass X0 has appeared!

@  Bass X0 : (12 June 2021 - 05:20 PM)

I didn't even try this time.

@  Nevermore : (12 June 2021 - 03:43 AM)

8ass X÷ has hijacked this conversation.

@  Bass X0 : (12 June 2021 - 03:37 AM)

Its Bass X0. I named myself after my three favourite Mega Man characters - Bass, X and Zero. I did consider going with Vile Bass X0, but that would have been going too far.

@  repowers : (11 June 2021 - 11:29 PM)

Bass XO has been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty.

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Do not taunt Bass XO.

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Please consult a technician before using Bass XO. Do not operate Bass XO while consuming alcohol.

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Nine out of ten doctors recommend Bass XO. The last doctor is on my list.

@  Dekafox : (11 June 2021 - 01:51 PM)

Bass XO is available at these fine retailers.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (11 June 2021 - 02:01 AM)

Bass XO is not to be confused with Bay Sexo.

@  Fenix Twilight : (10 June 2021 - 08:38 PM)

It's good to be back, after that outage I think I'll try to post more.

@  Steevy Maximus : (10 June 2021 - 12:16 PM)

I think Hasbro Pulse is broken. Dang Star Wars nerds!

@  tigerhawk : (10 June 2021 - 04:46 AM)

When I googled 'space bridge' I was disappointed. Maybe in a hundred years.

@  ▲ndrusi : (09 June 2021 - 04:05 PM)

Bass XO is backward compatible with the Sega Master System.

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Bass XO has 9" long, dagger-like teeth and a 12,000 lb. bite force

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Bass XO doesn't feel pain. He can't be reasoned with!

@  TheMightyMol... : (08 June 2021 - 02:57 PM)

Bass XO has no known weaknesses.

@  Nevermore : (08 June 2021 - 06:15 AM)

Base XO is definitely unstoppable.

@  Donocropolis : (07 June 2021 - 04:30 PM)

What about magnets? No one knows how they work or what they can do.

@  Bass X0 : (07 June 2021 - 02:22 PM)

Yes Cybershark, and now no force in the universe can stop us.

@  Cybersnark : (07 June 2021 - 10:03 AM)

Aaaan we're back!

@  Telly : (06 June 2021 - 09:07 PM)

its alive! AAAALIIIIIIVEEEEEE! *maniacal laugh*

@  repowers : (06 June 2021 - 02:18 PM)

WHAT!!! ALLSPARK!!! you IN LIVE!!!!!!

@  Donocropolis : (06 June 2021 - 01:53 PM)

Indeed. I was missing it.

@  Shockwave 75 : (06 June 2021 - 11:35 AM)

So glad the boards are back!

@  Echowarrior : (06 June 2021 - 07:45 AM)

It's alive! Alive!


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Transformers: Beast Wars #3 Discussion


21 replies to this topic

#1 Maruten

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 03:32 AM

Unbeknownst to the Maximals, the Predacons have taken their first prisoner! As Megatron and Tarantulas run their interrogation, dissent stirs in the Predacon ranks. Who'll give first - the dissatisfied Dinobot or the captured Maximal? The Beast Wars rage on!


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#2 Wildwade

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 05:48 AM

"History barely remembers the original Megatron." says Nyx to the bloke who named himself after him.  After she took orders from a Great War vet in the first issue.

 

Hnn, there's a lot that doesn't work here.  Cheetor's worried about Nyx being out after dark, even though she's a bat.  Primal's NOT worried about Nyx being out there alone without means of communication on an unknown world because...um, that's good leadership?  Our new character Nyx is then tortured and used as a means for Dinobot to show how badass and honourable he is.  Where exactly does Dinobot GO from here now that he's on the outs with the Predacons and halfway a Maximal already?

 

I really want this to work but it really isn't.  I don't know if I'm going to last the twelve issues.



#3 Undead Scottsman

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 01:25 PM

Just because Dinobot betrayed Megatron doesn't mean the Maximals are going to welcome him with open arms. Nyx will likely vouch for him, but that doesn't mean the others are going to be keen on having a Predacon around. The interesting twist here is that Dinobot isn't good for a predacon, he's flat-out a good predacon.

Regarding Cheetor and Optimus, I'd wait for Nyx to get back before declaring that part of the story worthless. How is Optimus going to react when he realizes he made a bad call, and how are the others going to react to his rookie mistake nearly getting a team member killed? Is that going to put him on weaker footing for letting Dinobot join up?

And "history barely remembers the name Megatron" wasn't supposed to be factually accurate, it was supposed to piss off Megatron.

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#4 Salt-Man Z

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 10:06 AM

I think this issue fell kinda flat, but I still mostly enjoyed it? Like, none of the characters voices felt "right", but once Dinobot locked everyone in the Darksyde, it managed to feel like an actual episode. Or rather, half an episode, since very little actually happened. Nyx is tortured, Maximals discuss, Dinobot frees Nyx. This will probably read great in the trade, but as individual issues it's a bit underwhelming.

 

As an aside: I just finished my first proper readthrough of the first IDWverse--finishing up with the entirety of Lost Light--and going from Lawrence/Cahill/Milne/et al artwork to Burcham's almost broke my brain.


"Here is light. You will say that it is not a living entity, but you miss the point that it is more, not less. Without occupying space, it fills the universe. It nourishes everything, yet itself feeds upon destruction. We claim to control it, but does it not perhaps cultivate us as a source of food? May it not be that all wood grows so that it can be set ablaze, and that men and women are born to kindle fires?"
―Gene Wolfe, The Citadel of the Autarch

#5 Wildwade

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 11:40 AM

Just because Dinobot betrayed Megatron doesn't mean the Maximals are going to welcome him with open arms. Nyx will likely vouch for him, but that doesn't mean the others are going to be keen on having a Predacon around. The interesting twist here is that Dinobot isn't good for a predacon, he's flat-out a good predacon.

Regarding Cheetor and Optimus, I'd wait for Nyx to get back before declaring that part of the story worthless. How is Optimus going to react when he realizes he made a bad call, and how are the others going to react to his rookie mistake nearly getting a team member killed? Is that going to put him on weaker footing for letting Dinobot join up?

And "history barely remembers the name Megatron" wasn't supposed to be factually accurate, it was supposed to piss off Megatron.

To me, there's a lot of dissonance here in how the characters are portrayed versus how we expect them to act, and it's interfering with getting a solid grip on any of them.  The whole series is clinging to the borders of the cartoon so far, yet most of the characters really don't feel right,  I assume it's an conscious choice to portray Primal as an impulsive hands-off commander, Cheetor as a seemingly-responsible worrywart, and Dinobot as a Maximal in Predacon clothing instead of the other way around.  None of that is consistent with their classic portrayals, but some characters like Rattrap and Tarantulas are fairly the same.  It's rather baffling, to say the least, because the other option is that Burnham just didn't really understand those characters to begin with.

 

The Nyx line doesn't make any sense to me, because clearly history DOES remember Megatron if "Galavar" takes the name with pride and the Tripredacus Council act like he's putting on airs.  Maybe the Maximals sealed the files on the Decepticons like is mentioned in the show, but then why would Megatron be so offended by Nyx's apparent ignorance?  Just kind of makes Megatron look petty, not righteously in-dignified.


Edited by Wildwade, 08 April 2021 - 11:41 AM.


#6 Undead Scottsman

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 01:12 PM

Again, the Megatron comment was to anger Megatron by insinuating the person he went out of his way to name himself after isn't worthy of rememberence, and therefore Megatron is even less worthy of remeberance. As I mentioned, I seriously doubt it was intended as an accurate reflection of how much the original Megatron is or isn't remmebered. It's like Optimus calling Megatron "junk" and outdated in the G1 cartoon. It's an insult, not a factual statement.

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#7 CheeseSomersault

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 02:17 PM

Kind of funny how the primary criticisms of this comic are usually "it's boring because it sticks way too close to the show" alongside "it's too different because the characters don't act like they did in the show".

Obviously those two points don't HAVE TO be 100% contradictory. I guess someone could want to see the same characters in a different setting, rather than reimagined characters in a similar setting. But if that's the case, I don't see how the former is inherently better or more creative than the later.

I also don't buy that there's any chance that Burnham doesn't understand the archetypes of the show characters. I love Beast Wars, but the broad strokes of the characters are not that hard to get - Cheetor is the young hot head with something to prove, Dinobot is the honorable "bad guy", etc. There is no way Burnham doesn't get this, and the changes in characterization are almost certainly intentional.

Anyways, does anyone else get major Scorpia (from the latest She-Ra cartoon) vibes from Skold?

#8 Johnny Here

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:01 PM

Kind of funny how the primary criticisms of this comic are usually "it's boring because it sticks way too close to the show" alongside "it's too different because the characters don't act like they did in the show".

Obviously those two points don't HAVE TO be 100% contradictory. I guess someone could want to see the same characters in a different setting, rather than reimagined characters in a similar setting. But if that's the case, I don't see how the former is inherently better or more creative than the later.

I also don't buy that there's any chance that Burnham doesn't understand the archetypes of the show characters. I love Beast Wars, but the broad strokes of the characters are not that hard to get - Cheetor is the young hot head with something to prove, Dinobot is the honorable "bad guy", etc. There is no way Burnham doesn't get this, and the changes in characterization are almost certainly intentional.

Anyways, does anyone else get major Scorpia (from the latest She-Ra cartoon) vibes from Skold?


Because we're a few issues I'm, and these characters haven't done anything to show us who these new versions are.

It's one thing to do that with G1 characters, when there's so many of them, and there's already been multiple depictions.

It's a whole other thing to do that with Beast Wars, which was a smaller cast.

Right now, the Maximals haven't done much. Transformers IDW2 was a slow burn too, but I don't have as much faith in this writer as I do Ruckley.

If they started off with a bang, and showed us hey, here's this person's defining character trait, that would help.

I don't hate the comic, I enjoyed issue 2 a lot mor than the first, but like someone said, some characters being the same and others different is jarring.

#9 Magnusblitz

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:48 PM

Yeah, I think most of the characters fit with what we know. Some better than others (Megatron and Tarantulas fit stronger than Cheetor or Rhinox, for example). The only one who really feels 'off' to me is Optimus, who seems far too earnest and eager compared to the cartoon where he often seemed worn down by the stress of leadership and dealing with difficult underlings and clashing of personalities.

 

I think the problem is that by presenting something that is very similar to the cartoon, it naturally invites a higher level of comparison, and so little differences that would normally slide feel like a bigger detail, for better or worse. I think it can certainly be argued that this isn't quite "fair" but it's natural when sticking too close to the source material. If they were doing a completely different Beast Wars, say with characters like Razorbeast and Cybershark and Snapper and Iguanus, it doesn't happen.

 

More happened this issue, though things are still too decompressed for my liking. And what's happening is still pretty meh. Dinobot leaving the Predacons over someone being tortured is stronger than leaving because he challenged Megatron to a duel, but it's not that much more interesting, and we're still very much "in the middle of episode 1" feeling.


Edited by Magnusblitz, 08 April 2021 - 10:12 PM.


#10 ZakuConvoy

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 02:26 PM

I feel like a lot of the character changes are being done with a eye towards Beast Machines.  Rhinox is the most obvious example, with him being a little more stuffy and traditional eventually signalling his turn into Tankor.  Something similar could be the idea with Primal and Cheetor.  Primal "going with the flow" a bit more and being a little more loose and carefree could be to set up his turn as a hippie conduit for the Oracle.  Cheetor being a bit more of a worrywart could be setting up his eventual turn as the field leader of the team.

 

I suppose it makes sense, if the idea is to integrate these character changes more naturally.  I know a lot of people at the time complained that the changes in Beast Machines seemed a bit too abrupt.  I don't know if we're ever going to get to Beast Machines, but it's not a terrible idea, on paper, *if* that is indeed what they're trying to do.

 

But...yeah, this was episode 3 "The Web" only with Nyx instead of Cheetor.  It's nice to learn a *little* more about Skold's personality.  


Edited by ZakuConvoy, 09 April 2021 - 02:36 PM.


#11 Boomhauer

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Posted 17 April 2021 - 07:55 PM

I am fine with a different take on characters, but, like, "Dinobot is a good guy who somehow ended up in a team full of assholes" is inherently less interesting than him being an asshole who eventually becomes a decent person thru exposure to the other maximals. Not to mention it was pure bleh how the verbally tells us his philosophy mid-fight. Way too stuffy. Primal's argument was also weird, he does bring up that it could be dangerous to send anyone looking for Nyx but it feels like he doesn't stress enough that point.

 

The art is also still stiff. I actualy had trouble understanding some of the action due to the staging and shapes being so bleh. Not a fan of every character having such clean faces either. The way the artist stylizes some stuff like Tarantulas head and spider legs is neat but stuff like Dinobot lacking his goblin-ish features is just bland.



#12 Johnny Here

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Posted 19 April 2021 - 01:19 PM

I feel like a lot of the character changes are being done with a eye towards Beast Machines.  Rhinox is the most obvious example, with him being a little more stuffy and traditional eventually signalling his turn into Tankor.  Something similar could be the idea with Primal and Cheetor.  Primal "going with the flow" a bit more and being a little more loose and carefree could be to set up his turn as a hippie conduit for the Oracle.  Cheetor being a bit more of a worrywart could be setting up his eventual turn as the field leader of the team.
 
I suppose it makes sense, if the idea is to integrate these character changes more naturally.  I know a lot of people at the time complained that the changes in Beast Machines seemed a bit too abrupt.  I don't know if we're ever going to get to Beast Machines, but it's not a terrible idea, on paper, *if* that is indeed what they're trying to do.
 
But...yeah, this was episode 3 "The Web" only with Nyx instead of Cheetor.  It's nice to learn a *little* more about Skold's personality.  


I can see that, especially Rhinox

But 5he thing with Cheetor is him going at odds with Orimal was great because he developed from a reckless kid to a more responsible leader

#13 Fnu Aw

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Posted 19 April 2021 - 04:55 PM

I might be done. There comes a time to admit I'm trying way too hard to like something instead of actually liking it.

 

Every defense of this book comes down to "Well maybe they're going somewhere with that." At some point the book needs to show us that it is actually going somewhere with that. Right now it feels like it's trying to tread the same ground as the show but uniformly skipped several steps ahead on all the characters' journeys. Like the writer was just working off summaries or 20 year old memories of who the characters are with no context on how they got there.

 

Cartoon Dinobot is a Predacon with Predacon honor who joins Primal's crew as a Predacon, and he softens up so gradually that he hardly realizes it's happening until he's pretty far along. He didn't intend to defect. He intended to pull off a mutiny and got himself kicked out. He clearly believed in the cause and had some fondness for his teammates, but thought (quite understandably at the time) that Megatron screwed it up so badly that someone else needed to take over immediately.

 

Comic Dinobot is so good so quickly that it's hard to believe he joined this crew in the first place. It's hard to have confidence in where his story might be going when it already feels like something isn't right.


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#14 Shadewing

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Posted 19 April 2021 - 05:23 PM

I might be done. There comes a time to admit I'm trying way too hard to like something instead of actually liking it.

 

Every defense of this book comes down to "Well maybe they're going somewhere with that." At some point the book needs to show us that it is actually going somewhere with that. Right now it feels like it's trying to tread the same ground as the show but uniformly skipped several steps ahead on all the characters' journeys. Like the writer was just working off summaries or 20 year old memories of who the characters are with no context on how they got there.

 

Cartoon Dinobot is a Predacon with Predacon honor who joins Primal's crew as a Predacon, and he softens up so gradually that he hardly realizes it's happening until he's pretty far along. He didn't intend to defect. He intended to pull off a mutiny and got himself kicked out. He clearly believed in the cause and had some fondness for his teammates, but thought (quite understandably at the time) that Megatron screwed it up so badly that someone else needed to take over immediately.

 

Comic Dinobot is so good so quickly that it's hard to believe he joined this crew in the first place. It's hard to have confidence in where his story might be going when it already feels like something isn't right.

I agree mostly, but I can see 'Don't support torture' and wanting an 'honorable fight' as part of Cartoon Dinobot even near the start. Cartoon Dinobot wouldn't condone what happened to Nyx here at the end with the Transformation lock and not being able to fight back. But he also feels as other say too good and too pure, and this still feels like its trying to be both like the cartoon and not like the cartoon at the same damn time. This isn't 1:1 The Web, but its still pretty much The Web.


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#15 Undead Scottsman

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Posted 19 April 2021 - 06:48 PM

I'll need to see him interacting with the Maximals before I decide on whether or not they're doing well with Dinobot.

Like, ostenisbly, he's a good man who joined up with a less scrupulous revolutionary group for the betterment of his people, which will require there to actually be some kind of suffering on the part of the predacons to justify those actions.

He should still have friction with the Maximals, but ultimately side with them because Megatron is going too far, and there's no other authority or power to oppose him while stranded on NotEarth.

Whether or not they actually thread that needle is another story.

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#16 Fnu Aw

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 02:13 AM

Cartoon Dinobot wouldn't have liked this either but he was still a Predacon who wouldn't have liked this. He believed in the cause and had feelings for the crew and was willing to stick around with them as long as Megatron wasn't in charge anymore.

 

The difference is that in three issues we never saw the side of this Dinobot that ever believed in the cause or ever fit in with these guys. The entirety of his existence has been disagreeing with whatever another Predacon is saying at the moment.


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#17 Sabrblade

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 10:03 AM

"What are you doing? You'd won."
"You slipped. To defeat you in such a manner would be lacking in honor. I would not have earned the right to lead. I prefer to beat my opponents the old fashioned way—BRUTALLY!"
[The two resume fighting]
"For a Predacon, Dinobot, you have qualities I could like."
"And you, ahh, have proved to be a worthy adversary. I will have you recycled with full honors."
"Well, that's. Just. Prime!"
 
Bolded the important parts that this comic seems to be forgetting about Cartoon Dinobot.
 
Honorable or not, he was also a savage. Despite his insistence for fair combat, he was aiming to murder Optimus Primal and skewer his body for spare parts. He believed that Maximals used torture chambers. He was willing to execute the defeated, helpless Silverbolt in "Coming of the Fuzors", only sparing him when Cheetor and Rattrap stopped him, disgusted by their "defective" "Maximal sentiment". And he was even willing to go back to Megatron once his original error in planetfall was proven correct after all.
 
My only hope for this more "righteous Predacon" Dinobot is that he still doesn't immediately join the Maximals next issue, but rather first isolates himself as lone wolf unaligned with either faction, kinda like when Prime Starscream struck out on his own. And in the words of Prime Dreadwing (whose arc this Dinobot also echoes, but on fast-forward), "Betraying my kind is not the same as accepting yours." Let him choose to remain with no one for at least issue 4, ultimately joining the Maximals no earlier than either the very end of that issue or in 5 or 6, after some meaningful convincing (probably on Nyx's part, since he saved her). After all, even Cartoon Dinobot was willing to go it alone at the end of "Maximal, No More" if the Maximals wouldn't take him back after his betraying them: "If you will not have me, I will fight Megatron alone."

Edited by Sabrblade, 20 April 2021 - 11:16 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#18 Wildwade

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 11:10 AM

Dinobot also manipulated and treated Cheetor as utterly disposable in the fourth episode of the show, all to blow up his former comrades.



#19 Fnu Aw

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 04:57 PM

Cartoon Dinobot is introduced wanting to shoot down the Axalon, while Megatron doesn't want to do it just yet.

 

Comic Dinobot is now the one with the excuse why they can't shoot down the Axalon just yet.

 

It's a small thing but it means this Dinobot never got to show that he has teeth before deciding the Predacons were going too far here.


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#20 Shadewing

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 07:06 PM

Apparently not everyone agrees with us on Dinobot:

 

https://screenrant.c...bot-tarantulas/


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