42 replies to this topic

[Liege]

Im done with The Allspark. I hope you will read this and understand my reasoning in why I am leaving. I'm posting it in general despite the political connotations of my reasons for accessability.

I didnt want this to happen but the actions and tone of this place over the past year, starting with the Pete and Botcon debacle and culminating with the discussion of events happening in the US right now, I have to follow my conscience and disassociate from this place and the majority of fandom in general. This place, P&R in particular as of late, is not an anti-racist space and I can no longer take part in it without betraying my own values as well as my partners, my other black friends and their struggle.

I originally thought about leaving back after the Botcon incident. I think in hindsight, a lot of us should have. While I respect the mods who resigned in protest, some of the current staff have told me that there was a lot of behind-the-scenes issues that wont ever come to light but to trust in what theyre doing. That is a poor excuse to tell people who are going to invest money in a gathering of fans and who probably wouldnt if these issues were in the open and not just known to a select few. This is a diverse fandom: we have so many LGBTQ and POC fans. Transparency is a must for true trust to exist. However, I ignored my instinct and decided to stick around despite my discomfort with how that issue was handled and how a lot of criticism towards it was handled by some of the staff.

Coming to more recent events and the straw that broke the camels back for me. Long story short: P&R had a topic from a poster called Why I dont believe in reparations. The OP made no effort to counter arguments against his stance. Just uncreative trolling. Back in the day this topic wouldve been shut down with a big NOPE. Instead it took a couple of days and me getting into an argument with the guy to train wreck the thread and get it closed. There are other threads where people are actively calling the protesters thugs and trash. To those of you doing that I say this: You dont have the right to delegitimize the way people protest. If you dont agree with it, invest that energy you were going to waste shouting at them doing something helpful for the people that need it instead. Traditionally, we have always been a more liberally minded board than some of our counterparts (as far as I can tell, there is no hugnotheallspark.tumblr.com unlike with TFW2005). I dont think we are that space anymore and it pains me. Perhaps we never were and Ive only just opened my eyes to that.

My big point is this (if you read nothing else here, please read this):

A number of people in toy orientated fandoms like Transformers, Star Wars, MOTU, GI Joe and every single other action figure line seem to miss the point these toys teach us as children: you fight the villains, the cowards and the bullies in life and you stand up for those who need help or who needs someone to stand up alongside them. Im sure some critics will say that life isnt black and white and thats a somewhat childish view to take: that politics has no place in fandom. I vehemently disagree. It is that simple when it comes to human decency and compassion, and the lessons we learn from those properties are inherently political. If you're an adult who collects toys yet your politics and beliefs are more in line with the villains of your childhood or you choose to remain neutral and inactive, you have utterly failed as a human being.

Its not enough to be a non-racist anymore. Silence on racial issues is compliance with systemic racism and it is harmful. You have to be actively anti-racist. We dont have to agree on everything but we must agree on that.

This is a difficult decision for me. I have been a member here for 16 years and lurked for years before that. This place has meant a lot to me. I contributed money to the servers a few times over the years and I still cherish my Coffee Kup to this day. The Allspark was here for me while I was isolated after my immigration and while I didnt publicize it, it was of great comfort to me during my divorce. Am I a prolific member of this place? No. I may never have stood out to some of you and Im fine with that. Some of you may be sad at my leaving and some of you may say good riddance. I know some of you are right there with me in these feelings about our society and the spaces we occupy both in real life and online such as this one. I advise you to question your involvement here as I have done.

I will stick around for another day or two to monitor any responses this last topic of mine may get. If any of you I have become friendly with over the years wish to have a way to contact me once Ive closed out my account, just msg me.

[Dake]

You definitely need to do what you need to do for your own personal sanity.

 

Personally, I think you may be putting way too much on the shoulders of a toy forum. While we absolutely can't be silent in real life when facing the kind of crap that's going on right now, this place, or any random webforum will likely not change anyone's opinion on anything.

 

But take care and be safe.

Edited by Dake, 01 June 2020 - 07:53 PM.

[Cabooceratops]

Well said Liege, and right now I think it's worth considering going from simple resignation to just up and leaving. I don't need the Allspark to keep up with my Mayhem family, and I've fostered safe fandom spaces elsewhere. I'm attached to this place by a lot of sentiment, but I dunno how much that's worth or if that's a healthy reason.

 

But either way, stay safe Liege.

[Fnu Aw]

I'm sorry to hear it. Take whatever time you need. If sometime down the line you feel things are different, the door will always be open.

[MrBlud]

I don't know if you remember but we met at one of the Botcons. I want to say the second to last one but I'm not 100%. It was me you and I think Onyx Prime in a restaurant.

 

You came across as a really good guy and I greatly enjoyed our conversation.

 

I wish you the best in your travels and as has been said you'll always be welcome back.

Edited by MrBlud, 01 June 2020 - 10:07 PM.

[Thundercracker Prime]

Im done with The Allspark. I hope you will read this and understand my reasoning in why I am leaving. I'm posting it in general despite the political connotations of my reasons for accessability.

I didnt want this to happen but the actions and tone of this place over the past year, starting with the Pete and Botcon debacle and culminating with the discussion of events happening in the US right now, I have to follow my conscience and disassociate from this place and the majority of fandom in general. This place, P&R in particular as of late, is not an anti-racist space and I can no longer take part in it without betraying my own values as well as my partners, my other black friends and their struggle.

I originally thought about leaving back after the Botcon incident. I think in hindsight, a lot of us should have. While I respect the mods who resigned in protest, some of the current staff have told me that there was a lot of behind-the-scenes issues that wont ever come to light but to trust in what theyre doing. That is a poor excuse to tell people who are going to invest money in a gathering of fans and who probably wouldnt if these issues were in the open and not just known to a select few. This is a diverse fandom: we have so many LGBTQ and POC fans. Transparency is a must for true trust to exist. However, I ignored my instinct and decided to stick around despite my discomfort with how that issue was handled and how a lot of criticism towards it was handled by some of the staff.

Coming to more recent events and the straw that broke the camels back for me. Long story short: P&R had a topic from a poster called Why I dont believe in reparations. The OP made no effort to counter arguments against his stance. Just uncreative trolling. Back in the day this topic wouldve been shut down with a big NOPE. Instead it took a couple of days and me getting into an argument with the guy to train wreck the thread and get it closed. There are other threads where people are actively calling the protesters thugs and trash. To those of you doing that I say this: You dont have the right to delegitimize the way people protest. If you dont agree with it, invest that energy you were going to waste shouting at them doing something helpful for the people that need it instead. Traditionally, we have always been a more liberally minded board than some of our counterparts (as far as I can tell, there is no hugnotheallspark.tumblr.com unlike with TFW2005). I dont think we are that space anymore and it pains me. Perhaps we never were and Ive only just opened my eyes to that.

My big point is this (if you read nothing else here, please read this):

A number of people in toy orientated fandoms like Transformers, Star Wars, MOTU, GI Joe and every single other action figure line seem to miss the point these toys teach us as children: you fight the villains, the cowards and the bullies in life and you stand up for those who need help or who needs someone to stand up alongside them. Im sure some critics will say that life isnt black and white and thats a somewhat childish view to take: that politics has no place in fandom. I vehemently disagree. It is that simple when it comes to human decency and compassion, and the lessons we learn from those properties are inherently political. If you're an adult who collects toys yet your politics and beliefs are more in line with the villains of your childhood or you choose to remain neutral and inactive, you have utterly failed as a human being.

Its not enough to be a non-racist anymore. Silence on racial issues is compliance with systemic racism and it is harmful. You have to be actively anti-racist. We dont have to agree on everything but we must agree on that.

This is a difficult decision for me. I have been a member here for 16 years and lurked for years before that. This place has meant a lot to me. I contributed money to the servers a few times over the years and I still cherish my Coffee Kup to this day. The Allspark was here for me while I was isolated after my immigration and while I didnt publicize it, it was of great comfort to me during my divorce. Am I a prolific member of this place? No. I may never have stood out to some of you and Im fine with that. Some of you may be sad at my leaving and some of you may say good riddance. I know some of you are right there with me in these feelings about our society and the spaces we occupy both in real life and online such as this one. I advise you to question your involvement here as I have done.

I will stick around for another day or two to monitor any responses this last topic of mine may get. If any of you I have become friendly with over the years wish to have a way to contact me once Ive closed out my account, just msg me.

For the record, Liege, you did nothing but troll and insult me on my thread.

[Copper Bezel]

Thundercracker Prime, the thread was locked for a reason, and no one is asking you to start anything back up here. I hope you can understand that this thread is a bit more important to Liege than whatever grievance you have. Please show a little respect and stay out of it.

[Cybersnark]

What others have said, take care, Liege. We'll miss you.

You have to take care of yourself first, but we'll always be here if you want to drop in briefly.

[Kalidor]

With all that's going on right now, where people are literally dying and being murdered by police in broad daylight, everyone I know is both angry and heartbroken.

This country is in shambles right now and I sure don't know what to do about it. The Allspark is and always has been the most progressive community about toys you'll ever see. But for fuck sakes, this place is also supposed to be a refuge from the horrors of day to day life. Whether it be the pandemic that has cost us thousands lives or seeing people of color killed over and over again.

Yes it affects us all but Jesus christ.. To compare what's happening in the world with some guy's shitty opinions is absurd.

To imply that this community is racist because we're not "anti-racist" is absurd.

What exactly is it you would have this site do? I'm really asking.

But don't mistake us not leading protests as some sort of apathy. As individuals we all have a part we can play and I believe we should. If you can, protest. If you can, vote for change.

I wish I had solutions to solve problems as old as this country but I don't.

[Kalidor]

The fact people actually care that you're leaving should say something about this community. If you posted this in most Facebook groups you'd just get spammed with troll "well... Bye" and "This isn't the airport..." memes.

[MEDdMI]

This is why I can't go into P&R. I peeked a little way back when. I still remember some of the threads and conversations there where I simply cannot wrap my head around how some people can think that way. I end up digging myself deeper and deeper into panicking, feeling useless, cowardly, hopeless when thinking about such things, never mind trying to argue.

In any case, I don't know you but respect your choice. Stay strong and stay safe.

[Rust]

As others have said, do what you need to do for your own personal sanity. This is a dark, terrible time and sometimes you've got to prioritize your own engagement level. You and I have never interacted much, but I will say I'll miss your insight and perspective. But again - do what you need to do for you. In time, if you want, you can poke your head back in and say hello. The door's always open.

 

Stay safe and be well.

[Liege]

With all that's going on right now, where people are literally dying and being murdered by police in broad daylight, everyone I know is both angry and heartbroken.
This country is in shambles right now and I sure don't know what to do about it. The Allspark is and always has been the most progressive community about toys you'll ever see. But for hug sakes, this place is also supposed to be a refuge from the horrors of day to day life. Whether it be the pandemic that has cost us thousands lives or seeing people of color killed over and over again.
Yes it affects us all but Jesus christ.. To compare what's happening in the world with some guy's shitty opinions is absurd.
To imply that this community is racist because we're not "anti-racist" is absurd.
What exactly is it you would have this site do? I'm really asking.
But don't mistake us not leading protests as some sort of apathy. As individuals we all have a part we can play and I believe we should. If you can, protest. If you can, vote for change.
I wish I had solutions to solve problems as old as this country but I don't.

Kal, you're not hearing me. The community is not racist and there are some good people here but it's not what it once was. Just because we're more progressive than TFw2005 and Seibertron doesn't mean we're perfect. We can do more. It's not just enough to be non-racist anymore and seeing that some people here aren't getting that has lead me to feel I can't participate here in good faith.

And in all honesty my faith in this place and by extension you was really shaken by the Pete incident. I know you need money to keep things running but something broke that day and I haven't felt right about this place since. I wish you well and I thank you for the good memories I will carry of this place.

Also TC Prime: I gave you a well argued rebuttal and your only response was to call me a racist. My original comment only said for you to educate yourself otherwise you would have to remove the thunder from your name, a fun bit of word play which triggered you and makes me feel somewhat sorry for you as it seems you've lived in an echo chamber until now, unable to deal with people criticizing your insulated viewpoints. I never flat out called you that insult until you went fully on the attack against me. I don't apologize for what I said to you and I think you have a lot of growing up to do. that said, I wish you success in that journey of growth and education.

[Kalidor]

If you can somehow conflate opting to host a discord channel for a toy convention and unarmed black men and women being murdered by police I'm not sure I *can* reason with that. To be honest, I find the comparison rather distasteful.

[fourteenwings]

1. If this is a place where you have friends that you like, respect and appreciate, then you are abandoning them for ideals. If this is a place you came to genuinely discuss giant robots and other such things, then you are abandoning what you love for ideals.
2. I never considered this place all that progressive. I mean, like most of the polite internet, it marches to the progressive drum of course, which means I frequently run into political opinions that I don't share. But I confront those where I deem it necessary, or just give up and go about my day.
3. Hasbro will never be as progressive as you want. They're a kids toy company first and foremost, and children aren't too concerned with such things. One day, you will find that your ideals are so far from Hasbro's that you will need to either accept it and reconcile, or give up. This is Allspark Exodus merely a preview.
4. If you believe P&R is no longer a place where you can discuss politics the way you want, then stop going in there. However, you have to acknowledge that the only place anybody will ever find that politics is discussed in the way they want is an echo chamber.
5. If you quit every place where people don't agree with you, and only focus on those where they do, you run the risk of one day putting yourself in a position where you say something and nobody defends you, because nobody dissents. I'm not saying this will happen, but it's a real possibility.

I genuinely currently have friends who, when they expressed certain political positions to me, I abhorred those positions. I still do. However, I still hold those friends dear, because fighting over politics is dumb.

 

At the end of the day, large-scale politics is just how we organize our government, and most governments can't solve it's way out of most paper bag sized problems. You have to deal with your own stuff, and holding your friends close is part of that. That is, unless they're genuinely bad people.

 

Again, disagreeing with you politically does not make them bad people.

 

As for the rest of you; I understand you wanting the best for our friend acquaintance, but don't you think encouraging or at least kindly condoning people leaving will have a terrible knock on effect for the forum going forward? I get the genuine feeling that this place is an institution. It's been here long before I knew it existed, and after the many cherished days I've spent here I'd like it to be here long after I'm gone (yes, I do indeed mean "dead"). The fact that nobody is defending it is a bit much.

Edited by fourteenwings, 02 June 2020 - 12:48 AM.

[MrBlud]

Hasbro will never be as progressive as you want. They're a kids toy company first and foremost, and children aren't too concerned with such things. One day, you will find that your ideals are so far from Hasbro's that you will need to either accept it and reconcile, or give up. This is Allspark Exodus merely a preview.

 

Black children are pretty concerned with being able to grow up.

Edited by MrBlud, 02 June 2020 - 01:15 AM.

[Fnu Aw]

anymore

I want to zero in on that word. Anymore. There's a built in concession there that maybe this place hasn't really changed, but what we're doing isn't enough anymore. Or maybe we have changed. Or both. It could be. But I think that anymore is the real key here.

 

We probably have changed. Everyone and everything is changing these days. We're living in a time when many of us are realizing we have responsibilities we didn't know we had. We're learning that the roles we play have obligations we didn't know we signed up for. Certain things aren't enough anymore. Nobody's supposed to be a bystander anymore. We've all got mountains on our shoulders now, and we're all at our own stages of figuring it all out. There's going to be people who aren't as far along as you yet. You might not be as far along as you think you are.

 

This is also a toy board. It's supposed to be an escape from a lot of that. Sometimes we just want to forget everything and just be kids again and play with our toys. It's what brought us here in the first place.

 

These are not perfectly compatible pressures we're trying to juggle here. If we don't reach a decision you want, or we do reach a decision you want but don't reach it as quickly as you'd like us to, it's because we're neither checking a handy guidebook of one size fits all decisions nor throwing darts at a board. We take time because we're trying, man. We're really trying.

[Rust]

 

As for the rest of you; I understand you wanting the best for our friend acquaintance, but don't you think encouraging or at least kindly condoning people leaving will have a terrible knock on effect for the forum going forward? I get the genuine feeling that this place is an institution. It's been here long before I knew it existed, and after the many cherished days I've spent here I'd like it to be here long after I'm gone (yes, I do indeed mean "dead"). The fact that nobody is defending it is a bit much.

 

If a person doesn't feel comfortable, why try to guilt/force them into staying? Being perfectly honest here, we're a relic of a bygone era of the Internet as it is. Forums are kind of a institution, but they generally aren't the forefront of communication that they used to be and none of us are getting any younger. Obviously continuing to have traffic to the forums is a big draw to the overall health of the site as a whole, but I dare say behaving like those who post here have an obligation to continue posting is the wrong move.

 

I've been here for 16 years. I've seen more people leave then stay. I've also pretty much retreated to the subforum that Liege is stating is his biggest deciding factor for leaving. I'm sorry he feels the way he does about it, but especially in regards to politics and religion a person who isn't comfortable ought not be shoved down in a chair and forced to participate in an enviornment they do not feel comfortable in.

Edited by Rust, 02 June 2020 - 01:35 AM.

[Pale Rider]

Is there somewhere else I can read about this "Botcon incident" without pulling a Venkman and derailing this thread?  It would provide some much-needed context for those of us not in the know.

Edited by Pale Rider, 02 June 2020 - 02:23 AM.

[Rust]

Here and a follow up here.