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@  Sabrblade : (23 October 2018 - 11:27 AM)

One could argue that Optimus Prime has, in recent years, been performed less like a person and more like a computer. :p

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 11:23 AM)

The beautiful thing about the franchise is that it's big enough to endure. You can walk away for a while and come back later to see if you like whats new.

@  EShadowP : (23 October 2018 - 11:06 AM)

But that's one of my many reasons to be tremendously bored with the state of TF fiction. (Others include: hey, let's have the Transformers actually transform sometimes.)

@  EShadowP : (23 October 2018 - 11:04 AM)

I'm saying, there are levels. The closest anyone comes is (occasionally) allowing Shockwave to be an actual robot. I would love to see a story where the only reason they've been fighting this long is because they are computers. Once a level of humanity is introduced, they actually stop fighting (only to have the inevitability of back-sliding into fighting again because of that same humanity.)

@  EShadowP : (23 October 2018 - 11:00 AM)

I entirely understand the necessity of some level of anthropomorphism. However, essentially turning them all into really tall metallic humans is not only entirely without purpose, it's boring as heck.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 10:54 AM)

But machine life has to be anthropomorphized, otherwise we don't see the life, just the machine.

@  EShadowP : (23 October 2018 - 10:04 AM)

Maybe we just need writers with better imaginations. Perhaps over-humanizing the Transformers is the longest running problem with every TF fiction ever. Just perhaps.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 09:33 AM)

Yeah, but they are machines. Couldn't they just adjust their own memories for the lifespan? Do we even know how they store memories in the first place?

@  Otaku : (23 October 2018 - 09:12 AM)

Now, I'm not saying that Cybertronians ought to have human life-spans, just that "millions of years" is too long.  Though I suppose it makes the "Oh, I suddenly remembered [plot point]!" moments credible because where do you store all the memories in an easily accessed form?  If you do remember even most things clearly... might that not be maddening?

@  Otaku : (23 October 2018 - 09:09 AM)

The "millions of years old" thing is probably the most alien aspect of Cybertronians.  It pushes my suspension of disbelief for anything remotely human to live that long and still be sane, or maybe even functional.  I think of how aging has affected my own view and sure, some of it is biological maturation, but a lot of it is experience.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 07:11 AM)

But they don't really have a childhood either. They go online and all maturation is literally job experience.

@  Shrug : (23 October 2018 - 06:47 AM)

Well, they're practically immortal. That kind of lifespan doesn't exactly push growing up.

@  TheMightyMol... : (23 October 2018 - 04:00 AM)

They can't handle physical scale, did you think temporal scale would fare any better?

@  Pennpenn : (23 October 2018 - 03:44 AM)

Maybe it's that they're functionally intelligent, but don't ever really mature much psychologically. That and presumably the original writers gave as much of a shit about deep time as they did about space geometry.

@  Whirl Maximus : (23 October 2018 - 02:03 AM)

I'm mixed about the millions of years thing, it's somewhat at odds when transformers are humanized as they often are.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 October 2018 - 11:59 PM)

Are any of the Transformers terribly bright, really? This is a spacefaring civilization that's millions of years old that seem to be fighting a perpetual war for no particular reason. Transformers are stupider than humans

@  wonko the sane? : (22 October 2018 - 08:31 PM)

Depends on the machine. Are you recruiting them, or MAKING them?

@  Cybersnark : (22 October 2018 - 08:30 PM)

... And not terribly bright.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 October 2018 - 07:51 PM)

Makes sense for robot soldiers: you would want something fast, low profile, but lots of power.

@  Waspinator : (22 October 2018 - 06:31 PM)

If we go by the Prime cartoon, sports cars apparently ARE the expendable troop of choice.

@  TheMightyMol... : (22 October 2018 - 04:29 PM)

Just fold 'em into a box and slap some wheels on it, they'll figure it out.

@  Pennpenn : (22 October 2018 - 01:57 AM)

Given that by the time we're up to in the story Functionalism had been dead for millions of years and many of the people around were made during and for the war, it's probably more likely that "sports car shaped thing" was an easy to make alt mode for expendable troops.

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 09:52 PM)

maybe there's underground demolition derbies too

@  Locoman : (21 October 2018 - 09:25 PM)

Every single sports car was one of those two jobs? Considering how many there seem to be....

@  RichardT1977 : (21 October 2018 - 07:34 PM)

Athletic Entertainment

@  TheMightyMol... : (21 October 2018 - 03:32 PM)

It's mentioned in one issue that Bumblebee was a courier. The only other fast cars I can remember seeing in Functionist times were Blur and a couple of Stunticons, as racers.

@  SG Roadbuster : (21 October 2018 - 12:14 PM)

i figured the sports cars were either racers or couriers.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 12:13 PM)

Upper Class. They're clearly not made for manual labor.

@  Locoman : (21 October 2018 - 12:09 PM)

Functionism only really makes sense for certain alternate modes like mining or construction equipment; where do things like sports cars fit in?

@  Xellos : (21 October 2018 - 11:51 AM)

At least in the movies they can switch to a (similar) alt mode at will, it seems. Especially if they want to sell more toys per movie.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 October 2018 - 10:44 AM)

They are a race of adaptive machines. Maybe they were expected to change themselves to fit the role?

@  RichardT1977 : (21 October 2018 - 10:06 AM)

IDW-verse discrimination still made more sense than the backstory in TF: Exodus, where everyone's caste was assigned seemingly at random with no regard for their aptitudes (altmode or otherwise)

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 07:55 AM)

Lost Light is good too, so far.

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 07:54 AM)

I'm not terribly into Transformers in general, but I did mostly enjoy the More Than Meets The Eye series.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 05:11 AM)

Which has been in the state constitution since 1946, but was never actually executed according to documents, and is currently not in effect because the German federal constitution, which takes priority over state constitution, has banned the death penalty back in 1949.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 05:09 AM)

Huh. So next weekend, when the German state of Hesse will have its state election, there will also be a ballot about changing the state constitution... and one of the proposed changes will be abolishing the death penalty.

@  Waspinator : (21 October 2018 - 03:44 AM)

I really need to read those comics

@  Pennpenn : (21 October 2018 - 03:28 AM)

Up to and including the fact that certain alternate modes could end up being classified as "surplus to requirements" and systematically murdered.

@  Pennpenn : (21 October 2018 - 03:26 AM)

And in IDW comics where it is/was literally a form of apartheid where your alternate mode pretty much dictated how you were treated by society, what jobs you could pursue, pretty much everything.

@  Waspinator : (21 October 2018 - 02:24 AM)

We do get hints of that from time to time in Transformers, with stuff like some jets acting smug towards cars and whatnot.

@  RichardT1977 : (20 October 2018 - 08:10 PM)

"No shotgun of Mine is going to marry a rocket launcher" sounds like something that Targetmasters (or WFC Siege Micromasters) might say...

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 08:06 PM)

The characters are actually kinda nice. Sure a bunch of them are from New Jersey, but you get a few aliens too.. But if you do that, you might want to go digital delux verisons.

@  Xellos : (20 October 2018 - 06:38 PM)

My only issue is that the aside from Fox, the looks of the characters are kinda bland. If anything, I'll at least get it on Black Friday, as they almost always have deals on the toys to life stuff.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 06:07 PM)

Well I can tell you, if you are going physical version because you want the toys. The Switch version has the best Ship mount as you just slide the joycons into it. The PS4 ship mount is wired. The game itself is very good in my opionion. In some ways it starts to turn into an RTS without being an RTS. You've got to start focus on keeping your planets from being taken back over. It has a LOT to do. It does have some repitive missions, because well, trying to let you level up all pilots and ships and such. The switch version -ALSO- has starfox only missions and the characters are incorporated into the story.

@  Xellos : (20 October 2018 - 06:03 PM)

How is Starlink anyways? Been thinking of getting the Switch version for StarFox, which is quite unusal for me, as I almost always pick the PS4 versions (favorite controller and I already have so many Trophys on it).

@  Waspinator : (20 October 2018 - 05:42 PM)

No shotgun of mine is going to marry a rocket launcher!

@  TheMightyMol... : (20 October 2018 - 05:22 PM)

Should they be allowed to marry outside of their own caliber?

@  Waspinator : (20 October 2018 - 05:18 PM)

I'm conflicted on the subject of marriage rights for shotguns.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 03:24 PM)

You say, "Damn it, what do you think this is, a shotgun wedding?"

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 03:23 PM)

What do you do if someone wants to bring their concealed-carry to your American wedding?


Photo

Some GI Joe fans are a little ticked-off...


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95 replies to this topic

#1 MightyMegs

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 06:31 PM

Message from Brian Savage

#2 MrBlud

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 06:39 PM

I'm unaware if any of them expressed sympathy that OUR Con was bumped for the past two years.

Besides, it's probably only for next year.

Edited by MrBlud, 11 October 2006 - 06:40 PM.

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#3 (Deactivated) thoughtcrime

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 06:42 PM

Joe fans get pissed off at the drop of a hat. I like Joes as much as the next 80s guy, but I just can't handle that fandom.

#4 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 06:59 PM

At least it seems the Brian is trying to be fair. (He didn't promise that things would be "back to normal" next year for the Joe con, notice.) This is simply an unfortunate side-effect of trying to do two conventions for such very different fanbases.

Like I've said repeatedly, if we ever hope to see Summer BotCons again, we need to grab this opportunity to prove that it makes a difference to this fanbase. (And, perhaps just as importantly, that it makes a bigger difference to us to have it in the summer than it does to the Joe folks)

Seriously, one group is going to HAVE to be put out each year. I just hope that it isn't always us. (Barring 2007, of course)

#5 Devcon

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 07:17 PM

All things considered, the sensible thing would be to alternate. One year, have one con in the summer and the other in the fall, switch the next, wash-rince-repeat.
Stand back, I gotta practice my stabbin'. HA-HAAAA!

#6 MrBlud

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 07:24 PM

QUOTE
Seriously, one group is going to HAVE to be put out each year. I just hope that it isn't always us. (Barring 2007, of course)


Couldn't FP hire enough people to put on two Cons at the same time? icon-depth.gif

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#7 xZAOx

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 07:44 PM

QUOTE(MrBlud @ Oct 11 2006, 07:24 PM) View Post

QUOTE
Seriously, one group is going to HAVE to be put out each year. I just hope that it isn't always us. (Barring 2007, of course)


Couldn't FP hire enough people to put on two Cons at the same time? icon-depth.gif


I get the feeling it's not about just that. It's more about Transformers having the limelight during the summer. If they have them at the same time, they'll have to compete with each other.

Plus, lots of people like both. They dont' want them too close, therefore causing some fans to "pick and choose", or to get frustrated with trying to go to two cons near the same time.

#8 GEN1FAN

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 08:10 PM

When I talked to Brain at Botcon, And thought some e-mail he would love to have the Both cons in the same location at the same time. The problem would be Man-power, and make sure the toy for each con were done on time. We may see in the next few years the dates for joe con , and Botcon maybe just a few weekends apart. If the can get that worked out then just maybe They will try to have both Cons in the same Location at the same place. The biggest problem work be deal space. You would want to make sure that you have a 50 / 50 split on dealer for each con, Or change the rules on what the dealer can have at their booth. It would be great if they could have 1 giant dealers room. Or have transformer dealers in 1 large room , and all the Joe dealer be in another large room.

If both con were in the same location the same year I know I would sell more of my joe parts and toys then what I did at this years Botcon. Plus I'm sure that I would drop double or triple what I did at this year's Botcon. Well hopefully I make E-6 and get paid shortly after the 1st of the year.

#9 TrnsfrmGod

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 08:19 PM

From the Joe board:
QUOTE
Personally? This pisses me off. I'm part of the G.I. Joe Fan Club. I don't give a flying rat's arse what happens with Transformers. I signed up so I could be involved with all things Joe... I don't care how that relates to Transformers. That is just one more lame excuse, after getting one told to the folks at the Con.


If you reverse "Transformers" and "Joe" in that quote, it sounds remarkably like some utterances from last year icon-fire.gif

#10 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 09:07 PM

QUOTE(TrnsfrmGod @ Oct 11 2006, 09:19 PM) View Post

From the Joe board:
QUOTE
Personally? This pisses me off. I'm part of the G.I. Joe Fan Club. I don't give a flying rat's arse what happens with Transformers. I signed up so I could be involved with all things Joe... I don't care how that relates to Transformers. That is just one more lame excuse, after getting one told to the folks at the Con.


If you reverse "Transformers" and "Joe" in that quote, it sounds remarkably like some utterances from last year icon-fire.gif

I noticed that, too. Apparently, Joe fans and TF fans aren't so different after all. icon-arcee.gif

QUOTE(GEN1FAN @ Oct 11 2006, 09:10 PM)
When I talked to Brain at Botcon, And thought some e-mail he would love to have the Both cons in the same location at the same time. The problem would be Man-power, and make sure the toy for each con were done on time. We may see in the next few years the dates for joe con , and Botcon maybe just a few weekends apart. If the can get that worked out then just maybe They will try to have both Cons in the same Location at the same place. The biggest problem work be deal space. You would want to make sure that you have a 50 / 50 split on dealer for each con, Or change the rules on what the dealer can have at their booth. It would be great if they could have 1 giant dealers room. Or have transformer dealers in 1 large room , and all the Joe dealer be in another large room.

If both con were in the same location the same year I know I would sell more of my joe parts and toys then what I did at this years Botcon. Plus I'm sure that I would drop double or triple what I did at this year's Botcon. Well hopefully I make E-6 and get paid shortly after the 1st of the year.
I've been under the impression since near the beginning that Brian would very much love to do both conventions at the same time. Perhaps I'd feel the same if I were him, but it's not an idea I personally care much for at all.

However, given the choice between a fall time that I'll likely seldom be able to make it to (I really stretched it to go this year), and a summer date that includes Joe folks.... Well, let's just say that a combined convention isn't the worst possibility.

#11 (Deactivated) Morningstar

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 09:13 PM

Now I remember why I never signed up at any joe forums..





#12 (Deactivated) Moonscream

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 09:15 PM

QUOTE
Personally? This pisses me off. I'm part of the G.I. Joe Fan Club. I don't give a flying rat's arse what happens with Transformers. I signed up so I could be involved with all things Joe... I don't care how that relates to Transformers. That is just one more lame excuse, after getting one told to the folks at the Con.


If you reverse "Transformers" and "Joe" in that quote, it sounds remarkably like some utterances from last year icon-fire.gif
And I find it personally funny that the guy goes by 'Smokescreen'. icon-fire.gif

Dumb question...if they 'get pissed off at the drop of a hat'...how do the fans act at cons? Do they act at least as well as TF fans do?

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#13 Chaotic Descent

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 09:16 PM

QUOTE(TrnsfrmGod @ Oct 11 2006, 09:19 PM) View Post

From the Joe board:
QUOTE
Personally? This pisses me off. I'm part of the G.I. Joe Fan Club. I don't give a flying rat's arse what happens with Transformers. I signed up so I could be involved with all things Joe... I don't care how that relates to Transformers. That is just one more lame excuse, after getting one told to the folks at the Con.


If you reverse "Transformers" and "Joe" in that quote, it sounds remarkably like some utterances from last year icon-fire.gif

just because both sides make stupid arguments doesn't mean one side might be more entitled to something.
what's the reasoning behind the time of year for the Joe con? for TF fans, the argument was based around school. there are a lot more kids in the TF fandom, that can't skip school to attend. there was also something about people employed at schools being in an even less-flexible situation. (they can't skip school) although I wonder how many more school professionals there are in the TF fandom than the Joe fandom...
I have a feeling though that BotCon 2006 will be hard to compare against BotCon 2007, since we had SO MANY attendees, although perhaps a summer con will show higher PREREGISTRATIONS than walk-in registrations.

#14 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE(RavageX-9 @ Oct 11 2006, 10:16 PM) View Post

I have a feeling though that BotCon 2006 will be hard to compare against BotCon 2007, since we had SO MANY attendees, although perhaps a summer con will show higher PREREGISTRATIONS than walk-in registrations.

That in itself would send a strong message. FP makes lots more money off of preregistrations than they do off of walk-ins.

#15 (Deactivated) Morningstar

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 09:25 PM

Isn't that cuase Pre-registrations cost hundreds of dollers and require a membership in the fanclub?





#16 TrnsfrmGod

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 10:03 PM

QUOTE(Morningstar @ Oct 11 2006, 10:25 PM) View Post

Isn't that cuase Pre-registrations cost hundreds of dollers and require a membership in the fanclub?


To pre-reg, one doesn't necessarily need to be a club member, it just costs a little less to pre-register if you are a member (it's a difference of $40 -$50). And the price itsself depends on which pre-reg package you take.

There's one for everything (five-figure boxed set w/ a certificate of authenticity, tech specs and convention pin, the opportunity to buy a bagged set, convention name badge, convention program with comic, admittance to the sales room including the Private Sales Room Experience on Friday and Early Bird privileges on Saturday, admittance to the Awards Party, admittance to all convention panels/seminars, $50 in gaming coupons for Awards Party and Casino night and an extra exclusive figure) Cost for registration is $299 for non-members, or $249 for club members

Then there's the reduced set (convention pin, name badge, convention program with comic, admittance to the sales room including the private preview) Cost is $159 for non-members or $114 for club members

#17 The Jawa

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE
I have a feeling though that BotCon 2006 will be hard to compare against BotCon 2007, since we had SO MANY attendees, although perhaps a summer con will show higher PREREGISTRATIONS than walk-in registrations.


I wager a higher amount of pre-regs will be due to the location, the "perks" (like touring the Hasbro plant) the time... and oh, the teeny itsy bitsy fact the movie is within a week or two of the con. icon-fire.gif

Note that teeny weeny itsy bitsy fact (yanno that movie thing)... you can't really base things on an "Ultra-uber-yehaw-yippee-doo-joygasm icon-silverbolt.gif icon-silverbolt.gif icon-silverbolt.gif " event, to judge which season is "best" I'm afraid.

Hell, my Dad (who doesn't even like TF's in the geek-glee manner I do) might even Pre-reg. Just because it's "special"

Edited by Waspinator's Muse, 11 October 2006 - 10:12 PM.

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#18 (Deactivated) Morningstar

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 10:16 PM

yup, Sticking to walk in. I just don't care enough about it to pay the same amount that my train tickets gonna cost to go to a TF con..



And the reason why its 40-50 dollers cheaper for club members is becuase... They don't have to re-up their membership.. They are allready members.. Correct?


See to me.. 9 bucks to get in is a suitable expenditure.. 159, or 299 isn't. Especially when I don't want to be a member of the fanclub. so that is the same as tossing 50 bucks down the toilet..

five-figure boxed set [w/ a certificate of authenticity, tech specs and convention pin] = Crap
the opportunity to buy a bagged set.. Why would I need an extra set?
convention name badge... Uhh.. I thought most conventions gave you a lanyard regardless of pre-reg status?
convention program with comic... 10 bucks.. So exciting.
admittance to the sales room including the Private Sales Room Experience on Friday = Crap
Early Bird privileges on Saturday = Crap
admittance to the Awards Party = Crap
admittance to all convention panels/seminars.. I need to Alert GW.. They let the free entrance people at gamesday into these.. Think of all the money they could be making..
$50 in gaming coupons for Awards Party and Casino night = Crap, just cut 50 bucks off the cost of the pre-reg.
an extra exclusive figure.. K,

Not to drastically change the subject.. But this was brought about becuase of the " More pre-regs means more money for FP" Ofcourse it does.. Cuase they jack your wallet when you pre-reg for worthless stuff.. In my opinion.

So regardless of if it makes any money for FP (Who I don't care if they make any money or not) I think that If I attend the 07 convention I will be contended with a walkin pass.


*edit* One does not simply Walk Into Botcon!

Edited by Morningstar, 11 October 2006 - 10:24 PM.


#19 Chip

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 10:22 PM

Wow. We complained when we had to have our convention in the fall for two years straight, but I didn't see anything even approaching the level of petulant, self-absorbed dimwittery I'm seeing in that thread.

Yeah, let's move the date of this multi-million dollar movie so you don't have to bring a sweater to your convention. You didn't see this coming? When BotCon was shoved aside into late fall just so the Joe fans could keep summer, you never even considered that it might be nice to trade off every now and then? If that's the case, I have no sympathy for the Joe fandom whatsoever.

Edited by Chip, 11 October 2006 - 10:32 PM.


#20 The Jawa

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 10:44 PM

QUOTE
five-figure boxed set [w/ a certificate of authenticity, tech specs and convention pin] = Crap
the opportunity to buy a bagged set.. Why would I need an extra set?
convention name badge... Uhh.. I thought most conventions gave you a lanyard regardless of pre-reg status?
convention program with comic... 10 bucks.. So exciting.
admittance to the sales room including the Private Sales Room Experience on Friday = Crap
Early Bird privileges on Saturday = Crap
admittance to the Awards Party = Crap
admittance to all convention panels/seminars.. I need to Alert GW.. They let the free entrance people at gamesday into these.. Think of all the money they could be making..
$50 in gaming coupons for Awards Party and Casino night = Crap, just cut 50 bucks off the cost of the pre-reg.
an extra exclusive figure.. K,


1.) Collectable. (Or resellable for a fair bit of a price hike -- see Ebay)
2.) I agree with you there. I had no desire to buy a second set.
3.) *shrugs* was a cool thing to have the VA's sign - and no you got a hand stamp as a walk in.
4.) Again a Collectable.
5.) Was fun and less crowded.
6.) Again less crowded.
7.) Didn't care much for it. But it was a free meal. And a fairly good one I'm told.
8.) Well worth it. AND enjoyable.
9.) The coupons, that wasn't 50$ that was 200$ in gaming tokens to just futz with. (and or win toys)
10.) Collectable. (And resellable for a fair bit of a price hike)

And you forgot that admission also includes free Autographs. And admission to TF:TM, revamped before it is released on DVD. Being as one who has and had to scrape and save and whine and beg and do parlour tricks to go. (And is NOT a club member) The 300$ price tag ... was really worth it (imo, and I am far from rich). Sure there were some things I personally don't like. Never are going to like 100% of things in a "package deal"

The awards party was too crowded. And I don't gamble or drink. But still, it was worth it. I have absolutely no regrets what so ever. Matter of fact, my husband went as a walk-in. And on the way home... decided in 07' to go as a mini-con. (He is someone who is not really a fan of TF, but likes the atmosphere and people quite a bit)

To me however the membership to the club is not worth it. As I'd only use it to get the discount off the Botcon price. But it'd end up being the same price so... meh no huge loss there.

Never the less if the toys and what not don't interest you. Many people sell them off and end up at the very least paying for thier own admission fee, or most of thier trip.

... to each thier own.

As for the original topic. I find it rather petulent of the Joe people to whine. (Though some were quite maturely handling it) It's a "special" event. Period. How it's done this year does not dictate how it's done in the future.

Edited by Waspinator's Muse, 11 October 2006 - 10:45 PM.

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