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@  ▲ndrusi : (04 July 2020 - 10:47 AM)

(And the 0th anniversary of the last time I couldn't do math.)

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 July 2020 - 10:46 AM)

Today is the 24th anniversary of the day we fought off an alien invasion with the help of Will Smith.

@  Maximus Ambus : (04 July 2020 - 10:41 AM)

Oh the end of the Ottoman Empire of course.

@  -LittleAutob... : (04 July 2020 - 10:14 AM)

*ahem* 4th of July....

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 July 2020 - 08:14 AM)

Nothing of importance has happened before, and nothing of importance will happen again.

@  Maximus Ambus : (04 July 2020 - 08:12 AM)

Nothing of importance happened today.

@  Telly : (03 July 2020 - 09:54 PM)

i want a "i survived 'rona and all i got was this lousy t-shirt"

@  TheMightyMol... : (03 July 2020 - 03:42 PM)

Slogan for 2021: "I Lived, Bitch."

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 July 2020 - 03:23 PM)

They should make the next book in the Survivors series 'I SURVIVED CORONA VIRUS 2020'

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 July 2020 - 03:23 PM)

YEEEE I'M A SURVIVOR-

@  Nevermore : (03 July 2020 - 06:59 AM)

Probably gonna assemble Devastator after work.

@  Nevermore : (03 July 2020 - 06:58 AM)

Ooooh. Overload arrived. He's surprisingly fun.

@  Bass X0 : (02 July 2020 - 04:00 PM)

He's sweeter than the average bear.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 July 2020 - 03:14 PM)

Convert him to Maple Syrup.

@  Bass X0 : (02 July 2020 - 03:10 PM)

what would Canada do with Yogi?

@  Cyoti : (01 July 2020 - 12:51 PM)

We can deport Yogi back to Canada now.

@  Sabrblade : (01 July 2020 - 12:50 PM)

Jellystone National Pawk. A westful wetweat.

@  Rycochet : (01 July 2020 - 12:47 PM)

Jellystone. We're going to be plunged into a decade of poor animation. Fortunately we've been led by bad cartoon characters for years so we won't notice much difference.

@  Maximus Ambus : (01 July 2020 - 06:19 AM)

what next? YELLOWSTONE?

@  Nevermore : (01 July 2020 - 05:46 AM)

Thanks, dead person.

@  Bass X0 : (01 July 2020 - 05:06 AM)

congratulations to all survivors of the first half of 2020.

@  wonko the sane? : (30 June 2020 - 10:21 PM)

21 for me, but after numerous repetitions I got it down to 17 and a half.

@  TheMightyMol... : (30 June 2020 - 06:16 PM)

I transform in six steps from human to human sitting on my ass at the computer and back again!

@  -LittleAutob... : (30 June 2020 - 05:55 PM)

x-x when in vehicle mode we can travel much F A R T H E R-

@  wonko the sane? : (30 June 2020 - 05:52 PM)

Because despite the fact that we can travel around the world in the time it takes to get a good nights sleep and a couple of meals: people rarely wander more than 25 miles away from home for the duration of their lives.

@  Otaku : (30 June 2020 - 05:49 PM)

I don't know how many days that trip takes - especially while sightseeing - but explaining they're 3936 kilometers (2445 miles) apart gives an idea, paradoxically because it is too large to easily picture.

@  Otaku : (30 June 2020 - 05:44 PM)

Aye.  When I catch lay people discussing miles and not how long the trip takes, it is in an attempt to stress how far away something is... like NYC to LA.

@  ▲ndrusi : (30 June 2020 - 01:20 PM)

But I can imagine 45 *minutes* easily.

@  ▲ndrusi : (30 June 2020 - 01:20 PM)

I can imagine a mile, it's a distance I've run. I can't really imagine 45 miles.

@  ▲ndrusi : (30 June 2020 - 01:19 PM)

I think there's also an element of the thing where things that are much bigger than us all blur together.

@  Otaku : (30 June 2020 - 11:49 AM)

If you're not, then you're more concerned with how long it takes.  Actual distance doesn't tell you that very well.  Besides traffic and road conditions, you'll need to know what kind of driving (city/interstate/rural/etc.).

@  Otaku : (30 June 2020 - 11:47 AM)

Distance matters if you're being paid by the mile.

@  TM2-Megatron : (30 June 2020 - 11:44 AM)

Canadians are the same way, for the most part. If you're driving somewhere far, especially, it helps you plan out the day more than a distance in KM would.

@  Otaku : (30 June 2020 - 11:42 AM)

We use the time it takes to get someplace because that is what is relevant to us.

@  TheMightyMol... : (30 June 2020 - 10:55 AM)

Because even we can't figure out miles half the time.

@  Paladin : (30 June 2020 - 09:54 AM)

it's a big country with a lot of empty space. between our citizens' ears.

@  Bass X0 : (30 June 2020 - 09:52 AM)

Why do most Americans measure distance by hours of driving?

@  TM2-Megatron : (29 June 2020 - 07:26 PM)

And as a result the world's lone blu-ray release of the film, an Australian disc that came out 7 years ago, now goes for hundreds of dollars on eBay. Thanks Disney.

@  TM2-Megatron : (29 June 2020 - 06:21 PM)

Well, they censored Daryl Hannah's butt in Splash :rolleyes

@  Paladin : (29 June 2020 - 05:43 PM)

maybe New Mutants is too bad even for D+.

@  Steevy Maximus : (29 June 2020 - 05:00 PM)

X-Men films are coming to Disney+ next month. But will they censor Hugh Jackman's butt?

@  -LittleAutob... : (29 June 2020 - 12:44 PM)

Pft.

@  TheMightyMol... : (29 June 2020 - 11:59 AM)

Behold! Night Strike Galvatron!

@  Bass X0 : (29 June 2020 - 09:53 AM)

I will grant you a recolored body, and recolored troops to command.

@  Cybersnark : (29 June 2020 - 09:47 AM)

I don't want to be reissued. This body sucks, I wanna be updated.

@  Nevermore : (29 June 2020 - 09:43 AM)

I definitely don't intend to be reissued. Nobody would buy me.

@  Bass X0 : (29 June 2020 - 08:31 AM)

will anybody else attempt to be reissued?

@  wonko the sane? : (29 June 2020 - 07:51 AM)

*Gasp* Decepticons re-writing history to serve their own needs?!?!

@  Nevermore : (29 June 2020 - 05:48 AM)

The whole point of the DJD is that they're fanatical Megatron fanboys (especially Tarn) to the point of having their own headcanon taking priority of the actual canon, simply speaking.

@  TheMightyMol... : (29 June 2020 - 04:01 AM)

They didn't know the war was over until later. And then they denied it anyway.


Photo
- - - - -

Remember that concept art for "Muffy" the unmade Marvel cartoon?


54 replies to this topic

#21 Rycochet

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 07:43 PM

Weren't the less humanoid Minibots connected to Mysterians too? While the Muffy design resembles Bugbite, it also resembles aspects of designs like Brawn, the silver arms, clawhands and funky head.

#22 D.M

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 08:05 PM


Doubtful. The claw hands weren't all that uncommon in old robot designs.
Plus, unlike Muffy, Brawn has an actual head! :)

#23 NovaSaber

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 09:01 PM

No, it's true; Brawn, Windcharger, Huffer, and Gears started as Mysterians. See here: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Mysterians

And here.

 

 



#24 Rycochet

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 04:08 AM

Claw hands were common in general Japanese robots, but a rarity for Takara microman/diaclone offerings. The Mysterians were some of the least humanoid of the microchange era toys, claw hands and all. If there was a mysterians Beetle, it'd look more like Brawn than Bumblebee, which Muffy seems to. Sure they have heads, but Marvel took a huge heap of liberties converting designs for the produced cartoon, there's nothing to say they wouldn't go the other way and convert a visorhead into windows for cuteness if they're going theme Hanna Barbera path.

Shame so few of the people involved with the early days of transformers or Mysteriand are still around now, we'll probably never know.

Edited by Rycochet, 28 March 2020 - 06:14 AM.

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#25 Greebtron

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 09:10 AM

 

It was suggested that this might be Dennis Marks' pitch for the Mysterions that left clients Knickerbocker aghast due to it's goofiness, as related by Jim Shooter on his blog.  
http://jimshooter.co...rs-part-1.html/
 

Another highlight:  Part of the meeting was a scheduled conference call with Dennis Marks, head of development at Marvel Productions.  For reasons I’ll never understand, the people who ran Marvel Productions until Margaret Loesch took over hated us comics people.  David DePatie, Head of Production, especially.  They thought of us as amateurish morons, and our work as garbage.  MUCH more on that, later.[/size]
At any rate, we had provided the studio with my treatment and back story. 
Dennis spoke about what the studio proposed to do with the Mysterions property, which was to completely ignore my work and do something completely different.  And stupid.  With cute, wacky kids and a goofy dog.
That was the only time the Knickerbocker people showed any life.  They told Dennis that they wanted what I had created, not what he was talking about.  They couldn’t understand where he was coming from.  Didn’t he read the treatment?

 
I don't think this is that.  I suspect that, though Jeffrey Scott was hired to do the TF pitch, he was taking a lot of direction from Marks on this.  The people who worked on Spider-Man And His Amazing Friends have commented on how he would try to make the show silly and a lot of the same tropes are there.

 


Looking back at Jim's article... I think I may have worked out the timeline:
 
-In early 1983, Knickerbocker Toys licenses bunch of Japanese transforming robot toys (possibly Machine-Robo), creates the "Mysterions" line.

-DC Comics is approached to develop the tie-in media. Things didn't work out.

-Marvel is approached to develop the tie-in media. A deal was made.

-Marvel Comics (specifically Jim Shooter) and Marvel Productions (specifically Jeffrey Scott) develop two separate takes. MP comes up with a premise that would become Muffy.

-Hasbro acquires Knickerbocker Toys.

-Hasbro pitches Diaclone/Microman toys to Marvel.

-Mysterions and Diaclone/Microman cast get merged into "Car and Cable"

-MP revises their Mysterions treatment to include Diaclone/Microman cast. At MC, Denny O'Neil comes up with a brand new story treatment which is ultimately deemed unusable.

-"Car and Cable" gets rebranded to "Transformers", factions get named "Autobots" and "Decepticons".

-Jim Shooter writes a brand new story treatment. Bob Budiansky writes the bios.

-By November of 1983, a licensing issue with Mysterions portion may have occurred which might back up the idea that these were indeed Machine-Robo toys.

-That month the 1st advert is storyboarded, but with Diaclone/Microman cast only.

-MP creates a batch of model sheets in the style of Muffy. Nobody seems to have liked it (and these are really stupid looking as well as odd).

-Kohara comes up with his model sheets.

-Floro Dery gets brought in to revise Kohara's models and to design rest of the cast.

-Utilizing Dery's initial models, MP creates a batch of concept art on which Mysterions elements can still be spotted.

-Mysterions get axed completely, Muffy is no more, RIP.

-Things begin to take their final form and rest is history.
 
whj2cT7.gif

 

 

Problem with that timeline is that Knickerbocker was bought by Hasbro in November 1982.  The events Shooter describes on Mysterians could not have been concurrent or even close to the development of TF as Dennis Marks had been fired from Marvel by that point (he had made himself persona non grata with two out of three networks).


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#26 tec

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 09:31 AM

Ok any art on Mysterions or Car and Cable Id like to see visualy how the consept morphed from start to finish


Edited by tec, 28 March 2020 - 09:31 AM.

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#27 D.M

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 10:11 AM

No, it's true; Brawn, Windcharger, Huffer, and Gears started as Mysterians. See here: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Mysterians

And here.

 

 

 

Woah!

So with them starting out as Mysterians... that could perfectly explain why some of the model sheets have drastically different look. Like, they could've been based on early toy concept art.

 

And could it be that Soundwave also started as a Mysterian? Because his early model is perhaps the most bizarre of all:

zQg20pp.jpg?1

 

Yes, he's pictured with a normal hand, but so was early Brawn model (to be revealed by James Eatock in due time).

In fact, he's the only non-Minibot among the earliest models that we have (those being Brawn, Windcharger, Cliffjumper, Bumblebee and Huffer),

 


Problem with that timeline is that Knickerbocker was bought by Hasbro in November 1982.  The events Shooter describes on Mysterians could not have been concurrent or even close to the development of TF as Dennis Marks had been fired from Marvel by that point (he had made himself persona non grata with two out of three networks).

Ok, revision time:
-Some time in 1982, Knickerbocker Toys licenses bunch of Japanese transforming robot toys, creates the "Mysterions" line.

-DC Comics is approached to develop the tie-in media. Things didn't work out.

-Marvel is approached to develop the tie-in media. A deal was made.

-Marvel Comics (specifically Jim Shooter) and Marvel Productions (specifically Jeffrey Scott) develop two separate takes. MP comes up with a premise that would become Muffy.

-Hasbro acquires Knickerbocker Toys in November of 1982.

-Some time later, Hasbro pitches Diaclone/Microman toys to Marvel.

-Mysterions and Diaclone/Microman cast get merged into "Car and Cable"

-MP revises their Mysterions treatment to include Diaclone/Microman cast. At MC, Denny O'Neil comes up with a brand new story treatment which is ultimately deemed unusable.

-"Car and Cable" gets rebranded to "Transformers", factions get named "Autobots" and "Decepticons".

-Jim Shooter writes a brand new story treatment. Bob Budiansky writes the bios.

-By November of 1983, future of Mysterions portion may have been uncertain for whatever reason.

-That month the 1st advert is storyboarded, but with Diaclone/Microman cast only.

-MP creates a batch of model sheets in the style of Muffy. Nobody seems to have liked it (and these are really stupid looking as well as odd).

-Kohara comes up with his model sheets.

-Floro Dery gets brought in to revise Kohara's models and to design rest of the cast.

-Utilizing Dery's initial models, MP creates a batch of concept art on which Muffy like vehicle can be spotted.

-Muffy gets axed completely, the minibots are all that remain of Mysterions.

-Things begin to take their final form and rest is history.

 


If there was a mysterians Beetle, it'd look more like Brawn than Bumblebee, which Muffy seems to.

Well, speaking of Bumblebee, he too seemed to have followed that design element as his model appears to have pincers for hands:
jofdKDs.jpg


Edited by D.M, 28 March 2020 - 11:10 AM.


#28 Death's Head

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 12:31 PM

 

 

MP creates a batch of model sheets in the style of Muffy. Nobody seems to have liked it (and these are really stupid looking as well as odd).

 

Any more images of this beyond what's in the thread?


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#29 D.M

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 03:11 PM

MP creates a batch of model sheets in the style of Muffy. Nobody seems to have liked it (and these are really stupid looking as well as odd).

 
Any more images of this beyond what's in the thread?

At the moment, just Cliffjumper:
FM6eEda.jpg

Oh, and this Optimus that was oddly based on Diaclone prototype:
Z5f8NhT.jpg?1

That version actually ended up getting used on the cover of the 1st Marvel US comic book issue.

#30 Death's Head

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Posted 30 March 2020 - 11:54 AM

Thanks man. I find this stuff endlessly fascinating.


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#31 Greebtron

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Posted 30 March 2020 - 06:46 PM

The ebay pages of the seller, who has some of these up already.  Along with a whole load of other Marvel pitch artwork, mostly from the later years.  

 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/buffysplace

https://www.ebay.com...=1&_ipg=&_from=


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The Sunbow and Marvel Productions script/storyboard archive, chronicling ten years of animation history: https://sunbowmarvel...e.blogspot.com/

 


#32 JonT

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 09:47 AM

That is so weird, it feels more Hanna-Barbera than what Marvel were putting out at that time.

 

Jeffrey Scott, who wrote the "A Robot's Best Friend Is His Dog" script, did indeed write a lot of scripts for Hanna-Barbera, perhaps most notably most of the Super Friends episodes from 1977 to 1980. Between the gonzo original TF character design sketches and the relative quality of Jeffery Scott's other scriptwork around this time, I think we really dodged a bullet.

 

It's likely that the two males in the presentation images are Eddie and Matt, and if I were to guess, the girl is most probably Matt's daughter and friend to Eddie.

 

That we don't specifically know her name is as a result of all the female characters (including Transformers ones) being dropped once the network was no longer involved and the series instead went for syndication.

 

After the female characters were dropped, Eddie and Matt's names were still referenced in the April 1984 Transformers series bible, with Eddie specifically mentioned as an equivalent for Spike. However, with no equivalent female character in the first season of Transformers, the original girl's name from "Muffy" went unmentioned.


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#33 Greebtron

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 10:40 AM

 

That is so weird, it feels more Hanna-Barbera than what Marvel were putting out at that time.

 

Jeffrey Scott, who wrote the "A Robot's Best Friend Is His Dog" script, did indeed write a lot of scripts for Hanna-Barbera, perhaps most notably most of the Super Friends episodes from 1977 to 1980. Between the gonzo original TF character design sketches and the relative quality of Jeffery Scott's other scriptwork around this time, I think we really dodged a bullet.

 

It's likely that the two males in the presentation images are Eddie and Matt, and if I were to guess, the girl is most probably Matt's daughter and friend to Eddie.

 

That we don't specifically know her name is as a result of all the female characters (including Transformers ones) being dropped once the network was no longer involved and the series instead went for syndication.

 

After the female characters were dropped, Eddie and Matt's names were still referenced in the April 1984 Transformers series bible, with Eddie specifically mentioned as an equivalent for Spike. However, with no equivalent female character in the first season of Transformers, the original girl's name from "Muffy" went unmentioned.

 

 

I'll defend Scott a little bit.  Pleasing network executives in order to get a show approved was still the name of the game going into 1984 and he played that game.  They loved this goofy nonsense, which is why TF and all of these shows needed to stay away from the 3 networks.

 

In terms of his actual scripts, I have 8 of his from D&D and I wouldn't call them bad.  Formulaic?  Sure.  But that's what network TV was at that point.  

https://sunbowmarvel...-1983-1985.html


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The Sunbow and Marvel Productions script/storyboard archive, chronicling ten years of animation history: https://sunbowmarvel...e.blogspot.com/

 


#34 D.M

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 08:15 AM

 

That is so weird, it feels more Hanna-Barbera than what Marvel were putting out at that time.

 

Jeffrey Scott, who wrote the "A Robot's Best Friend Is His Dog" script, did indeed write a lot of scripts for Hanna-Barbera, perhaps most notably most of the Super Friends episodes from 1977 to 1980. Between the gonzo original TF character design sketches and the relative quality of Jeffery Scott's other scriptwork around this time, I think we really dodged a bullet.

 

It's likely that the two males in the presentation images are Eddie and Matt, and if I were to guess, the girl is most probably Matt's daughter and friend to Eddie.

 

That we don't specifically know her name is as a result of all the female characters (including Transformers ones) being dropped once the network was no longer involved and the series instead went for syndication.

 

After the female characters were dropped, Eddie and Matt's names were still referenced in the April 1984 Transformers series bible, with Eddie specifically mentioned as an equivalent for Spike. However, with no equivalent female character in the first season of Transformers, the original girl's name from "Muffy" went unmentioned.

 

Especially as he claims to have inserted s c i e n t o l o g y messaging in his scripts.

 

 

It's likely that the two males in the presentation images are Eddie and Matt, and if I were to guess, the girl is most probably Matt's daughter and friend to Eddie.

 

With any luck we'll find out soon. I've been informed that Muffy is indeed a nickname for Muffler and the girl is named Wendy.


Edited by D.M, 03 April 2020 - 08:16 AM.


#35 JonT

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 11:28 AM

With any luck we'll find out soon. I've been informed that Muffy is indeed a nickname for Muffler and the girl is named Wendy.

 

 

It'll be interesting to know more about this pitch now that it's known there is a connection to the development of Transformers.

 

Regarding Jeffrey Scott, there's an interesting comment by Scott Shaw! regarding Jeffrey Scott's scripts on Muppet Babies being "heavily re-written" by the storyboard artists on this page:

 

https://cartoonresea...-anecdotes-380/


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#36 Sabrblade

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 01:53 PM

Hearing that man's name always makes me do a double take since my first grade bully was a mean classmate named Jeffery Scott.


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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#37 D.M

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 02:29 PM

With any luck we'll find out soon. I've been informed that Muffy is indeed a nickname for Muffler and the girl is named Wendy.

 
It'll be interesting to know more about this pitch now that it's known there is a connection to the development of Transformers.
 
Regarding Jeffrey Scott, there's an interesting comment by Scott Shaw! regarding Jeffrey Scott's scripts on Muppet Babies being "heavily re-written" by the storyboard artists on this page:


https://cartoonresea...-anecdotes-380/

ltJ4QMT.gif

#38 D.M

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Posted 14 April 2020 - 10:31 PM

Ladies and gents, we have more higher quality pics and info. :)
 
Dmd6kIW.jpg
7IsTvVc.jpg

gvOegQn.jpg
QMKrjCp.jpg

nBsdZuN.jpg
vHY1VxE.jpg

b5HmiAw.jpg?1
bKziyGS.jpg

So there, we finally know how Eddie and Matt look like. :)

Speaking of looks... Eddie sure resembles Buster, doesn't he? :)
4TM0iZc.jpg?1

Edited by D.M, 14 April 2020 - 10:47 PM.


#39 PlutoniumBoss

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:21 PM

That's Prime's rifle, but I don't recognize the silhouette.


In need of BW Bonecrusher's missile, PM me if you have a spare.


#40 D.M

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:34 PM

That's Prime's rifle, but I don't recognize the silhouette.

It's actually Prowl/Bluestreak. You can see shadow cast by his "wings" and the "horns". :)
The gun appears to be a hybrid of his and Optimus' gun.


Edited by D.M, 15 April 2020 - 03:38 PM.




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