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@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 09:03 PM)

Unless you count the Mask vs Lobo special, but that's less a duel and more a duet.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 08:52 PM)

My favorite crossover fight was Thor vs Shazam/Captain Marvel. Early in the fight, Thor discovers that Billy Batson needs lightning to transform, and being a god of lightning he simply denies him that.

@  Sabrblade : (04 August 2020 - 08:46 PM)

Let's see a fight between Death Battle and Super Power Beat Down

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

Which Lobo later claimed was because he was paid to take a dive. Yes, really.

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

And then there's the times it's been decided by a fan vote, which is how we get things like Lobo (who can go toe-to-toe with Superman at full strength) losing to Wolverine.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

And then there are the "but my favorite characater will totes win because I say so" people.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

I mean, there are some people who really approach this from a somewhat reasonable standpoint, coming up with a plausible scenario and a setting that creates a fair environment that doesn't favor one character.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:46 PM)

My favorite stupid "why would they even fight each other" question recently was about three versions of Optimus Prime (G1, Bayverse and Aligned).

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:45 PM)

Batman obviously can beat everyone. Even Galactus. He's Batman. He's so smart, he'll just throw a Batarang and hit the weak spot at Galactus's forehead, knocking him out instantaneously.

@  wonko the sane? : (04 August 2020 - 11:37 AM)

It's almost like all drama is just manufactured pissing contests to keep us all entertained and distracted. :p

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (04 August 2020 - 10:16 AM)

Or they could go White Ranger vs Scorpion route and have both win. ;P

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Besides, we all know the answer is nearly always "they fight to a standstill and then team up against a common enemy."

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:29 AM)

The best way to prove this is to give an example where the match is really lopsided in favor of one character but in popularity they're either evenly matched or the weaker one is more popular.

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:27 AM)

The "who would win in a fight" discussions are really just people trying to make "which one's better" into something you can theoretically measure objectively, usually in a very specific way they think they've predetermined their favorite will win.

@  Otaku : (04 August 2020 - 02:01 AM)

@Nevermore So... you're saying you didn't like DC Versus Marvel/Marvel Versus DC?

@  Steevy Maximus : (03 August 2020 - 06:59 PM)

So, what happened to Hasbro's Zoids relaunch? An English dub, some stuff in southeast Asia, and now a game coming in October? That it?

@  wonko the sane? : (03 August 2020 - 10:46 AM)

Tidal wave, cause shooting water gets you nowhere.

@  Darth Gonzo : (03 August 2020 - 09:57 AM)

Who would win Tidal Wave or Broadside?

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 August 2020 - 08:17 AM)

Btw Happy birthday to those people in the box to the right \o/

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 August 2020 - 08:16 AM)

The bottom line is obvious. It makes no literal sense to fight someone on your faction. :/

@  wonko the sane? : (03 August 2020 - 06:14 AM)

That's because you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to just stack skills and ability against each other. It's not the palace of doom, it's an episode of american gladiators.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:32 AM)

The only obvious winners of such a fight would be the bad guys.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:29 AM)

And what does it even matter? They should work together, not stupidly fight each other for the mindless entertainment of idiot onlookers.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:29 AM)

Why would two good guys fight each other? What are they fighting over?

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:28 AM)

I never understood these "who would win in a fight between two good guys" discussions. They make no sense to me.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 August 2020 - 04:17 PM)

If G1 had continued we'd have had Starscream back in spirit - through Krunk, Snapdragons partner and possibly Skullcruncher unless he was mute.

@  Bass X0 : (02 August 2020 - 12:28 PM)

There are some decent impersonators in fandubs though.

@  -LittleAutob... : (02 August 2020 - 10:45 AM)

The only true Starscream voices are Steve Blum and Chris Latta, hands down.

@  Sabrblade : (02 August 2020 - 10:14 AM)

Why they didn't have Scott McNeil voicing that Starscream, when he was the one who had imitated Chris Latta when he voiced Cobra Commander in the DiC G.I. Joe cartoon, is beyond me.

@  wonko the sane? : (02 August 2020 - 09:57 AM)

Say what you will, that was an awesome scene.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 August 2020 - 08:36 AM)

Beast Wars Starsream "I am AIR COMMANDER Starscream of the DECEPTICON BATTLEFLEET!"

@  Nevermore : (02 August 2020 - 07:02 AM)

I liked TF: Prime Starscream.

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 August 2020 - 08:36 PM)

Hearing Starscream's screechy voice in Cyberverse has to be the most annoying thing ever in Transformers. Even his G1 voice wasn't as bad. :doh

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 August 2020 - 08:35 PM)


@  Sabrblade : (01 August 2020 - 04:58 PM)


@  TheMightyMol... : (01 August 2020 - 03:16 PM)


@  PlutoniumBoss : (01 August 2020 - 02:57 AM)


@  Hg Dragon : (01 August 2020 - 01:21 AM)


@  Sabrblade : (31 July 2020 - 11:02 PM)

Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice!

@  Echowarrior : (31 July 2020 - 10:18 PM)


@  TheMightyMol... : (31 July 2020 - 05:13 PM)


@  PlutoniumBoss : (31 July 2020 - 03:04 PM)

Bueller? Bueller?

@  Jet : (31 July 2020 - 11:31 AM)


@  Maximus Ambus : (31 July 2020 - 06:55 AM)


@  Xaaron : (31 July 2020 - 06:49 AM)


@  Nevermore : (31 July 2020 - 05:33 AM)


@  SG Roadbuster : (31 July 2020 - 04:44 AM)


@  lastmaximal : (31 July 2020 - 01:33 AM)


@  TheMightyMol... : (30 July 2020 - 07:15 PM)

Now I wonder how many Transformers we can name with the fewest possible different names.

@  Nevermore : (30 July 2020 - 06:38 PM)

Ransack. That's like another 20 or so.

* * * - - 2 votes

Something seems to be up with Botcon

561 replies to this topic

#41 gearshift


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Posted 01 February 2020 - 08:34 PM

I talked a little about it on the Allspark Discord, but it's totally wild that you guys put up with absolute horror stories from the Fun Pub people for so long. I've been attending TFNation the past three years - none of which was contemporary with any BotCon, otherwise I would've commented at the time - and the atmosphere is just EXTREMELY, unspeakably nice and homely, with no criseses in sight. How would it even get that bad in the first place AND maintain its official partnership is straight up beyond my mortal comprehension.

Edited by gearshift, 01 February 2020 - 08:35 PM.

#42 Primal Sabbath

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 09:27 PM

Like with everything there were mishaps along the way, but I was never treated poorly. I never witnessed anyone treated poorly at a Botcon. The only thing anyone ever complained about at the show itself, regarding the show itself was when a desired exclusive sold out.
I'd even argue most of the folks complaining on the FunPub years still enjoyed their time at the cons they went to.

#43 LV!


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Posted 01 February 2020 - 09:47 PM

If I never have to interact with Brian Savage again, it'll be too soon.



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Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:26 AM

Enjoyment of the experiences at any particular Funpub Botcon has precious little bearing on the various mistakes that Funpub made, and it doesn't invalidate the complaints.

I greatly enjoyed every Botcon I attended, but about 90% of that enjoyment came from hanging out with fellow Allsparkers.
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#45 Zodberg


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Posted 02 February 2020 - 04:07 AM

Anybody have pictures of my Miko cosplay?

#46 Nevermore


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Posted 02 February 2020 - 07:10 AM

2) Re Hasbro waiting it out. FunPub could pay a relatively small fee and do the cheapest possible thing every few years to hold onto the trademark in perpetuity. Also, if the USPTO invalidates aspects of the Trademark (as opposed to it just expiring), that makes the Trademark weaker in the long-term, even if they manage to obtain it after FunPub theoretically let it lapse...which they likely won't for another few years, at minimum, since they just put in money for an appeal.



The question, of course, would be why FunPub would even want to keep it. Do they expect Hasbro to pay them big bucks to obtain the trademark? Otherwise it would be rather pointless to hold onto the trademark for years without doing anything useful with it.

Edited by Nevermore, 02 February 2020 - 07:11 AM.

Big thanks to my dad for playing along with this visual recreation.

#47 Hydra


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Posted 02 February 2020 - 08:55 AM

When I saw mention of BotCon potentially returning, I just had to come back and post.


This is what I'd most like to know from people suggesting various possibilities for what this means:


・Considering the two major periods of BotCon being the 3H and FunPub eras, what would you consider to be an ideal future incarnation of BotCon?

Fully Hasbro run? Fan run? Run by an event company under license from Hasbro?


・Specifically, what do you consider to be the failings of the FunPub era that should be improved upon?

in spite of various complaints, it did continue for over a decade, which is more than can be said for many events.

Botcon 1997 Dinner Decoys: $300 ea.
Unreleased Ultra Magnus Street Speed Team: $1000
Lucky Draw Orange Hazard Team: $500/member
Bagged BotCon 2006 Box Set figures

#48 NightViper



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Posted 02 February 2020 - 09:29 AM

Just wanted to say that the vast majority of the convention staff were amazing people. Really some of the best, kindest people I've dealt with, and most would do anything to help settle a complaint or problem anyone at the convention had and with which approached them. I greatly looked forward to seeing them again every convention, almost as much as seeing fellow fans. 

A bad egg really shouldn't spoil the dozen. Or taint anyone's view of the convention - especially those that never had a chance to attend and get to interact with the people running it. The actual people running it. 

#49 TriBlurr


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Posted 02 February 2020 - 10:52 AM

Never been to a Botcon.  Always wanted to.  Maybe now I can someday.  Meet some of you folks in person for once. :p

#50 Jim S

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 11:33 AM

Considering the two major periods of BotCon being the 3H and FunPub eras, what would you consider to be an ideal future incarnation of BotCon? Fully Hasbro run? Fan run? Run by an event company under license from Hasbro?

Thanks for dropping in, especially in such a constructive fashion. I'll endeavor to be as specific and constructive as I can, in turn.

I don't think Hasbro should be running their own conventions realistically. It's not their core competency. It's not what they're interested in.

Ideally it would be run by an event company that has ties to the fandom and ties with Hasbro. You don't want something that's just out to make a buck, but business considerations shouldn't be neglected either. A con that makes money is a con that can sustain itself.

Specifically, what do you consider to be the failings of the FunPub era that should be improved upon?

As someone who went to many 3H shows and every FP show, I think the there are several areas of improvement.

1) Big picture wise, FP at its core wanted to be a boutique toy company. Every aspect of its DNA was structured around this idea. Botcon from 2005-2016 existed largely in the service of this goal. It's telling that there was no real way to have the full con experience without purchasing a package with hundreds of dollars of toys. It was baffling to me that there was no full-experience pass experience for, say, $50-75 that would let you attend all events and all days that wasn't an adjunct to a toy pass.

Ideally the convention experience would be at the forefront. The guests, the gatherings, the dealers room, the workshops. Exclusives are nice but I personally skipped them many years. One or two strong offerings per year would have been ideal. Given the fan service in the main lines, I'd even be ok sharing an exclusive with SDCC or other conventions.

2) Professionalism. I wish this weren't an issue but it was. Cons did not always feel inclusive. Mistakes weren't owned. Criticisms weren't tolerated. It's ok if some fraction of your audience doesn't like a decision, it's not ok to go and argue with them that they SHOULD like it.

In any future iteration of Botcon, communications should be considered carefully, and perhaps handled by someone with some emotional distance from the con.

3) This is just a matter of personal preference, but I would seriously consider holding the convention at the same time every year and that the same location. I have to believe there are efficiencies be gleaned from building relationships with specific venues and it would make planning much easier. I always enjoyed SoCal based BotCons, as they tended to have the best guests. I do see the argument for some centrally located choices that are a not crazy drive for the more populated eastern/central corridor. Either way it'd be easier for me to plan my year if I expected that every late June I'd be in (say) Indiana.

(Not a failing per se, but room for improvement.)

4) More fan involvement. MSTF was always a blast. More like that! Block out a room and fill it with fan-run workshops and panels, with a low barrier to entry. Put a disclaimer in front of necessary. It's a pretty standard practice for conventions, and helps the attendees feel more like the con is for them.

Don't get me wrong, FP did many things right. It's the nature of the beast that you can do 100 things right and people will always remember the one thing that went wrong. But if you apologize, then genuinely try to do better, your audience will probably forgive you.


Edited by Jim S, 02 February 2020 - 11:34 AM.

#51 LV!


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Posted 02 February 2020 - 01:34 PM

I'll add that I'm probably not the only one who will never enjoy a new Botcon quite as much as I used to, because they're not new and I'm not eighteen and the brand isn't where it was when I started going. None of that means there's no point to the shows, and every show will be someone's first, but there's not really anything new you can do at this point. We've met the actors, we've seen the toys in advance, we've even gotten movie sneak previews and visited the Hasbro headquarters. For increasingly old and decrepit fans like myself, it really does end up being "how much do I enjoy this context I'm basically using to hang out with my friends?". FP's more relaxed schedule (combined with a decrease in feeling like I needed to go to every single panel) really did make the weekend more enjoyable for me, but "removing a mandatory buy-in of $400 for everyone whether they want the toys or not" would be a great move too.


Credit to FP for not constantly overextending themselves, by the way - they failed at things repeatedly and obviously never took any responsibility except at the end of a metaphorical gun, but for the most part, the things they intended to do got done with a minimum of last-minute panic. I know all Glen ever wanted to do was put on a legitimately great show for fans, but his boundless ambition was probably as much a hindrance in the final assessment as an advantage.


(And also the resale value of the BC stuff as Fun Pub's tenure went on really underscored how hard it is to come up with hundreds of dollars in toys every year that a) appeal to a lot of people but also b) aren't just going to be made by Hasbro the next year at this point in the brand's life.)


Also I can't emphasize enough what a good idea it would be not to hire a PR man whose primary skill is being incredibly thin-skinned and combative. So maybe don't put it in the hands of the kind of asshole who would think that was a good call.

#52 Sprocket



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Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:59 PM

A Botcon that doesn't exclude guests because of something they drew for a Japanese exclusive collector's line mini-comic would be nice, but I'm not naive enough to believe that's possible for any western convention any more

Edited by Sprocket, 02 February 2020 - 02:59 PM.

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#53 Primal Sabbath

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 03:20 PM

When I saw mention of BotCon potentially returning, I just had to come back and post.
This is what I'd most like to know from people suggesting various possibilities for what this means:
・Considering the two major periods of BotCon being the 3H and FunPub eras, what would you consider to be an ideal future incarnation of BotCon?
Fully Hasbro run? Fan run? Run by an event company under license from Hasbro?
・Specifically, what do you consider to be the failings of the FunPub era that should be improved upon?
in spite of various complaints, it did continue for over a decade, which is more than can be said for many events.

So. To me an ideal show is the sweet spot between 3H and FunPub.. FunPub went full stop and produced many great toys with many great stories. 3H was a smaller run with a tighter knit story. And then there's Hascon to look at.
Just by looking at Hascon, Hasbro really doesn't know how to put on a show for fans. They charged you $600 with no toys, a lame exclusive and early access to a TRU exclusive. They rented out a mega space and got Flo Rida and some NE Patriots show up .... Like what? Why?
I wouldn't hate the return of a $300-$400 box set that comes with the dinner, the free autographs, extra day, etc... I would say 6 figures between the whole show is good.. Even if it's like 3 at pre-reg and then 3 at show or something. At its height 3H offered 4 in a new year. FunPub usually offered 13-15 yeah? Custom class is a must, as well in my opinion.
But I would say the biggest detriment to a FunPub Botcon was that after $1000 in toys and travel. Dealers kinda got snubbed and fell by the wayside.
Fully fan-run without Hasbro involvement but using Hasbro toys is highly doubtful. So I think a perfect balance between Hasbro and a fan-run event company dedicated to it is the way to go.
I feel like between 3H and FunPub there was a lot of fan service: Script readings, fan interactive Facebook pages, even "the death of chocolate" was a very cool idea that suffered from problems in execution. But it's just stuff that Hasbro and the Transformers creative team wouldn't think about. They aren't really "down here" with us for crazy/awesome exclusives ideas or fan interaction.

#54 MrBlud


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Posted 02 February 2020 - 03:39 PM

Hascon wasnt a convention run for 30 year old Transformers manchildren of which I count myself among so dont get the wrong idea.

It was run primarily for children and it showed. The two I took had an AMAZING time and were sad it didnt return the next year.

You can argue they dont know how to successfully run a Convention but Im pretty sure they succeeded in what they wanted Hascon to represent.


#55 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 03:44 PM

Good parts of Botcons Past:
- Meeting other Fans
- Exclusive Fiction
- Art and Video Rooms
- 2 or 3 special Exclusive Toys
- MST3K Panel
- Hasbro Preview Panel

Bad Parts of Botcons Past:
- Multi-hundred dollar Exclusive toy box sets plus another half-dozen or so exclusive toys sold separately
- Not being close enough to me often enough.

-ZacWilliam, That's all I got.

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 02 February 2020 - 03:45 PM.

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#56 Zodberg


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Posted 02 February 2020 - 04:39 PM

I had a great time at Hascon. Plenty of time speaking with Susan Blu. A NERF room. Meeting Stan Lee. The only thing I felt it was missing was a vendor room, and I get those from local toy shows. And okay, never thought I would go to a Flo Rida show but it was very entertaining! If Hasbro wanted to use the same competency on a TF-focused event, hell yeah. Seriously let's keep the NERF room.


The national TF convention absolutely should change locations annually. A huge part of the appeal for me of cons is getting to see different places. But I understand in movie years it's gotta be West Coast Forever.

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#57 Echowarrior


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Posted 02 February 2020 - 08:51 PM

The only serious issue I had with FunPub was how one year, I ordered a T-shirt as part of my non-attendee package, and didn't get one. The matter was still resolved to my satisfaction, but still, a heads-up would've been welcome, a note along the lines of "We're sorry, but the T-shirts sold out. Please contact us at this phone number to see about a refund or an alternative" or something similar.

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#58 LBD "Nytetrayn"

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 11:50 PM

Not having had the opportunity to go to one myself, I am curious about the recurring notion here that stuff made for BotCon being available from Hasbro the following year.

In particular, what was preferable:

- Original convention-exclusive characters (like Apelinq and Shokaract)

- This character you know, only now they're ____ (like BM Tigatron and Arcee, or most of the last several years of the event)

- A combination of the two (like the year they had BM Cyclonus, CATscan, Glyph, and Tap-Out)?

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#59 Classic Sideways

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 12:08 AM

A bad egg really shouldn't spoil the dozen. Or taint anyone's view of the convention - especially those that never had a chance to attend and get to interact with the people running it. The actual people running it. 

When the bad eggs include the big boss and the major outward face, its a bit more difficult to hand wave the odor away.

#60 Agent X

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 01:03 AM

As nice as the toys were, it essentially dominated the entire convention and club, and got even more ridiculous near the end.


Wanna go? Pay a yearly-increasing 3-digit number  for an EXCLUSIVE box set of TOYS!

(or pay a smaller THREE-DIGIT number with no toys just for the privilege of being in the presence of those who are more TRUE FANS then you will ever be, if you are one at all!) 

Attend in person? Well here is an EXCLUSIVE TOY!


Now that you're out of one line , get in this other line so you can listen to our Supreme Leader tell you about our At-Show EXCLUSIVE TOYS! (Note: the line will not move forward until Supreme Leader is finished.)


And one of our EXCLUSIVE TOYS is a Troop builder set so of course you'll need more than one! And OF COURSE we made less of this than ANYTHING ELSE! Oh, that guy is buying more than the posted limit? We can tell he is a Super-Mega fan, so limits don't apply to him.


Now, obviously we're in the first "Exclusive Early Super-Fan" day of the convention, know as 'Thursday' to the non-TF fan degenerates. That means you're attending our "Customizing Class" which is not a class in turning an existing into a new idea, but an  EXCLUSIVE gathering of ELITE fans to spend grateful hours of thankful labor to breath exquisite life into a super-limited EXCLUSIVE TOY! Forever reminding others that your Botcon 20XX collection is COMPLETE and theirs isn't.


Sadly, we expect you to wait until Saturday for us to bless you with the knowledge of what EXCLUSIVE TOY you will pay for to get SIX pamphlets a year and  EXCLUSIVE ACCESS to our EXCLUSIVELY 1990's store and infrequently-updated and equally 90's website where you can learn about when you can pre-purchase our EXCLUSIVE PAIR OF TOYS!


Then Sunday we reveal our EXCLUSIVE subscription SERVICE offerings of six EXCLUSIVE TOYS plus mention a SEVENTH EXCLUSIVE TOY that you will generously receive for nobally pre-purchasing the entire set! We'll expect you to honorably refrain from revealing the identity of such blessings upon their arrival, lest you be shunned by  our  illustrious selves and your distinguished peers up until the time for the next year's holy pilgrimage where you can compensate for your dereliction with our newest form of tribute.


Only 100 of the Truest, Loyal, Dedicated fans of exquisitely-colored robot toys will prove their worth above all other Transformer fans by selflessly sacrificing ANOTHER pre-determined THREE-DIGIT number to have bestowed upon them: The Golden Ticket! For shouldering THE tremendous responsibility of being the first ones to BREACH the panel room and take STAND to sit in the FRONT rows, these Elitist of THE ELITE shall be presented with....


an  EXCLUSIVE TOY! In addition with the GOD-GIVEN ability to purchase further numbers of the  EXCLUSIVE TOYS outside of the limits of the less worthy.


What's this? Inconceivable news doubting our infallibility?! With QUICKNESS, unleash pictures of our EXCLUSIVE TOYS in various of production or reveals to placate the masses and divert undesirable attention to our methods and commitments!

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