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@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (11 November 2019 - 09:26 PM)

I hate to burst your bubble, Maximus Ambus, but 90% of things said in IDW turned out to be amnesiac half-rememberings courtesy of Adaptus or outright lies courtesy of Shockwave.

@  Jenny : (11 November 2019 - 08:54 AM)

The toy's designed to look like Wipe-Out, anyway.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 November 2019 - 08:14 AM)

Didn't they try to retcon that into a figure of speech because that connection went against everybody else's long-term plans?

@  Maximus Ambus : (11 November 2019 - 03:53 AM)

There's still some connection given Trypticon was created by Mortilus.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (11 November 2019 - 12:12 AM)

Yeah that toy doesn't exactly look like Necrobot.

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 08:24 PM)

But.... it's just "Necro" not "Necrobot".

@  TheMightyMol... : (10 November 2019 - 05:10 PM)

But why does the God of Death need a giant space kaiju? Wait, never mind, answered my own question.

@  Maximus Ambus : (10 November 2019 - 02:15 PM)

Yowza I just realised Titans Trypticon comes with Necro AKA Censere AKA Mortilus.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:15 PM)

I... think the best equivalent would actually be the British "There is room for improvement".

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:15 PM)

There's always a sense of irony to it, but what the ratio between irony (you really failed) and straightworwardness (at least you achieved something) is depends on the situation and the speaker.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:12 PM)

The meaning can be both literal (you succeed on one level but fail on another), or it can be utterly ironic (you fail in every regard but the most technical; or even worse, "you really gave your best"), and anything in between.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 01:10 PM)

For example: A singer can hit the notes really well, but clearly isn't a native speaker and what little of the lyrics you can make out sounds nothing like what it's supposed to be.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 01:06 PM)

The premise seems to be the mixing of technical and aesthetic technical qualities towards the overall success.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 01:05 PM)

But both "hollow victory" and pyrrhic victory" are referring to having lost as much as you've gained. IE; a battle was won but both armies were destroyed. The town being seiged is victorious, but all the soldiers are still dead. Nevermore's concept is more "You did it, but it's so ugly we don't know if you actually succeeded".

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:35 AM)

Alternately, one could probably also call it a "hollow victory".

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:35 AM)

Example: In the Powerpuff Girls episode "Uh Oh Dynamo", the monster-of-the-day was a really tough, giant-size one that required the use of a really destructive mech to defeat it. While the monster was ultimately beaten, the city of Townsville was utterly trashed by the mech's weapons in the process. So, while the city was saved from the monster, it was harmed even worse by the mech that saved it, making the victory bittersweet.

@  Sabrblade : (10 November 2019 - 11:32 AM)

@Nevermore, sounds to me like what one might call a "bittersweet victory". The goal was met, but at great cost or by disastrous result that call into question if the achieved goal could even be called a success.

@  Arvegtor : (10 November 2019 - 09:40 AM)

Seems to be close enough to "Pyrrhic victory"

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 November 2019 - 09:37 AM)

What do you get from putting the German term through a translator?

@  wonko the sane? : (10 November 2019 - 08:57 AM)

That is a ridiculously interesting concept. But I don't think english has a singular term for what you're describing.

@  Nevermore : (10 November 2019 - 08:28 AM)

Is there an English equivalent for what we Germans call "deductions in the B rating"? Context: Someone did something and suceeded on a technical level (as in, achieved the intended goal), but failed to some degree in the details, i.e. there was some collateral damage, or while a technical success, the end result is an aestetic failure. It can be used highly ironically, as in "barely achieved the intended goal, but failed so much in every aspect that's not purely technical that it might as well be considered an utter failure altogether." The German term is derived from the old judging syste in figure skating, which gave separate ratings for "technical merit" and "presentation", with the latter being the origin of the German term.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (10 November 2019 - 02:32 AM)

Huh. I did not know before today that "medieval" had an alternate spelling "mediaeval". Like "paleontology" and "palaeontology".

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 November 2019 - 04:15 PM)

'Beast Wars in underrated' the comment went. I exploded.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (09 November 2019 - 02:19 PM)

Absolutely.

@  wonko the sane? : (09 November 2019 - 02:14 PM)

So... you can look like a cop from the 70's AND a huge nerd at the same time?

@  PlutoniumBoss : (09 November 2019 - 02:09 PM)

I feel like the best way to carry the Switch would be an under-arm torso holster.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (09 November 2019 - 12:31 PM)

It's not. hell. If the 3DS zelda case just stretched a LITTLE more it would fit.

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 November 2019 - 03:38 AM)

I feel like the Switch Lite is a bit big to have hanging on your belt like that, but I don't take my Switch out with me often anyway.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (09 November 2019 - 01:13 AM)

I must be the only one who wants a switch lite case with a belt loop. o.O

@  TheMightyMol... : (08 November 2019 - 03:03 PM)

I'm gonna have "Chainsaw Buffet" and "Candy For the Cannibal" by Lordi playing in my head all night.

@  Maximus Ambus : (08 November 2019 - 12:36 PM)

Trick or treaters can only consent to cannibalism in Germania.

@  Sabrblade : (07 November 2019 - 12:12 PM)

Hey, if the trick or treaters can't take some loving insults, that's their problem.

@  Arazyr : (07 November 2019 - 11:39 AM)

Just make sure to put the leftovers in the fridge, so they don't get spoiled.

@  wonko the sane? : (07 November 2019 - 11:10 AM)

I love children... but I can never eat a whole one.

@  TheMightyMol... : (07 November 2019 - 09:52 AM)

I can neither confirm nor deny this allegation.

@  Paladin : (07 November 2019 - 09:46 AM)

...you don't roast the trick or treaters, do you....

@  wonko the sane? : (07 November 2019 - 09:38 AM)

A cold beer, a warm fire, some smores and trick or treaters... Man, you got this life thing down.

@  wonko the sane? : (07 November 2019 - 09:37 AM)

That actually sounds pretty awesome.

@  MEDdMI : (07 November 2019 - 08:59 AM)

we'll move to the open garage if it's raining

@  MEDdMI : (07 November 2019 - 08:58 AM)

every Halloween since we got a house, TMM and I chill in the driveway with a fire bowl and roast things while handing out candy. It's pretty great.

@  Maximus Ambus : (07 November 2019 - 03:42 AM)

Peter Cullen voiced King Kong let that sink in.

@  TM2-Megatron : (06 November 2019 - 11:42 PM)

I've noticed that after a year or two, though, people with children will start getting into it for their kids

@  TM2-Megatron : (06 November 2019 - 11:41 PM)

I think a lot of the decline you see in Halloween is due to newcomers to Canada who don't really get it... I mean,there are only a handful of countries in the world that practice this particular oddity

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (06 November 2019 - 12:29 PM)

I recently attended a talk on Samhain and its associated mythology by a professor from Limerick.

@  Otaku : (06 November 2019 - 11:49 AM)

Trunk or Treats have become more popular because it is supposed to be safer, and even if it isn't, it just tends to be easier for the Trick-or-Treaters.

@  wonko the sane? : (06 November 2019 - 11:00 AM)

That's okay: between ever more extreme weather, ever more violent society, and general paranoia of parents: halloweens not doing to well out here either.

@  Anonymous X : (06 November 2019 - 09:30 AM)

We used to have Bonfire Night here in the UK as our thing instead of Halloween... It's withered away for the most part. Halloween used to be the strange American tradition you knew of from ET or various cartoons

@  TheMightyMol... : (06 November 2019 - 06:33 AM)

So that's why I never get invited anywhere.

@  Otaku : (05 November 2019 - 12:36 PM)

@Bass X0 Are we talking about the quality of the costumes or their subject matter?  The former is a natural result of cosplay growing less and less niche over the decades.  The latter isn't new; mass produced stuff is at least as old as you or I and are we sure no one dressed as a cowboy or astronaut or whatever in the 1950's?  Monsters weren't allowed at certain parties, strange as it sounds. XP

@  Benbot : (05 November 2019 - 12:23 PM)

is the quick reply broken for anyone else or is it just me?


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Discworld-The Watch


13 replies to this topic

#1 Trpodeca

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:49 PM

BBC America has released a press release, listing the main cast.

 

 

The eight-part comedy-drama,that gleefully rips up the genre rulebook, follows several of Terry Pratchett’s best-loved creations on a riotous and emotional odyssey. Richard Dormer will star as Sam Vimes, Captain of The Watch, disempowered by a broken society that’s reduced his department’s jurisdiction to almost nothing. Jo Eaton-Kent will play the ingenious non-binary forensics expert Constable Cheery, ostracised by their kin and finding a new home and identity within The Watch. Adam Hugill will play Constable Carrot, the idealistic new recruit, raised by dwarfs, but really a human abandoned at birth. Marama Corlett will play the mysterious Corporal Angua who is tasked with Carrot’s training and keeping the rookie alive. Lara Rossi will play the formidable Lady Sybil Ramkin, last scion of Ankh-Morpork’s nobility who’s trying to fix the city’s wrongs with her chaotic vigilantism. Sam Adewunmi will play the wounded, wronged Carcer Dun, out to hijack destiny itself, take control of the city and exact a terrible revenge on an unjust reality.

 

 

I find half of this kind of questionable. I guess we'll have to wait for it to come out.
 
 

I sure wish I hadn't misspelt my username.....


#2 GodSentinelOmega

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:14 AM

Honestly, i agree here. This sounds like a weird, mashup of bits and pieces of Terry Pratchetts City Watch stories, while also trying to be some kind of social commentary, i think. I can't say i'm enthused by this.

Making Cheery non-binary, rather than a Dwarf woman trying to express herself is? Making Sybil a... social activist?

And no mention of Nobby Nobbs and Colon. No mention of Detritus or Vetinari.

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#3 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 05:29 AM


Pretty much all of Terry Pratchett's books are absolutely social commentary. That's not all they are. They're also beautifully written and conceived, fun and funny but they are all that and very strong Social Commentary. Nothing wrong or off target about that at all.

That doesn't mean this is gonna be on-target to the characters and as well written as his stuff was of course, but the presence of Social Commentary as a part of it absolutely will not be what misses the mark on being good Pratchett if it does.

-ZacWilliam, can't imagine Pratchett without Social Commentary honestly, expressed with humor and cleverness it's kinda the core of what his writing is.
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#4 GodSentinelOmega

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 07:34 AM

Expressed with humour and cleverness is my only concern here. Pratchetts sharp, satirical writing is what made his imaginative Discworld great.

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#5 Creature SH

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 08:34 AM

We'll see how this goes. Worst case, it's gonna be garbage and cancelled after a season. Best case, it's either a faithful adaptation and update to Pratchet's concepts or its own, worthwhile thing. Let's not forget, his work is an iteration of and play on fantasy tropes that had been put out by other writers. Can't exactly be mad at other people iterating on that.

 

Either way, Discworld is easily gonna survive this.


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#6 Locoman

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:38 PM

Isn't making Cheery nonbinary kind, of, like the exact opposite of Discworld canon, where traditionalist dwarfs are socially agender but all use male pronouns for cultural reasons?



#7 Creature SH

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 06:53 PM

Yeah, but "woman who is ostracized for being femme" is kind of a bad take in today's climate. 


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#8 Fero McPigletron

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 06:31 AM

Can't wait for it! Hope Carrot lives up to his supposed lineage.

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#9 SwiftEagle

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 08:51 AM

Murderous tyrants?
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#10 Rhinox

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 10:45 AM

Those sound like changes made just to make it easier to tell the story they want.  I'm okay with that, provided it's cleverly written and smartly acted.  

Pratchett has always used his books and Discworld to comment on our world and what's going on.  I absolutely expect this show to follow that and make strong points about what's going on in politics and the world today.  In fact, without that I think the show, no matter how well written, will be a failure. 


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#11 Fero McPigletron

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 11:11 PM

Murderous tyrants?


What? No! Haha :) I'm a bit miffed that he was suppose to be the hero of the City Watch but Vines was too good a character and hijacked the spotlight from him.

Sybil Ramkin was always an activist. But for the preservation of the dragons, hehe

... I know the name Carcer Dun but I'm forgetting... Is he the one who travelled back in time and tried to mess up Ankh Morpork history?

If the series will be adapting the Nightwatch... then only Vines goes back to chase him. But I guess Sybil, Cheery, Angua and Carrot follow too, for a well rounded cast. That would explain why there's no Detritus, Nobbs, Colon since we'd see younger versions of some.

Personally, Feat of Clay is my favorite City Watch book. Dorfl's moment makes me tear up when I read it. Plus it's a Terminator parody. It'd be awesome.

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   TOY DRAMA THEATER!

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#12 chiasaur11

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 12:47 AM

 


... I know the name Carcer Dun but I'm forgetting... Is he the one who travelled back in time and tried to mess up Ankh Morpork history?

 

 

Yep.

 

And the phrase "Wounded, wronged" raises all the alarm bells. Original flavor Carcer was a bastard, sure as sure. He tries to play the wronged man, but Vimes doesn't give him an inch there. Carcer is a flat out monster, the kind of man where you feel the sun shining just a little brighter after you hear that he was hanged. Making him a righteous avenger who goes too far ignores the whole point of the character.

 

And he isn't alone on that list. I mean, some of it may just be a bad press release, and some may actually work in practice, but there's a lot changed from that description, and it all sounds bad. Sybil in the original would never be a vigilante. Just not done, you know? She's more the barge in through the front door and start loudly ordering people around type, the kind of person who uses her place in the system to do good instead of the kind of person who feels the need to get outside of it. 

 

(Which is thematically important, as the whole keeping within the law bit is important to the Watch books, contrasting with Moist and Vetinari's fast and loose play.)

 

Even things that aren't necessarily bad, like Angua being more veteran than Carrot, put me on edge. Colon, Vimes, and Nobby being The Old Guard (with Carrot as the tipping point) is vital to their dynamic. Giving Vimes a competent right hand before Carrot shows up to drag everyone out of the gutter is a tricky thing to balance. (In addition, Angua arriving later makes it much easier for her and Vimes to feel distinct. If the old guard has two decent-but-cynical veteran officers who need to relearn idealism from Carrot at the same time... again, tricky.)

 

Moving on to broader strokes though, and leaving aside casting for the moment (Skinny Sybil. Just... skinny Sybil.) people talking about how Pratchett's stuff was political are kind of right and wrong at once, and ignoring the trick there would mean the show going very wrong. See, a cool bit in the Discworld stuff was that Pratchett didn't do real world issues, at least not when he was on his A game. He did similar-but-distinct issues, allowing people to set aside their normal prejudices and allowing him to get into the nitty gritty instead of just saying that thing X is bad repeatedly. For an easy example, Vimes can be racist against Vampires and still be sympathetic in a way that he wouldn't be if he was racist against a real world ethnic group. It generally felt like Pratchett examining an idea rather than just lecturing the reader, even if he had clear opinions on things.

 

A lot of modern fiction (not naming names) feels like it's just trying to score points by showing how On The Right Side they are, which makes for bad stories.




#13 Fero McPigletron

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 03:39 AM

That was well put. Oh yeah, I forgot that Angua will be more experienced than Carrot, weird.

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   TOY DRAMA THEATER!

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Episodes here


#14 GodSentinelOmega

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 12:04 PM

That explains far more effectively and better clarity, the misgivings i have with how this series might tackle the way Pratchett tackled things and how it could miss the mark.

One of the greatest things about Pratchetts writing was, as chiasaur said, how he could grapple with and show you the hard realities of tough subjects, without preaching. His brought those tough subjects up in his world, in ways that applied to his world, but never in a blunt way.

Anyway.

Skinny Sybil? Oh good grief. That misses one of the great parts of what makes Sybil great. She a powerful, uncompromising force of nature and has faced down a giant Dragon! She is no vigilante.

Carcer as wronged man is definitely missing the point. He is, as Pratchett wrote in Night Watch, a man who can stood in the middle of the bodies, covered in blood, knife in hand and go "Me, what did i do?". He is not a righteous man, nor should he ever be.

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