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@  SG Roadbuster : (08 August 2020 - 01:53 PM)

@Nevermore yes.

@  Nevermore : (08 August 2020 - 09:11 AM)

Is $30 a good deal for Subscription Service Breakdown?

@  Trpodeca : (08 August 2020 - 06:24 AM)

Oh dear God no. Twitter has changed it's default layout to the terrible new one. Why waste so much space on the left?

@  Steevy Maximus : (07 August 2020 - 08:28 PM)

@Bass X0, yeah, the Joe comic got REALLY solid in the upper 20s to the Cobra Civil War. It's interesting to see how well the Joe comic has aged relative to the cartoon. Where as I feel the opposite is true of Transformers

@  -LittleAutob... : (07 August 2020 - 03:58 PM)

Its so fun watching past TF Conventions.

@  Bass X0 : (07 August 2020 - 02:20 PM)

I've been reading classic 80s G.I. Joe lately. Its still decent even though I don't have any nostalgia towards it.

@  Sabrblade : (07 August 2020 - 08:50 AM)

Think of it as Adam West Batman instead. ;)

@  wonko the sane? : (07 August 2020 - 07:49 AM)

That sounds more like the flash, or maybe booster gold than batman.

@  Sabrblade : (07 August 2020 - 12:27 AM)

They would get bored fighting each other and instead decide to take an epic cross-country road trip together.

@  RichardT1977 : (06 August 2020 - 08:57 PM)

What would happen if Batman were to fight Squirrel Girl?

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 09:03 PM)

Unless you count the Mask vs Lobo special, but that's less a duel and more a duet.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 08:52 PM)

My favorite crossover fight was Thor vs Shazam/Captain Marvel. Early in the fight, Thor discovers that Billy Batson needs lightning to transform, and being a god of lightning he simply denies him that.

@  Sabrblade : (04 August 2020 - 08:46 PM)

Let's see a fight between Death Battle and Super Power Beat Down

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

Which Lobo later claimed was because he was paid to take a dive. Yes, really.

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

And then there's the times it's been decided by a fan vote, which is how we get things like Lobo (who can go toe-to-toe with Superman at full strength) losing to Wolverine.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

And then there are the "but my favorite characater will totes win because I say so" people.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

I mean, there are some people who really approach this from a somewhat reasonable standpoint, coming up with a plausible scenario and a setting that creates a fair environment that doesn't favor one character.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:46 PM)

My favorite stupid "why would they even fight each other" question recently was about three versions of Optimus Prime (G1, Bayverse and Aligned).

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:45 PM)

Batman obviously can beat everyone. Even Galactus. He's Batman. He's so smart, he'll just throw a Batarang and hit the weak spot at Galactus's forehead, knocking him out instantaneously.

@  wonko the sane? : (04 August 2020 - 11:37 AM)

It's almost like all drama is just manufactured pissing contests to keep us all entertained and distracted. :p

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (04 August 2020 - 10:16 AM)

Or they could go White Ranger vs Scorpion route and have both win. ;P

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Besides, we all know the answer is nearly always "they fight to a standstill and then team up against a common enemy."

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:29 AM)

The best way to prove this is to give an example where the match is really lopsided in favor of one character but in popularity they're either evenly matched or the weaker one is more popular.

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:27 AM)

The "who would win in a fight" discussions are really just people trying to make "which one's better" into something you can theoretically measure objectively, usually in a very specific way they think they've predetermined their favorite will win.

@  Otaku : (04 August 2020 - 02:01 AM)

@Nevermore So... you're saying you didn't like DC Versus Marvel/Marvel Versus DC?

@  Steevy Maximus : (03 August 2020 - 06:59 PM)

So, what happened to Hasbro's Zoids relaunch? An English dub, some stuff in southeast Asia, and now a game coming in October? That it?

@  wonko the sane? : (03 August 2020 - 10:46 AM)

Tidal wave, cause shooting water gets you nowhere.

@  Darth Gonzo : (03 August 2020 - 09:57 AM)

Who would win Tidal Wave or Broadside?

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 August 2020 - 08:17 AM)

Btw Happy birthday to those people in the box to the right \o/

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 August 2020 - 08:16 AM)

The bottom line is obvious. It makes no literal sense to fight someone on your faction. :/

@  wonko the sane? : (03 August 2020 - 06:14 AM)

That's because you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to just stack skills and ability against each other. It's not the palace of doom, it's an episode of american gladiators.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:32 AM)

The only obvious winners of such a fight would be the bad guys.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:29 AM)

And what does it even matter? They should work together, not stupidly fight each other for the mindless entertainment of idiot onlookers.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:29 AM)

Why would two good guys fight each other? What are they fighting over?

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:28 AM)

I never understood these "who would win in a fight between two good guys" discussions. They make no sense to me.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 August 2020 - 04:17 PM)

If G1 had continued we'd have had Starscream back in spirit - through Krunk, Snapdragons partner and possibly Skullcruncher unless he was mute.

@  Bass X0 : (02 August 2020 - 12:28 PM)

There are some decent impersonators in fandubs though.

@  -LittleAutob... : (02 August 2020 - 10:45 AM)

The only true Starscream voices are Steve Blum and Chris Latta, hands down.

@  Sabrblade : (02 August 2020 - 10:14 AM)

Why they didn't have Scott McNeil voicing that Starscream, when he was the one who had imitated Chris Latta when he voiced Cobra Commander in the DiC G.I. Joe cartoon, is beyond me.

@  wonko the sane? : (02 August 2020 - 09:57 AM)

Say what you will, that was an awesome scene.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 August 2020 - 08:36 AM)

Beast Wars Starsream "I am AIR COMMANDER Starscream of the DECEPTICON BATTLEFLEET!"

@  Nevermore : (02 August 2020 - 07:02 AM)

I liked TF: Prime Starscream.

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 August 2020 - 08:36 PM)

Hearing Starscream's screechy voice in Cyberverse has to be the most annoying thing ever in Transformers. Even his G1 voice wasn't as bad. :doh

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 August 2020 - 08:35 PM)

KUP!

@  Sabrblade : (01 August 2020 - 04:58 PM)

Urkel!

@  TheMightyMol... : (01 August 2020 - 03:16 PM)

Steeeeeeeeve.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (01 August 2020 - 02:57 AM)

LEEEROOOOOOOOY! jhenkenz...

@  Hg Dragon : (01 August 2020 - 01:21 AM)

Candleja-

@  Sabrblade : (31 July 2020 - 11:02 PM)

Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice!

@  Echowarrior : (31 July 2020 - 10:18 PM)

Spongebob!


Photo
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Family ties and reproduction in Transformers


120 replies to this topic

#1 Roddie Luver

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:15 AM

It was strange, but I find it cute.
 
Edit: Original title referred to Decepticon families in Japanese TF media, merged with a related thread about constructing cold. -- Copper
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#2 DocChloroplast

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 11:18 AM

In general, I'm just not a fan of the whole "Transformers bang it out organic-style and make 'sparklets'" idea; personally, I prefer Vector Sigma/hot spot or other spark-emergent types of "procreation". The implication of Decepticon "families" lent itself to the former idea, so meh. Nothing against Transformers/Cybertronians going through growth stages, though.

 

Transformers having spouses is fine, but the whole "men out doing a fight so the ladies can stay home and tend to the kids" is a very '50s attitude that even in the 80s/early 90s was a very questionable choice.


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#3 tec

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 11:57 AM

The what??


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#4 Sabrblade

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 12:01 PM

I've no issues with the concept of Cybertronian families/spouses/children/etc., so long as it's not done in any off-putting way.

 

Transformers having spouses is fine, but the whole "men out doing a fight so the ladies can stay home and tend to the kids" is a very '50s attitude that even in the 80s/early 90s was a very questionable choice.

Oh, but see, since the space fortress turned out to be a space city, that means that while the men were off fighting in their silly war, the women and children were in the city running the government, the law enforcement departments, the financial offices, the emergency services, the educational institutes, the economy, and basically running the society and civilization all on their own. ;)


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#5 Jalaguy

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 12:12 PM

In their original context, they were stupid in the same way that what Takara did with Arcee in the Headmasters cartoon was stupid, but I'm all for them being salvaged by modern writers.

#6 Roddie Luver

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 02:04 PM

In general, I'm just not a fan of the whole "Transformers bang it out organic-style and make 'sparklets'" idea; personally, I prefer Vector Sigma/hot spot or other spark-emergent types of "procreation". The implication of Decepticon "families" lent itself to the former idea, so meh. Nothing against Transformers/Cybertronians going through growth stages, though.
 
Transformers having spouses is fine, but the whole "men out doing a fight so the ladies can stay home and tend to the kids" is a very '50s attitude that even in the 80s/early 90s was a very questionable choice.

Eh, we don't know how they came to be. They could've been built. It may have not been organic style. I don't mind sparklings, but I do mind pregnancy.

In their original context, they were stupid in the same way that what Takara did with Arcee in the Headmasters cartoon was stupid, but I'm all for them being salvaged by modern writers.


I'm the mix. I find child transformers cute, but yet stupid. Mostly cute.
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#7 SG Roadbuster

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 02:07 PM

Headcanon time: the destron fortress was a Titan. Esmeral is the Cityspeaker. and the Dinobabies are freshly forged from the Hotspot.



#8 HellCat

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 02:15 PM

Takara saw Carly's degree and took it to mean 'Makes Incredible Tea'.



#9 SHIELD Agent 47

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 03:38 PM

Relative to the main question of the thread, I have a somewhat indifferent to negative response to the depiction of Cybertronian families and babies. I got into Transformers for the sake of Cybertronians being a metallic, mechanical species distinct from humans. If I want to see organic processes and culture, I will look elsewhere, like in Game of Thrones.

 

The what??

 

https://tfwiki.net/w...The_Victory_War

 

In the final chapter of the 1989-1990 Victory comic, Star Saber led the Cybertrons to decisive victory over the Destrons, at which point the defeated Destrons begged for their fortress base not to be destroyed because their civilian families were all inside. We are led to believe that Deathsaurus's forces went on their campaign of galactic conquest, pillaging, and destruction for the sake of helping their families.

 

I suppose if you think about it, most conqueror nations in history worked somewhere along those lines. Inherently selfish people want to preserve their own legacy as they see fit in a world they perceive to have finite resources and/or space for egos. I believe there is an aphorism from Legend of the Galactic Heroes about "evil" being a relative concept when adversarial sentients fight for their own perspective of "good".


Edited by SHIELD Agent 47, 01 February 2019 - 03:54 PM.


#10 Roddie Luver

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 05:09 PM

Why should only carbon base life forms have a family? I can't see why they can't have a family. I mean they are living beings too. Would they go through pregnancy to have childern or lay eggs? No(and I hope not), but I don't see the problem with them having a family. Fyi, we aren't the only living beings to allow to have a family. The whole family thing shouldn't be the main thing in Transformers, but this type of stuff irks me. People seem to forget that Cybertronians are not or not just war machines. I get they're suppose to be different from us, but that still doesn't mean they can't have a family. I see no excuse for them not have a family. Any reason you give will not work ( people tried that with me last time). I'm a very stubborn person. I think they can have a family and still be different from us. Maybe they raise their family/kids different from ours. Idk

Edited by Roddie Luver, 01 February 2019 - 05:26 PM.

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#11 Locoman

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 05:47 PM

I'm not really a fan of excessive humanization, but if Transformers have to have families, I'm more in favor of a twin relationship where a protoform or spark divides at birth, or at the very most some kind of "protoform batch" that a young Transformer spends their formative years with.

#12 Salt-Man Z

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 05:53 PM

I find child transformers cute, but yet stupid. Mostly cute.

Just like human children.
"Here is light. You will say that it is not a living entity, but you miss the point that it is more, not less. Without occupying space, it fills the universe. It nourishes everything, yet itself feeds upon destruction. We claim to control it, but does it not perhaps cultivate us as a source of food? May it not be that all wood grows so that it can be set ablaze, and that men and women are born to kindle fires?"
―Gene Wolfe, The Citadel of the Autarch

#13 Roddie Luver

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 05:58 PM

I'm not really a fan of excessive humanization, but if Transformers have to have families, I'm more in favor of a twin relationship where a protoform or spark divides at birth, or at the very most some kind of "protoform batch" that a young Transformer spends their formative years with.

I like that.

I find child transformers cute, but yet stupid. Mostly cute.

Just like human children.
Yup. They probably scream and smell like dirty oil. Maybe that's why we don't see them. Most, if not all cons eat them and autobots and NAIL put them in statis. :)

Edited by Roddie Luver, 01 February 2019 - 06:02 PM.

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#14 NightViper

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 06:35 PM

I mean with Wingsverse and SG I think it's obvious that I like them :p Of course I tried to change the context a little bit - especially with Esmeral - but I don't have a problem with civilian love interests at home for the fighting men and women. It's especially interesting for making a new twist in the Decepticons' fighting for something other than themselves.

I'm cool with the kiddo robots too. But I've never been one obsessed with explaining the ins and outs of how that's possible. I mean they're alien robots created by their own robot deity by means of some magical energy force pulsing inside of them. I don't need to pretend that anything about them makes sense or that I'd be able to understand it if explained. They duplicate organic family bonds for us to find emotional connection with them, but hug all of that means anything else needs to reflect biology as our little brains can interpret.

Edited by NightViper, 01 February 2019 - 06:36 PM.


#15 Roddie Luver

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 06:48 PM

I mean with Wingsverse and SG I think it's obvious that I like them :p Of course I tried to change the context a little bit - especially with Esmeral - but I don't have a problem with civilian love interests at home for the fighting men and women. It's especially interesting for making a new twist in the Decepticons' fighting for something other than themselves.
I'm cool with the kiddo robots too. But I've never been one obsessed with explaining the ins and outs of how that's possible. I mean they're alien robots created by their own robot deity by means of some magical energy force pulsing inside of them. I don't need to pretend that anything about them makes sense or that I'd be able to understand it if explained. They duplicate organic family bonds for us to find emotional connection with them, but hug all of that means anything else needs to reflect biology as our little brains can interpret.

Agreed. We don't need to know it's done.
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#16 RichardT1977

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 07:05 PM

I presume they make babies the way the characters of Robots did.

 

https://youtu.be/9bwLzGzkSFI



#17 Roddie Luver

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 07:19 PM

I presume they make babies the way the characters of Robots did.
 
https://youtu.be/9bwLzGzkSFI

Tramp would say: No they have to get down and dirty to have babies. If you don't know Tramp, he's a guy who believes that Transformers sexually reproducing is canon. His reason is that you wouldn't build a helpless baby. I agreed with that, that's why I believe that child transformers would be around 5-6 at the start of their life.
That's the age where kids are a semi independent. I see 10-11 the maxuim.

Edited by Roddie Luver, 01 February 2019 - 09:22 PM.

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#18 Twilight Noisemaze

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:01 PM

The concept doesnt really bother me, its one of the the things in this franchise where ya gotta go well thats that lol...but as far as toys go Id love a deluxe Lyzack & a voyager/leader Esmeral. Id always imagine she would be fairly high in the Decepticon hierarchy, I imagine her talking in almost a calm motherly tone befor springing a trap on her enemies or inflicting some horrible yet creative punishment on her minions for failure.

#19 LV!

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:32 PM

Surely there are better things to do with female characters than resurrect some nobodies who are literally just What If He Was A Girl Though.



#20 NightViper

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:53 PM

With all the dudes that are brothers because they look like the same toy, I'm okay with Lyzack and Leozack.

 

Esmeral is a little more iffy on that regard, but I do like her character design in its own right. So I'd like to see it come back... though preferably with no or at least changed connection to Deathsaurus.





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