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@  NotVeryKnightly : (19 July 2019 - 01:17 PM)

It seems like, with these kind of things, anything not TF-specific is either in an existing thread or just not discussed since they're not part of something deemed important enough to get its own thread already.

@  Benbot : (19 July 2019 - 12:45 PM)

Yeah, but it's for Transformers specifically

@  Gryllid : (19 July 2019 - 12:39 PM)

There is. It's called "SDCC 2019 thread"

@  Benbot : (19 July 2019 - 12:24 PM)

no general SDCC thread?

@  Benbot : (19 July 2019 - 12:08 PM)

I never even bothered to see it.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (19 July 2019 - 10:30 AM)

O never hated it, the whole thing was an Indiana Jones movie. I didn't care for the CGI, but that's just nature of the beast.

@  Paladin : (19 July 2019 - 07:58 AM)

sidebar- has enough time passed that we can stop irrationally hating "Crystal Skull" yet?

@  Telly : (18 July 2019 - 09:18 PM)

after 38 years and i dont know how many viewings, today is the first time i noticed indiana jones doesnt use a revolver in the bar fight in raiders...

@  Kalidor : (18 July 2019 - 05:33 PM)

@Sabrblade Depends on when you're here. I used to have the backups happen once daily, now I have them happen once per hour so you might often see a hesitation at the top of every hour for 30-45 seconds.

@  Locoman : (18 July 2019 - 05:11 PM)

isn't that just Modern Family

@  Foffy : (18 July 2019 - 04:45 PM)

that's right. my gym teacher is a clown. new series coming to disney channel next fall

@  Foffy : (18 July 2019 - 04:44 PM)

all these clowns are making me run really fast.

@  Sabrblade : (18 July 2019 - 12:10 PM)

All this awesome SDCC news is really making these boards run slowly.

@  Bass X0 : (18 July 2019 - 07:54 AM)

Racism must be stopped. No matter the cost.

@  MEDdMI : (18 July 2019 - 07:49 AM)

Tine to stop buttering it up.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (17 July 2019 - 09:43 PM)

Well shucks.

@  ▲ndrusi : (17 July 2019 - 08:14 PM)

The joke is a husk of its former self.

@  Paladin : (17 July 2019 - 01:15 PM)

Pop.

@  Shrug : (17 July 2019 - 10:15 AM)

Something something... corn bread?

@  MEDdMI : (17 July 2019 - 07:21 AM)

Ok, ok. Enough of the puns and let's all thank Kal for the amaizeing job he did.

@  Paladin : (17 July 2019 - 06:24 AM)

by now I think this jokes' been creamed.

@  Nevermore : (17 July 2019 - 03:31 AM)

The kernel.

@  Nevermore : (17 July 2019 - 03:31 AM)

Who gives the orders in cybernetic warfare?

@  unluckiness : (16 July 2019 - 09:59 PM)

Zea mays

@  Xellos : (16 July 2019 - 09:53 PM)

Isn't that a kernel of truth.

@  Paladin : (16 July 2019 - 08:43 PM)

huh. suddenly the Squawk is popping.

@  TheMightyMol... : (16 July 2019 - 07:47 PM)

Not placing much stalk in this conversation.

@  Nevermore : (16 July 2019 - 06:22 PM)

That's so corny.

@  Shrug : (16 July 2019 - 06:07 PM)

It's absurd how happy I am that a post of mine made the front page of Reddit.

@  TheMightyMol... : (16 July 2019 - 05:46 PM)

Aww, shucks.

@  TriBlurr : (16 July 2019 - 05:45 PM)

Not till I taste the corn

@  Kalidor : (16 July 2019 - 05:43 PM)

You guys aren't being very nice. You're supposed to tell me I did "good, really good!"

@  TheMightyMol... : (16 July 2019 - 05:40 PM)

Just don't go beyond the rows.

@  Patch : (16 July 2019 - 05:39 PM)

Left over from the failed Beast Machines sequel, Beast Farmers

@  Patch : (16 July 2019 - 05:39 PM)

It's techno-organic corn

@  TriBlurr : (16 July 2019 - 05:26 PM)

We have a cornfield? Can I get a few ears?

@  Kalidor : (16 July 2019 - 12:56 PM)

And lastly, if it becomes too much hassle to deal with - it might just get sent into the cornfield and replaced with a Discord box anyway. So cool it.

@  Kalidor : (16 July 2019 - 12:55 PM)

Second thing is we do actually have the ability to ban users specifically from using Shoutbox if it's being abused like that

@  Kalidor : (16 July 2019 - 12:55 PM)

Hey all - just a reminder and heads up. The Shoutbox has been kept here as a courtesy because it's what you folks like in lieu of Discord - but a few things to remember is that P&R should stay in P&R and isn't really something that needs to be dragged out here in the most public of spaces.

@  Nevermore : (16 July 2019 - 11:04 AM)

Done.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (16 July 2019 - 10:25 AM)

You can make a new one. I doubt anybody would stop you.

@  Nevermore : (16 July 2019 - 10:16 AM)

There was a thread but it appears to have disappeared. Might have been lost in one of the older forum sweeps.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (16 July 2019 - 09:58 AM)

Yeah this is pretty much circumventing the fact that we have different rules for political talk.

@  fourteenwings : (16 July 2019 - 09:55 AM)

Okay, so, basically, can we not do politics in here anymore? I mean, considering how often @Nevermore, you talk about your work conditions, don't you think it's time for a dedicated thread in P&R?

@  unluckiness : (16 July 2019 - 09:39 AM)

Scratch that; that's insulting to honest salads. Whatever that was was the text equivalent of hamburger.

@  unluckiness : (16 July 2019 - 09:38 AM)

Would you like some dressing to go with your word salad?

@  Paladin : (16 July 2019 - 09:34 AM)

yes; it now goes "shit piss hug *BLEEP* ^$@^ motherhuger **** turd fart encyclopedia & Socialism."

@  unluckiness : (16 July 2019 - 09:24 AM)

This is an American site, but isn't that unnecessarily severe language? IIRC it's one of the top four offensive pejoratives to English people

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (16 July 2019 - 08:52 AM)

It's amusing how so many (U.S.) wankers in this world love to whine "capitalism good socialism bad!" in the abstract while simultaneously pretending that megacorporations dominating de facto monopolies is anathema to the core capitalistic principle of competition benefits everyone.

@  unluckiness : (16 July 2019 - 05:17 AM)

I know Shockwave's super mode is pretty lame and Magnus is kinda greebly but it's not that bad.


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The Vok, Swarm, and Earth: What the hell happened?

Vok Earth Humanity Swarm Beast Era G2 Wings Universe Marvel

117 replies to this topic

#1 That One Guy

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 11:34 PM

How exactly do the Vok, Swarm, and Earth relate to one another in the context of the Beast Era? Early concepts involving the Vok depicted them as an evolved version of the Swarm that ended up destroying Earth and it's sector of space, causing the Maximal High Council to ban travel to and from the area. While this never made it into Beast Wars, the Swarm is referenced in Primeval Dawn, as well as the One. As for Earth, the assumed reason for the ban was to keep time traveling warmongerers away and preserve history, although this is (as far as I know) pure assumption.

Wings Universe, the Marvel G2 comics, and Primeval Dawn all involved the Swarm somehow, but the specifics are anyone's guess. Primeval Dawn posits the idea that the Vok wish to atone for their past sins as the Swarm by guiding Earth to Utopia, although given that history did not unfold that way, how would the Vok ever believe this is a good idea and totally not doomed to fail even though it already did? Unless their plan was to rewrite all of history with an enormous time storm, although that would also destroy everything they did and the entirety of the Beast Era. My head hurts.

So I ask the community, how do all these pieces fit? Is there a logical explanation for how this all works (that doesn't destroy history many times over and create a big paradox), or are the Vok just a vague concept doomed to make little sense? Until further notice, I'm going with the idea that the entire solar system is in a quantum lock due to the constant threats of history being rewritten while it's happening and already did happen (think what Doctor Who did with the Time War. Seal it all away to preserve reality).

Edited by That ONE Guy, 29 December 2018 - 11:37 PM.


#2 Sabrblade

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:44 AM

are the Vok just a vague concept doomed to make little sense?

 

LgtRAqk.jpg

 

 

I'll leave it to Vector Prime with this one:

Dear Vociferous Vok Vagrant,

 
The Vok are strange and mysterious creatures, with motives opaque to outsiders, even myself. They swim in the streams of time and reality like oxide sharks in a rust sea, navigating the waters of existence with ease. Decoding what they know, why the act, may well prove impossible. Even their origins are shrouded in mystery; are they the future of humanity, hyper-evolved and free of the constraints of linear space/time? The Swarm, made ascendant? Those Who Came Before, who survived the birthpangs of the multiverse? Perhaps all of the above and more, for the multiverse is indeed vast.

Edited by Sabrblade, 30 December 2018 - 12:45 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#3 NightViper

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:51 AM

The Vok manipulate Transformers lore and interfere in the lives of Cybertronians in ways that fit their ever-fluctuating whims. They build entire worlds just to watch when they tear them down. And go back to do it again. They grant individuals powers and life then take it away.

The Vok are all of us. Playing with our Transformers toys.


Edited by NightViper, 30 December 2018 - 09:19 AM.


#4 LV!

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 11:26 AM

whats going on here VOK, I thought the mission was to be mild,this is too extreme, surly unicron will awaken.


#5 Kup

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:40 PM

I remember reading that the Vok were intended to be attempting to atone for wiping out Earth during G2.

Assume for a minute thats true, wouldnt it be fanfic-cool if the Marvel G1/G2 came first, then the Vok go back in time, the Beast Wars happen, and this sets in motion the Sunbow G1. Sort of a Star Trek 09 reboot, so to speak.

I wonder if this idea was ever thrown out on ATT or other message boards before I got back into the fandom in 99...?

Edited by Kup, 30 December 2018 - 12:41 PM.

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#6 MidnightFox

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 02:33 PM

Nothing involving or comparable to Abrams Trek can be classified as "cool".

#7 That One Guy

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:54 PM

Assume for a minute thats true, wouldnt it be fanfic-cool if the Marvel G1/G2 came first, then the Vok go back in time, the Beast Wars happen, and this sets in motion the Sunbow G1. Sort of a Star Trek 09 reboot, so to speak.
I wonder if this idea was ever thrown out on ATT or other message boards before I got back into the fandom in 99...?

Not a bad theory. That explanation could allow Furman's personal canon timeline for the Beast Era (G1,G2, BW, and RtOP) all have happened, and then have the Vok reset reality, letting the more Sunbow oriented Beast Era (G1 cartoon, DoFP, BW, BM, the Wreckers, and Universe) happen as well, resolving any discrepancies. The more comic based stuff could be pre-Vok, the cartoon based fiction post-Vok. I suppose Primeval Dawn would be difficult to place, though since it leads into the Wreckers, I suppose it would be post-Vok, with the Vok simply alluding to what they did/plan to do (it's all wibbly wobbly timey wimey).

EDIT: As another thought, perhaps the inconsistencies between the Marvel based fiction and Sunbow based fiction are the result of the Vok constantly rewriting history as it's happening, so all of the events occuring are 'true' to some extent, but then rendered paradoxical at the same time due to future (or past) edits to the timeline. So in a way, the Marvel and Sunbow backstories are both true at the same time, making neither true and producing an ever shifting blend until one version is settled on.


The Vok are all of us. Playing with our Transformers toys.

This.

Edited by That ONE Guy, 30 December 2018 - 04:09 PM.


#8 That One Guy

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:58 PM

As an alternative theory, maybe the Vok are the in-multiverse forms of the writers, all powerful and all knowing beings that shape everything and have motives indecipherable to the rest of creation, because they are the makers of creation. Any conflicting origins or motives can be explained as multiple writers (Vok) butting heads over continuity, forever trying to out-fanwank the other in an endless game that constantly alters the lore forever.

#9 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:39 PM

Beast Wars was made up as it went along. Bob and Larry never knew at the end of each season if there would be another one. NONE of the G1 tie-in stuff was planned until they found ATT and learned about it.

The Vok were particularly made-up-as-it-went-along. Bob and Larry never even really agreed among themselves what they were supposed to be.

And what little author intentist backstory we've gotten is stupid. The Vok blew up Earth a million times and recreated it every time but were afraid of Megatron blowing it up because flerpty flerp. Stuff with the Swarm only makes it worse.

Just don't think about it. Remember BW for the dialogue and character dynamics and battle choreography. Ignore all the "backstory" and (*cough*) "fan clarifications". Lookin' at you, BC16....

Edited by Thylacine 2000, 30 December 2018 - 04:40 PM.


#10 Tyranno

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:44 PM

it's not just the stuff outside the show that make the Vok inconsistent and hard to reconcile with stuff. Their motives in the later season actively contradict their motives earlier in the show.

 

Making it up as you go along is one thing, but at least keep it consistent with what came before.


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#11 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:12 PM

Expectations in that area were pretty low at the time. We were still well before TV started being taken seriously in the US, especially in serial storytelling. 

 

I still feel like the Vok are more or less acceptable as a dumb plot device, but everything fans have attempted to insert later makes them much worse, and the Swarm idea most of all. (I don't care that it was something one of the story editors thought about at one time, they didn't put it in and fans later did.)

 

I remember reading that the Vok were intended to be attempting to atone for wiping out Earth during G2.

 

I just ... I love that they would have accomplished this by wiping out Earth again, but in the past. It makes so much sense. XD


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#12 Tyranno

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:15 PM

It's just not one of those things that replaces something less interesting (like Megatron's "real" motivation being revealed to have nothing to do with Energon), and makes the whole arc involving them even more vague and pointless. I don't think it's unfair to judge it negatively.


"Disabled people don’t have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isn’t a “special need”. It’s a basic human right. It’s a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#13 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:43 PM

I mean, I'm not saying it isn't a weakness of the show, and any defense of it is somewhere between "doesn't age well" and "a nice effort under the circumstances", or at the very best "it just wasn't a big part of what they were doing." I do think the BotCon stuff was a whole other order of dumb, but it was alongside things like killing Wheelie and Daniel because lol, so I don't know why I'd expect otherwise. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#14 Sabrblade

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:14 AM

As an alternative theory, maybe the Vok are the in-multiverse forms of the writers, all powerful and all knowing beings that shape everything and have motives indecipherable to the rest of creation, because they are the makers of creation. Any conflicting origins or motives can be explained as multiple writers (Vok) butting heads over continuity, forever trying to out-fanwank the other in an endless game that constantly alters the lore forever.

So... the two Vok from the episode were actually Bob and Larry? :p

 

 

I still feel like the Vok are more or less acceptable as a dumb plot device, but everything fans have attempted to insert later makes them much worse, and the Swarm idea most of all. (I don't care that it was something one of the story editors thought about at one time, they didn't put it in and fans later did.)

That's true for the Beast Wars Glossary, yes, but Primeval Dawn Part 1 was written by Bob forward himself.


Edited by Sabrblade, 31 December 2018 - 12:24 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#15 That One Guy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:29 AM

So... the two Vok from the episode were actually Bob and Larry? :p


Precisely! :p

#16 Copper Bezel

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:29 AM

Oof. I didn't realize that. Wow. Huh. There's a life lesson in this somewhere.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#17 That One Guy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:31 AM

Oof. I didn't realize that. Wow. Huh. There's a life lesson in this somewhere.

When talking about the Vok, there's always something meta going on :)

#18 Fear or Courage

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

I mean, I don't know about the more fanciful ideas from Bob and Larry's shpiels about what they are and what they were trying to do, but the part about the Vok trying to engage in a controlled, guided cultural evolution of humanity into enlightenment for whatever reason certainly tracks with their actions on the show. Given the nature of some of their tests (reasoning versus destructive capability), it feels like their aversion to the Transformers being there was a Prime Directive-esque cultural contamination problem, polluting their controlled evolution experiment to the point where they were, apparently, willing to torch the whole place over it. 

 

On the other hand, the Ark being buried on Earth the whole time doesn't really fit with that, since their experiment was already contaminated, but it's easy to just say that they're not as all-seeing and all-knowing as they'd like us to think, and literally never checked inside that one mountain.

 

That's how I've been thinking of it during my rewatch, anyway.


Edited by Fear or Courage, 02 January 2019 - 03:51 PM.


#19 Locoman

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:59 PM

Maybe the Vok wanted to guide humanity in such a way so that when the Ark reactivated in 1984, the humans would be technologically and socially prepared to fight back against the Decepticons.

Edited by Locoman, 02 January 2019 - 04:00 PM.


#20 Copper Bezel

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:45 PM


The Vok didn't seem to me more particularly interested in humans than any other species on the planet that I recall, and they tried to kill everything regardless when the Transformers showed up, but in a way that didn't particularly allow them to easily reset the experiment or actually remove the Transformers. They'd planned for this eventuality by building an orbital megastructure disguised as a moon, which would apparently slow bake the planet in the event of an emergency. They'd also apparently left the planet just hanging out until someone set off the right device, disguised as a primitive structure that might be built by a species that didn't actually live on the planet as such in case, er, they could confuse some space archeologists, but got really interested in the planet again now and then when they were needed for plot devices. And apparently there's a flying island with a security system, for some reason. 

 

I really don't see anything resembling a goal or objective here.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 




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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Vok, Earth, Humanity, Swarm, Beast Era, G2, Wings Universe, Marvel

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