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@  Bass X0 : (17 November 2019 - 04:29 AM)

2019 has been one long South Park episode.

@  Sjogre : (16 November 2019 - 10:46 PM)

Okay, that actually sounds pretty fun.

@  Maximus Ambus : (15 November 2019 - 12:49 PM)

It was set in the forties, featured Nazi's as the villains and had Kiko fight mostly Ice Age animals and a mythical dragon that now ruled the island guarding Kongs treasure.

@  Paladin : (15 November 2019 - 11:37 AM)

and it was ALSO eleven hours long.

@  Maximus Ambus : (15 November 2019 - 10:55 AM)

In a alternate reality Peter Jackson made Son of Kong.

@  wonko the sane? : (15 November 2019 - 09:30 AM)

To be fair to boba: everyone else to go into the sarlacc was a sacrifice. Stripped almost naked and tossed, and didn't have body armor, a jetpack and a weapon.

@  TheMightyMol... : (15 November 2019 - 06:54 AM)

Nah, he just has to keep up his plot insurance payments so he can shoot his way out of the Sarlacc again.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (15 November 2019 - 02:59 AM)

Funny, but everyone knows he bounty hunts for Jabba Hutt to finance his 'Vette.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (15 November 2019 - 02:54 AM)

Okay.. Not sure why.. but streaming is harder than jsut playing the game.. even though that's pretty much what I was doing.

@  Xellos : (14 November 2019 - 06:47 PM)

What type of vehicle does Boba Fett use for time travel? A Man-DeLorean.

@  TM2-Megatron : (14 November 2019 - 03:55 PM)

Admittedly, it's been a long time since I've been to a walk-in clinic, as I tend not to get sick (and the one time I do every 4-5 years, I prefer just riding it out at home), but the last time I went I'm pretty sure you could just show up, no appointment. It may be different in Quebec,though

@  Nevermore : (14 November 2019 - 02:36 PM)

One thing to note about health insurance in Germany is that we have a two-class system: mandatory health insurance is basically the economy class, while private health insurance is the business class.

@  Nevermore : (14 November 2019 - 02:32 PM)

My local doctor is actually a shared office with several doctors where you will get randomly assigned to one of the doctors available that day.

@  Nevermore : (14 November 2019 - 02:30 PM)

Also, employers are required by law to cover part of their employees' health insurance fees, so I only have to pay my part.

@  Nevermore : (14 November 2019 - 02:28 PM)

Basic examinations and sick notes (known as "work-inability certificates" in Germany) for the employer are covered by our health insurances by default.

@  TheMightyMol... : (14 November 2019 - 12:02 PM)

Around here, we can go to a walk-in clinic whenever, but might have to wait in the queue until there's a doctor available, which can take hours on a busy day. And then hope our insurance will cover anything.

@  wonko the sane? : (14 November 2019 - 07:38 AM)

There actually are a good number of clinics around here: but the walk ins require an appointment (what?) and are only done once a week. IF you can get an appointment, you see a doctor usually within 40 minutes, but good luck getting the appointment.

@  Nevermore : (14 November 2019 - 03:35 AM)

Depending on the day.

@  Nevermore : (14 November 2019 - 03:35 AM)

We have family doctors (called "house doctors") with regular office hours where you may need an hour or two of waiting time.

@  TM2-Megatron : (14 November 2019 - 12:50 AM)

Two weeks? That seems a little long; are there not a lot of walk-in clinics around you?

@  wonko the sane? : (13 November 2019 - 07:01 PM)

Does germany make it quick and easy to see a doctor too? Cause an emergency doctor visit can take two weeks out here, and an emergency ROOM visit can take 18-24 hours.

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:43 PM)

(Good thing is, under German law, if you call in sick during your vacation and see a doctor immediately, you get to keep your vacation days.)

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:42 PM)

Too bad. My plans wee to do two more overtime hours before having my last day of vacation for the year on Friday. Oh well.

@  Nevermore : (13 November 2019 - 06:41 PM)

So I'm currently on medical leave for a particularly stupid reason: Burned my back with a hot-water bag while sleeping last night. Though the doctor said I'm hardly the first person to have this happen to them.

@  Patch : (13 November 2019 - 06:11 PM)

Just a particularly odious example of the 90s era of depicting transgender women as either the subject of crude humor, or "Jerry Springer" material.

@  Ashley : (13 November 2019 - 04:55 PM)

I think Ace Ventura legit contributed to me spending years in self denial. I will never be ok with Jim Carrey.

@  Benbot : (13 November 2019 - 01:22 PM)

I thought he since changed his tune.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (13 November 2019 - 12:51 PM)

Jim Carry Paladin?

@  Maximus Ambus : (13 November 2019 - 12:22 PM)

Don't doubt what he can do. Sonic the Hedgehog!

@  Paladin : (13 November 2019 - 11:51 AM)

not giving a dime to a transphobic antivaxxer.

@  wonko the sane? : (13 November 2019 - 11:25 AM)

It'll be a terrible movie if jim carrey phones it in. Otherwise it should be decent.

@  Paladin : (13 November 2019 - 10:45 AM)

sonics' still gonna be a terrible movie but at least they whined loud enough to make him look passable for a 2-minute trailer. "yay."

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:37 AM)

But of course to annoying people there's no such thing as different decisions made for different reasons, there is only "I like it so it's right" and "I don't like it so it's wrong."

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:35 AM)

Even if we pretend it's objective truth that they were both bad, then they were bad in very different ways.

@  ▲ndrusi : (13 November 2019 - 10:33 AM)

Sonic's previous movie design looked genuinely bad. The Transformers '07 designs just looked insufficiently like what certain loud and obnoxious parts of the fandom think Transformers are required to always look like.

@  Otaku : (13 November 2019 - 08:50 AM)

Um... Purple Monkey Dishwasher?

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 November 2019 - 08:25 AM)

Do we really need to have Every Movie Transformer Thread Ever in the Squawkbox?

@  Bass X0 : (13 November 2019 - 08:13 AM)

Sure it made money but that doesn’t mean it has appealing character designs. Lot of god awful fugly faces in the Transformers movies.

@  Otaku : (12 November 2019 - 08:25 PM)

@Liege My issue with Transformers (2007) were elements I thought were unnecessary.  I know it was supposed to just be a joke, but I didn't ever need to hear about "Sam's Happy Time". >.> Which, being in awe of the first "live action" TF-film, didn't even register until I'd already purchased and watched it on DVD a few times (after seeing it in theaters 3 times).

@  Liege : (12 November 2019 - 08:22 PM)

For all the Bayisms in the 07 movie, it was tempered by Spielberg as producer. Designs aside it was an enjoyable popcorn blockbuster about a boy and his first car who happens to be an alien from another planet. They sequels are just Bay going unchecked after he proved how much bank he could bring in.

@  TM2-Megatron : (12 November 2019 - 07:12 PM)

I didn't find the designs in the '07 movie to be that bad, personally. What got really offputting was how Cybertronians in general become such huge a-holes in the later films; the designs were very much secondary to their horrible personalities

@  Sabrblade : (12 November 2019 - 06:59 PM)

And yet, Transformers still broke the bank at the box office, opened up the brand to a whole new generation of fans, shot the brand up to mainstream appeal, and enabled all kinds of new collector-oriented lines and other avenues to come about. Not saying Sonic's movie will do the same for his series, but the 2007 TF movie certainly did more good than harm.

@  Bass X0 : (12 November 2019 - 06:09 PM)

Paramount changed Sonic due to fan backlash but refused to redo Transformers 2007 with new cgi appearances based on their classic forms everyone’s knows and loves, and can relate to. Trailer 1 Sonic is as appealing a design as 2007 Bumblebee...

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 November 2019 - 02:14 PM)

I don't. They're a pain in the ass to repair.

@  Benbot : (12 November 2019 - 12:48 PM)

I wish car companies would bring back flip up headlights

@  TheMightyMol... : (12 November 2019 - 09:07 AM)

Wear a hazmat suit. It's Walmart, they're used to weird.

@  wonko the sane? : (12 November 2019 - 07:54 AM)

2 inches of snow on the side of the house, 2 feet of snow on the deck. I hate this winter already.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (11 November 2019 - 11:33 PM)

But that requires actually going IN walmart. ;P

@  Liege : (11 November 2019 - 11:22 PM)

Pro tip for anyone hunting the for the Walmart 35th exclusives: try the seasonal aisles rather than the toy section. I found the display with all the exclusives and a bunch of the reflector wave practically untouched amongst those novelty arcade machines and a bunch of frozen merch.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (11 November 2019 - 09:45 PM)

Although that does spark an idea for me. In a new continuity, Censere the Necrobot could be the herald Cityspeaker for Quintessa the Necrotitan just to play on their monikers utilizing Greek for dead, nekrós.


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The Vok, Swarm, and Earth: What the hell happened?

Vok Earth Humanity Swarm Beast Era G2 Wings Universe Marvel

117 replies to this topic

#1 That One Guy

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 11:34 PM

How exactly do the Vok, Swarm, and Earth relate to one another in the context of the Beast Era? Early concepts involving the Vok depicted them as an evolved version of the Swarm that ended up destroying Earth and it's sector of space, causing the Maximal High Council to ban travel to and from the area. While this never made it into Beast Wars, the Swarm is referenced in Primeval Dawn, as well as the One. As for Earth, the assumed reason for the ban was to keep time traveling warmongerers away and preserve history, although this is (as far as I know) pure assumption.

Wings Universe, the Marvel G2 comics, and Primeval Dawn all involved the Swarm somehow, but the specifics are anyone's guess. Primeval Dawn posits the idea that the Vok wish to atone for their past sins as the Swarm by guiding Earth to Utopia, although given that history did not unfold that way, how would the Vok ever believe this is a good idea and totally not doomed to fail even though it already did? Unless their plan was to rewrite all of history with an enormous time storm, although that would also destroy everything they did and the entirety of the Beast Era. My head hurts.

So I ask the community, how do all these pieces fit? Is there a logical explanation for how this all works (that doesn't destroy history many times over and create a big paradox), or are the Vok just a vague concept doomed to make little sense? Until further notice, I'm going with the idea that the entire solar system is in a quantum lock due to the constant threats of history being rewritten while it's happening and already did happen (think what Doctor Who did with the Time War. Seal it all away to preserve reality).

Edited by That ONE Guy, 29 December 2018 - 11:37 PM.


#2 Sabrblade

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:44 AM

are the Vok just a vague concept doomed to make little sense?

 

LgtRAqk.jpg

 

 

I'll leave it to Vector Prime with this one:

Dear Vociferous Vok Vagrant,

 
The Vok are strange and mysterious creatures, with motives opaque to outsiders, even myself. They swim in the streams of time and reality like oxide sharks in a rust sea, navigating the waters of existence with ease. Decoding what they know, why the act, may well prove impossible. Even their origins are shrouded in mystery; are they the future of humanity, hyper-evolved and free of the constraints of linear space/time? The Swarm, made ascendant? Those Who Came Before, who survived the birthpangs of the multiverse? Perhaps all of the above and more, for the multiverse is indeed vast.

Edited by Sabrblade, 30 December 2018 - 12:45 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#3 NightViper

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:51 AM

The Vok manipulate Transformers lore and interfere in the lives of Cybertronians in ways that fit their ever-fluctuating whims. They build entire worlds just to watch when they tear them down. And go back to do it again. They grant individuals powers and life then take it away.

The Vok are all of us. Playing with our Transformers toys.


Edited by NightViper, 30 December 2018 - 09:19 AM.


#4 LV!

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 11:26 AM

whats going on here VOK, I thought the mission was to be mild,this is too extreme, surly unicron will awaken.


#5 Kup

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:40 PM

I remember reading that the Vok were intended to be attempting to atone for wiping out Earth during G2.

Assume for a minute thats true, wouldnt it be fanfic-cool if the Marvel G1/G2 came first, then the Vok go back in time, the Beast Wars happen, and this sets in motion the Sunbow G1. Sort of a Star Trek 09 reboot, so to speak.

I wonder if this idea was ever thrown out on ATT or other message boards before I got back into the fandom in 99...?

Edited by Kup, 30 December 2018 - 12:41 PM.

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#6 MidnightFox

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 02:33 PM

Nothing involving or comparable to Abrams Trek can be classified as "cool".

#7 That One Guy

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:54 PM

Assume for a minute thats true, wouldnt it be fanfic-cool if the Marvel G1/G2 came first, then the Vok go back in time, the Beast Wars happen, and this sets in motion the Sunbow G1. Sort of a Star Trek 09 reboot, so to speak.
I wonder if this idea was ever thrown out on ATT or other message boards before I got back into the fandom in 99...?

Not a bad theory. That explanation could allow Furman's personal canon timeline for the Beast Era (G1,G2, BW, and RtOP) all have happened, and then have the Vok reset reality, letting the more Sunbow oriented Beast Era (G1 cartoon, DoFP, BW, BM, the Wreckers, and Universe) happen as well, resolving any discrepancies. The more comic based stuff could be pre-Vok, the cartoon based fiction post-Vok. I suppose Primeval Dawn would be difficult to place, though since it leads into the Wreckers, I suppose it would be post-Vok, with the Vok simply alluding to what they did/plan to do (it's all wibbly wobbly timey wimey).

EDIT: As another thought, perhaps the inconsistencies between the Marvel based fiction and Sunbow based fiction are the result of the Vok constantly rewriting history as it's happening, so all of the events occuring are 'true' to some extent, but then rendered paradoxical at the same time due to future (or past) edits to the timeline. So in a way, the Marvel and Sunbow backstories are both true at the same time, making neither true and producing an ever shifting blend until one version is settled on.


The Vok are all of us. Playing with our Transformers toys.

This.

Edited by That ONE Guy, 30 December 2018 - 04:09 PM.


#8 That One Guy

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:58 PM

As an alternative theory, maybe the Vok are the in-multiverse forms of the writers, all powerful and all knowing beings that shape everything and have motives indecipherable to the rest of creation, because they are the makers of creation. Any conflicting origins or motives can be explained as multiple writers (Vok) butting heads over continuity, forever trying to out-fanwank the other in an endless game that constantly alters the lore forever.

#9 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:39 PM

Beast Wars was made up as it went along. Bob and Larry never knew at the end of each season if there would be another one. NONE of the G1 tie-in stuff was planned until they found ATT and learned about it.

The Vok were particularly made-up-as-it-went-along. Bob and Larry never even really agreed among themselves what they were supposed to be.

And what little author intentist backstory we've gotten is stupid. The Vok blew up Earth a million times and recreated it every time but were afraid of Megatron blowing it up because flerpty flerp. Stuff with the Swarm only makes it worse.

Just don't think about it. Remember BW for the dialogue and character dynamics and battle choreography. Ignore all the "backstory" and (*cough*) "fan clarifications". Lookin' at you, BC16....

Edited by Thylacine 2000, 30 December 2018 - 04:40 PM.


#10 Tyranno

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:44 PM

it's not just the stuff outside the show that make the Vok inconsistent and hard to reconcile with stuff. Their motives in the later season actively contradict their motives earlier in the show.

 

Making it up as you go along is one thing, but at least keep it consistent with what came before.


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The need for accommodation isnt a special need. Its a basic human right. Its a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#11 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:12 PM

Expectations in that area were pretty low at the time. We were still well before TV started being taken seriously in the US, especially in serial storytelling. 

 

I still feel like the Vok are more or less acceptable as a dumb plot device, but everything fans have attempted to insert later makes them much worse, and the Swarm idea most of all. (I don't care that it was something one of the story editors thought about at one time, they didn't put it in and fans later did.)

 

I remember reading that the Vok were intended to be attempting to atone for wiping out Earth during G2.

 

I just ... I love that they would have accomplished this by wiping out Earth again, but in the past. It makes so much sense. XD


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#12 Tyranno

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:15 PM

It's just not one of those things that replaces something less interesting (like Megatron's "real" motivation being revealed to have nothing to do with Energon), and makes the whole arc involving them even more vague and pointless. I don't think it's unfair to judge it negatively.


"Disabled people dont have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnt a special need. Its a basic human right. Its a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#13 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:43 PM

I mean, I'm not saying it isn't a weakness of the show, and any defense of it is somewhere between "doesn't age well" and "a nice effort under the circumstances", or at the very best "it just wasn't a big part of what they were doing." I do think the BotCon stuff was a whole other order of dumb, but it was alongside things like killing Wheelie and Daniel because lol, so I don't know why I'd expect otherwise. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#14 Sabrblade

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:14 AM

As an alternative theory, maybe the Vok are the in-multiverse forms of the writers, all powerful and all knowing beings that shape everything and have motives indecipherable to the rest of creation, because they are the makers of creation. Any conflicting origins or motives can be explained as multiple writers (Vok) butting heads over continuity, forever trying to out-fanwank the other in an endless game that constantly alters the lore forever.

So... the two Vok from the episode were actually Bob and Larry? :p

 

 

I still feel like the Vok are more or less acceptable as a dumb plot device, but everything fans have attempted to insert later makes them much worse, and the Swarm idea most of all. (I don't care that it was something one of the story editors thought about at one time, they didn't put it in and fans later did.)

That's true for the Beast Wars Glossary, yes, but Primeval Dawn Part 1 was written by Bob forward himself.


Edited by Sabrblade, 31 December 2018 - 12:24 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#15 That One Guy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:29 AM

So... the two Vok from the episode were actually Bob and Larry? :p


Precisely! :p

#16 Copper Bezel

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:29 AM

Oof. I didn't realize that. Wow. Huh. There's a life lesson in this somewhere.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#17 That One Guy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:31 AM

Oof. I didn't realize that. Wow. Huh. There's a life lesson in this somewhere.

When talking about the Vok, there's always something meta going on :)

#18 Fear or Courage

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

I mean, I don't know about the more fanciful ideas from Bob and Larry's shpiels about what they are and what they were trying to do, but the part about the Vok trying to engage in a controlled, guided cultural evolution of humanity into enlightenment for whatever reason certainly tracks with their actions on the show. Given the nature of some of their tests (reasoning versus destructive capability), it feels like their aversion to the Transformers being there was a Prime Directive-esque cultural contamination problem, polluting their controlled evolution experiment to the point where they were, apparently, willing to torch the whole place over it. 

 

On the other hand, the Ark being buried on Earth the whole time doesn't really fit with that, since their experiment was already contaminated, but it's easy to just say that they're not as all-seeing and all-knowing as they'd like us to think, and literally never checked inside that one mountain.

 

That's how I've been thinking of it during my rewatch, anyway.


Edited by Fear or Courage, 02 January 2019 - 03:51 PM.


#19 Locoman

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:59 PM

Maybe the Vok wanted to guide humanity in such a way so that when the Ark reactivated in 1984, the humans would be technologically and socially prepared to fight back against the Decepticons.

Edited by Locoman, 02 January 2019 - 04:00 PM.


#20 Copper Bezel

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:45 PM


The Vok didn't seem to me more particularly interested in humans than any other species on the planet that I recall, and they tried to kill everything regardless when the Transformers showed up, but in a way that didn't particularly allow them to easily reset the experiment or actually remove the Transformers. They'd planned for this eventuality by building an orbital megastructure disguised as a moon, which would apparently slow bake the planet in the event of an emergency. They'd also apparently left the planet just hanging out until someone set off the right device, disguised as a primitive structure that might be built by a species that didn't actually live on the planet as such in case, er, they could confuse some space archeologists, but got really interested in the planet again now and then when they were needed for plot devices. And apparently there's a flying island with a security system, for some reason. 

 

I really don't see anything resembling a goal or objective here.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 




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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Vok, Earth, Humanity, Swarm, Beast Era, G2, Wings Universe, Marvel

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