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@  Steevy Maximus : (27 October 2020 - 08:00 PM)

Tired of the same old Halloween stuff? Check out Tubi. The depths of the schlock available is astounding.

@  Donocropolis : (27 October 2020 - 11:51 AM)

Not sure if it's news or not, but I'm at Ross right now and they have Masterpiece Movie Ironhide for $24.99

@  Steevy Maximus : (27 October 2020 - 12:45 AM)

Final Fantasy 7 Remake’s Best Buy exclusive deluxe version is available for $10 as one of today’s daily deals

@  PlutoniumBoss : (26 October 2020 - 08:50 PM)

We can play the "Is it a real headline or an Onion headline" game.

@  Steevy Maximus : (26 October 2020 - 08:22 PM)

It's weird to see how much of Larry Hama's "satire" from the old GI Joe comic has no longer become satire in the past few years.

@  Maximus Ambus : (26 October 2020 - 11:29 AM)

Funny how 2020 gave me new appreciation for Dawn of the Dead 1978.

@  Sukoshiko : (25 October 2020 - 07:43 PM)

@Fenix Twilight Sure. Just not a good one.

@  Fenix Twilight : (25 October 2020 - 04:02 PM)

@Sukoshiko Well his clothes left an impression on you didn't they?

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 October 2020 - 06:09 AM)

I just read "Tesla Cybertruck" like AC/DC's "Thunderstruck", now it won't get out of my head, so I inflict it on all of you as well.

@  Sukoshiko : (25 October 2020 - 12:25 AM)

Tesla Cybertruck: amazing or just silly looking? I can't decide.

@  Sukoshiko : (25 October 2020 - 12:24 AM)

Weird question: I had to deal with a guy today... I'm not exactly up on modern fashions... or even archaic fashions... But this guy... Tuxedo Jacket and shirt, studs in all the button holes except the bottom one, blue jeans, and cowboy boots... Take a moment to imagine that get up. And this was to a business meeting, trying to impress someone. What look is that? Who on earth would dress that way? (I mean on purpose)

@  wonko the sane? : (24 October 2020 - 06:04 PM)

I think the few up here were lost to bad placement, poor weather, and the usual language trap.

@  TM2-Megatron : (24 October 2020 - 04:25 PM)

There are 5 spread around southwestern Ontario, all run by the same company. I've only been to the one in my area, but it seems to do good business even in non-pandemic times. On long weekends, when they do triple features, there's a normally a lineup to get in Friday and Saturday nights

@  Telly : (24 October 2020 - 01:51 PM)

there been one outside of my town for as long as ive been alive at least. its gone through its share of owners and periods of being closed down, but its been open for the past decade at least

@  Otaku : (24 October 2020 - 12:08 PM)

Bias from personal experience, but drive-in theaters are nearly extinct.  I grew up near one but it went out of business in the late 80s, and was torn down and replaced with some other business by the early 90s.

@  wonko the sane? : (24 October 2020 - 07:47 AM)

Out here, I mean. Couldn't comment on their popularity in place where they actually exist.

@  wonko the sane? : (24 October 2020 - 06:44 AM)

I wouldn't know. They've only come back into vogue with the social distancing from the plague, and while some places have made an effort to shoestring the places together, it's all largely too distant to be accessible.

@  TM2-Megatron : (23 October 2020 - 09:46 PM)

I'd hate to see ours replaced by condos. They're a great way to spend an evening, whether with family or on a date. And they've never been as common in Canada as the US, so we cna't afford to lose as many

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2020 - 09:45 PM)

Largely they were either poorly placed or bought out and torn down to be replaced by something other than over priced short term parking. Mostly condos.

@  TM2-Megatron : (23 October 2020 - 09:14 PM)

I guess your winters are worse, so they have a shorter operating season. Drive-ins in the Toronto area can usually operate until early or mid-December; maybe even into early January if there's no real snowfall, and open up again sometime in March.

@  TM2-Megatron : (23 October 2020 - 09:13 PM)

THere's really only 1 left in the entire province?

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2020 - 09:03 PM)

Ha! It's probably faster for me to drive to your drive in than to make my way to the only one left in quebec.

@  TM2-Megatron : (23 October 2020 - 06:57 PM)

Fortunately we still have a drive-in theatre that's exempt from the closures about a 10 minute drive away

@  TM2-Megatron : (23 October 2020 - 06:57 PM)

Theatres around here are closed again for at least another couple weeks (wouldn't be surprised if it's extended by another month or so, either), but that's what they've been doing here as well. Playing the old classics

@  Maximus Ambus : (23 October 2020 - 02:36 PM)

I got Earthrise Megatron, he's better then I thought he'd be though Netflix Megatron is still tops.

@  Bass X0 : (23 October 2020 - 10:44 AM)

The original Rocky movie is also showing. May go next weekend. That’s how you get people back in the theatres - show the old classics every adult loves.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2020 - 10:35 AM)

They did a limited run showing of it up here too, back when the theaters were open... red zones suck.

@  Bass X0 : (23 October 2020 - 10:13 AM)

The original Back To The Future is showing in the Odeon in the UK now. I think I will go see it tomorrow.

@  Donocropolis : (23 October 2020 - 05:51 AM)

It was either the Bumblebee or Cliffjumper. Can't remember the colors.

@  Kalidor : (22 October 2020 - 06:43 PM)

What did it look like?

@  Donocropolis : (22 October 2020 - 01:34 PM)

I swear I remember getting the Happymeal G1 minibot as a child, but I live 2.5 hours from St. Louis, which is the only place they apparently came out. It's possible that I got it on a family vacation, though, as we went to Six Flags pretty often.

@  ▲ndrusi : (22 October 2020 - 01:07 PM)

Conversely, I had the Gobot helicopter from Wendy's and I was absolutely convinced it was an actual Transformer.

@  Donocropolis : (22 October 2020 - 08:13 AM)

I used to rubber-band Hot-Wheels style construction vehicles together and pretend it was Devestator.

@  Bass X0 : (21 October 2020 - 05:26 PM)

When I was about four years old, my parents bought me Bugbite and tried to tell me it was Bumblebee. I was not yet a fan of Transformers, but I knew that wasn't Bumblebee. I didn't even have the real Bumblebee at that time.

@  Maximus Ambus : (21 October 2020 - 01:39 PM)

It would come with two soundtracks: the eighties classic and one featuring dubstep and the VAs are popular Youtubers.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 October 2020 - 12:13 PM)

But yeah, reading it: I came off as a bit of an ass.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 October 2020 - 11:52 AM)

I just couldn't think of worse music than disco...

@  NotVeryKnightly : (21 October 2020 - 11:35 AM)

What were you trying to imply with the mocking sarcasm, though? Nobody suggested that '80s music was any more "of it's time" than '70s music.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 October 2020 - 11:18 AM)

I said that disco wouldn't fare much better with the same context: media is property of it's time; biases, culture and limitations are all inherent in that. Some stuff can be brought forward because of an inherently timeless nature or the simplicity with which it was made but lots of media is a time capsule of the period of when it was made.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (21 October 2020 - 08:46 AM)

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, or what you even think I said.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 October 2020 - 08:11 AM)

Yeah, cause disco would make the transition so much better...

@  NotVeryKnightly : (21 October 2020 - 07:17 AM)

I feel the '80s music would be jarring when running over current-day CGI instead of well, '80s visuals.

@  Maximus Ambus : (21 October 2020 - 05:39 AM)

Not a remake, reanimated scene for scene, like that fan vid titled they were always real to me.

@  TheMightyMol... : (21 October 2020 - 04:37 AM)

Because we need more remakes these days.

@  Maximus Ambus : (21 October 2020 - 01:36 AM)

Be a hoot if these Studio Series 86 toys led to Transformers The Move Reanimated like Pokemon Mewtwo Strikes Back Evolution.

@  Paladin : (20 October 2020 - 05:15 PM)

only takes three pounds to be a cereal killer.

@  Kalidor : (20 October 2020 - 04:54 PM)

5 pounds is a lot of cereal! /deadpan

@  Maximus Ambus : (20 October 2020 - 02:32 PM)

Seems the area near my work place is due to be gentrified. Electric car ports, fifty pound haircuts and five pound bowls of cereal in breakfast cafes I'll bet.

@  Steevy Maximus : (19 October 2020 - 11:31 PM)

@ZakuConvoy Lumines Electric Symphony. So still halfway interesting, and it’ll play on the PS TV

@  Demovere Xeno : (19 October 2020 - 10:36 PM)

@Maximus: I paired the Battle Patrol with Ironworks and they look good together, though the Off Road Patrol would probably fit best as vehicles you're likely to find at a construction site.


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The Vok, Swarm, and Earth: What the hell happened?

Vok Earth Humanity Swarm Beast Era G2 Wings Universe Marvel

117 replies to this topic

#1 That One Guy

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 11:34 PM

How exactly do the Vok, Swarm, and Earth relate to one another in the context of the Beast Era? Early concepts involving the Vok depicted them as an evolved version of the Swarm that ended up destroying Earth and it's sector of space, causing the Maximal High Council to ban travel to and from the area. While this never made it into Beast Wars, the Swarm is referenced in Primeval Dawn, as well as the One. As for Earth, the assumed reason for the ban was to keep time traveling warmongerers away and preserve history, although this is (as far as I know) pure assumption.

Wings Universe, the Marvel G2 comics, and Primeval Dawn all involved the Swarm somehow, but the specifics are anyone's guess. Primeval Dawn posits the idea that the Vok wish to atone for their past sins as the Swarm by guiding Earth to Utopia, although given that history did not unfold that way, how would the Vok ever believe this is a good idea and totally not doomed to fail even though it already did? Unless their plan was to rewrite all of history with an enormous time storm, although that would also destroy everything they did and the entirety of the Beast Era. My head hurts.

So I ask the community, how do all these pieces fit? Is there a logical explanation for how this all works (that doesn't destroy history many times over and create a big paradox), or are the Vok just a vague concept doomed to make little sense? Until further notice, I'm going with the idea that the entire solar system is in a quantum lock due to the constant threats of history being rewritten while it's happening and already did happen (think what Doctor Who did with the Time War. Seal it all away to preserve reality).

Edited by That ONE Guy, 29 December 2018 - 11:37 PM.


#2 Sabrblade

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:44 AM

are the Vok just a vague concept doomed to make little sense?

 

LgtRAqk.jpg

 

 

I'll leave it to Vector Prime with this one:

Dear Vociferous Vok Vagrant,

 
The Vok are strange and mysterious creatures, with motives opaque to outsiders, even myself. They swim in the streams of time and reality like oxide sharks in a rust sea, navigating the waters of existence with ease. Decoding what they know, why the act, may well prove impossible. Even their origins are shrouded in mystery; are they the future of humanity, hyper-evolved and free of the constraints of linear space/time? The Swarm, made ascendant? Those Who Came Before, who survived the birthpangs of the multiverse? Perhaps all of the above and more, for the multiverse is indeed vast.

Edited by Sabrblade, 30 December 2018 - 12:45 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#3 NightViper

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:51 AM

The Vok manipulate Transformers lore and interfere in the lives of Cybertronians in ways that fit their ever-fluctuating whims. They build entire worlds just to watch when they tear them down. And go back to do it again. They grant individuals powers and life then take it away.

The Vok are all of us. Playing with our Transformers toys.


Edited by NightViper, 30 December 2018 - 09:19 AM.


#4 LV!

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 11:26 AM

whats going on here VOK, I thought the mission was to be mild,this is too extreme, surly unicron will awaken.


#5 Kup

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:40 PM

I remember reading that the Vok were intended to be attempting to atone for wiping out Earth during G2.

Assume for a minute thats true, wouldnt it be fanfic-cool if the Marvel G1/G2 came first, then the Vok go back in time, the Beast Wars happen, and this sets in motion the Sunbow G1. Sort of a Star Trek 09 reboot, so to speak.

I wonder if this idea was ever thrown out on ATT or other message boards before I got back into the fandom in 99...?

Edited by Kup, 30 December 2018 - 12:41 PM.

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#6 MidnightFox

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 02:33 PM

Nothing involving or comparable to Abrams Trek can be classified as "cool".

#7 That One Guy

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:54 PM

Assume for a minute thats true, wouldnt it be fanfic-cool if the Marvel G1/G2 came first, then the Vok go back in time, the Beast Wars happen, and this sets in motion the Sunbow G1. Sort of a Star Trek 09 reboot, so to speak.
I wonder if this idea was ever thrown out on ATT or other message boards before I got back into the fandom in 99...?

Not a bad theory. That explanation could allow Furman's personal canon timeline for the Beast Era (G1,G2, BW, and RtOP) all have happened, and then have the Vok reset reality, letting the more Sunbow oriented Beast Era (G1 cartoon, DoFP, BW, BM, the Wreckers, and Universe) happen as well, resolving any discrepancies. The more comic based stuff could be pre-Vok, the cartoon based fiction post-Vok. I suppose Primeval Dawn would be difficult to place, though since it leads into the Wreckers, I suppose it would be post-Vok, with the Vok simply alluding to what they did/plan to do (it's all wibbly wobbly timey wimey).

EDIT: As another thought, perhaps the inconsistencies between the Marvel based fiction and Sunbow based fiction are the result of the Vok constantly rewriting history as it's happening, so all of the events occuring are 'true' to some extent, but then rendered paradoxical at the same time due to future (or past) edits to the timeline. So in a way, the Marvel and Sunbow backstories are both true at the same time, making neither true and producing an ever shifting blend until one version is settled on.


The Vok are all of us. Playing with our Transformers toys.

This.

Edited by That ONE Guy, 30 December 2018 - 04:09 PM.


#8 That One Guy

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:58 PM

As an alternative theory, maybe the Vok are the in-multiverse forms of the writers, all powerful and all knowing beings that shape everything and have motives indecipherable to the rest of creation, because they are the makers of creation. Any conflicting origins or motives can be explained as multiple writers (Vok) butting heads over continuity, forever trying to out-fanwank the other in an endless game that constantly alters the lore forever.

#9 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:39 PM

Beast Wars was made up as it went along. Bob and Larry never knew at the end of each season if there would be another one. NONE of the G1 tie-in stuff was planned until they found ATT and learned about it.

The Vok were particularly made-up-as-it-went-along. Bob and Larry never even really agreed among themselves what they were supposed to be.

And what little author intentist backstory we've gotten is stupid. The Vok blew up Earth a million times and recreated it every time but were afraid of Megatron blowing it up because flerpty flerp. Stuff with the Swarm only makes it worse.

Just don't think about it. Remember BW for the dialogue and character dynamics and battle choreography. Ignore all the "backstory" and (*cough*) "fan clarifications". Lookin' at you, BC16....

Edited by Thylacine 2000, 30 December 2018 - 04:40 PM.


#10 Tyranno

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:44 PM

it's not just the stuff outside the show that make the Vok inconsistent and hard to reconcile with stuff. Their motives in the later season actively contradict their motives earlier in the show.

 

Making it up as you go along is one thing, but at least keep it consistent with what came before.


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The need for accommodation isnt a special need. Its a basic human right. Its a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#11 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:12 PM

Expectations in that area were pretty low at the time. We were still well before TV started being taken seriously in the US, especially in serial storytelling. 

 

I still feel like the Vok are more or less acceptable as a dumb plot device, but everything fans have attempted to insert later makes them much worse, and the Swarm idea most of all. (I don't care that it was something one of the story editors thought about at one time, they didn't put it in and fans later did.)

 

I remember reading that the Vok were intended to be attempting to atone for wiping out Earth during G2.

 

I just ... I love that they would have accomplished this by wiping out Earth again, but in the past. It makes so much sense. XD


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#12 Tyranno

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:15 PM

It's just not one of those things that replaces something less interesting (like Megatron's "real" motivation being revealed to have nothing to do with Energon), and makes the whole arc involving them even more vague and pointless. I don't think it's unfair to judge it negatively.


"Disabled people dont have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnt a special need. Its a basic human right. Its a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#13 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:43 PM

I mean, I'm not saying it isn't a weakness of the show, and any defense of it is somewhere between "doesn't age well" and "a nice effort under the circumstances", or at the very best "it just wasn't a big part of what they were doing." I do think the BotCon stuff was a whole other order of dumb, but it was alongside things like killing Wheelie and Daniel because lol, so I don't know why I'd expect otherwise. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#14 Sabrblade

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:14 AM

As an alternative theory, maybe the Vok are the in-multiverse forms of the writers, all powerful and all knowing beings that shape everything and have motives indecipherable to the rest of creation, because they are the makers of creation. Any conflicting origins or motives can be explained as multiple writers (Vok) butting heads over continuity, forever trying to out-fanwank the other in an endless game that constantly alters the lore forever.

So... the two Vok from the episode were actually Bob and Larry? :p

 

 

I still feel like the Vok are more or less acceptable as a dumb plot device, but everything fans have attempted to insert later makes them much worse, and the Swarm idea most of all. (I don't care that it was something one of the story editors thought about at one time, they didn't put it in and fans later did.)

That's true for the Beast Wars Glossary, yes, but Primeval Dawn Part 1 was written by Bob Forward himself.


Edited by Sabrblade, 09 August 2020 - 11:22 PM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#15 That One Guy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:29 AM

So... the two Vok from the episode were actually Bob and Larry? :p


Precisely! :p

#16 Copper Bezel

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:29 AM

Oof. I didn't realize that. Wow. Huh. There's a life lesson in this somewhere.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#17 That One Guy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:31 AM

Oof. I didn't realize that. Wow. Huh. There's a life lesson in this somewhere.

When talking about the Vok, there's always something meta going on :)

#18 Fear or Courage

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

I mean, I don't know about the more fanciful ideas from Bob and Larry's shpiels about what they are and what they were trying to do, but the part about the Vok trying to engage in a controlled, guided cultural evolution of humanity into enlightenment for whatever reason certainly tracks with their actions on the show. Given the nature of some of their tests (reasoning versus destructive capability), it feels like their aversion to the Transformers being there was a Prime Directive-esque cultural contamination problem, polluting their controlled evolution experiment to the point where they were, apparently, willing to torch the whole place over it. 

 

On the other hand, the Ark being buried on Earth the whole time doesn't really fit with that, since their experiment was already contaminated, but it's easy to just say that they're not as all-seeing and all-knowing as they'd like us to think, and literally never checked inside that one mountain.

 

That's how I've been thinking of it during my rewatch, anyway.


Edited by Fear or Courage, 02 January 2019 - 03:51 PM.


#19 Locoman

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:59 PM

Maybe the Vok wanted to guide humanity in such a way so that when the Ark reactivated in 1984, the humans would be technologically and socially prepared to fight back against the Decepticons.

Edited by Locoman, 02 January 2019 - 04:00 PM.


#20 Copper Bezel

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:45 PM


The Vok didn't seem to me more particularly interested in humans than any other species on the planet that I recall, and they tried to kill everything regardless when the Transformers showed up, but in a way that didn't particularly allow them to easily reset the experiment or actually remove the Transformers. They'd planned for this eventuality by building an orbital megastructure disguised as a moon, which would apparently slow bake the planet in the event of an emergency. They'd also apparently left the planet just hanging out until someone set off the right device, disguised as a primitive structure that might be built by a species that didn't actually live on the planet as such in case, er, they could confuse some space archeologists, but got really interested in the planet again now and then when they were needed for plot devices. And apparently there's a flying island with a security system, for some reason. 

 

I really don't see anything resembling a goal or objective here.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 




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