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@  MEDdMI : (24 June 2019 - 08:54 AM)

yeah, I've got a few others that I need to check out/get removed. The nose one is small but annoying since I hit it every time I blow my nose.

@  unluckiness : (24 June 2019 - 08:46 AM)

Try to get a histopath examination if it isn't too expensive over there. It's probably just a mole but I'd think certainty would be better.

@  MEDdMI : (24 June 2019 - 07:59 AM)

@unluckiness I know, plan to get it removed but gotta get an appt first

@  Gizmoboy : (24 June 2019 - 07:50 AM)

oops... typed that in the wrong field. :)

@  Gizmoboy : (24 June 2019 - 07:50 AM)

gizmoboy

@  unluckiness : (24 June 2019 - 03:18 AM)

That is not a good thing, especially in the long term

@  MEDdMI : (23 June 2019 - 10:17 PM)

So who wants to hear about this mole on my nose that I keep scratching open

@  NotVeryKnightly : (23 June 2019 - 09:24 PM)

Yeah, it's kind of defeating the purpose of making political discussions more restricted if you're just gonna go at it elsewhere on this site.

@  Telly : (23 June 2019 - 07:06 PM)

that would probly fit better in the p & r thread. its there for things just like this

@  Nevermore : (23 June 2019 - 03:29 PM)

The citizens resisted by buying up all the town's beer reserves so the Nazis would have to stay sober the entire time.

@  Nevermore : (23 June 2019 - 03:28 PM)

Meanwhile, congratulations civil resistance, part 2: So a group of Nazis were holding one of their Good Old Times Reenactment festivals in a small East German town.

@  Nevermore : (23 June 2019 - 03:26 PM)

It's basically like an anti-Trump candidate winning Texas.

@  Nevermore : (23 June 2019 - 03:25 PM)

The mayoral elections of Istanbul are considered to be a key indicator for the political climate in the entire country.

@  Nevermore : (23 June 2019 - 03:24 PM)

This time, it was a landslide victory for the opposition's candidate.

@  Nevermore : (23 June 2019 - 03:23 PM)

After president Erdogan had a court revoke the results of the mayoral election of Istanbul after the opposition party's candidate had won by a small margin, the election was repeated today.

@  Nevermore : (23 June 2019 - 03:21 PM)

Congratulations, democracy part 1: Today is a historic day for Turkey.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (23 June 2019 - 02:31 PM)

Convert, does he timeout?

@  unluckiness : (23 June 2019 - 09:12 AM)

Did he form the feet and legs or the arms and body?

@  Patch : (22 June 2019 - 06:11 PM)

Nah, he was one of the Lions

@  MEDdMI : (22 June 2019 - 04:45 PM)

Is he a Shellformer

@  Nevermore : (22 June 2019 - 12:38 PM)

Supposedly it's about that football player Calvin Johnson.

@  Pennpenn : (22 June 2019 - 07:03 AM)

I'm vaguely confused why there is a Nicki Minaj song in my youtube reccomendations, but even more confused as to why that song (which appears to be from an official account) is called "MEGATRON".

@  Liege : (21 June 2019 - 10:03 PM)

Alpha Q all night long.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (21 June 2019 - 10:44 AM)

Only if you ask nicely, Silv.

@  RichardT1977 : (21 June 2019 - 09:42 AM)

1998 Zilla is the Gaijin era.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (21 June 2019 - 01:59 AM)

Alpha Q?

@  PlutoniumBoss : (21 June 2019 - 01:16 AM)

Alpha Q, and U, but not U.

@  Steevy Maximus : (20 June 2019 - 08:55 PM)

KISS Players

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 June 2019 - 07:15 PM)

Ultra Q

@  TheMightyMol... : (20 June 2019 - 03:15 PM)

So which series is 90s American Godzilla?

@  Dekafox : (20 June 2019 - 03:12 PM)

So G1 Marvel would be Showa Transformers then

@  NotVeryKnightly : (20 June 2019 - 12:37 PM)

Yes.

@  RichardT1977 : (20 June 2019 - 12:05 PM)

Is it weeby of me to refer to the two IDW TF continuities as Heisei and Reiwa? I mean, the switchover almost perfectly lines up with the change of eras...

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 June 2019 - 10:35 AM)

I hate when the spicy version of something isn't spicy!

@  Pennpenn : (20 June 2019 - 08:43 AM)

I hate it when the spicy version of something is in almost identical packaging to the non-spicy version. Especially when I don't notice until I've got home.

@  TheMightyMol... : (19 June 2019 - 05:44 PM)

They make a lot of pills for that.

@  Nevermore : (19 June 2019 - 05:42 PM)

I got the results of the test back. I definitely have no sense of humor.

@  Paladin : (18 June 2019 - 05:59 PM)

so anyway how is your sex life?

@  TheMightyMol... : (18 June 2019 - 10:50 AM)

These jokes are tearing me apart.

@  unluckiness : (18 June 2019 - 08:55 AM)

Only if the customer reviews give it all high marks.

@  Patch : (18 June 2019 - 04:42 AM)

Are they going to call it "I-Did-Nawtflix?"

@  unluckiness : (18 June 2019 - 12:48 AM)

I see, so what the world needs is a Tommy Wiseau streaming service.

@  TM2-Megatron : (17 June 2019 - 11:02 PM)

Well, Conan did start the trend that resulted in a wave of Barbarian films in the mid to late 80s

@  MEDdMI : (17 June 2019 - 10:57 PM)

I keep wanting to read Corman as Conan

@  TM2-Megatron : (17 June 2019 - 10:29 PM)

There needs to be some streaming service that caters to connoisseurs of schlock. Otherwise, a huge part of our cultural history will be wiped away. While many of these films are available on blu-ray, with more coming out each month, it's good they're also available for the streaming crowd.

@  TM2-Megatron : (17 June 2019 - 10:18 PM)

Corman did make an impressive number of barbarian films back in the day. If impressive is the word

@  Steevy Maximus : (17 June 2019 - 08:11 PM)

I mean, where else are you going to see the entire Roger Corman barbarian fantasy library (legally) for free?

@  Steevy Maximus : (17 June 2019 - 08:09 PM)

Oh Tubi TV, you are a haven for terrible films. Netflix, Hulu and Crackle all push for mainstream appeal and prestige, you got the guts to have ready access to dregs even the SyFy channel wouldn't air

@  ▲ndrusi : (17 June 2019 - 01:33 PM)

Also you have Bayonetta and a bunch of Fire Emblem people.

@  ▲ndrusi : (17 June 2019 - 01:33 PM)

...I mean, Tales character. Probably up to/for it.


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The Vok, Swarm, and Earth: What the hell happened?

Vok Earth Humanity Swarm Beast Era G2 Wings Universe Marvel

117 replies to this topic

#1 That One Guy

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 11:34 PM

How exactly do the Vok, Swarm, and Earth relate to one another in the context of the Beast Era? Early concepts involving the Vok depicted them as an evolved version of the Swarm that ended up destroying Earth and it's sector of space, causing the Maximal High Council to ban travel to and from the area. While this never made it into Beast Wars, the Swarm is referenced in Primeval Dawn, as well as the One. As for Earth, the assumed reason for the ban was to keep time traveling warmongerers away and preserve history, although this is (as far as I know) pure assumption.

Wings Universe, the Marvel G2 comics, and Primeval Dawn all involved the Swarm somehow, but the specifics are anyone's guess. Primeval Dawn posits the idea that the Vok wish to atone for their past sins as the Swarm by guiding Earth to Utopia, although given that history did not unfold that way, how would the Vok ever believe this is a good idea and totally not doomed to fail even though it already did? Unless their plan was to rewrite all of history with an enormous time storm, although that would also destroy everything they did and the entirety of the Beast Era. My head hurts.

So I ask the community, how do all these pieces fit? Is there a logical explanation for how this all works (that doesn't destroy history many times over and create a big paradox), or are the Vok just a vague concept doomed to make little sense? Until further notice, I'm going with the idea that the entire solar system is in a quantum lock due to the constant threats of history being rewritten while it's happening and already did happen (think what Doctor Who did with the Time War. Seal it all away to preserve reality).

Edited by That ONE Guy, 29 December 2018 - 11:37 PM.


#2 Sabrblade

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:44 AM

are the Vok just a vague concept doomed to make little sense?

 

LgtRAqk.jpg

 

 

I'll leave it to Vector Prime with this one:

Dear Vociferous Vok Vagrant,

 
The Vok are strange and mysterious creatures, with motives opaque to outsiders, even myself. They swim in the streams of time and reality like oxide sharks in a rust sea, navigating the waters of existence with ease. Decoding what they know, why the act, may well prove impossible. Even their origins are shrouded in mystery; are they the future of humanity, hyper-evolved and free of the constraints of linear space/time? The Swarm, made ascendant? Those Who Came Before, who survived the birthpangs of the multiverse? Perhaps all of the above and more, for the multiverse is indeed vast.

Edited by Sabrblade, 30 December 2018 - 12:45 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#3 NightViper

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:51 AM

The Vok manipulate Transformers lore and interfere in the lives of Cybertronians in ways that fit their ever-fluctuating whims. They build entire worlds just to watch when they tear them down. And go back to do it again. They grant individuals powers and life then take it away.

The Vok are all of us. Playing with our Transformers toys.


Edited by NightViper, 30 December 2018 - 09:19 AM.


#4 LV!

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 11:26 AM

whats going on here VOK, I thought the mission was to be mild,this is too extreme, surly unicron will awaken.


#5 Kup

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:40 PM

I remember reading that the Vok were intended to be attempting to atone for wiping out Earth during G2.

Assume for a minute thats true, wouldnt it be fanfic-cool if the Marvel G1/G2 came first, then the Vok go back in time, the Beast Wars happen, and this sets in motion the Sunbow G1. Sort of a Star Trek 09 reboot, so to speak.

I wonder if this idea was ever thrown out on ATT or other message boards before I got back into the fandom in 99...?

Edited by Kup, 30 December 2018 - 12:41 PM.

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#6 MidnightFox

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 02:33 PM

Nothing involving or comparable to Abrams Trek can be classified as "cool".

#7 That One Guy

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:54 PM

Assume for a minute thats true, wouldnt it be fanfic-cool if the Marvel G1/G2 came first, then the Vok go back in time, the Beast Wars happen, and this sets in motion the Sunbow G1. Sort of a Star Trek 09 reboot, so to speak.
I wonder if this idea was ever thrown out on ATT or other message boards before I got back into the fandom in 99...?

Not a bad theory. That explanation could allow Furman's personal canon timeline for the Beast Era (G1,G2, BW, and RtOP) all have happened, and then have the Vok reset reality, letting the more Sunbow oriented Beast Era (G1 cartoon, DoFP, BW, BM, the Wreckers, and Universe) happen as well, resolving any discrepancies. The more comic based stuff could be pre-Vok, the cartoon based fiction post-Vok. I suppose Primeval Dawn would be difficult to place, though since it leads into the Wreckers, I suppose it would be post-Vok, with the Vok simply alluding to what they did/plan to do (it's all wibbly wobbly timey wimey).

EDIT: As another thought, perhaps the inconsistencies between the Marvel based fiction and Sunbow based fiction are the result of the Vok constantly rewriting history as it's happening, so all of the events occuring are 'true' to some extent, but then rendered paradoxical at the same time due to future (or past) edits to the timeline. So in a way, the Marvel and Sunbow backstories are both true at the same time, making neither true and producing an ever shifting blend until one version is settled on.


The Vok are all of us. Playing with our Transformers toys.

This.

Edited by That ONE Guy, 30 December 2018 - 04:09 PM.


#8 That One Guy

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 03:58 PM

As an alternative theory, maybe the Vok are the in-multiverse forms of the writers, all powerful and all knowing beings that shape everything and have motives indecipherable to the rest of creation, because they are the makers of creation. Any conflicting origins or motives can be explained as multiple writers (Vok) butting heads over continuity, forever trying to out-fanwank the other in an endless game that constantly alters the lore forever.

#9 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:39 PM

Beast Wars was made up as it went along. Bob and Larry never knew at the end of each season if there would be another one. NONE of the G1 tie-in stuff was planned until they found ATT and learned about it.

The Vok were particularly made-up-as-it-went-along. Bob and Larry never even really agreed among themselves what they were supposed to be.

And what little author intentist backstory we've gotten is stupid. The Vok blew up Earth a million times and recreated it every time but were afraid of Megatron blowing it up because flerpty flerp. Stuff with the Swarm only makes it worse.

Just don't think about it. Remember BW for the dialogue and character dynamics and battle choreography. Ignore all the "backstory" and (*cough*) "fan clarifications". Lookin' at you, BC16....

Edited by Thylacine 2000, 30 December 2018 - 04:40 PM.


#10 Tyranno

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:44 PM

it's not just the stuff outside the show that make the Vok inconsistent and hard to reconcile with stuff. Their motives in the later season actively contradict their motives earlier in the show.

 

Making it up as you go along is one thing, but at least keep it consistent with what came before.


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#11 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:12 PM

Expectations in that area were pretty low at the time. We were still well before TV started being taken seriously in the US, especially in serial storytelling. 

 

I still feel like the Vok are more or less acceptable as a dumb plot device, but everything fans have attempted to insert later makes them much worse, and the Swarm idea most of all. (I don't care that it was something one of the story editors thought about at one time, they didn't put it in and fans later did.)

 

I remember reading that the Vok were intended to be attempting to atone for wiping out Earth during G2.

 

I just ... I love that they would have accomplished this by wiping out Earth again, but in the past. It makes so much sense. XD


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#12 Tyranno

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:15 PM

It's just not one of those things that replaces something less interesting (like Megatron's "real" motivation being revealed to have nothing to do with Energon), and makes the whole arc involving them even more vague and pointless. I don't think it's unfair to judge it negatively.


"Disabled people don’t have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isn’t a “special need”. It’s a basic human right. It’s a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


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#13 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:43 PM

I mean, I'm not saying it isn't a weakness of the show, and any defense of it is somewhere between "doesn't age well" and "a nice effort under the circumstances", or at the very best "it just wasn't a big part of what they were doing." I do think the BotCon stuff was a whole other order of dumb, but it was alongside things like killing Wheelie and Daniel because lol, so I don't know why I'd expect otherwise. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#14 Sabrblade

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:14 AM

As an alternative theory, maybe the Vok are the in-multiverse forms of the writers, all powerful and all knowing beings that shape everything and have motives indecipherable to the rest of creation, because they are the makers of creation. Any conflicting origins or motives can be explained as multiple writers (Vok) butting heads over continuity, forever trying to out-fanwank the other in an endless game that constantly alters the lore forever.

So... the two Vok from the episode were actually Bob and Larry? :p

 

 

I still feel like the Vok are more or less acceptable as a dumb plot device, but everything fans have attempted to insert later makes them much worse, and the Swarm idea most of all. (I don't care that it was something one of the story editors thought about at one time, they didn't put it in and fans later did.)

That's true for the Beast Wars Glossary, yes, but Primeval Dawn Part 1 was written by Bob forward himself.


Edited by Sabrblade, 31 December 2018 - 12:24 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
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QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#15 That One Guy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:29 AM

So... the two Vok from the episode were actually Bob and Larry? :p


Precisely! :p

#16 Copper Bezel

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:29 AM

Oof. I didn't realize that. Wow. Huh. There's a life lesson in this somewhere.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#17 That One Guy

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:31 AM

Oof. I didn't realize that. Wow. Huh. There's a life lesson in this somewhere.

When talking about the Vok, there's always something meta going on :)

#18 Fear or Courage

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

I mean, I don't know about the more fanciful ideas from Bob and Larry's shpiels about what they are and what they were trying to do, but the part about the Vok trying to engage in a controlled, guided cultural evolution of humanity into enlightenment for whatever reason certainly tracks with their actions on the show. Given the nature of some of their tests (reasoning versus destructive capability), it feels like their aversion to the Transformers being there was a Prime Directive-esque cultural contamination problem, polluting their controlled evolution experiment to the point where they were, apparently, willing to torch the whole place over it. 

 

On the other hand, the Ark being buried on Earth the whole time doesn't really fit with that, since their experiment was already contaminated, but it's easy to just say that they're not as all-seeing and all-knowing as they'd like us to think, and literally never checked inside that one mountain.

 

That's how I've been thinking of it during my rewatch, anyway.


Edited by Fear or Courage, 02 January 2019 - 03:51 PM.


#19 Locoman

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:59 PM

Maybe the Vok wanted to guide humanity in such a way so that when the Ark reactivated in 1984, the humans would be technologically and socially prepared to fight back against the Decepticons.

Edited by Locoman, 02 January 2019 - 04:00 PM.


#20 Copper Bezel

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:45 PM


The Vok didn't seem to me more particularly interested in humans than any other species on the planet that I recall, and they tried to kill everything regardless when the Transformers showed up, but in a way that didn't particularly allow them to easily reset the experiment or actually remove the Transformers. They'd planned for this eventuality by building an orbital megastructure disguised as a moon, which would apparently slow bake the planet in the event of an emergency. They'd also apparently left the planet just hanging out until someone set off the right device, disguised as a primitive structure that might be built by a species that didn't actually live on the planet as such in case, er, they could confuse some space archeologists, but got really interested in the planet again now and then when they were needed for plot devices. And apparently there's a flying island with a security system, for some reason. 

 

I really don't see anything resembling a goal or objective here.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 




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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Vok, Earth, Humanity, Swarm, Beast Era, G2, Wings Universe, Marvel

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