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@  TheMightyMol... : (06 April 2020 - 01:52 PM)

Lesson learned: RTFM.

@  wonko the sane? : (06 April 2020 - 11:45 AM)

It's time for todays lesson! Did you know there's a wrong way to install a chainsaw blade? I didn't. I thought the damn thing was just blunted, but nope. Backwards.

@  CORVUS : (05 April 2020 - 06:41 PM)

CONTAGION is on my current watchlist. I'm kicking it off with OUTBREAK, and I have a whole lineup of pandemic-based films. I treat this stuff as a fear-innoculant.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (05 April 2020 - 03:52 PM)

My point is that of late, Taiwan's government executed lockdown procedures to great success. Vietnam has done similarly.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (05 April 2020 - 03:34 PM)

Didn't SARS just suddenly stop before it got very far?

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (05 April 2020 - 03:24 PM)

*raises eyebrows due to familial knowledge of SARS*

@  Steevy Maximus : (05 April 2020 - 01:43 PM)

It was uncomfortably real in 2011, it's downright scary in relation to the current pandemic.

@  Steevy Maximus : (05 April 2020 - 01:42 PM)

It is, almost to an uncomfortable point.The virus portrayed in that film was FAR more aggressive and fatal than Coronavirus, but the sourcing and spread and impact hit REALLY close to home compared to what we're dealing with now

@  Maximus Ambus : (05 April 2020 - 04:50 AM)

Actually on the subject, I've hard a lot of people refer to a 2011 film called Contagion that they think is relevant.

@  Maximus Ambus : (05 April 2020 - 01:11 AM)

Ah well, I'll stick to the classic British sitcoms: One Foot in the Grave, Til Death Do Us Part and They Think It's All Over.

@  TM2-Megatron : (05 April 2020 - 12:53 AM)

There's always the original, cheesy as it is

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (05 April 2020 - 12:10 AM)

Dunno... Tonight one of the major networks showed a movie with plagues.. including that listening to their leader causes the first born to die. ;P So nah.. I think the Stand could work. :D

@  TM2-Megatron : (04 April 2020 - 09:18 PM)

That's probably the last thing anyone needs to see, at the moment. Maybe when we get to the end of June/beginning of July and we can venture back out, it might be possible to find some enjoyment in The Stand.

@  Maximus Ambus : (04 April 2020 - 02:08 PM)

I suppose the CBS adaptation of Stephen Kings The Stand will be delayed.

@  Rycochet : (04 April 2020 - 11:26 AM)

We'll always be together. Together in electric dreams.

@  Rycochet : (04 April 2020 - 11:25 AM)

Please remember that in these times of social distancing, we'll always be together however far it seems.

@  wonko the sane? : (03 April 2020 - 12:41 PM)

It arrived! Yay!

@  wonko the sane? : (03 April 2020 - 11:25 AM)

Given how the virus lasts about 3-4 days on metals and plastics, it's about the only way to go about getting stuff right now. I ordered a monitor mount for my desk and the delivery has been pushed back twice already.

@  Maximus Ambus : (03 April 2020 - 11:04 AM)

He ordered it online, says it was to keep those delivery boys in business. I did the same a week ago with some Transformers Studio Series figures off Kapow. Don't know if it's wise or not considering.

@  wonko the sane? : (03 April 2020 - 09:12 AM)

You'd be the first. Everyone else has either been frustrated cause the one they wanted was sold out (like during boxing week.) or rushing to replace something broken.

@  RYNO : (03 April 2020 - 08:53 AM)

I actually walked into a store the other day and just randomly decided to buy at 32inch TV. It was just a Vizio, and grabbed a Mounting Bracket for it. No duress. Just a spur of the moment wanted a TV for my master bedroom.

@  wonko the sane? : (03 April 2020 - 07:31 AM)

Conversely: I've never met a person who wasn't buying a TV under duress... so... yeah.

@  wonko the sane? : (03 April 2020 - 07:20 AM)

I think I've met maybe two people other than myself who count cables before buying a TV.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (03 April 2020 - 05:33 AM)

Seriously.. HDMI splitters and switches are so bloody finicky, but most tvs don't have enough inputs.

@  Maximus Ambus : (03 April 2020 - 05:09 AM)

Just spent a hour trying to get my brothers new Samsung TV to read his Playstation and Blu Ray player only to find he was using a HDMI splitter.

@  Steevy Maximus : (02 April 2020 - 11:07 AM)

I could never master oral bullshittery. But in my day I was quite adept with the written word.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (01 April 2020 - 11:32 PM)

You have mastered the art of Bulljive. You must use this power only for good, or entertainment.

@  Sabrblade : (01 April 2020 - 08:58 PM)

This morning, for one of my online classes, I had to give a positive oral presentation about a play that I hated having to watch. I went into it completely unprepared and just winged it. My professor LOVED my presentation and thought it was excellent. She believed every word I said and honestly thought that I enjoyed that miserable play. Best April Fools ever!

@  ▲ndrusi : (01 April 2020 - 10:06 AM)

Happy Everyone Thinks They're A Comedian Now Day!

@  Donocropolis : (31 March 2020 - 05:45 AM)

Who, I might add, has never been photographed together with Byteman. Just sayin'.

@  Sabrblade : (30 March 2020 - 10:27 PM)

Bruce Wayne's cyberpunk cousin?

@  PlutoniumBoss : (30 March 2020 - 09:27 PM)

Laser Wayne

@  Sabrblade : (30 March 2020 - 09:08 PM)

Luther Unum

@  PlutoniumBoss : (30 March 2020 - 07:09 PM)

Or Lee Derwon.

@  Steevy Maximus : (30 March 2020 - 06:51 PM)

Not to be confused with Leader I

@  Steevy Maximus : (30 March 2020 - 06:50 PM)

He was Leader Uno

@  Steevy Maximus : (30 March 2020 - 06:50 PM)

He was the OTHER Leader 1

@  TheMightyMol... : (30 March 2020 - 06:29 PM)

Or Sideways.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (30 March 2020 - 05:26 PM)

On the other hand, this is Armada we're talking about. It could have actually been Metroplex.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (28 March 2020 - 11:08 PM)

Oh yeah, that was Fort Max. My bad.

@  LBD "Nyt... : (28 March 2020 - 09:12 PM)

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Peritus_Maximus

@  LBD "Nyt... : (28 March 2020 - 09:11 PM)

Christmas Maximus?

@  Maximus Ambus : (28 March 2020 - 01:13 PM)

At least the ozone layer is healing. unless this is a 0.0000000001% thing it's sounds like good news.

@  ▲ndrusi : (28 March 2020 - 09:27 AM)

(But only pretty sure, not 100% sure.)

@  ▲ndrusi : (28 March 2020 - 09:26 AM)

Pretty sure y'all were thinking of Fortress Maximus yesterday.

@  Bass X0 : (28 March 2020 - 12:38 AM)

Dare! Dare to believe you can survive 2020!

@  Steevy Maximus : (27 March 2020 - 08:18 PM)

Baja Blast is back at retail!

@  TheMightyMol... : (27 March 2020 - 03:47 PM)

Shame he wasn't around more. He seemed like such a jolly, happy soul.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (27 March 2020 - 02:16 PM)

No, he was definitely Metroplex. You could tell because he was in Metroplex's distinctive red and green coloration.

@  Paladin : (27 March 2020 - 02:11 PM)

that was Leader-1. or possibly Jolt. maybe Grindor...


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Canonicity of Beast Wars Universe

Beast Wars Japan Books Optimus Prime G1 Canon Lore Continuity

10 replies to this topic

#1 That One Guy

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:48 PM

I've never purchased a copy of the Beast Wars Universe book, so I'm curious as to how canon it's contents are in relation to American Beast Wars lore. The book is written almost entirely in Japanese, or so I've heard, yet it details characters and events following American continuity standards, which baffles me.

Furthermore, and this is a much smaller inquiry, the notes section for Optimus Prime (G1) on TFWiki states that the staff of Beast Wars said Prime became a space explorer in the Beast Era. As I am unable to find a copy of the original text stating this (without, of course, buying the book), I haven't been able to examine this for myself. I'm assuming this statement is no more canon than the ideas for the Vok involving the Swarm and G2 comic lore, although I could be wrong.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.

Edited by That ONE Guy, 21 December 2018 - 10:49 PM.


#2 Sabrblade

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 10:23 AM

The Vok being from the Swarm did come about in both the 3H Primeval Dawn comics and later in the Beast Wars Glossary of the IDW Beast Wars Sourcebook.

 

As for the book itself, for once, I'm not the one to ask of this since, while I do have scans of the book, my knowledge of its contents is very limited since I'm no professional expert when it comes to reading Japanese (I've a basic understanding of its alphabets and sentence structures, but I can't read all Kanji and don't know every Japanese word by heart).

 

To my knowledge, only certain sections of the book have been translated into English, but which are like one interview with Larry DiTillio and a couple of pages about the toys.

 

As for things about Optimus Prime, here is the page in question for anyone here who may be able to read/translate what it says about Optimus:

 

E8TAibQ.jpg


Edited by Sabrblade, 17 June 2019 - 05:18 PM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#3 That One Guy

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 03:45 PM

No luck yet getting the image translated. Tis a shame, I was hoping I could see for myself the wording of the statements involving Prime. His fate in the mainstream Beast Era timeline (no IDW or Japan) is annoyingly contradictory. Things would make some sort of sense if it wasn't for Arcee's one line at Rodimus' funeral. For the sake of preserving my sanity and my story, I may just write that line off as Arcee being flat out wrong (I mean hey, living underground as a crazy Maximal without any other interaction for three centuries is probably not the best for mental stability).

#4 Jalaguy

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 04:43 PM

For what it's worth, Google Translating the final sentence of that Optimus bio results in:

"It is still alive and still in the position of a major member of the High Council, but rather that he is devoted to exploring the universe (staff talk)."

EDIT: The Megatron bio, meanwhile, seems to say that he disappeared immediately after Pax Cybertronia (possibly having already turned back into Megatron from Galvatron?), and is now rumoured to be dead.

Edited by Jalaguy, 23 December 2018 - 04:57 PM.


#5 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 05:42 PM

Its "background" material is not canon at all. The idea that the Vok had already destroyed Earth multiple times and re-created it every time is clearly just an early brainstorm not that never appeared in any story and is flatly contradicted by them - why would they care about Megatron destroying the Ark? Why would it cause a timestorm at all? There was a lot of BW "background" that was never canon, like "A Greater Ape" and the notion that the Vok invented sparks and whatnot.

#6 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 07:02 PM

That "staff talk" tag does make it sound like this is just something they discussed rather than committed into canon.

#7 That One Guy

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 07:04 PM

Thank you very much Jalaguy for the translation, I am in your debt. As for the canonicity of said text, Thylacine 2000 is likely correct in his assessment that most of it is non canon until further notice. That being said, the fates of Prime and Megatron (Galvatron?) are so ambiguous that at least some of the text could be considered as an alternate perspective (precious few still live who know the real truth, so who's to say the developers are wrong?)

Megatron is almost certainly dead, for he was being immitated by Flamewar in The Razor's Edge, and Cyclonus vaguely mentioned that Galvatron had failed the Decepticon cause. This would jive pretty well with the developer comments, as Megatron dying or vanishing around the time of the Pax Cybertronia would explain the rapid decline of the Decepticon Empire (and subsequent rise of the Predacons under Razorclaw).

EDIT: This explanation also jives with Wings Universe lore fairly well, considering Galvatron was critically injured just before the Machine Wars and subsequent signing of the Pax Cybertronia. It's plausible he could have died shortly afterwards and was remembered as Megatron by history (like how Augustus Caesar is commonly remembered as simply Octavian). Flamewar could've then used the myth of his survival to rally supporters to her band of rogue Decepticons and Predacons.


Prime is much trickier, because Reaching the Omega Point depicted him as 'alive' in J'nwan (the nature of J'nwan straddles the line between spiritual and physical, so even that is ambiguous). That being said, the events of Reaching tbe Omega Point were set almost exclusively in the Marvel Comics version of Beasts Wars, where as nearly all other Beast Era fiction used the G1 cartoon as it's history (case and point being the Wreckers). Further compounding the issue is that the timeline said Optimus was from got subsequently erased from the Multiverse, leaving him stranded in parts unknown after escaping through a time portal.

Shifting back to the more cartoon oriented fiction, the Beast Machines episode 'The Search' implies Prime died, but said implication was given by Megatron in a ruse to fool Primal, so the legitimacy of his claim is very dubious. Then, in the Wreckers, Arcee flat out says that Prime is dead and that Rodimus is with him now. However, her claim is also dubious, as Rodimus wasn't Autobot leader by the Great War's end (who else besides him would assume leadership if Prime had died?), and she had locked herself underground in exile for centuries, growing more than a little crazy. So then, how legitimate is her claim? More legitimate than Megatron's, but that isn't saying much.

Given the contradictory and extremely dubious circumstances, I think it's fair for one to choose the space explorer answer for Prime. Besides, who here really wants to hear that Prime up and died again right before Cybertron achieved peace? That's just depressing and leaves nobody happy, and also invalidates his multiple revivals in both the Marvel Comics and G1 cartoon (depending on which continuity you choose to be the past of the Beast Era, if any continuity at all).

Edited by That ONE Guy, 23 December 2018 - 07:13 PM.


#8 Sabrblade

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 11:28 PM

I always just kinda interpreted J'nwan as being a sort of psuedo-afterlife type place. Not quite the Allspark, but not quite the living world; somewhat accessible from the latter through physical (if exorbitantly excruciating) means (and only by those like Sandstorm who was actually capable of reaching it), but mainly reserved for those special individuals worthy of being welcomed into it at the end of their lifespan, being allowed to continue their life in peace after its natural and finite end in the living world, rather than becoming part of the collective whole of all sparks in the, well, Allspark.

 

This is sort of a combined view of how J'nwan was depicted in both "Reaching the Omega Point" (a physical, if reality-boggling, location on Cybertron) and "The Last Days of Optimus Prime" (in which Optimus is sort of just whisked away to there all spiritual-like as though to show that he has finally died and passed on).

 

As for Arcee's line, we may never know if she knew of which place, exactly, that Optimus ended up in upon his death, be it J'nwan or the Allspark. She could just be presuming the latter, or even presuming (without stating outright) that Rodimus's spark was welcomed into J'nwan too.


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#9 That One Guy

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 11:51 PM

And then there's the question of if Optimus even went to J'nwan at all in the 'revised' version of history or not, which is anyone's guess. In reality it's a clash of creative vision and authorial intent resulting in headaches and fanwanking for all (which I sort of love because it gives me an excuse to nerd out over Transformers).

I personally enjoy the idea that when we see G1 Optimus at the end of Rise of the Dark Spark, it's him as a space explorer checking out some random planet and just stumbling upon the Dark Spark at the wrong time. There's absolutely no evidence for this (and I hate that game), but nobody can say I'm wrong either. I do enjoy your idea of J'nwan, Sabrblade, it handily mixes the more spiritual and physically aspects of the realm quite nicely. A fitting end to Optimus, whichever one that may be in the end.

Given that NightViper mentioned WU Prime and Galvatron entering J'nwan, maybe it's something like Maccadam's Old Oil House where it exists across the Multiverse, serving as a place where multiple Primes and Megatrons of yore can venture. Perhaps when multiple Primes meet, they end up becoming something like the Alternity and form a single Prime out of many. Or I'm chugging on engex and should be ignored, it's 50/50 on that one.

Edited by That ONE Guy, 23 December 2018 - 11:53 PM.


#10 Sabrblade

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Posted 24 December 2018 - 12:09 AM

I kinda figured that J'nwan might exist outside the natural flow of time and space, as though as to say that, even if Shokaract's future timeline was erased, J'nwan and all who inhabited it during that future timeline were unaffected.

 

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey, pseudo-afterlife-y stuff and all that.


Edited by Sabrblade, 24 December 2018 - 12:10 AM.

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#11 That One Guy

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Posted 24 December 2018 - 11:24 AM

Hmm, maybe so, maybe so. It's all so vague that personal canon is about the best answer we have to all of it (aside from asking 'ol Simon, of course). Also, nice Doctor Who reference! That line is my personal go to when describing the Multiverse to someone.

Edited by That ONE Guy, 24 December 2018 - 11:31 AM.




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