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@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 06:16 PM)

Which crisis crossover are we on now? I lost track.

@  Rycochet : (09 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

Much of the past decade has been the part of the comic series where less than stellar authors have driven the series into the ground and the editors are getting ready to either do a big multi issue crossover, leading to a reboot.

@  Bass X0 : (09 August 2020 - 02:28 PM)

At this point I've just decided to consider 2020 "not canon."

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 02:18 PM)

'member Pepperidge Farm?

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 August 2020 - 02:10 PM)

Before the 'member berries there was Pepperidge farm. Pepperidge farm remembers.

@  OverDrive73 : (09 August 2020 - 12:21 PM)

>>>Shameless Plug<<< FYI. posted the last part of Quest for Tires in Allspark Pictures

@  SG Roadbuster : (08 August 2020 - 01:53 PM)

@Nevermore yes.

@  Nevermore : (08 August 2020 - 09:11 AM)

Is $30 a good deal for Subscription Service Breakdown?

@  Trpodeca : (08 August 2020 - 06:24 AM)

Oh dear God no. Twitter has changed it's default layout to the terrible new one. Why waste so much space on the left?

@  Steevy Maximus : (07 August 2020 - 08:28 PM)

@Bass X0, yeah, the Joe comic got REALLY solid in the upper 20s to the Cobra Civil War. It's interesting to see how well the Joe comic has aged relative to the cartoon. Where as I feel the opposite is true of Transformers

@  -LittleAutob... : (07 August 2020 - 03:58 PM)

Its so fun watching past TF Conventions.

@  Bass X0 : (07 August 2020 - 02:20 PM)

I've been reading classic 80s G.I. Joe lately. Its still decent even though I don't have any nostalgia towards it.

@  Sabrblade : (07 August 2020 - 08:50 AM)

Think of it as Adam West Batman instead. ;)

@  wonko the sane? : (07 August 2020 - 07:49 AM)

That sounds more like the flash, or maybe booster gold than batman.

@  Sabrblade : (07 August 2020 - 12:27 AM)

They would get bored fighting each other and instead decide to take an epic cross-country road trip together.

@  RichardT1977 : (06 August 2020 - 08:57 PM)

What would happen if Batman were to fight Squirrel Girl?

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 09:03 PM)

Unless you count the Mask vs Lobo special, but that's less a duel and more a duet.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 08:52 PM)

My favorite crossover fight was Thor vs Shazam/Captain Marvel. Early in the fight, Thor discovers that Billy Batson needs lightning to transform, and being a god of lightning he simply denies him that.

@  Sabrblade : (04 August 2020 - 08:46 PM)

Let's see a fight between Death Battle and Super Power Beat Down

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

Which Lobo later claimed was because he was paid to take a dive. Yes, really.

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

And then there's the times it's been decided by a fan vote, which is how we get things like Lobo (who can go toe-to-toe with Superman at full strength) losing to Wolverine.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

And then there are the "but my favorite characater will totes win because I say so" people.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

I mean, there are some people who really approach this from a somewhat reasonable standpoint, coming up with a plausible scenario and a setting that creates a fair environment that doesn't favor one character.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:46 PM)

My favorite stupid "why would they even fight each other" question recently was about three versions of Optimus Prime (G1, Bayverse and Aligned).

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:45 PM)

Batman obviously can beat everyone. Even Galactus. He's Batman. He's so smart, he'll just throw a Batarang and hit the weak spot at Galactus's forehead, knocking him out instantaneously.

@  wonko the sane? : (04 August 2020 - 11:37 AM)

It's almost like all drama is just manufactured pissing contests to keep us all entertained and distracted. :p

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (04 August 2020 - 10:16 AM)

Or they could go White Ranger vs Scorpion route and have both win. ;P

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Besides, we all know the answer is nearly always "they fight to a standstill and then team up against a common enemy."

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:29 AM)

The best way to prove this is to give an example where the match is really lopsided in favor of one character but in popularity they're either evenly matched or the weaker one is more popular.

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:27 AM)

The "who would win in a fight" discussions are really just people trying to make "which one's better" into something you can theoretically measure objectively, usually in a very specific way they think they've predetermined their favorite will win.

@  Otaku : (04 August 2020 - 02:01 AM)

@Nevermore So... you're saying you didn't like DC Versus Marvel/Marvel Versus DC?

@  Steevy Maximus : (03 August 2020 - 06:59 PM)

So, what happened to Hasbro's Zoids relaunch? An English dub, some stuff in southeast Asia, and now a game coming in October? That it?

@  wonko the sane? : (03 August 2020 - 10:46 AM)

Tidal wave, cause shooting water gets you nowhere.

@  Darth Gonzo : (03 August 2020 - 09:57 AM)

Who would win Tidal Wave or Broadside?

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 August 2020 - 08:17 AM)

Btw Happy birthday to those people in the box to the right \o/

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 August 2020 - 08:16 AM)

The bottom line is obvious. It makes no literal sense to fight someone on your faction. :/

@  wonko the sane? : (03 August 2020 - 06:14 AM)

That's because you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to just stack skills and ability against each other. It's not the palace of doom, it's an episode of american gladiators.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:32 AM)

The only obvious winners of such a fight would be the bad guys.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:29 AM)

And what does it even matter? They should work together, not stupidly fight each other for the mindless entertainment of idiot onlookers.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:29 AM)

Why would two good guys fight each other? What are they fighting over?

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:28 AM)

I never understood these "who would win in a fight between two good guys" discussions. They make no sense to me.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 August 2020 - 04:17 PM)

If G1 had continued we'd have had Starscream back in spirit - through Krunk, Snapdragons partner and possibly Skullcruncher unless he was mute.

@  Bass X0 : (02 August 2020 - 12:28 PM)

There are some decent impersonators in fandubs though.

@  -LittleAutob... : (02 August 2020 - 10:45 AM)

The only true Starscream voices are Steve Blum and Chris Latta, hands down.

@  Sabrblade : (02 August 2020 - 10:14 AM)

Why they didn't have Scott McNeil voicing that Starscream, when he was the one who had imitated Chris Latta when he voiced Cobra Commander in the DiC G.I. Joe cartoon, is beyond me.

@  wonko the sane? : (02 August 2020 - 09:57 AM)

Say what you will, that was an awesome scene.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 August 2020 - 08:36 AM)

Beast Wars Starsream "I am AIR COMMANDER Starscream of the DECEPTICON BATTLEFLEET!"

@  Nevermore : (02 August 2020 - 07:02 AM)

I liked TF: Prime Starscream.

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 August 2020 - 08:36 PM)

Hearing Starscream's screechy voice in Cyberverse has to be the most annoying thing ever in Transformers. Even his G1 voice wasn't as bad. :doh

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 August 2020 - 08:35 PM)


- - - - -

How it's impossible to recast cinematic icons

54 replies to this topic

#41 D.M

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 07:26 AM

Here is a video by one of the best youtube critics of movies/TV shows known as Ocpcommunications who is one of my friends on youtube and here is his thoughts on why it's impossible to recast purely cinematic made for cinema icons like Freddy Krueger, Indiana Jones, Han Solo, Rocky Balboa, Ellen Ripley, Robocop, John McClane, John Rambo, Sarah Conner etc. which are entirely different than casting live action versions of book/video game/comic characters like Batman, James Bond, Superman, Pennywise, Jud Crandall, Dracula, Shakespear's characters, Frankenstein, Dr Moreau, Lara Croft, Wonder Woman, Punisher and more.
And there was some talk about replacing Ford with a new actors on Indiana Jones a while ago like 3 years ago. And i have a friend named Mike Brown who is a very popular youtube movie/show critic named Ocpcommunications and here is an excellent rant on recasting established original cinematic characters and how it's impossible to do that compared to recasting novel/comic/animated to live-action/video game characters like Pennywise, Jud Crandall, Captain Abhem, Dracula, Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Joker, Jack Torrence, Frodo Baggins etc.
Some people are actually defending recasting iconic film characters with different actors. And even more so with the recent release of Solo. They actually think that all film characters are fair game for a new actor portraying them.
And it's fine that they feel that way. But him and i vehemently disagree and I just don't understand. Sure. We both do have exceptions, like Bond (he was a literature character) or characters from novels or comic books or movie versions of TV show characters. But for the most part, me and him want beloved film characters (original characters made for film and not from other sources) to remain pure and untouched by half-assed or horrible attempts to recapture lightning in a bottle.
Some roles have actors that were born to play them and there really are no substitutes. Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones, Bill Murray as Peter Venkman, Sigourney Weaver as Ripley, Linda Hamilton as Sarah Conner, Bruce Willis as John McClane, Stallone as Rocky Balboa/John Rambo, Michael J. Fox as Marty McFly and Robert Englund as Freddy Krueger are all examples of this. And any actor that will attempt to play the character will pale in comparison. They have the charisma and personality that is unique only to them and that is what makes these characters so iconic and what brought them to life.
And don't give me the "They will make it their own" response. Make it their own means they will take the character and make it something completely alien to the character we all know and love in order to separate it from the original, potentially swap the genders, or just half-heartedly attempt to capture the same magic.
I have never seen a single remake, reboot or sequel with an original iconic character or film have a lead that is anywhere near as memorable or as effective as the original for these same reasons. The track record is abysmal like Freddy or Robocop (I agree with Ocpcommunications that Richard Eden from the TV show of Robocop is the closet thing to Weller for Robocop but none of them have the same charisma as Weller) and that is why him and I don't agree with the idea of every character in every film is fair game for a re-imagining.
What's the better option, continue to dig up popular original cinematic characters out of the grave every ten or twenty years and try to do the impossible and find the perfect actor to play the role again, or stop doing that and put that effort into finding new characters for a new generation?
There need to be limits. Otherwise, you get A wannabee John Cena as RoboCop, and a southern friend redneck Freddy who sounds like Sling blade. him and i would rather these iconic made-for-cinema (created by cinema) characters be retired on film and only brought back in books, comics, and video games then see lazy attempts by Hollywood to bring them back with new faces in "new" films just to piggyback off the success of the previous franchise.
Let these beloved made for cinema original characters that you love die and become legends, instead of live forever and become total jokes and nothing but hollow cash grabs".

So characters originating from print media can be played by anyone with James Bond as one of the example...  yet Rambo can't be played by anyone other than Stallone despite originating from a book?

And now, how to convince me you have nothing of value to say in a single sentence:

And besides, we've already proven that replacements work fine when we replaced Harold Ramis with Kate McKinnon

You mean in that Ballbusters film?

They do shoot the main ghost in the crotch, though.

Edited by D.M, 10 September 2018 - 07:28 AM.

#42 Detour


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Posted 10 September 2018 - 07:49 AM

I gotta ask, where do the cartoon/television show adaptations of film stand on this whole "you can't recast an icon!!!" claim?

Like, what about all the cartoon spin-offs of movies (The Real Ghostbusters, Men In Black) or TV adaptations or continuations or prequels to certain cinematic franchises (Young Indiana Jones, Lethal Weapon...)?

Is this also a sacred cow being sacrificed or is this somehow different?

You're far too young to be this bitter and angry at the world....

I'm reading that with Roy's voice. Heck, I read everything you post in a laconic Irish accent.


#43 Maruten

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 05:42 PM

Is this also a sacred cow being sacrificed or is this somehow different?




#44 Tm_Silverclaw

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 06:13 PM

I've got two instances that prove this wrong.

Optimus Prime and Red Ranger.


Sure.. Most people may not be able to say "Which Optimus Prime." or "Which Red Ranger." but every one knows who they are.

And they are cinematic icons.

#45 abates

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 07:50 PM

It's not recasting if they keep casting Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime, surely?

#46 Pennpenn

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 06:42 AM

Well I mean eventually they'll have to stop casting Cullen as Optimus regardless of how people feel about it...

#47 Egon1982

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 07:05 PM

I'm not sexist about anything or does the same critic who did the "recasting the impossible" who did his hilarious rant on Ghostbusters 2016 which he calls it because the GBs in the movie shoot the logo in the balls and it's not about what's inbetween the legs or that, it's about how awful the script was and all that.



For the new Freddy performance, i thought Jackie was pathetic as Freddy Krueger as he sounded like Sling Blade/Bale Batman and was laughable, he was void of soul, charisma and personality when Robert Englund is the ONE and ONLY true Freddy Krueger as Englund as Englund is the heartbeat/soul/DNA of the character as Englund even said so as he even disliked Jackie's Freddy as what a joke. There's also no substitutes for The Tallman and Ash Williams as those are original cinematic icons who's perfromance/character is tied to Angus Scrimm and Bruce Campbell for when Scrimm died, the Tallman died with him and when Robert dies one day, Freddy dies with him.


Bury Freddy and the Elm Street franchise to let it live on through merchandise/video games and all that to have it retire from film and make new horror icons/new horror franchises already. Freddy is not the same as masked silent killers like Leatherface, Michael and Jason where you can easily recast those characters because they don't talk, are lumbering physical presence than a pure performance and don't need charisma like Freddy.


Even this article is against the idea of recasting purely cinematic icons:


Right on Screenrant, no one else can be Marty and Doc Brown other than Michael J Fox and Christopher Lloyd as they are purely iconic and their DNA is in the characters. Even Zemeckis and Bob Gale said so.

#48 Daith


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Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:03 PM

I'll agree there are certain roles it is hard to imagine anyone else in those roles. A few on that Screenrant article included.


But I call BS on that. It's not impossible to remake something better than the original. True it is rare at times but it can happen. Freddy is a character I feel that has a decent chance of being recast. True matching Englund's charisma is tough but I'm sure there are other that could do the role justice.


But only Arnold as the only face of the Terminator was dead after T2. I mean it's not like anyone has tried to mirror exactly the feel of Arnold's presence in other Terminator media other than Arnold himself. But it's never made sense to me that Skynet would only have one body type or model of Terminator. If anything the growth of the version in T2 would be tough but saying only Arnold can be the terminator is just stupid to me. Yes his face is the icon of the brand but to me it's a face that could be changed. And it's been proven over the course of films since T2 that Arnolds face doesn't make the films good automaticly.


Uma Thurman as the Bride. HA!




I'm sorry was she trying to act in Kill Bill? No offense the Brides role could be filled by any action actress and I couldn't care any more or less.


Now as far as Harrison as Indy, Michael J Fox and Christopher Lloyd as Marty and Doc, Jeff Bridges as the Dude, and Bruce Campbell as Ash.... Good luck with that. I'll admit that Harrison is Indy and it'd be a miracle to even think of recasting the part, and certainly not with Shia. I've never even watched the Evil Dead or the Big Lebowski and even I know how Iconic Bruce and Jeff are to those roles. You talked about matching the charisma of Freddy. I never seen these films and I know these are sacred cows. But Then againI don't think it's impossible to recast but you'd never get the same as those two.


As for Marty and Doc, If the BttF franchise was to restart itself, it's way too late to even think of reusing Doc and Marty as anything outside of a cameo or side roles. Just like Star Wars needs to branch out beyond the Skywalker saga I think BttF could be redone with a different premise. I seem to remember Doc having two boys who both featured pretty heavily in the cartoon spinoff and grown versions could be a way to spinoff into a new story. There are multiple ways to have fun with Time Travel, who says it has to be only with Doc and Marty. True the comedic and dramatic chemistry between the two would be tough to match but it's just finding the right two.


And then there is Bueller, The Godfather, and Ripley. Broderick and Brando don't need to be recast because there's no reason to recast them. The Godfather movies are cinematic masterpieces and trying to remake them seems pointless. Bueller is a odd mystery as to why people even give a care about it to me. It's a fun movie, but it's such a generic teen movie I don't even see why it needs a sequel or continuation. I could see it like my BttF suggestion with it being Ferris's son or daughter and I could care less as long as Broderick pokes his head in one time.


Ripley doesn't need to be recast since there is no need for her to be the only badass xenomorph killer in the Galaxy. Recent female protagonists in the last two prequel films were a tad passive, but it's not like there is no other awesome female action stars. Just give them a decent film rather than the junk we've had in the last couple decades. I'd argue the only good Alien films are Alien and Aliens. But I'd also argue that every film since has been too try hard to either up the creepy or action factor.


But Dirty Harry and Rocky. Why? Dirty Harry I feel has run it's course and similarly with Rocky but Rocky is still going on with Creed continuing it anyways and from what I hear it's not bad. I feel both Eastwood and Stallone are iconic in those roles but those roles should just be retired. I just don't see the interest in them continuing. Bad cop movies are probably the last type of movie you want in the market right now, and Creed seems to be doing the underdog champion boxer series fine.

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#49 Destron D-69

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:11 PM

My go to answer to this is Doug Bradley as Pinhead... it just doesn't work without him. and that's been proven.



but *shrug* it's not something to get worked up over. at least not for me 

#50 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 01:18 PM

ANYTHING can be recast if the acting, script, and directing is good and on point. Any idea otherwise is silly.

-ZacWilliam, to pretend movie born icons are any different from literary or drama originating characters is childish silliness born in a personal attachment and nostalgia that one imagines into some universal rule
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#51 Maruten

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 07:37 PM

My go to answer to this is Doug Bradley as Pinhead... it just doesn't work without him. and that's been proven.


It may have been proven that it doesn't always work without him, but it absolutely has not been proven that it can't work without him. 


As for Indy, Sean Patrick Flanery is a no-brainer! He's no Ford, but he's already an established Indy. It would never happen, of course, but it would be interesting to see how that turned out.


#52 Bass X0

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 02:41 PM

I see they’re making a new “James Bond” movie...

Just because you can't win doesn't mean you stop working.

#53 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 02:48 PM

Yes, but it sounds like they're not recasting Bond, they're just having him retire and pass the 007 Codename to a successor.

-ZacWilliam, which is not really the same thing.

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 14 July 2019 - 02:49 PM.

Ever wonder about the speed of Turbofoxes?
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*Visit the one and only Cybertronic Bestiary.
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#54 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 02:49 PM

I see they’re making a new “James Bond” movie...

You know it would've made more sense for you to make a thread for that instead of bumping this.

#55 Destron D-69

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 11:04 PM

I thought I recognized that sexy bugger who made the post about Pinhead 

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