I'm not sure I hear it in Episode II, but Episode III I definitely hear it
I saw it in theaters and again right when the DVD came out. I probably ought to watch it again. I didn't hate the movie, but it was a lot of movie.
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Posted 09 April 2020 - 05:05 AM
RotS is probably the only prequel movie I would go back and watch again. The book was better. The movie cut a lot of important things that would've made Anakin's fall seem a bit less sudden. But it had its moments and was overall much better than the other prequel movies.
I actually enjoyed TRoS. It had its problems, sure. But I think most of the problems it had stemmed from having to follow the sabotage job Rian Johnson did with Last Jedi and they were reeling just trying to work with the crap he left them. Also, considering how much Leia was supposed to be in this one, Carrie Fisher's death had to hit hard.
But over all, I really did enjoy this one. I don't think anything has yet beaten the original trilogy, but I'm sure I'll be watching this one plenty more times in the future.
Posted 09 April 2020 - 10:11 AM
But I think most of the problems it had stemmed from having to follow the sabotage job Rian Johnson did with Last Jedi and they were reeling just trying to work with the crap he left them.
It isn't even just what he did. It's what he didn't do. Episode 7 ended with the First Order reeling from the loss of the Starkiller Base, the Resistance having won an important battle but now the First Order knows where they are, Rey ready to become a Jedi but needing a teacher. Episode 8 killed off Snoke, which is a change for better or worse. I thought that bit was actually interesting, one place where subverting expectations was kinda fun. Especially if the plan is to reveal he was a puppet anyway. But then you have the destruction of a ship we didn't even know about before the movie. The First Order is basically in the same position we saw at the end of Episode 8 except without Snoke. The end of Episode 8 left the Resistance looking pretty bleak. As far as we could tell maybe only a dozen survivors or something. But at the start of Episode 9 they look about how they did in 7 and lots of familiar faces and we accepted that. So we lost Admiral Ackbar. We lost Admiral Holdo and some ships we never knew about before 8. As Episode 9 begins, it is as if 8 had no effect on the Resistance at all. Ackbar doesn't appear, but the loss is not addressed in any way. They are still a ragtag hideout with some people and small ships. Rey ends Episode 8 as someone ready to be a Jedi and just needing a teacher. The only change to her is that Luke is off the table. I think that was an incorrect decision on Johnson's part, obviously. But aside from making a snarky movie that I don't think I'll ever want to see again, I think his biggest crime is that he made the middle movie of a trilogy and the only advancement he made in the story was to take Snoke and Luke off the table. You could split Episode 9 into two movies and throw Episode 8 out altogether and all you would have to do is work Luke and Snoke's deaths into the middle of that story and everything would end up exactly the same.
Posted 09 April 2020 - 12:25 PM
Posted 09 April 2020 - 12:49 PM
At some moment in some meeting it was decided that Episode 9 would be the culmination of something. A lot of mistakes proceeded directly from that bad idea. And as far as publicly presentation is concerned, it seems to have been a very recent idea. After Episode 8.
It was a big enough job just to finish up a trilogy when you only had 1.1 units of story out of the first two. But now it needed to reculminate the original trilogy that had already culminated pretty well. That took on a lot of baggage that needed screen time. And it also had to close the story arc on Rey and Ben, so they had to rush to a finish on that.
After Episode 8, they could have quietly stopped talking about a trilogy altogether. Episode 9 would only need to defeat the First Order (who we didn't bother defeating in the movie we got). And redeem Ben in some form or fashion. They wouldn't have killed him, I don't think, if they didn't need an efficient bow tied on his story arc in a hurry. Then the story of Episode 7-9 is that there will always be new threats in a new generation and good people will always have to get together to protect the galaxy. And if you never make an Episode 10, that's fine. But if you want to in 5 years you do it.
Posted 09 April 2020 - 08:59 PM
My biggest issue is the culmination of the nine movie saga sees the genetic legacy of the franchise's arch-villian taking the legacy and identity of the franchise's heroes as their own.
That is NOT how you draw the curtain on a story that has lasted for decades.
Posted 09 April 2020 - 10:08 PM
The trilogy keeps repeating this notion that Rey's heritage shouldn't define her, so it's pretty weird she'd "steal" someone else's legacy.
Plus, there's the weird implication that the saga has been this struggle between House Palpatine and House Skywalker... which isn't the case at all. Anakin and Luke's greatest foes have been their own darker sides, The Emperor's more of a personification of their sin than a direct enemy.
Plus plus, it's easy to take the cynical view and say Disney needed to secure that marketable "Skywalker" trademark after killing the family off to promote their own flagship character backfired spectacularly.
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