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@  Sabrblade : (13 August 2020 - 10:31 PM)

Turns out the President set the whole thing up as a publicity stunt. Very rude.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (13 August 2020 - 08:11 PM)

The ninjas will go away, it will be fine.

@  Paladin : (13 August 2020 - 08:02 PM)

listen; i'm sure there were very fine ninjas on both sides.

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 August 2020 - 07:50 PM)

My thoughts and prayers go out to the ninjas.

@  Cybersnark : (13 August 2020 - 06:36 PM)

Can we just let them have him?

@  Bass X0 : (13 August 2020 - 06:18 PM)

The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?

@  Otaku : (13 August 2020 - 03:08 PM)

At first, I obviously thought I was correct.  Then I thought perhaps the spelling had changed for some reason.  Copyright/trademark law is weird, ya know?  Now I just accept I goofed. XD

@  Otaku : (13 August 2020 - 03:07 PM)

See, that one directly applies to me.  Apparently, I'd been misreading and mispronouncing it wrong for over 30 years... and I still slip and do it the wrong way much of the time.

@  Paladin : (13 August 2020 - 07:37 AM)

for the Internet age its the "Berenstain" Effect.

@  Bass X0 : (12 August 2020 - 01:49 PM)

Can you root for what The Rock is cooking!?

@  -LittleAutob... : (12 August 2020 - 10:35 AM)

sOmEoNe NoTiCeD-

@  wonko the sane? : (12 August 2020 - 07:37 AM)

I am the only one rooting for the rock these days?

@  Maximus Ambus : (12 August 2020 - 12:37 AM)

Sour grapes for the next decade until Apophis hits.

@  Hg Dragon : (11 August 2020 - 11:26 PM)

Thank yoo for vatching hydroolic pthress chan-nel.

@  Hg Dragon : (11 August 2020 - 11:19 PM)

Hey, do you have any grapes?

@  Otaku : (11 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

I dunno... it sounds kind of quackers to me.

@  -LittleAutob... : (11 August 2020 - 05:17 PM)

That would be nice....

@  TheMightyMol... : (11 August 2020 - 04:36 PM)

I wish I could just sit by a pond and watch ducks for a while.

@  Maximus Ambus : (11 August 2020 - 03:52 AM)

Others say Joe sat down at this pond next to these ducks but really there's just no place in this world for an old man and his ducks.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:48 PM)

Even worse when I can produce those verifiable facts at a later point, and then the other person simply claims the argument was the other way round (as in, I was actually arguing their position and vice versa).

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:47 PM)

I can argue with people about my versus their memory of events when verifiable facts are not readily available, though, and I get really annoyed when I'm capable of presenting a precise, step-by-step summary with multiple key points that can be used for future verification, and the other person just goes "nope, wrong" without going into detail.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:45 PM)

I forget things, and I misremember things. But when presented with verifiable facts, my reaction is more like "Huh, could have sworn it was like that", not "this reality is not my own".

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:43 PM)

I have an extremely good memory (which I have proven time and again), and even I can be mistaken.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 August 2020 - 06:40 PM)

Might be worth pointing out that it only became "Mandela Effect" and not just "I remembered this wrong" when a conspiracy theorist insisted it was proof of alternate timelines.

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

Incorrectly remembering Nelson Mandela's fate may be uniquely American... but is it really that strange to get South African political history wrong when you're no where near South Africa?

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

I always assumed the Mandela Effect was a "human thing", not an American thing.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 August 2020 - 02:03 PM)

Then there are people who outright manufacture memories for whatever reason.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (10 August 2020 - 01:13 PM)

The human brain is so flaky that it is extremely unlikely that a given person does NOT have any false memories.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:05 PM)

Perhaps it's simple word association the movie Sinbad and then our minds apply the same memories to a man named Sinbad.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:04 PM)

The Mandela Effect is the same as people remembering Sinbad in a movie where he played a genie... Of which he never did.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:36 AM)

People that believe Mandela Effect things would rather come up with any number of reasons as to why their version doesn't have any actual evidence(like alternate timelines collapsing into our own) than just admit they remembered something wrong

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Sort of. It's more that when presented with a verifiable fact, they double down because it's what they believe instead of changing their minds

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

"I could have sworn that ______."

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

I'm not arguing with either of those two statements, but they're not really connected. Mandela Effect is, to oversimplify, people being widely mistaken about what they think *is* a verifiable fact. Nothing to do with opinions.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 08:52 AM)

Pretty sure the Mandela Effect in general is an American thing. Opinion > Verifiable Facts is sadly a pretty American thing

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:27 AM)

Ask these people how Apartheid ended according to their recollection, and I'm sure they'll draw a blank.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:25 AM)

You got two black anti-Apartheid activists who were imprisoned by the oppressive regime. One died, the other was Nelson Mandela. It's not a far stretch that Americans who don't know many details about the history of other countries would mix up the two.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:24 AM)

My own theory is that these people are simply mixing up Nelson Mandela and Steve Biko, another South African anti-Apartheid activist, who did indeed die in police custody in 1977. There was an Oscar-nominated movie about his life starring Denzel Washington that came out in 1987, the same time frame these people claim remembering Mandela dying.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:17 AM)

I met a few people from South Africa, and they either never heard of the phenomenon at all, or only know of it from the internet. Apparently, it's completely unknown in South Africa, and it might even be entirely limited to the United States.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:16 AM)

So does anyone remember the "Mandela Effect"? I'm talking specifically about the original case where many people vividly remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980s.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (10 August 2020 - 03:16 AM)

Crisis of Corona.

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 06:16 PM)

Which crisis crossover are we on now? I lost track.

@  Rycochet : (09 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

Much of the past decade has been the part of the comic series where less than stellar authors have driven the series into the ground and the editors are getting ready to either do a big multi issue crossover, leading to a reboot.

@  Bass X0 : (09 August 2020 - 02:28 PM)

At this point I've just decided to consider 2020 "not canon."

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 02:18 PM)

'member Pepperidge Farm?

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 August 2020 - 02:10 PM)

Before the 'member berries there was Pepperidge farm. Pepperidge farm remembers.

@  OverDrive73 : (09 August 2020 - 12:21 PM)

>>>Shameless Plug<<< FYI. posted the last part of Quest for Tires in Allspark Pictures

@  SG Roadbuster : (08 August 2020 - 01:53 PM)

@Nevermore yes.

@  Nevermore : (08 August 2020 - 09:11 AM)

Is $30 a good deal for Subscription Service Breakdown?

@  Trpodeca : (08 August 2020 - 06:24 AM)

Oh dear God no. Twitter has changed it's default layout to the terrible new one. Why waste so much space on the left?


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Star Trek: Picard - Season 1 Spoilers Inside!


1379 replies to this topic

#1361 Rust

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 03:15 PM

I mean, Starfleet's always been authoritarian assholes.

 

Remember, they conspired with the Klingons to ensure peace negotiations between the Empire and Federation would break down.

They all got replaced by alien parasites.

It seems at any given point, at least one prominent admiral is an active, hostile foreign agent or working with questionable people for shady reasons.

 

And that's just from TOS-TNG. I'm sure DS9 and Voyager added their own.



#1362 Cradok

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 03:56 PM

Yeah, the 'Asshole Admiral' is basically a fixture of Trek. DS9 moved away from it in later seasons by introducing a recurring admiral who was basically in charge of Starfleet's Dominion war effort, and Voyager didn't have as many mainly because there were fewer opportunities for it.



#1363 Axaday

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 04:48 PM

While a don't much like Discovery Season 1 and 2 and have mixed feelings about Picard Season 1, I am still very hopeful about the possibilities of long form streaming shows and their apparent interest in doing as many as they can think up.

 

I wonder about the feasibility of making a show set on a freighter well within Starfleet space where they never have to fire on anyone and never discover anything new, but just a character drama set on a SciFi backdrop.  Could that work?



#1364 MrBlud

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 04:57 PM

Yeah, the 'Asshole Admiral' is basically a fixture of Trek. DS9 moved away from it in later seasons by introducing a recurring admiral who was basically in charge of Starfleet's Dominion war effort, and Voyager didn't have as many mainly because there were fewer opportunities for it.

Admiral Ross was a huge asshole.

 

No one who uses Inter arma enim silent leges to justify a crime is a good person.

 

The Novels had him as one of the main backers of Section 31 and (rightfully!) arrested for his crimes only for him to be assassinated by Margo Dempsey (the widow of someone Section 31 had killed).


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#1365 Cradok

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 05:25 PM

I wasn't going to get into what he does in the books, his big turning point was probably what he did with Min Zife, but I never had that much of an issue with what he does in Inter Arma. I guess it's because it wasn't too different to what Sisko does in Pale Moonlight.



#1366 MrBlud

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 05:36 PM

Which for the record was also wrong.

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#1367 TM2-Megatron

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 06:01 PM

I doubt anyone's hands are entirely clean after a war.

That said, I never took much issue with what Ross did... compared to the TOS and TNG evil Admirals and/or Commodores, he was pretty benign. The same kind of crap goes on in the real world all the time in our intelligence communities, and we tolerate it because we'd rather see our way of life and values continue than some alternative. There are those who argue it's hypocritical to ban Huawei as it's likely the US will spy in exactly the same way. I have no issue with it, however, because I'd much rather be spied on by a like-minded ally than an enemy.

 

Admiral Paris on VOY is probably the only flag officer to finish up a Trek series completely innocent. In fact I wish we'd gotten to see more of him, such as a reunion on Earth with his son and granddaughter.



#1368 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 07:24 PM

Admiral Ross was by no means a Good Person™, but the typical Asshole Admiral just sits around waiting offscreen for the main characters to want to do the right thing so he can pop into existence for an episode and order them in the opposite direction, so the fact that we got to know Ross and watched him do things other than support Section 31 puts him at a huge advantage.



#1369 Telly

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 08:57 PM

i still havent seen picard

 

*watches previously posted video*

 

oh, goody. f bombs are exactly what star trek was lacking

 

probly still wont watch picard...


When I die I will surely go to Heaven for i spent my life in Hell

#1370 ▲ndrusi

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 05:58 AM

I feel like if your biggest concern about a new Star Trek series is whether the characters swear more now that they're on a subscription streaming service in 2020 instead of first-run syndication in 1987 then your real biggest concern is probably justifying the decision you'd already made.



#1371 NICK NEMESIS

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 02:00 PM

Rewatching Voyager eps with the kid borgs makes Icheb's death even worse.

I mean, icheb is getting more development in this episode than the new characters in Picard did.

Between him, hugh, and Seven, I don't know why they didn't just make a show about X-Borgs.

Edited by NICK NEMESIS, 28 July 2020 - 02:07 PM.

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#1372 MrBlud

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 04:40 PM

Disney was going to sue them over that name most likely.

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#1373 Telly

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 10:40 PM

x-borgs (x-borgs). comin' your way!


When I die I will surely go to Heaven for i spent my life in Hell

#1374 Axaday

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 09:05 AM

Rewatching Voyager eps with the kid borgs makes Icheb's death even worse.

I mean, icheb is getting more development in this episode than the new characters in Picard did.

Between him, hugh, and Seven, I don't know why they didn't just make a show about X-Borgs.

 

Because they die too quickly to make a character arc.  Duh.



#1375 NICK NEMESIS

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 09:28 AM

:(
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#1376 Axaday

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 01:48 PM

Out of hundreds, Seven was almost the only ex-Borg that didn't die.  Icheb, Hugh, a whole bunch of nameless, Picard...  Sure can't make a show about it now.



#1377 NICK NEMESIS

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 01:52 PM

Hugh was saved off screen and before seven set off for robot world the ex-borgs were teleported back on board.

Its easy to fix! The only one you can't really fix is Icheb, but you can bring back the other kids and not kill them.

*please*
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#1378 Maximus Ambus

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 02:23 AM

Every Borg on that Cube could have survived if you recall the reveal in Voyager episode Mortal Coil where Seven revived Neelix and said the Borg do this often. Hugh, all those shot down and the spaced ones could have been retrieved and placed in alcoves to regenerate from their injuries from that tech.

That also adds a bit of nightmare fuel that even the recently dead aren't safe from assimilation.


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#1379 Cradok

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 05:31 AM

I came across a quote in a review of Picard about why Discovery and Picard don't really work as Trek:

 

"The late 24th century of Picard is a mere mirror of our time, and not any longer a vision of the future. Rather than Discovery, Picard is recognizable and acceptable as Star Trek again, but the producers make the same mistakes in their obsession to let the show appear as contemporary as possible."



#1380 Copper Bezel

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 09:28 AM

From this review for anyone else who was curious.

 

It's not a false statement that the run of Star Trek from TNG through Enterprise used an atmosphere of period drama to emphasize the sense that the setting is a time other than our own. It's not unlike the common shorthand of setting a piece in ancient Rome and having the characters speak English with a British accent. In that sense, most of Trek is written to not feel contemporary in a way that Picard is an exception to, and to a lesser extent Discovery is as well. It's also true that Picard sets itself in a story world built around some key conflicts that exist to act as mirrors to kinds of problems that are specifically relevant to concerns about the world that we have to deal with in our present historical moment. I don't think that's as true of Discovery - I think Discovery is more parallel to Voyager where there's nothing really new being said in its "vision of the future" at all, and it's just inheriting its setting from other Trek and not really exploring it thematically. 

 

It isn't nothing - it contributes to a character to the franchise in the same way that space ship, set, costume, and makeup designs do. It's one of the many planks making up the ship of Theseus that is a franchise's ethos. Another whole category of elements would be substantive elements of the writing like themes or genre expectations within a given universe. So it's the same basis I'd have to argue that the Yuuzhan Vong as alien invaders from outside the known universe were always a Star Trek plot device in a Star Wars story, that the Kelvin Enterprise (or Discovery's Klingon bird-thing) would be out of place in the main Star Trek universe because it lacks the aesthetic of practical limitations that Trek ships are designed under, and so on.

 

A series can't dispense with too many of these things at once without being Thing in Name Only. At some point you'd be better off just making it its own separate thing.

 

But you most certainly can dispense with them selectively and purposefully. 

 

I don't think either Discovery or Picard works, period. Discovery is a very serial show that depends entirely on the cohesion of its season arc to say anything, that happens to be, so far, two seasons that each change direction at the middle and contradict themselves materially and thematically as hard as the Star Wars sequel trilogy does. Picard is a series of really cool vignettes that are supposed to add up to a similarly serial construction and just don't. It's like a Michael Bay Transformers movie, except the setpieces being strung together with no logical connections are character beats and crying scenes instead of action sequences. 

 

I think either of them would work as Star Trek if they worked at all. 

 

Star Trek is an inherently cerebral franchise that has traditionally used a somewhat carefully constructed science fiction setting to explore a variety of speculative-fiction concepts. The TNG era also built up a dense enough canon of facts about its universe that people can talk about ships and species the way WWII junkies can talk about tanks and national economies. Through Voyager and Enterprise, we've seen what happens when the creative team or the network is content to keep authentic, consistent, guaranteed, billions-and-billions-served Star Trek flavor above all else. Through the Kelvin films, we've seen what a nostalgia reboot Star Trek based on the characters and ephemera of the original series in Marvel movie style looks like. None of those things are wholly or inherently bad and all of them contributed great things that have a place in the franchise. 

 

But Star Trek should be able to question its most basic assumptions and ask whether the devices it's inherited are the best ones for going about the business of doing Trek, and lay the guts all out on the table if need be. Because, you know, it's not Star Wars, where being enjoyable and keeping the authentic flavor are the only things that matter; science, social realities, and visions of the future all move on with time, and Star Trek shouldn't just be reflecting those changes, it has to rework itself to actively engage with them. It has to be conscious of its contemporary context, all the time, or it's not working as Star Trek.


Edited by Copper Bezel, 30 July 2020 - 09:31 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 




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