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@  Sabrblade : (13 August 2020 - 10:31 PM)

Turns out the President set the whole thing up as a publicity stunt. Very rude.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (13 August 2020 - 08:11 PM)

The ninjas will go away, it will be fine.

@  Paladin : (13 August 2020 - 08:02 PM)

listen; i'm sure there were very fine ninjas on both sides.

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 August 2020 - 07:50 PM)

My thoughts and prayers go out to the ninjas.

@  Cybersnark : (13 August 2020 - 06:36 PM)

Can we just let them have him?

@  Bass X0 : (13 August 2020 - 06:18 PM)

The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?

@  Otaku : (13 August 2020 - 03:08 PM)

At first, I obviously thought I was correct.  Then I thought perhaps the spelling had changed for some reason.  Copyright/trademark law is weird, ya know?  Now I just accept I goofed. XD

@  Otaku : (13 August 2020 - 03:07 PM)

See, that one directly applies to me.  Apparently, I'd been misreading and mispronouncing it wrong for over 30 years... and I still slip and do it the wrong way much of the time.

@  Paladin : (13 August 2020 - 07:37 AM)

for the Internet age its the "Berenstain" Effect.

@  Bass X0 : (12 August 2020 - 01:49 PM)

Can you root for what The Rock is cooking!?

@  -LittleAutob... : (12 August 2020 - 10:35 AM)

sOmEoNe NoTiCeD-

@  wonko the sane? : (12 August 2020 - 07:37 AM)

I am the only one rooting for the rock these days?

@  Maximus Ambus : (12 August 2020 - 12:37 AM)

Sour grapes for the next decade until Apophis hits.

@  Hg Dragon : (11 August 2020 - 11:26 PM)

Thank yoo for vatching hydroolic pthress chan-nel.

@  Hg Dragon : (11 August 2020 - 11:19 PM)

Hey, do you have any grapes?

@  Otaku : (11 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

I dunno... it sounds kind of quackers to me.

@  -LittleAutob... : (11 August 2020 - 05:17 PM)

That would be nice....

@  TheMightyMol... : (11 August 2020 - 04:36 PM)

I wish I could just sit by a pond and watch ducks for a while.

@  Maximus Ambus : (11 August 2020 - 03:52 AM)

Others say Joe sat down at this pond next to these ducks but really there's just no place in this world for an old man and his ducks.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:48 PM)

Even worse when I can produce those verifiable facts at a later point, and then the other person simply claims the argument was the other way round (as in, I was actually arguing their position and vice versa).

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:47 PM)

I can argue with people about my versus their memory of events when verifiable facts are not readily available, though, and I get really annoyed when I'm capable of presenting a precise, step-by-step summary with multiple key points that can be used for future verification, and the other person just goes "nope, wrong" without going into detail.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:45 PM)

I forget things, and I misremember things. But when presented with verifiable facts, my reaction is more like "Huh, could have sworn it was like that", not "this reality is not my own".

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:43 PM)

I have an extremely good memory (which I have proven time and again), and even I can be mistaken.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 August 2020 - 06:40 PM)

Might be worth pointing out that it only became "Mandela Effect" and not just "I remembered this wrong" when a conspiracy theorist insisted it was proof of alternate timelines.

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

Incorrectly remembering Nelson Mandela's fate may be uniquely American... but is it really that strange to get South African political history wrong when you're no where near South Africa?

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

I always assumed the Mandela Effect was a "human thing", not an American thing.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 August 2020 - 02:03 PM)

Then there are people who outright manufacture memories for whatever reason.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (10 August 2020 - 01:13 PM)

The human brain is so flaky that it is extremely unlikely that a given person does NOT have any false memories.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:05 PM)

Perhaps it's simple word association the movie Sinbad and then our minds apply the same memories to a man named Sinbad.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:04 PM)

The Mandela Effect is the same as people remembering Sinbad in a movie where he played a genie... Of which he never did.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:36 AM)

People that believe Mandela Effect things would rather come up with any number of reasons as to why their version doesn't have any actual evidence(like alternate timelines collapsing into our own) than just admit they remembered something wrong

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Sort of. It's more that when presented with a verifiable fact, they double down because it's what they believe instead of changing their minds

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

"I could have sworn that ______."

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

I'm not arguing with either of those two statements, but they're not really connected. Mandela Effect is, to oversimplify, people being widely mistaken about what they think *is* a verifiable fact. Nothing to do with opinions.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 08:52 AM)

Pretty sure the Mandela Effect in general is an American thing. Opinion > Verifiable Facts is sadly a pretty American thing

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:27 AM)

Ask these people how Apartheid ended according to their recollection, and I'm sure they'll draw a blank.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:25 AM)

You got two black anti-Apartheid activists who were imprisoned by the oppressive regime. One died, the other was Nelson Mandela. It's not a far stretch that Americans who don't know many details about the history of other countries would mix up the two.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:24 AM)

My own theory is that these people are simply mixing up Nelson Mandela and Steve Biko, another South African anti-Apartheid activist, who did indeed die in police custody in 1977. There was an Oscar-nominated movie about his life starring Denzel Washington that came out in 1987, the same time frame these people claim remembering Mandela dying.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:17 AM)

I met a few people from South Africa, and they either never heard of the phenomenon at all, or only know of it from the internet. Apparently, it's completely unknown in South Africa, and it might even be entirely limited to the United States.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:16 AM)

So does anyone remember the "Mandela Effect"? I'm talking specifically about the original case where many people vividly remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980s.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (10 August 2020 - 03:16 AM)

Crisis of Corona.

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 06:16 PM)

Which crisis crossover are we on now? I lost track.

@  Rycochet : (09 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

Much of the past decade has been the part of the comic series where less than stellar authors have driven the series into the ground and the editors are getting ready to either do a big multi issue crossover, leading to a reboot.

@  Bass X0 : (09 August 2020 - 02:28 PM)

At this point I've just decided to consider 2020 "not canon."

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 02:18 PM)

'member Pepperidge Farm?

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 August 2020 - 02:10 PM)

Before the 'member berries there was Pepperidge farm. Pepperidge farm remembers.

@  OverDrive73 : (09 August 2020 - 12:21 PM)

>>>Shameless Plug<<< FYI. posted the last part of Quest for Tires in Allspark Pictures

@  SG Roadbuster : (08 August 2020 - 01:53 PM)

@Nevermore yes.

@  Nevermore : (08 August 2020 - 09:11 AM)

Is $30 a good deal for Subscription Service Breakdown?

@  Trpodeca : (08 August 2020 - 06:24 AM)

Oh dear God no. Twitter has changed it's default layout to the terrible new one. Why waste so much space on the left?


Photo
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Fourth Kelvin Star Trek film by S.J. Clarkson - Pine and Hemsworth no longer on board?


173 replies to this topic

#161 Shadewing

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 08:41 AM

biological parts inside the ship used for ship-related things like hearts and blood vessels inside walls pumping various fluids.

 

Doctor Who got there first.


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#162 Cradok

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 09:31 AM

Gem H'Dar

 

We are the Crystal Gem H'Dar
We're addicted to the White
Obedience is Victory
And Victory is Life
That's why the Founders put their trust in
Remata'klan, Talak'talan, and Omet'iklan, and Taran'atar!

 

(Sorry, I usually wouldn't highlight a typo, especially of a made-up alien race, but the idea of Crystal Jem'Hadar was just too good to not use.)



#163 Cybersnark

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 10:33 AM

(I mean, Amethysts are literally what the Jem'Hadar are meant to be.)

Roddenberry himself took the stance that Trek-as-filmed is only an interpretation "based on actual events" produced after-the-fact in-universe, so some re-interpretation/re-casting is fine.

That said, the thing for me is that TNG, DS9, Voyager, and even Enterprise all went to great lengths to keep their inter-series crossovers visually consistent. Discovery is the only one to completely throw out previously-established visual language, and often in ways that make absolutely no sense in-universe, and clearly exist just to streamline filming (the Transformer-tech spacesuits and heavy equipment, the huge empty spaces inside the bulkheads for the turbolifts, the cargo-pods mindlessly buzzing around the shuttlebay in the midst of an incongruous Star-Wars-style space battle, the hugging astromech droids).

If I was an alien being told these were dramatic re-enactments, I'd have to assume TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT were meant to be historically-accurate while DSC was the Taron Egerton Robin Hood version.

Edited by Cybersnark, 22 November 2019 - 10:34 AM.


#164 AgentOrange

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 11:35 AM

If I was an alien being told these were dramatic re-enactments, I'd have to assume TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT were meant to be historically-accurate while DSC was the Taron Egerton Robin Hood version.

 

I would assume that the the series before DSC were limited by shitty primitive effects technology and DSC is what things should look like.  Just like the real world explanation.


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#165 G.B.Blackrock

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 11:43 AM

 

 

I'd love Star Trek But Animated to go hog wild with redesigning the aliens and really take advantage of the medium. No, they don't need to all be darwinnian gasbags or cthonic tentacle monsters, but Klingons or Bajorans or Gem H'Dar can all look meaningfully different from humans in shape and proportion.

And since it's a different visual medium, you can use that to explain away the inconsistencies to nerds without talking about stupid hugging viruses or dumbass Humanoid Ancestor DNA.

 

As I said with Discovery, some amount of redesign is fine (and necessary), but I want to be able to recognize Klingons AS Klingons, Bajorans AS Bajorans, etc. Don't make up a totally different alien and then try to tell me it's something I should be able to recognize. If you want to design a new alien, go wild! But give it a new name.

 

 

Nah, the Discovery Klingons or whatever are fine, they look different but it's a different show made decades after the TNG Klingons got introduced. In an animated show you're not limited by expensive cosmetics or CGI, so there's no reason to be strictly accurate to the source material.

 

I also don't care about visual accuracy to the source material. I really, seriously don't care. There's nothing to gain from it outside of cute homages and some very circumstantial stories.

 

Of course, personally speaking, the design changes I'm interested in are less about details as they are proportions and nonhumanoid bodytypes. That probably doesn't satisfy people but calling them different aliens would be worse by far than just using the Old Designs That Make The Nostalgia Button Happy. 

 

(This WOULD be a fantastic opportunity for some CGI/Puppet heavy aliens, however. Changelings, The Gorn, or the Tholians, maybe weird up the Borg, too!)

 

Seriously, I could not disagree with you more. Star Trek is an established franchise. If you want to do all that, you shouldn't be playing in an established franchise.


Edited by G.B.Blackrock, 22 November 2019 - 11:44 AM.


#166 Cybersnark

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 12:27 PM

I would assume that the the series before DSC were limited by shitty primitive effects technology and DSC is what things should look like.  Just like the real world explanation.

Effects technology doesn't explain the redesigned uniforms or extra-large stadium-sized bridges or the makeup that physically inhibits the performances of the people wearing it, nor the stuff that doesn't make practical in-universe sense, like the aforementioned magical-topsy-turvy-wonderland that replaces "elevator shafts," or the workpods flying around carrying boxes during a battle in which Pike & Number One specifically deployed every support ship they could find.

And never mind that there's no "new" VFX technology that's been introduced in Discovery; it's all purely down to having more budget than they know what to do with. The VFX on Discovery commit the cardinal sin of not being in service to the story, but existing purely so the producers can say "LOOK HOW BIG MY DIGITAL MANHOOD IS!!!1!!"

If ship-maintenance droids were intended to be a thing, we would've seen puppets and/or people in robot costumes as far back as TOS. Hell, remember NOMAD?
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#167 Cabooceratops

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 02:23 PM

 

 

I'd love Star Trek But Animated to go hog wild with redesigning the aliens and really take advantage of the medium. No, they don't need to all be darwinnian gasbags or cthonic tentacle monsters, but Klingons or Bajorans or Gem H'Dar can all look meaningfully different from humans in shape and proportion.

And since it's a different visual medium, you can use that to explain away the inconsistencies to nerds without talking about stupid hugging viruses or dumbass Humanoid Ancestor DNA.

 
As I said with Discovery, some amount of redesign is fine (and necessary), but I want to be able to recognize Klingons AS Klingons, Bajorans AS Bajorans, etc. Don't make up a totally different alien and then try to tell me it's something I should be able to recognize. If you want to design a new alien, go wild! But give it a new name.
 
 
Nah, the Discovery Klingons or whatever are fine, they look different but it's a different show made decades after the TNG Klingons got introduced. In an animated show you're not limited by expensive cosmetics or CGI, so there's no reason to be strictly accurate to the source material.
 
I also don't care about visual accuracy to the source material. I really, seriously don't care. There's nothing to gain from it outside of cute homages and some very circumstantial stories.
 
Of course, personally speaking, the design changes I'm interested in are less about details as they are proportions and nonhumanoid bodytypes. That probably doesn't satisfy people but calling them different aliens would be worse by far than just using the Old Designs That Make The Nostalgia Button Happy. 
 
(This WOULD be a fantastic opportunity for some CGI/Puppet heavy aliens, however. Changelings, The Gorn, or the Tholians, maybe weird up the Borg, too!)
 
Seriously, I could not disagree with you more. Star Trek is an established franchise. If you want to do all that, you shouldn't be playing in an established franchise.

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#168 Telly

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 02:33 PM

 

biological parts inside the ship used for ship-related things like hearts and blood vessels inside walls pumping various fluids.

 

Doctor Who got there first.

 

 

only if they did it before '96, which is when that book came out


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#169 AgentOrange

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 03:35 PM

 

I would assume that the the series before DSC were limited by shitty primitive effects technology and DSC is what things should look like.  Just like the real world explanation.

Effects technology doesn't explain the redesigned uniforms or extra-large stadium-sized bridges or the makeup that physically inhibits the performances of the people wearing it, nor the stuff that doesn't make practical in-universe sense, like the aforementioned magical-topsy-turvy-wonderland that replaces "elevator shafts," or the workpods flying around carrying boxes during a battle in which Pike & Number One specifically deployed every support ship they could find.

 

 

I disagree with you on everything about the budget and what's necessary so I'm going to ignore it, but new technology does explain the uniforms.  Not effects technology, but camera technology. Shit is HD now.  That's why every single comic costume translated to live action is textured to hell.  It looks better on screen.  And the Klingons look worlds better than brownface eyeshadow TOS or bumpy forehead TNG Klingons, so I don't really give a shit about "inhibited" performance because it looks better and I didn't see enough of an inhibition to care.


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#170 Cybersnark

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 12:38 PM

Yeah, it's too bad it's impossible to update TOS-era costumes for modern cinema-quality HD in a subtle, visually-consistent way.

fvcxuFH.jpg

And if you don't think that the lack of facial expressions and inability to speak your lines around a mouthful of oversized dentures and false lips inhibits an actor's performance, I honestly don't know what to say.

(To clarify, I'm only talking about the Klingons. Doug Jones' performance as Saru was typically phenomenal [though he didn't have to wear dentures].)

#171 NICK NEMESIS

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 01:23 PM

I haven't watched any more than Discovery's pilot. Is it something I should go ahead and watch?
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#172 Dekafox

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 02:36 PM

Depends on how much the visual/tech inconsistancies would bother you.   First season I'd say was okay.  Second season was better and had some episodes that actually felt to me like what I'd expect from Star Trek. 3rd season is up in the air(as it hasn't started yet), but the trailer seems to play it up like it's Andromeda Mk II with Burnham playing Kevin Sorbo playing Hercules in space. On the other hand it's the farthest point in the timeline that's been touched yet, since it's technically after the whole timeship stuff from Voyager/Enterprise.



#173 Mouse_Pad

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 12:46 PM

Yeah, it's too bad it's impossible to update TOS-era costumes for modern cinema-quality HD in a subtle, visually-consistent way.

fvcxuFH.jpg

And if you don't think that the lack of facial expressions and inability to speak your lines around a mouthful of oversized dentures and false lips inhibits an actor's performance, I honestly don't know what to say.

(To clarify, I'm only talking about the Klingons. Doug Jones' performance as Saru was typically phenomenal [though he didn't have to wear dentures].)

 

Those Kelvin uniforms have little delta shields printed all over them, which is extremely silly.  The normal blue Discovery uniforms also have tiny gold delta shields on the sides, which is also very silly.

 

The Discovery Enterprise uniforms are the best update of the TOS uniforms.  Not entirely faithful, but very sharp.



#174 Benbot

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 01:05 PM

I like having added detail and texture to the fabrics--it gives them a more futuristic space age feel, like my athletic clothing.  But the use of the deltas is pretty stupid.  I guess it's fine as long as you don't look too closely.





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