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@  Shrug : (20 October 2018 - 05:28 AM)

Russian interference should have been fighting an uphill battle, but as far as I'm concerned we gave them a head start.

@  Shrug : (20 October 2018 - 05:23 AM)

I disagree with Hillary being a good choice to run against Trump. Plenty of mixed feelings about her long before 2016 within our own party. When the DNC has to rig it's own primaries to get their chosen candidate running, maybe you shouldn't expect an easy landslide at the actual election.

@  Pennpenn : (20 October 2018 - 05:20 AM)

It would have also helped if the US was also an actualy democracy where the candidate who gets the most votes wins, but hey.

@  Rycochet : (20 October 2018 - 04:42 AM)

You helped destroy western democracy, but hey, at least no-one can accuse you of bias... Oh wait, they did, still do, and are going to keep doing so as long as you report facts.

@  Rycochet : (20 October 2018 - 04:39 AM)

Hillary was a good choice to run against Trump, the big problem was the media crawling all over themselves to try and push the idea of fairness, and threw her under the bus to do so. Any hint of impropriety was treated as being exactly the same as actual proven criminal acts by Trump in order to avoid being seen as biased... and at the end of it all, he turned around and bit them for doing so because that's who he is.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 03:37 AM)

Many right-wingers are using its name as part of our version of the term "libtards": "Left-green filthy".

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 03:35 AM)

It's the only of the "established" parties (it's almost 40 years old at this point) that has remained true to its principles.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 03:34 AM)

Meanwhile, some uplifting news from Germany: While our big parties are rapidly losing voters, and our new "we're not really extreme" right-wing party is gaining voters, there is one other party that is scoring massive points, both in polls and the recent Bavarian state election: The Green Party.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 03:33 AM)

I still think having Hillary run against Drumpf was a bad choice.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 03:32 AM)

Well on the bright side, we know more people voted for HIllary than the cheeto.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 03:31 AM)

I guess many a prepper might have also voted for the person most likely to bring about the end of society they are waiting for.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 03:28 AM)

Now let that sink in, and then think about how many people voted for Agent Orange.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 03:27 AM)

Elected officials often represent how the voters either view themselves, or how they would like to be.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 12:21 AM)

Well I had 8 people watching my stream at one time tonight.. I call that a success...

@  Telly : (19 October 2018 - 11:08 PM)

my latest order from tfsource is coming from pennsylvania. all other ones have come from vegas (or thereabouts). did they move? is there a convention in pennsylvania theyre at and shipped from there?

@  MEDdMI : (19 October 2018 - 10:02 PM)

Unless it's the main cast of Persona 5.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (19 October 2018 - 10:02 PM)

I realize there is a certain irony in my vocabulary selection there.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (19 October 2018 - 10:01 PM)

People who admire public thieves and tricksters are.....sad.

@  Pennpenn : (19 October 2018 - 07:04 PM)

Ah damn it, need to go get some new headphones.

@  wonko the sane? : (19 October 2018 - 06:21 PM)

Power was out for most of the day, and now a boil water advisory. Been a great day so far...

@  Nevermore : (19 October 2018 - 05:31 PM)

Bottom line, he reminds them alternatively of all the con men they grew up with watching on television (i.e. televangelists) or their favorite character from the Bible (i.e. Old Testament God).

@  Nevermore : (19 October 2018 - 05:30 PM)

Bill Maher gave an excellent explanation for why the Religious Right loves Trump so much.

@  wonko the sane? : (19 October 2018 - 05:02 PM)

"NOOOO said the man in washington! It's belongs to the poor!"... oh boy was he wrong.

@  Paladin : (19 October 2018 - 04:34 PM)

see also Andrew Ryan

@  RichardT1977 : (19 October 2018 - 03:18 PM)

Also, "Big Father" has almost all the benefits of "Big Brother", but with none of the drawbacks.

@  TheMightyMol... : (19 October 2018 - 02:22 PM)

I'd go with "moron", personally.

@  Pennpenn : (19 October 2018 - 10:02 AM)

Why not both?

@  Benbot : (19 October 2018 - 09:56 AM)

I think she was a psychopath.

@  Echowarrior : (19 October 2018 - 09:50 AM)

Ayn Rand was a pretentious bitch.

@  Noideaforaname : (19 October 2018 - 09:31 AM)

But Sven makes way more sense now

@  Noideaforaname : (19 October 2018 - 09:30 AM)

Man, watching the original Voltron cartoon for the first time is so weird after having only seen the Netflix reboot.

@  D.M : (19 October 2018 - 09:09 AM)

+They don't really give a crap about God. All their religious talk is just part of the mask. They wanna look like the ideal citizen (what they consider that to be) - the most Christian of all Christians, the most patriotic of all patriots, etc.

@  Pennpenn : (19 October 2018 - 08:13 AM)

That's because she was also greedy, heartless, and despised the poor, which is something the right often loves more than God.

@  RichardT1977 : (19 October 2018 - 07:55 AM)

I find it rather amusing that the party of the Religious Right sees wisdom in a woman who hated the notion of God almost as much as she hated and feared the idea of being part of a family.

@  Nevermore : (19 October 2018 - 05:39 AM)

However, another big issue is cultural differences. We do have a sense of humor, it's just different than in other cultures because it is a product of a different culture. Simply put, what you might find incredibly funny is considered unfunny by Germans... and vice versa.

@  Nevermore : (19 October 2018 - 05:38 AM)

It's actually a multi-faceted issue. Yes, some Germans are incredibly devoid of humor, although those people exist in other countries too. I have no ideas regarding statistics, but these people exist.

@  Nevermore : (19 October 2018 - 05:37 AM)

So, about this long-standing stereotype that "Germans have no sense of humor"...

@  TheMightyMol... : (19 October 2018 - 03:49 AM)

I got enough Rand fighting my way through the Sword of Truth series. I can't imagine trying to read the original work.

@  Pennpenn : (19 October 2018 - 02:39 AM)

All the people who like Rand should go live in a big underwater city. I cannot foresee anything that could go wrong with such a scenario.

@  MidnightFox : (19 October 2018 - 01:13 AM)

Everyone needs to stop reading Rand

@  Tieria Prime : (18 October 2018 - 10:54 PM)

Gotten a new Gundam gunpla toy model kit 

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (18 October 2018 - 09:47 PM)

Ugh it's ridiculous how some people worship Rand's ideas.

@  wonko the sane? : (18 October 2018 - 09:07 PM)

That's one of the things the old cable companies got right: Only one or two options per area. The illusion of choice.

@  Paladin : (18 October 2018 - 08:48 PM)

business types need to stop reading Ayn Rand.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (18 October 2018 - 07:29 PM)

The streaming services are starting to get too saturated and start canabilising each other.

@  Steevy Maximus : (18 October 2018 - 06:50 PM)

Good thing I never bought into VRV...Funimation is pulling out. And I got into HiDive at $4 a month.

@  Echowarrior : (18 October 2018 - 10:21 AM)

The restauraunt messes up your food, you complain to customer service. Complain to 911 when you get food poisoning from said food.

@  MEDdMI : (18 October 2018 - 07:59 AM)

Ugh. I hate people sometimes.

@  Nevermore : (18 October 2018 - 04:00 AM)

I mean, white people are calling the cops on black people for random shit lately, it appears.

@  Pennpenn : (18 October 2018 - 02:49 AM)

It's not that surprising that some people freaked out enough over Youtube being down that they'd call emergency services. I mean, I've heard of at least one instance of someone calling 911 because the restaurant didn't make a cheeseburger to their liking.


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Part of Back to the Future 2 bothers me...


46 replies to this topic

#1 Telly

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 02:54 PM

i highly doubt this is a new thought (especially given how sharp the people here are), but its been bugging me for some time.

 

so at the beginning, doc comes to marty and jennifer and tells them they have to do something about their kids in the future. no problem there. so they hop in the delorean and set course for 2015. THIS is where it starts bugging me. how can marty and jennifer help their kids if they (marty and jen) have essentially been removed from the timeline?

 

im hardly a genius when it comes to this stuff, but seems to me that when they leave in the delorean, they no longer exist in the timeline. since theyre moving through the two years, they dont exist between 1985 and 2015. how can they still have kids if they werent around in the preceeding 30 years? is the 2015 they go to an parallel universe?

 

i hope i did a good enough job of explaining what im getting at, cause im not always very good at getting out whats in my head

 

thoughts on this?


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#2 Shadewing

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:28 PM

My explination, is simple. They don't disappear because they're still there. What I mean is, while they disappear from the timeline, they return at about the same point they left. That return is factored into the timeline. The timeline only changes when they make actual changes in their own personal timeline, like how the 'You're Fired' fax doesn't disappear til Marty doesn't race Needles. As long as you return to the point you leave, it doesn't matter that you left.

 

As another sort of example, in Doctor Who (which I know would technically follow different rules) the 11th Doctor brings Rory and Amy to a relatively close year (like 10-ish years) and in it they see their future selves actually visiting the area, becuase at that point they were fated to return to their normal lives in their normal timeline. Its not until something changes that that that future becomes invalidated. But at that point time still seemed to move forward with the idea that they'd be able to be at that future place when it was their present.


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#3 Nutjob R/T

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:31 PM

... I need to find that image that shows there's like nine timelines in the series and how they get obliterated one after the other
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#4 Aberration

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:48 PM

There was an episode of M.A.N.T.I.S. (an old one-season superhero show on Fox) that pretty much did what you're saying. The main hero got thrown into the future, and the whole world sucked because he was declared dead from the moment he left and wasn't there to stop something horrible.

But yeah, it seems like Time always takes it for granted that time travelers will come back to when they're supposed to be.

#5 Steevy Maximus

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:59 PM

I was going to say something about the possibility of there being TWO sets of Doc and Martys in the corrupted 1985 (with the "proper" Doc and Marty possibly having never met and Doc not being able to build a time machine), then I realized it could be a delayed erasure, like what occurred in the first film.

 

So, coming from 2015, they might have actually bought themselves extra time to fix the time line.  It was days before Marty noticed the timeline changes in the picture, so I'm assuming the "proper" duo had at least a couple days before the new reality "caught up" with them.



#6 Nutjob R/T

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:14 PM

Okay I was wrong, there's just eight.

Picture-12.png

Edited by Nutjob R/T, 06 August 2018 - 04:14 PM.

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#7 Telly

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:46 PM

There was an episode of M.A.N.T.I.S. (an old one-season superhero show on Fox) that pretty much did what you're saying. The main hero got thrown into the future, and the whole world sucked because he was declared dead from the moment he left and wasn't there to stop something horrible.

But yeah, it seems like Time always takes it for granted that time travelers will come back to when they're supposed to be.

 

i think the 90s flash show did something similar too

 

as for the picture nutjob posted...

 

 

i knew posting topic this would just lead to me being confused even more!


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#8 Thylacine 2000

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 05:21 PM

Okay I was wrong, there's just eight.

Picture-12.png

"Deux-Loreans" is wrong. Gasoline decays and damages engine parts if it's left sitting in the tank for even 6 months, let alone 70 years. 1885 Doc would have drained the tank before burying it.

It's possible to convert coal to gas, and a man who could invent what was apparently a stove-powered icemaker in 1885 should have been able to do it. We must assume that Doc lacked the parts necessary within their one week deadline.

Edited by Thylacine 2000, 06 August 2018 - 05:25 PM.


#9 Superomegaprime

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 05:21 PM

Time travel, its enough to give one a headache as you try to think about the various consquences of it


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#10 Waspinator

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 06:14 PM

 

There was an episode of M.A.N.T.I.S. (an old one-season superhero show on Fox) that pretty much did what you're saying. The main hero got thrown into the future, and the whole world sucked because he was declared dead from the moment he left and wasn't there to stop something horrible.

But yeah, it seems like Time always takes it for granted that time travelers will come back to when they're supposed to be.

 

i think the 90s flash show did something similar too

 

as for the picture nutjob posted...

 

 

i knew posting topic this would just lead to me being confused even more!

 

That episode is insane. If I recall correctly, O'Brien goes to the future, meets himself, dies, and then his future self goes back to the present. O'Brien for the rest of the show is technically a time clone from alternate timeline.



#11 Telly

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 06:35 PM

that is correct. the miles that ends the series isnt the same one that started it. its only a few hours difference between the 2, but still

 

i think voyager also did sort of the same thing with harry kim


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#12 Creature SH

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 07:23 PM

The part about BTTF 2 that bothers me is the one that came true.


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#13 videomaster21XX

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:12 PM

Funny enough, if you watch some of the bonus features on the trilogy sets. (I have the one that first included the Ride footage) they address this.

 

Basically yeah, they state that the way it works is off the knowledge that at some point Marty and Jenifer go back to the timeline. Or the 'real' answer. If it worked with Marty and Jenifer vanishing from the timeline, they couldn't do the movie, so that didn't happen.


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#14 Benbot

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:57 PM

This is one thing Voyager actually got right with the invention of timeships.  They are able to "integrate" multiple versions of the same person into a single entity in the timeline.  No need to explain it further than that.  Past, present and future selves are all the same individual--there is no right or wrong version--they're all native to the same timeline.



#15 The Doctor Who

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:26 PM

I am obligated:

 

 

More to the point:

The Back to the Future movies seem to roughly follow the rule that timelines take a certain amount of time to catch up and that individuals involved in time travel are somehow specially protected from the events, at least to a certain degree.  So Marty, Doc and co can jump around in time and there seems to be a general 'assumption' of sorts by the timeline that they return and everything's normal, right up until something that might change it happens and then it seems to take a dramatically valuable period of time to adjust.


Edited by The Doctor Who, 06 August 2018 - 10:29 PM.

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#16 Pocket

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:45 PM

How long did Marty spend in 1955 before his photo started fading out? Like a week? It would probably have taken the same amount of time for 2015 to start going screwy. And they were only there for about a day. Same reason the effects of Biff's trip didn't start manifesting until they traveled back. (Although that too is a bit confusing. Why didn't the three of them end up back in normal 1985, only to have the entire town slowly change like Marty's family photo over the course of the following week? Could it be explained away by Biff deciding to stick around for an extra week after dropping off the book to take a trip down Memory Lane?)

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#17 Telly

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:05 AM

 

i have a shirt with that on it :)

 

How long did Marty spend in 1955 before his photo started fading out? Like a week? It would probably have taken the same amount of time for 2015 to start going screwy. And they were only there for about a day. Same reason the effects of Biff's trip didn't start manifesting until they traveled back. (Although that too is a bit confusing. Why didn't the three of them end up back in normal 1985, only to have the entire town slowly change like Marty's family photo over the course of the following week?

 

best guess is past changes are near instantaneous (well, from a certain point of view). since times normal motion is forward, anything changed in the past has ample opportunity to set in and take affect. its kinda hard to imagine as most stories dont have more than one person running around changing time in opposite directions. its usually a person (or in this case a team of people) working to change ONE thing then heading home. hardly ever see someone from said time stealing the groups time machine and going back to change something else. so i think this is a unique situation in time travel stories

 

back on point, i think doc is completely right with his explanation of why they didnt come back to the "normal" 1985. the timeline had 30 years (starting from 1955) to adjust itself and make rich biff set in and be the norm. as for the picture taking a week to fade, marty had until the big dance to get them together cause that was where they had their first kiss. had marty shown up two weeks before the dance or two hours, he wouldve had the corresponding amount of time to get them together; two weeks in the first case, two hours in the second case. and the picture wouldve been faded (or not) to reflect how much time he had. 


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#18 wonko the sane?

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:31 AM

The first thing to understand about time travel: no one person, or group of people, is so important that just the presence or lack of presence will affect anything. Unless you travel far enough that your modern germs start a plague... or you go so far forward that you die from a modern disease you have no immunity for.

 

The second thing to understand: if your start and end point of your trip aren't so significantly spaced that your disappearance can't be explained away by something mundane (I.e. You leave at 10 am, and come back at noon. "guys, I just went to walmart.") then you still exist for the time between. Because we as individuals aren't that important. If you bugger off for a couple of years (i.e. you leave at 10 am august 2012 and come back 10 am august 2018.) and make no attempt to repair the gap (cause the only way to fix time travel is with more time travel.) THEN you do not exist for that period. But likely will have changed nothing anyway... cause we as individuals aren't that important. Which is why stuff like BTTF goes out of it's way to make departures and arrivals almost overlap. There's a lot less to fix if no one even notices you left in the first place.

 

You thought JET LAG was bad. Try spend 1 minute and 2 weeks in the future. This is why time travel sucks.

 

Long story short: if someone offers you a cheap and relatively easy way to time travel. Don't do it. It's not worth the real head ache or the existential crisis.



#19 Axaday

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:52 AM

How long did Marty spend in 1955 before his photo started fading out? Like a week? It would probably have taken the same amount of time for 2015 to start going screwy. And they were only there for about a day. Same reason the effects of Biff's trip didn't start manifesting until they traveled back. (Although that too is a bit confusing. Why didn't the three of them end up back in normal 1985, only to have the entire town slowly change like Marty's family photo over the course of the following week? Could it be explained away by Biff deciding to stick around for an extra week after dropping off the book to take a trip down Memory Lane?)


We actually dont know if 2015 changed before they left. They were already in a bad neighborhood and Biff got back right before they left. All we saw was a bad neighborhood in the dark.

What bothers ME is the movie not explaining old Biff being in pain. There is some implication, but not enough that I understood it before it was explained to me. In the timeline he created he did not survive to 2015. I think that is very poignant and should have been hammered home.

#20 Nutjob R/T

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:55 AM

Ah, see, first flick, Marty was the locus of the timeline disturbance. Apparently it takes time (!?) for disturbances to propagate forward through the timeline, hit Marty's existance and then propagate back to him in the past. Then in the second flick, the time it takes for Old Biff's changes to propagate forward means they left the 2015 of Timeline 3 before the changes hit, but landed in 1985 Timeline 4 after the propagation wave had already passed.
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