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@  Nevermore : (10 December 2018 - 02:49 PM)

It's completely pointless... whch is exactly the point. Hundreds of workers showing up 50 minutes before their shift is over.

@  Nevermore : (10 December 2018 - 02:49 PM)

We're on strike until midnight tomorrow (Tuesday->Wednesday). Which means I will clock in at midnight and work until my shift is over... 50 minutes later.

@  Nevermore : (10 December 2018 - 02:48 PM)

Hahaha, awesome.

@  Cybersnark : (09 December 2018 - 09:36 PM)

But The Pillows prefer to kill you with Poison Rock'N'Roll

@  Rodimus Supreme : (09 December 2018 - 10:23 AM)

Pillows can kill you softly.

@  Pennpenn : (09 December 2018 - 07:26 AM)

His song.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (09 December 2018 - 05:34 AM)

But is anything killing you softly?

@  Pennpenn : (09 December 2018 - 03:03 AM)

Oh don't be ridiculous. Some things are killing us quickly!

@  Rodimus Supreme : (08 December 2018 - 10:46 PM)

Isn't everything just killing us all slowly?...

@  wonko the sane? : (08 December 2018 - 09:23 PM)

Except the planet of junk actually fosters life, as opposed to the garbage patch which is just killing us all slowly.

@  RichardT1977 : (08 December 2018 - 11:11 AM)

I realized the other day that the Planet of Junk/Junkion is the interstellar counterpart to the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.

@  unluckiness : (08 December 2018 - 08:56 AM)

awards are a joke to begin with. One for video games makes it twice so.

@  TheMightyMol... : (08 December 2018 - 03:21 AM)

Sorry, I had beans.

@  Waspinator : (07 December 2018 - 11:50 PM)

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose in the Mountains of Mist. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (07 December 2018 - 10:33 PM)

Always hopeful yet discontent, he knows changes aren't permanent, but change is!

@  Pennpenn : (07 December 2018 - 07:16 PM)

Nonsense. Everything changes, the cycle is an illusion.

@  Waspinator : (07 December 2018 - 07:03 PM)

Turning, turning, turning through the years. Minutes into hours, and the hours into years. Nothing changes, nothing ever can. Round about the roundabout. Round and round and back where you began!

@  Pennpenn : (07 December 2018 - 06:56 PM)

The change was you got something off your wishlist. Be happy about that if nothing else!

@  wonko the sane? : (07 December 2018 - 02:09 PM)

I finally got something off my steam wishlist! but managed to add another title immediately: so there was no change. Dang it.

@  Dekafox : (07 December 2018 - 01:46 PM)

They're the thieves everyone is talking about though!

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (07 December 2018 - 11:06 AM)

Wrong Phantom thieves!

@  Dekafox : (07 December 2018 - 11:04 AM)

I thought they were just trying to take the Lupin Collection pieces

@  MEDdMI : (07 December 2018 - 09:25 AM)

damn you Phantom Thieves and your "Take Your heart wallet" motto!

@  MEDdMI : (07 December 2018 - 09:23 AM)

@Tm_Silverclaw whaaaaa????? :o *sees trailer* AAAAARRGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

@  unluckiness : (07 December 2018 - 03:15 AM)

Great, Waspinator got exploded again.

@  Waspinator : (07 December 2018 - 02:39 AM)

Taka, Tora, Batta: Ta-To-Ba! Tatoba, Ta-To-Ba!

@  unluckiness : (07 December 2018 - 12:08 AM)

cyclone

@  Waspinator : (06 December 2018 - 11:39 PM)

that is super weird

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (06 December 2018 - 11:32 PM)

My brain broke!

 

Joker... From Persona 5... In Smash....

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (06 December 2018 - 10:25 PM)

That doesn't suprise me.. I'm more waiting for Rockstar to pull a Bethesda.

@  Steevy Maximus : (06 December 2018 - 09:46 PM)

Red Dead is running wild over the Game Awards. More than a few have been awarded where I don't feel they should have won.

@  Steevy Maximus : (06 December 2018 - 09:11 PM)

Marvel Ultimate Allience 3 Switch Exclusive for 2019!?

@  unluckiness : (06 December 2018 - 08:57 AM)

The red plastic holding it together kinda worries me. It's the gummi kind of clear plasstic andmoving it feels uncpomfortably close to tearing.

@  Shrug : (06 December 2018 - 08:17 AM)

Yeah, that happened to mine a few weeks ago. Common problem.

@  Pennpenn : (06 December 2018 - 08:05 AM)

Oh for cryin' out loud, the yellow part on the back hinge of my TR Weirdwolf broke. Bleh. At least the red is still there I guess.

@  unluckiness : (06 December 2018 - 04:59 AM)

Man, I still haven't gotten past Rock Tunnel.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (06 December 2018 - 03:28 AM)

You know nothing.. NOTHING! Eevee is our lord and savior! He will give us the cuteness we need! ;) No seriously.. Both Pika and Eevee in the games are way OP and Eevee can learn elemental moves to replace evolving.

@  TheMightyMol... : (06 December 2018 - 03:22 AM)

It's cute, what other point does it need?

@  Pennpenn : (06 December 2018 - 03:17 AM)

I can get Pikachu not evolving, the species has had decades of not evolving. But Eevee without evolution seems... pointless?

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (06 December 2018 - 03:15 AM)

Neither can Pikachu... And you don't need Eevee to evolve!

@  TheMightyMol... : (06 December 2018 - 03:15 AM)

Neither of them can evolve as starters.

@  Pennpenn : (06 December 2018 - 02:30 AM)

Also damn it my mouse wheel broke. What a pisser.

@  Pennpenn : (06 December 2018 - 02:30 AM)

It can't evolve.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (06 December 2018 - 02:29 AM)

How dare you! You KNOW Eevee is the obvious choice!

@  wonko the sane? : (05 December 2018 - 05:48 PM)

Finished mine a few days ago, and just bought myself (I really shouldn't have, but did anyway.) let's go pikachu with the pokeball.

@  Cybersnark : (05 December 2018 - 03:47 PM)

Mostly. There's a book en route to my mom's house from the UK and I don't know if it'll arrive before January.

@  Cybersnark : (05 December 2018 - 03:46 PM)

Christmas shopping: complete.

@  RichardT1977 : (05 December 2018 - 12:37 PM)

(which would lead to a bunch of bad jokes about him selling a line of cashews, almonds, and pecans)

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (05 December 2018 - 12:37 PM)

That would make sense per the precedent of Kamen Rider OOO ("Kamen Raidā Ōzu").

@  RichardT1977 : (05 December 2018 - 12:35 PM)

Wouldn't it be pronounced "Kamen Rider D's"?


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A quick question about combiners


20 replies to this topic

#1 phanhuyen345

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:44 AM

I was looking at my CW Superion & Menasor the other day and I got to thinking, how do they work?

 

I don't mean the toys, or even the fiction mechanical engineering of them, but more, how are the gestalt minds formed?

 

All the components have their own individual sparks, but do Superion and Menasor? If so, does that mean Silverbolt and Motormaster contain two sparks in their bodies? Their own and Superion's/Menasor's? If not, do the components each contribute all or parts of their sparks to form a temporary spark for the gestalt?

 

Or do they not have sparks at all? Are they simply an A.I. made of the mental impulses of the component members, and not truly alive at all?

 

I like to imagine that the combiner port that they all have is actually their spark chambers that attach and create a sort of spark circulatory system, where the energies of the individual sparks all flow together and create a temporary "super spark" that becomes the soul of the gestalt.

 


#2 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:03 AM

...

 

New question, new account?


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#3 Tindalos

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:25 AM

According to the club story Deadly Aim, the personalities of combiners are (usually) emergent from their components, and not a separate thing. They lack individual sparks, but they aren't simply AIs.

 

However, in the Power of the Primes series, the combiners there appear to have singular sparks.

 

So I'd say your super-spark idea makes a lot of sense, just as their bodies and minds are combined, with a singular entity emergent from the mix, so too their sparks become one.



#4 Octavius Prime

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:08 AM

I have always preferred the idea of combiners being their own individuals with unique sparks though that is usually NOT how they work in most fiction.

#5 NightViper

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:20 AM

I like them to all be different. For a guy like Superion, Vector Sigma needed to create six personalities - 5 for the Aerialbots, and another for Superion.

But for Menasor, even if there was a composite sixth personality there somewhere, Motormaster is controlling enough to subvert it and the other Stunticons. So he's just wearing his teammates as limbs... and they resent him even more because of it.

As far as sparks... again I like it varied. RiD Omega Prime for instance I'd say is a completely unique individual from Optimus and Magnus, mind and spark.

So... I left me it complicated I guess.

#6 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:24 AM

I think they tend to be depicted as a separate character from the components, but I don't recall if anything showed a separate spark for the combined form as a physical object.

#7 Shockwave 75

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:37 AM

I like them to all be different. For a guy like Superion, Vector Sigma needed to create six personalities - 5 for the Aerialbots, and another for Superion.

Yep. In that episode, "The Key to Vector Sigma prt 2", Optimus says "One Autobot (Alpha Trion) gave his life so that 6 (5 Aerialbots & Superion) could be born." Which would seem to suggest that Superion is a distinct individual.

But perhaps the super-bot's personality itself isn't quite formed and needs input from the individuals to form the rest of it's psyche. Thereby becoming a true gestalt mind.

 

But for Menasor, even if there was a composite sixth personality there somewhere, Motormaster is controlling enough to subvert it and the other Stunticons. So he's just wearing his teammates as limbs... and they resent him even more because of it.

Well, going off my last sentence, maybe Motormaster doesn't so much subvert the personality of Menasor, but he prevents it from forming. His arrogance is so great that he, either intentionally or unintentionally, prevents any input from the other 4 Stunticons from reaching Menasor, resulting in Menasor not having a fully formed mind. Which would explain his primitive behaviour.

But then you get the other combiners, like all the Autobot teams, and the few Decepticon teams like the Predacons, Terrorcons, and Seacons, who are all so like minded that they blend almost seamlessly into the gestalt mind. So well in fact that Abominus and Piranacon need to have timers to force a separation otherwise they'd stay combined and keep killing forever, eventually even turning on their own factions.




"The objective truths of the world are controversial only to people who are both under-informed and who like to argue." - Neil deGrasse Tyson


#8 Locoman

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:56 AM

I prefer the "Steven Universe fusion" take, where the combiner is its own separate personality.
"He learned, almost too late, that man is a feeling creature and, because of it, the greatest in the universe. He learned, too late for himself, that men have to make their own way, to make their own mistakes. There can't be any gift of perfection from outside ourselves. And, when men seek such perfection, they find there's only death, fire, loss, disillusionment, the end of everything that's gone forward. Men have always sought an end to toil and misery. It can't be given; it has to be achieved. There is hope, but it has to come from inside, from man himself."

#9 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:07 AM

That's a very loose version of "each combiner is its own separate personality", to the point that it's actually the opposite of what folks are stressing about Superion. Steven Universe fusions have only the memories of the individuals who are combined, and said individuals retain memories of everything they did while fused. The personalities are based entirely on traits of the individuals and anything "new" is emergent from things already present in them. And there's definitely not a separate life essence of any kind, the gems involved just all take on a shared intermediate color (the equivalent of "connected sparks" or whatnot). They've explicitly referred to Stevonnie and Garnet as "conversations" between their constituent parts. 


Edited by Copper Bezel, 17 May 2018 - 11:08 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#10 LV!

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:07 AM

It's pretty clear that most combiners are canonically supposed to be their own intellectual entities, from the ways they're described in their bios if nothing else (I've always loved the bit about Snaptrap having to set an uncombination timer before forming Piranacon because otherwise Piranacon will hunt prey until he runs out of energy and they're all stuck) but that doesn't really address the initial question about how it works with sparks, which to the best of my knowledge has never been addressed beyond, like, Machinima showing a single spark arising from the dead combiners (but even that could always just be the torso's, since they all die by getting holes shot through them).

My gut reaction would be that most of the time they can't have their own sparks, because we've seen many cases where the combined form is a later addition to a team of preexisting guys, normally under circumstances where it's hard to imagine another soul has been conjured up. The other question for me would be that if, say, Predaking has his own separate spark, where is it when the Predacons aren't combined? Does it just ride shotgun in Razorclaw? Is it split up along the whole team? And for Scramble guys, what if you make a combined with the "wrong" components? Is that new combiner's spark just the usual one, or is it somehow one-fifth Superion's spark now?

#11 Broadside

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:44 AM

The Club OMAM stories explicitly state that a five-bot combiner having a sixth spark is really weird and unique.

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#12 LV!

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:50 AM

So where do they keep them?



#13 Spark

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:57 AM

With Jesus.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#14 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:13 PM

There's always mass shifting. I mean, IDW used mass shifting and the Enigma to each play up the idea that there's something magical and exogenous in the mix, and you could extend that to a scenario where it's not just five smaller bodies stuck together, that together they're unlocking something else. Maybe there's a disembodied and incomplete Predaking mind floating around in subspace waiting for the Predacons to unlock and embody and complete him. That's a way you could play it. There's a lot of options. 


Edited by Copper Bezel, 17 May 2018 - 12:14 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#15 Verity Carlo

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:16 PM

So where do they keep them?

It's been a bit since I've read them, but from what I remember, they kept them in artificial matrices.


 

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#16 Tindalos

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:22 PM

Headcanon: the Enigma of Combination can "fix" a Combiner, making them a singular sparked individual, but unable to be separated without being "unfixed."

#17 Octavius Prime

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:55 PM

I have figured that the core/torso robot does in fact house a separate spark chamber for the combiner. This is easy to explain for the cons, since most of their combiners are monstrous entities that they don't want walking around unless authorized for combat and Megatron presumably has no problem keeping sparks locked up until needed. It's harder to spin for the autbots unless they are volunteers, or being made a combiner was the only way to save their spark after an emergency, or some such.

#18 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:16 PM

I have figured that the core/torso robot does in fact house a separate spark chamber for the combiner.

 

Do you mean canonically, in the fictions that already exist, you assumed this? Which ones? It never occurred to me that this could be seen as an oversight that required fanon, so if this is a common idea, I'm kinda surprised and intrigued. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#19 Verity Carlo

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:20 PM

Honestly, I never thought it was necessary for a combiner to have a spark; Diagnostic Drone and the like show that Cybertronians can be given personalities without one.


 

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#20 Spark

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

I always figured it was just kind of a temporary mix of the whole team's sparks, for the whopping five minutes in my life I ever gave thought to it.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.



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