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@  Otaku : (18 July 2018 - 02:39 PM)

@TheMightyMollusk Thanks for clarifying.

@  TheMightyMol... : (18 July 2018 - 12:34 PM)

@Otaku, most people were oblivious. The smart ones did their emergency shopping the day before, so there wasn't much left anyway.

@  MEDdMI : (18 July 2018 - 09:37 AM)

@wonko Only happened a few times and I don't remember the exact details, but yeah.

@  Otaku : (18 July 2018 - 08:06 AM)

@TheMightyMollusk Is that really the same thing? I mean, it is if the people were casually shopping and oblivious to the danger to them or the employees of the store, but if they were desperately trying to get needed supplies themselves... or am I just supposed to be smart enough to know you wouldn't have brought it up if it wasn't the former? >_<

@  wonko the sane? : (18 July 2018 - 07:59 AM)

Okay, what? I've had to explain why the TV wouldn't work when the power is out to children, but never to an adult in their right mind.

@  MEDdMI : (18 July 2018 - 07:44 AM)

*When I worked at the cable call center, some people wondered why their TV wouldn't work when there was an outage...

@  MEDdMI : (18 July 2018 - 07:43 AM)

w

@  TheMightyMol... : (18 July 2018 - 03:11 AM)

We had people still trying to shop while we were being pushed by state police to shut the store down due to flooding. The police finally had to help herd them out.

@  MEDdMI : (17 July 2018 - 07:36 PM)

Or working for an airline and people complaining about not being able to take off in severe weather, and expecting us to know when the bad weather will end. *points at window*

@  MEDdMI : (17 July 2018 - 07:34 PM)

Outages/fire alarms are fun when you work retail and people complain that they can't keep shopping.

@  Echowarrior : (17 July 2018 - 07:11 PM)

Outages occasionally happened at the fulfillment center I used to work at. Never fun.

@  Nevermore : (17 July 2018 - 04:51 PM)

Apparently the early shift (i.e. those who didn't participate in the walkout) were sitting in the cafeteria, waiting for power to return, while the late shift couldn't even enter the building.

@  wonko the sane? : (17 July 2018 - 04:18 PM)

Oh, wow. I thought the news about the website outtage would have been the topper, but that pretty much wins.

@  Nevermore : (17 July 2018 - 04:14 PM)

Whoopsie.

@  Nevermore : (17 July 2018 - 04:14 PM)

First the union called for a two-day strike yesterday, and then today the entire city where the Amazon warehouse I work at is located apparently had a power outage.

@  Nevermore : (17 July 2018 - 04:14 PM)

So,uh. Seems like Amazon's Prime Day really didn't go well this year.

@  unluckiness : (17 July 2018 - 09:55 AM)

It wasn't just blander and more polite bacon like I was expecting

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (17 July 2018 - 09:51 AM)

Canadian bacon.

@  wonko the sane? : (17 July 2018 - 09:15 AM)

And the even more important question is: is that ballpit deep enough to conceal a body... what?

@  unluckiness : (17 July 2018 - 05:35 AM)

THe more important question is if they have a ball pit

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (16 July 2018 - 10:18 PM)

How many attendees on average does TFcon get? And how about TFNation?

@  TheMightyMol... : (16 July 2018 - 06:31 PM)

I stopped reading it.

@  wonko the sane? : (16 July 2018 - 06:04 PM)

If talking about it here is all it takes to get you, why hasn't the oreo thread killed you yet?

@  TheMightyMol... : (16 July 2018 - 04:51 PM)

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL. Of your stomach.

@  wonko the sane? : (16 July 2018 - 04:09 PM)

Hey man, how you deal with yo problems is yo bidness.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (16 July 2018 - 04:08 PM)

I did no such thing! I am innocent of the pop tart corruption!

@  TheMightyMol... : (16 July 2018 - 02:57 PM)

You guys made me buy cinnamon roll Pop Tarts today.

@  Otaku : (16 July 2018 - 02:38 PM)

@D Immortalis Just fill the bag with air first and pop that? XP Oh, and you won't like that I grew up microwaving them more often than actually toasting. ;)

@  Otaku : (16 July 2018 - 02:37 PM)

@MEDdMI Yeah, the even more artificial flavors like S'more are the ones that usually taste good cold. There exceptions... I think it was Sugar Cookie that needed to be toasted...

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (16 July 2018 - 02:19 PM)

And.. Amazon is borked.

@  Donocropolis : (16 July 2018 - 05:55 AM)

@Tm_Silverclaw - Thanks for the heads up. Just ordered him and P/CP

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (16 July 2018 - 01:41 AM)

Repugnus up

@  Paladin : (15 July 2018 - 07:41 PM)

or add peanut butter.

@  MEDdMI : (15 July 2018 - 07:33 PM)

Nuke them enough in the microwave....?

@  D Immortalis : (15 July 2018 - 06:43 PM)

if po tarts dont POP then they become a lie.

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 July 2018 - 05:10 PM)

I typically just went for the traditional flavours... I think mostly Rasberry or Strawberry. I'll have to pick up a box next time I'm out

@  MEDdMI : (15 July 2018 - 04:09 PM)

@Otaku I've tried that too with a few of them. I liked the soda flavored ones they had. Too bad they were limited. :(

@  Otaku : (15 July 2018 - 03:48 PM)

@D Immortalis Most Pop-Tarts I like are better eaten frozen... and the only reason I started doing that is because Pop-Tarts commercials told me to try them that way. XD

@  D Immortalis : (15 July 2018 - 03:03 PM)

woohoo, just got my tickets to see From Ashes To New and Hollywood Undead on the 26th!

@  unluckiness : (15 July 2018 - 10:07 AM)

oh wow Jazz has heel spurs.

@  wonko the sane? : (15 July 2018 - 06:32 AM)

That's basically what happened to me. I was on that aisle for completely other reasons, caught sight of them in my peripheral, and then... just couldn't stop thinking about them.

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 July 2018 - 02:47 AM)

Hungry for pop tarts now - haven't had those in years

@  D Immortalis : (15 July 2018 - 12:32 AM)

anyone that doesnt put theit pop tarts in a toaster is a heretic.

@  unluckiness : (15 July 2018 - 12:32 AM)

Do they still make the cinnamon-brown sugar ones?

@  wonko the sane? : (14 July 2018 - 09:03 PM)

Yup. And?

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 July 2018 - 08:29 PM)

Aren't Pop Tarts like, totally junk for you by the definition of the word?

@  wonko the sane? : (14 July 2018 - 08:27 PM)

Four IS standard... but it's been so long I had forgotten.

@  Steevy Maximus : (14 July 2018 - 07:29 PM)

Bah, wonko, I remember when 4 was STANDARD

@  Paladin : (14 July 2018 - 04:10 PM)

https://twitter.com/NickRoche/status/1018234094310879234 people suck...

@  wonko the sane? : (14 July 2018 - 01:10 PM)

Me: opening a box of pop tarts. "Oh my god! There's FOUR in here?!?! Score!"


Photo
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A quick question about combiners


20 replies to this topic

#1 phanhuyen345

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:44 AM

I was looking at my CW Superion & Menasor the other day and I got to thinking, how do they work?

 

I don't mean the toys, or even the fiction mechanical engineering of them, but more, how are the gestalt minds formed?

 

All the components have their own individual sparks, but do Superion and Menasor? If so, does that mean Silverbolt and Motormaster contain two sparks in their bodies? Their own and Superion's/Menasor's? If not, do the components each contribute all or parts of their sparks to form a temporary spark for the gestalt?

 

Or do they not have sparks at all? Are they simply an A.I. made of the mental impulses of the component members, and not truly alive at all?

 

I like to imagine that the combiner port that they all have is actually their spark chambers that attach and create a sort of spark circulatory system, where the energies of the individual sparks all flow together and create a temporary "super spark" that becomes the soul of the gestalt.

 


#2 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:03 AM

...

 

New question, new account?


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#3 Tindalos

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:25 AM

According to the club story Deadly Aim, the personalities of combiners are (usually) emergent from their components, and not a separate thing. They lack individual sparks, but they aren't simply AIs.

 

However, in the Power of the Primes series, the combiners there appear to have singular sparks.

 

So I'd say your super-spark idea makes a lot of sense, just as their bodies and minds are combined, with a singular entity emergent from the mix, so too their sparks become one.



#4 Octavius Prime

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:08 AM

I have always preferred the idea of combiners being their own individuals with unique sparks though that is usually NOT how they work in most fiction.

#5 NightViper

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:20 AM

I like them to all be different. For a guy like Superion, Vector Sigma needed to create six personalities - 5 for the Aerialbots, and another for Superion.

But for Menasor, even if there was a composite sixth personality there somewhere, Motormaster is controlling enough to subvert it and the other Stunticons. So he's just wearing his teammates as limbs... and they resent him even more because of it.

As far as sparks... again I like it varied. RiD Omega Prime for instance I'd say is a completely unique individual from Optimus and Magnus, mind and spark.

So... I left me it complicated I guess.

#6 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:24 AM

I think they tend to be depicted as a separate character from the components, but I don't recall if anything showed a separate spark for the combined form as a physical object.

#7 Shockwave 75

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:37 AM

I like them to all be different. For a guy like Superion, Vector Sigma needed to create six personalities - 5 for the Aerialbots, and another for Superion.

Yep. In that episode, "The Key to Vector Sigma prt 2", Optimus says "One Autobot (Alpha Trion) gave his life so that 6 (5 Aerialbots & Superion) could be born." Which would seem to suggest that Superion is a distinct individual.

But perhaps the super-bot's personality itself isn't quite formed and needs input from the individuals to form the rest of it's psyche. Thereby becoming a true gestalt mind.

 

But for Menasor, even if there was a composite sixth personality there somewhere, Motormaster is controlling enough to subvert it and the other Stunticons. So he's just wearing his teammates as limbs... and they resent him even more because of it.

Well, going off my last sentence, maybe Motormaster doesn't so much subvert the personality of Menasor, but he prevents it from forming. His arrogance is so great that he, either intentionally or unintentionally, prevents any input from the other 4 Stunticons from reaching Menasor, resulting in Menasor not having a fully formed mind. Which would explain his primitive behaviour.

But then you get the other combiners, like all the Autobot teams, and the few Decepticon teams like the Predacons, Terrorcons, and Seacons, who are all so like minded that they blend almost seamlessly into the gestalt mind. So well in fact that Abominus and Piranacon need to have timers to force a separation otherwise they'd stay combined and keep killing forever, eventually even turning on their own factions.




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#8 Locoman

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:56 AM

I prefer the "Steven Universe fusion" take, where the combiner is its own separate personality.
"He learned, almost too late, that man is a feeling creature and, because of it, the greatest in the universe. He learned, too late for himself, that men have to make their own way, to make their own mistakes. There can't be any gift of perfection from outside ourselves. And, when men seek such perfection, they find there's only death, fire, loss, disillusionment, the end of everything that's gone forward. Men have always sought an end to toil and misery. It can't be given; it has to be achieved. There is hope, but it has to come from inside, from man himself."

#9 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:07 AM

That's a very loose version of "each combiner is its own separate personality", to the point that it's actually the opposite of what folks are stressing about Superion. Steven Universe fusions have only the memories of the individuals who are combined, and said individuals retain memories of everything they did while fused. The personalities are based entirely on traits of the individuals and anything "new" is emergent from things already present in them. And there's definitely not a separate life essence of any kind, the gems involved just all take on a shared intermediate color (the equivalent of "connected sparks" or whatnot). They've explicitly referred to Stevonnie and Garnet as "conversations" between their constituent parts. 


Edited by Copper Bezel, 17 May 2018 - 11:08 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#10 LV!

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:07 AM

It's pretty clear that most combiners are canonically supposed to be their own intellectual entities, from the ways they're described in their bios if nothing else (I've always loved the bit about Snaptrap having to set an uncombination timer before forming Piranacon because otherwise Piranacon will hunt prey until he runs out of energy and they're all stuck) but that doesn't really address the initial question about how it works with sparks, which to the best of my knowledge has never been addressed beyond, like, Machinima showing a single spark arising from the dead combiners (but even that could always just be the torso's, since they all die by getting holes shot through them).

My gut reaction would be that most of the time they can't have their own sparks, because we've seen many cases where the combined form is a later addition to a team of preexisting guys, normally under circumstances where it's hard to imagine another soul has been conjured up. The other question for me would be that if, say, Predaking has his own separate spark, where is it when the Predacons aren't combined? Does it just ride shotgun in Razorclaw? Is it split up along the whole team? And for Scramble guys, what if you make a combined with the "wrong" components? Is that new combiner's spark just the usual one, or is it somehow one-fifth Superion's spark now?

#11 Broadside

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:44 AM

The Club OMAM stories explicitly state that a five-bot combiner having a sixth spark is really weird and unique.

#12 LV!

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:50 AM

So where do they keep them?



#13 Spark

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:57 AM

With Jesus.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#14 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:13 PM

There's always mass shifting. I mean, IDW used mass shifting and the Enigma to each play up the idea that there's something magical and exogenous in the mix, and you could extend that to a scenario where it's not just five smaller bodies stuck together, that together they're unlocking something else. Maybe there's a disembodied and incomplete Predaking mind floating around in subspace waiting for the Predacons to unlock and embody and complete him. That's a way you could play it. There's a lot of options. 


Edited by Copper Bezel, 17 May 2018 - 12:14 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#15 Verity Carlo

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:16 PM

So where do they keep them?

It's been a bit since I've read them, but from what I remember, they kept them in artificial matrices.


 

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#16 Tindalos

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:22 PM

Headcanon: the Enigma of Combination can "fix" a Combiner, making them a singular sparked individual, but unable to be separated without being "unfixed."

#17 Octavius Prime

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:55 PM

I have figured that the core/torso robot does in fact house a separate spark chamber for the combiner. This is easy to explain for the cons, since most of their combiners are monstrous entities that they don't want walking around unless authorized for combat and Megatron presumably has no problem keeping sparks locked up until needed. It's harder to spin for the autbots unless they are volunteers, or being made a combiner was the only way to save their spark after an emergency, or some such.

#18 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:16 PM

I have figured that the core/torso robot does in fact house a separate spark chamber for the combiner.

 

Do you mean canonically, in the fictions that already exist, you assumed this? Which ones? It never occurred to me that this could be seen as an oversight that required fanon, so if this is a common idea, I'm kinda surprised and intrigued. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#19 Verity Carlo

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:20 PM

Honestly, I never thought it was necessary for a combiner to have a spark; Diagnostic Drone and the like show that Cybertronians can be given personalities without one.


 

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#20 Spark

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

I always figured it was just kind of a temporary mix of the whole team's sparks, for the whopping five minutes in my life I ever gave thought to it.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.



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