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@  wonko the sane? : (22 September 2018 - 01:53 PM)

So apparently some models of air-conditioner are on trays inside the case, so they can be removed for easy access to the internals. I did not know that two hours ago: and have since cleaned three. It's been a learning kind of day.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (22 September 2018 - 09:15 AM)

There's probably been a Pokedex-themed 3DS cover.

@  Noideaforaname : (21 September 2018 - 04:34 PM)

I still got that Pikachu Edition Gameboy Color from back in the day. Yellow and Blue and with Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Togepi on the screen.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 September 2018 - 04:30 PM)

Quote of the day: I either need bourbon or aspirin, and I'm pretty sure the liquor cabinet is closer than the medicine chest.

@  TM2-Megatron : (21 September 2018 - 02:38 PM)

I don't recall any Pokedex themed DS or Game Boy, but plenty of Pokemon-themed ones. My favourite, and the one I've got myself, was the Pokemon Red/Blue themed 3DS with the swappable faceplates that came out around the time the original games were made available via digital download

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (21 September 2018 - 02:30 PM)

I'm fairly certain Nintendo has done Pokéball red and white, but I don't know about specific Pokédex colors.

@  Paladin : (21 September 2018 - 11:10 AM)

random thought: has Nintendo ever made a 3DS that looks like a Pokedex? because that seems like a GOLDMINE waiting to happen...

@  Nevermore : (21 September 2018 - 03:23 AM)

Wiigii! Titans Return Grotusque for only 60 Euros (actually 70 but I somehow had an eBay gift card for reasons that escape me) with free shipping from within my own country!

@  Whirl Maximus : (21 September 2018 - 03:02 AM)

That was the plan for Predators too with the Super Predators.

@  Waspinator : (21 September 2018 - 01:46 AM)

So, apparently in the new Predator movie, the Predators don't hunt us for honor or the challenge or anything like that, but because they're stealing human DNA to modify themselves. Congrats Hollywood, on making a monster far less cool and scary.

@  Pennpenn : (20 September 2018 - 08:46 AM)

I only started playing it recently so I don't know what it was like before. Actually surprised they haven't finished the story yet. Then again, unless they introduce another world it's pretty much just Maleficent and whatever the Foretellers are playing at left.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 September 2018 - 08:30 AM)

Geeze.. I reloaded up Kingdom Hearts X for the first time in a long time. That game has massivily inflated from when I played it when it first launced in the US.

@  Pennpenn : (19 September 2018 - 09:07 AM)

It's an annoying thing to have happen in any game. I'm hoping they actually finish releasing all the story mode parts before 3 comes out.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (19 September 2018 - 06:24 AM)

Ahh. Hadn't played that in a long time.. Since before the PVP I think.

@  Pennpenn : (19 September 2018 - 04:33 AM)

Kingdom Hearts Union Cross. Specifically the PVP fights.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (19 September 2018 - 04:31 AM)

What game PennPenn

@  Pennpenn : (19 September 2018 - 03:13 AM)

Man, I love it when you've got limited attempts at something in a game, said game crashes at the end of the thing, so you lose the attempt but don't get any credit.

@  wonko the sane? : (18 September 2018 - 08:44 PM)

I know. I'm back to the classic purple for the first time since the comic theme was introduced.

@  Fenix Twilight : (18 September 2018 - 08:32 PM)

Alright thanks, gonna be weird without the speech bubble boxes but I'll manage.

@  wonko the sane? : (18 September 2018 - 07:59 PM)

Nope, ongoing problem for a bunch of us. The mods know, so... just hunker down and wait. In the mean time: changing themes will sort it out for a bit. Only the comic theme is affected.

@  Fenix Twilight : (18 September 2018 - 05:36 PM)

Is something going on? I'm missing the buttons to go to the newest post and there's no banner for the forum list, it just says "logo" in the corner.

@  TheMightyMol... : (18 September 2018 - 06:03 AM)

Leader-1!

@  Whirl Maximus : (18 September 2018 - 02:25 AM)

"huh?" 'chuckle' in every reaction shot. That's all I remember of Armada.

@  Paladin : (16 September 2018 - 07:36 PM)

if youre looking for sympathy its in the dictionary between shit & syphilis.

@  TheMightyMol... : (15 September 2018 - 03:10 PM)

Uuuhhhhhh.......

@  Rycochet : (15 September 2018 - 11:56 AM)

Due to it's concentrated lousiness, even small doses of Energon will age you, yes.

@  Lazy Garou : (15 September 2018 - 10:32 AM)

unicron trilogy video was great, but made me feel a hundred years old.

@  wonko the sane? : (12 September 2018 - 07:32 AM)

Awesome. Good job man.

@  Lazy Garou : (11 September 2018 - 09:30 PM)

cleaning up, mostly.but the little plastic piece where the power cable hooked up was broken. That I managed to put back together.

@  Patch : (11 September 2018 - 04:48 PM)

So he also has White Castle-like qualities?

@  TheMightyMol... : (11 September 2018 - 02:23 PM)

Just keep him away from the plumbing, he's really hard on the pipes.

@  RichardT1977 : (11 September 2018 - 01:22 PM)

Overlord has some castle-like qualities to him

@  wonko the sane? : (11 September 2018 - 12:15 PM)

Fix it, like, found a working power adaptor, or fix it like: there was saudering involved.

@  Lazy Garou : (11 September 2018 - 11:58 AM)

that feeling when you fix something and works like a dream. we now have a working snes in my house and I have tested 10 games on it and they all work.

@  Arazyr : (11 September 2018 - 10:44 AM)

...Now I want a Transformer that turns into a castle.

@  wonko the sane? : (11 September 2018 - 09:37 AM)

You should be careful man, lots of allsparkers life in castle law states. It's a good way to get shot you know.

@  ▲ndrusi : (11 September 2018 - 09:35 AM)

Which house? Mine? Dammit I thought I locked my door!

@  GrungeWerX : (11 September 2018 - 01:20 AM)

GrungeWerX in tha HOUSE!!! WOOT!!

@  TM2-Megatron : (10 September 2018 - 11:54 PM)

There's been consistently good sc-fi flicks; most just fly under the radar as lower-budget or indie pictures

@  Steevy Maximus : (10 September 2018 - 09:28 PM)

If you can forget about that garbage Ghost in the Shell feature...

@  Steevy Maximus : (10 September 2018 - 09:27 PM)

Upgrade is a GREAT dark sci fi throwback film. Kind of feels like the genre has been nailing some good stuff after a LONG time of drek

@  Sabrblade : (10 September 2018 - 06:34 PM)

Hey, Steve is a Vehicon!

@  abates : (10 September 2018 - 04:44 PM)

I thought it was spelled "Stege".

@  Arazyr : (10 September 2018 - 02:10 PM)

So, "I before E, except after Siege"? :D

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (10 September 2018 - 01:59 PM)

Memorandum to all: the word "siege" is spelled with the "i" before the "e".

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (08 September 2018 - 12:55 PM)

Happy birthday to Star Trek and Star Trek: The Animated Series!

@  MEDdMI : (08 September 2018 - 07:55 AM)

*smacks TMM upside the head*

@  TheMightyMol... : (08 September 2018 - 02:51 AM)

& Knuckles.

@  Pennpenn : (07 September 2018 - 11:01 PM)

Re: Coded?

@  Waspinator : (07 September 2018 - 09:14 PM)

Final Fantasy: The Movie: The Game: Pocket Edition HD Boogaloo


Photo
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A quick question about combiners


20 replies to this topic

#1 phanhuyen345

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:44 AM

I was looking at my CW Superion & Menasor the other day and I got to thinking, how do they work?

 

I don't mean the toys, or even the fiction mechanical engineering of them, but more, how are the gestalt minds formed?

 

All the components have their own individual sparks, but do Superion and Menasor? If so, does that mean Silverbolt and Motormaster contain two sparks in their bodies? Their own and Superion's/Menasor's? If not, do the components each contribute all or parts of their sparks to form a temporary spark for the gestalt?

 

Or do they not have sparks at all? Are they simply an A.I. made of the mental impulses of the component members, and not truly alive at all?

 

I like to imagine that the combiner port that they all have is actually their spark chambers that attach and create a sort of spark circulatory system, where the energies of the individual sparks all flow together and create a temporary "super spark" that becomes the soul of the gestalt.

 


#2 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:03 AM

...

 

New question, new account?


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#3 Tindalos

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:25 AM

According to the club story Deadly Aim, the personalities of combiners are (usually) emergent from their components, and not a separate thing. They lack individual sparks, but they aren't simply AIs.

 

However, in the Power of the Primes series, the combiners there appear to have singular sparks.

 

So I'd say your super-spark idea makes a lot of sense, just as their bodies and minds are combined, with a singular entity emergent from the mix, so too their sparks become one.



#4 Octavius Prime

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:08 AM

I have always preferred the idea of combiners being their own individuals with unique sparks though that is usually NOT how they work in most fiction.

#5 NightViper

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:20 AM

I like them to all be different. For a guy like Superion, Vector Sigma needed to create six personalities - 5 for the Aerialbots, and another for Superion.

But for Menasor, even if there was a composite sixth personality there somewhere, Motormaster is controlling enough to subvert it and the other Stunticons. So he's just wearing his teammates as limbs... and they resent him even more because of it.

As far as sparks... again I like it varied. RiD Omega Prime for instance I'd say is a completely unique individual from Optimus and Magnus, mind and spark.

So... I left me it complicated I guess.

#6 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:24 AM

I think they tend to be depicted as a separate character from the components, but I don't recall if anything showed a separate spark for the combined form as a physical object.

#7 Shockwave 75

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:37 AM

I like them to all be different. For a guy like Superion, Vector Sigma needed to create six personalities - 5 for the Aerialbots, and another for Superion.

Yep. In that episode, "The Key to Vector Sigma prt 2", Optimus says "One Autobot (Alpha Trion) gave his life so that 6 (5 Aerialbots & Superion) could be born." Which would seem to suggest that Superion is a distinct individual.

But perhaps the super-bot's personality itself isn't quite formed and needs input from the individuals to form the rest of it's psyche. Thereby becoming a true gestalt mind.

 

But for Menasor, even if there was a composite sixth personality there somewhere, Motormaster is controlling enough to subvert it and the other Stunticons. So he's just wearing his teammates as limbs... and they resent him even more because of it.

Well, going off my last sentence, maybe Motormaster doesn't so much subvert the personality of Menasor, but he prevents it from forming. His arrogance is so great that he, either intentionally or unintentionally, prevents any input from the other 4 Stunticons from reaching Menasor, resulting in Menasor not having a fully formed mind. Which would explain his primitive behaviour.

But then you get the other combiners, like all the Autobot teams, and the few Decepticon teams like the Predacons, Terrorcons, and Seacons, who are all so like minded that they blend almost seamlessly into the gestalt mind. So well in fact that Abominus and Piranacon need to have timers to force a separation otherwise they'd stay combined and keep killing forever, eventually even turning on their own factions.




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#8 Locoman

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:56 AM

I prefer the "Steven Universe fusion" take, where the combiner is its own separate personality.
"He learned, almost too late, that man is a feeling creature and, because of it, the greatest in the universe. He learned, too late for himself, that men have to make their own way, to make their own mistakes. There can't be any gift of perfection from outside ourselves. And, when men seek such perfection, they find there's only death, fire, loss, disillusionment, the end of everything that's gone forward. Men have always sought an end to toil and misery. It can't be given; it has to be achieved. There is hope, but it has to come from inside, from man himself."

#9 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:07 AM

That's a very loose version of "each combiner is its own separate personality", to the point that it's actually the opposite of what folks are stressing about Superion. Steven Universe fusions have only the memories of the individuals who are combined, and said individuals retain memories of everything they did while fused. The personalities are based entirely on traits of the individuals and anything "new" is emergent from things already present in them. And there's definitely not a separate life essence of any kind, the gems involved just all take on a shared intermediate color (the equivalent of "connected sparks" or whatnot). They've explicitly referred to Stevonnie and Garnet as "conversations" between their constituent parts. 


Edited by Copper Bezel, 17 May 2018 - 11:08 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#10 LV!

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:07 AM

It's pretty clear that most combiners are canonically supposed to be their own intellectual entities, from the ways they're described in their bios if nothing else (I've always loved the bit about Snaptrap having to set an uncombination timer before forming Piranacon because otherwise Piranacon will hunt prey until he runs out of energy and they're all stuck) but that doesn't really address the initial question about how it works with sparks, which to the best of my knowledge has never been addressed beyond, like, Machinima showing a single spark arising from the dead combiners (but even that could always just be the torso's, since they all die by getting holes shot through them).

My gut reaction would be that most of the time they can't have their own sparks, because we've seen many cases where the combined form is a later addition to a team of preexisting guys, normally under circumstances where it's hard to imagine another soul has been conjured up. The other question for me would be that if, say, Predaking has his own separate spark, where is it when the Predacons aren't combined? Does it just ride shotgun in Razorclaw? Is it split up along the whole team? And for Scramble guys, what if you make a combined with the "wrong" components? Is that new combiner's spark just the usual one, or is it somehow one-fifth Superion's spark now?

#11 Broadside

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:44 AM

The Club OMAM stories explicitly state that a five-bot combiner having a sixth spark is really weird and unique.

#12 LV!

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:50 AM

So where do they keep them?



#13 Spark

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:57 AM

With Jesus.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#14 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:13 PM

There's always mass shifting. I mean, IDW used mass shifting and the Enigma to each play up the idea that there's something magical and exogenous in the mix, and you could extend that to a scenario where it's not just five smaller bodies stuck together, that together they're unlocking something else. Maybe there's a disembodied and incomplete Predaking mind floating around in subspace waiting for the Predacons to unlock and embody and complete him. That's a way you could play it. There's a lot of options. 


Edited by Copper Bezel, 17 May 2018 - 12:14 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#15 Verity Carlo

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:16 PM

So where do they keep them?

It's been a bit since I've read them, but from what I remember, they kept them in artificial matrices.


 

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#16 Tindalos

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:22 PM

Headcanon: the Enigma of Combination can "fix" a Combiner, making them a singular sparked individual, but unable to be separated without being "unfixed."

#17 Octavius Prime

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:55 PM

I have figured that the core/torso robot does in fact house a separate spark chamber for the combiner. This is easy to explain for the cons, since most of their combiners are monstrous entities that they don't want walking around unless authorized for combat and Megatron presumably has no problem keeping sparks locked up until needed. It's harder to spin for the autbots unless they are volunteers, or being made a combiner was the only way to save their spark after an emergency, or some such.

#18 Copper Bezel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:16 PM

I have figured that the core/torso robot does in fact house a separate spark chamber for the combiner.

 

Do you mean canonically, in the fictions that already exist, you assumed this? Which ones? It never occurred to me that this could be seen as an oversight that required fanon, so if this is a common idea, I'm kinda surprised and intrigued. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#19 Verity Carlo

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:20 PM

Honestly, I never thought it was necessary for a combiner to have a spark; Diagnostic Drone and the like show that Cybertronians can be given personalities without one.


 

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#20 Spark

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

I always figured it was just kind of a temporary mix of the whole team's sparks, for the whopping five minutes in my life I ever gave thought to it.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.



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