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@  Maximus Ambus : (25 September 2020 - 11:58 PM)

Aw I scratched the hood of my 35th anniversary Bluestreak. Fortunately he's in robot mode a lot.

@  Sabrblade : (25 September 2020 - 07:24 PM)

No decoration could improve the wall more than Knockout himself

@  TheMightyMol... : (25 September 2020 - 05:04 PM)

The wall could use some decorating, though. Maybe a nice shelf or a portrait.

@  -LittleAutob... : (25 September 2020 - 04:32 PM)

I'm laughing so hard XDDD

@  ▲ndrusi : (25 September 2020 - 02:31 PM)

He doesn't even mind this time. You know what? It's comfortable here.

@  -LittleAutob... : (25 September 2020 - 02:23 PM)

AND THEN KNOCKOUT WAS IN THE WALL AGAIN XDDD

@  Bass X0 : (25 September 2020 - 01:11 PM)

is an annoying stage in Super Mario World.

@  wonko the sane? : (24 September 2020 - 02:15 PM)

Gnarly.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (24 September 2020 - 01:05 PM)

Beast Era, a blonde rat called Sunsqueaker.

@  TheMightyMol... : (24 September 2020 - 01:00 PM)

And then Knockout was in the wall again.

@  Sabrblade : (24 September 2020 - 12:53 PM)

Knockout: "Ooh, sorry, Lord Megatron. The correct word was... 'Decepticon'."

@  -LittleAutob... : (24 September 2020 - 11:15 AM)

Knockout: *while doing a crossword puzzle* Lord Megatron, whats a ten letter word for disappointment? | Megatron: ...... Starscream.

@  Maximus Ambus : (23 September 2020 - 01:20 PM)

@Bass X0 Shockwave did it.

@  TheMightyMol... : (23 September 2020 - 11:56 AM)

At least it's not Suntwerker.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 September 2020 - 11:19 AM)

I read that name as "suntweaker" the first time, and was terrified for a moment...

@  Bass X0 : (23 September 2020 - 03:41 AM)

Prowl did nothing wrong.

@  TheMightyMol... : (23 September 2020 - 01:50 AM)

Smashy, Stabby, Selfy, and Shieldy.

@  Xero Prime : (22 September 2020 - 08:52 PM)

RunFast, MuckyTrail, TrackBreaker and Sunstreaker

@  TheMightyMol... : (22 September 2020 - 06:16 AM)

Runamuck, Fasttrack, Sunstreaker, and Trailbreaker.

@  Nevermore : (22 September 2020 - 06:13 AM)

Cardboard and plastic.

@  Paladin : (22 September 2020 - 05:52 AM)

what's IN Wave 3, anyway?

@  Telly : (21 September 2020 - 06:35 PM)

i dont think theyre due for release until november. at least thats when target says ill get trailbreaker and sunstreaker. thought the wiki says theyre out in singapore

@  TheMightyMol... : (21 September 2020 - 06:01 PM)

Has wave 3 actually reached anywhere yet?

@  Maximus Ambus : (21 September 2020 - 04:40 PM)

A few more Bearimy's for Earthrise wave 3 to reach the UK

@  Spiritofeigh... : (20 September 2020 - 05:07 PM)

Cheers pal.

@  wonko the sane? : (20 September 2020 - 04:42 PM)

Welcome aboard!

@  Spiritofeigh... : (20 September 2020 - 04:38 PM)

Hey, new to the boards

@  RichardT1977 : (20 September 2020 - 02:29 PM)

I had an idea for a Spiral Zone/Go-Busters crossover fanfic...

@  wonko the sane? : (19 September 2020 - 06:35 PM)

I loved what was there, and think it's pretty ripe for "renegades" style reboot.

@  Rycochet : (19 September 2020 - 03:13 PM)

It's a shame as I loved Spiral Zone, and the design from the Japanese Toyline of the same name are fantastic, I adore the monowheel motorbike.

@  Rycochet : (19 September 2020 - 03:12 PM)

Hasbro doesn't seem to have any interest in doing anything with the TV show, haven't greenlit any attempt to rerelease it, and there have been approaches, so I think it may be aother one of Tonka's legal carcrashes where everyone involved owns a piece and it's not really worth anyone sticking their neck out to claim ownership.

@  Steevy Maximus : (19 September 2020 - 01:47 PM)

I feel that homages and references would be a fun way to expand the GI Joe brand, and give a little love to lines that are unlikely to be acknowledged beyond such capacity.

@  Steevy Maximus : (19 September 2020 - 01:47 PM)

I was under the impression that Bandai was more the character design aspects, not story or characters.

@  Rycochet : (19 September 2020 - 12:55 PM)

Also isn't it in rights limbo, given how it's loosely based on concepts from a BanDai series much like GoBots?

@  Rycochet : (19 September 2020 - 12:52 PM)

We don't need a Spiral Zone reboot, in a decade or so we'll be living it.

@  wonko the sane? : (19 September 2020 - 12:49 PM)

Yeah, but it would fundamentally change the base premise of both gijoe and spiral zone. It's either not the world spanning threat it was, or the zone riders are backed up by a competent force. Either way, you compromise the context of both.

@  Steevy Maximus : (19 September 2020 - 12:19 PM)

Akin to what was done with Matt Tracker in 2008.

@  Steevy Maximus : (19 September 2020 - 12:18 PM)

Again, not a PURE transplant, but an integration of ideas and concepts into the world of GI Joe.

@  Steevy Maximus : (19 September 2020 - 12:18 PM)

@Wonko The Cobra Overlord, with help from Dr. Mindbender and Cesspool, develops machines capable of generating a mind-controlling fog. GI Joe stalwarts Flint, Airtight, Lifeline, and Psyche-Out are joined by Colonal Courage to infiltrate these zones and disable the machines. Figures would sport hostile environment suits (Eco warriors cross with Spiral Zone) and make new versions of the mono-wheel vehicles.

@  Maximus Ambus : (19 September 2020 - 09:39 AM)

Hasbroverse.2 with bought properties: Bravestarr, Ulysses 31, Galaxy Rangers, Shadow Raiders, Manta Force, Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors, Mighty Orbots, Jem and Bigfoot and the Muscle Machines. Seamless.

@  wonko the sane? : (19 September 2020 - 08:32 AM)

While acknoledging spiral zone would be pretty boss, I doubt they could actively integrate it into anything else: given the scale of the villains deeds.

@  Steevy Maximus : (19 September 2020 - 08:03 AM)

COPS, Spiral Zone, Shadow Strikers, Action Man, Centurions, MegaForce. They wouldn’t replicate the old lines, but simply acknowledging their existence would be nifty.

@  Steevy Maximus : (19 September 2020 - 08:01 AM)

I would love to see GI Joe become something of a “celebration of action figures”. Hasbro has SO MANY old action figure properties, and many could slot into the GI Joe umbrella with relative ease.

@  Otaku : (19 September 2020 - 12:04 AM)

G.I. Joe, CyberCOPS, and M.A.S.K. all seem like something that would work from Animated or Prime, though CyberCOPS might have been a bit trickier from Prime.

@  Sabrblade : (18 September 2020 - 11:02 PM)

Rik Alvarez originally wanted the last episode of Prime to spinoff into a new MASK reboot.

@  Otaku : (18 September 2020 - 08:19 PM)

The failed Hasbroverse reminds me how so many things could have been spun off from Transformers: Animated and (after that) Transformers: Prime.

@  ▲ndrusi : (18 September 2020 - 12:43 PM)

Requiem of the Wreckers was post-Revolution, but it was also, you know, a single issue.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (18 September 2020 - 11:06 AM)

But Roche didn't have a series to keep out from the crossovers since Sins of the Wreckers was before Revolution.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (18 September 2020 - 11:01 AM)

Oh wait, that post said Roche, not Barber.

@  Rycochet : (18 September 2020 - 10:46 AM)

And then seemed surprised nobody particlarly wanted it.


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Hawaiians try to place legal restrictions on Loot boxes.

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44 replies to this topic

#21 Daith

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 02:48 AM

 

 

 

Lots of games use a similar style of micro-transaction, most games like overwatch and TF use some kind of loot box somehow to insentivize players to keep playing. EA, of course, pushed it way too far and someone had to step in to stop it.

 

I am so hoping this puts a huge dent into Overwatch.  That mediocre, overrated lobby shooter really needs to be knocked off it's pedestal.  I do blame it partly for the scourge of loot boxes that has started.  While they existed before its debut, just look at how common they are in a lot of MMO's, especially Korean ones, Overwatch really popularized them in a mainstream, non-niche game.

 

Hate on Overwatch if you want, but it's system allows earning the boxes without extra payment and everything in them is cosmetic only. Other companies took it too far (EA) and made it so gameplay enhancing items and progression could be gained with these paid boxes unfairly shifting the game in favor of those with money to burn.

 

 

Doesn't matter if it is cosmetic or not, it is still gambling.  A Lawmaker is not going to care if this gives a power boost or not, as you are still having underage people engage in a potentially addictive practice.

 

Hey while we're at it let's get rid of blind boxed vinyl toys, trading card games, capsule machines, claw games......

 

You can see this really isn't a new practice by a long shot. The form it takes varies over the years but it really hasn't gone away. Granted I know we have people who despise this practice, but most people don't give it no mind unless it's messing with the experience of the game. Frankly if you took all payment out of the Loot box systems and made them solely effort based there wouldn't be an issue here. It would still unfairly advantage the players with way too much time to play over a casual player. But what incentive would that give to the companies controlling the game to keep supporting them with new content.

 

Sure on the consumers side of things this seems like a despicable move but this is how the funds keep certain games alive now. Now I'm not going to defend EA on any of their paid DLC and loot crate systems because everything they have done has been a scam as far as I've seen. The SWTOR loot crates are beyond ridiculous and when they put something for sale on the market directly you might as well buy a new 3DS game instead for any special armor set or lightsaber they try to sell you. Likewise the way they were doing the Battlefront loot crates seemed even worse since paying players would have way too much of an advantage in the game itself with buffs and such.

Overwatch may have those paid loot boxes, but it's not the only way to get them. And actually the same goes for Battlefront as well right now. Sure the option is there in both games, but both allow you to earn them over time playing the game. Lord knows it's a hook, that much is true. But that biting that hook has benefits beyond the game. While again I refuse to defend EA's practices, Blizzard has done us well with Overwatch by using the funds gained to continually support the game with new maps, game modes, seasonal events, and new characters to play changing up the game constantly.

 

And yes new cosmetics for us to try and get too. I can't say much against the system if it provides the resources to keep the game fresh over time. Heck they've even addressed problems earlier with the Loot system by pretty much nearly eliminating duplicate pulls and increasing the in game credit for what you do end up duping.  You can hate the game and loot system all you want but at least Blizzards done us right with Overwatch.


Edited by Daith, 14 February 2018 - 03:13 AM.

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#22 Shadewing

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:08 AM

One issue with this, if it does take hold further and further, the end result might end up being higher priced games,

 


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#23 Monocle

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:22 AM

I never will agree with the "It is just cosmetics!" argument.  Years ago, these things would have rightly been condemned for the deceitful cash grab they are, yet now everyone seems so accepting of them.  It is because of that attitude that EA was able to go ahead and do what they did.  If using in game only currency that you earned  in game to get them was the only way to get them, it would not be a problem, but there is real money involved here.

 

It is still online gambling no matter what effect it has in the game.  This also means minors potentially are partaking in it, which has serious legal issues.



#24 Maruten

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:30 PM

DBP's post above about the actual content of the video is enlightening, I hadn't watched it and had only gone by the OP.

 

But either way, as has been mentioned, buying loot boxes is not gambling any more than buying a pack of Pokemon cards is (though obviously, one is entitled to one's own opinion on how problematic a pack of Pokemon card is). You know how many items you're getting, and while you don't know which specific items you'll receive you are able to know the full list of available items, so you're making a reasonably informed choice to buy an unspecified subset of items from that list.

 

That's not to say that people can't have an unhealthy relationship with that mechanic, obviously they can. But the same remains true of Pokemon cards or blind-bagged My Little Ponies or etc, etc, etc. 

 

As for minors, they're either unminor enough to be managing their own money, or they're making their purchases with the consent of their parents or via their parents without consent and/or knowledge. So I only see a need to be concerned about those minors who have insufficient parenting happening around their gaming. Which admittedly may be a lot of them. 

 

I'm not really interested in defending loot boxes, I think this is a worthwhile discussion to have and I'm certainly happy to accept that there are in-game purchase models that innately lean towards the predatory. But "buying blind-boxed hats" is not a thing I think we have to get up in arms about. 

 

I think it's a probably much more pervasive and troubling issue in terms of mobile gaming rather than consoles, where it's often the only source of income rather than a supplement to $60 disc sales. 


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#25 Shadewing

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:46 PM

Another topical video, snce people here are arguing what a 'good' lootcrate is:

 


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#26 Dekafox

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:12 PM

I still stand by the fact I think Star Trek Online does it "right." Every single object in the lootboxes does not bind to character, so if there's something you want you can almost always find it on the player Auction House(though it can be a pretty penny for popular items of course).  In fact, there's players that make it an in-game business - open a bunch of lockboxes, sell the contents, then use the funds to buy keys on the auction house to open more boxes. 

 

Actually that's another aspect I forgot - although someone has to pay real money to get the "keys" for the lockboxes, the keys do not bind so they also can get resold on the AH. So provided you're good at playing the economy or grinding crafting to make in-game money, you can even do the lockbox gambling method without ever spending an actual cent.

 

The only aspect they might be considered to fail on is that the lockbox contents are actual new skills and ships and traits, but that's mitigated by the ability to buy them from other players, so...



#27 Shadewing

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:17 PM

I still stand by the fact I think Star Trek Online does it "right." Every single object in the lootboxes does not bind to character, so if there's something you want you can almost always find it on the player Auction House(though it can be a pretty penny for popular items of course).  In fact, there's players that make it an in-game business - open a bunch of lockboxes, sell the contents, then use the funds to buy keys on the auction house to open more boxes. 

 

Actually that's another aspect I forgot - although someone has to pay real money to get the "keys" for the lockboxes, the keys do not bind so they also can get resold on the AH. So provided you're good at playing the economy or grinding crafting to make in-game money, you can even do the lockbox gambling method without ever spending an actual cent.

 

The only aspect they might be considered to fail on is that the lockbox contents are actual new skills and ships and traits, but that's mitigated by the ability to buy them from other players, so...

 

That actually sounds MORE like Gambling, since now they have a way to 'cash out'; which is where a lot of the 'not gambling' crowd draws the line on the difference between something like slot machines vs booster card pack. Its not real world currency, but the fact they can exchange he items for currency just to buy more loot crates... Sounds ALOT more like the former then the latter.


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#28 Maruten

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:27 PM

Yeah, at first glance I think "you can trade stuff with other players" is a GREAT mechanic for these models to have. But at the same time that inevitably leads to player-controlled economies that can be every bit as predatory as any game's native transactions, or more. 


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#29 Tm_Silverclaw

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:20 PM

Pokemon cards -have- already gone through this... That's why you get at least one foil card per booster pack now.

There will NEVER bee a Charizard situation again in the Pokemon Cards.


Edited by Tm_Silverclaw, 14 February 2018 - 05:20 PM.


#30 Dekafox

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:46 PM

 

I still stand by the fact I think Star Trek Online does it "right." Every single object in the lootboxes does not bind to character, so if there's something you want you can almost always find it on the player Auction House(though it can be a pretty penny for popular items of course).  In fact, there's players that make it an in-game business - open a bunch of lockboxes, sell the contents, then use the funds to buy keys on the auction house to open more boxes. 

 

Actually that's another aspect I forgot - although someone has to pay real money to get the "keys" for the lockboxes, the keys do not bind so they also can get resold on the AH. So provided you're good at playing the economy or grinding crafting to make in-game money, you can even do the lockbox gambling method without ever spending an actual cent.

 

The only aspect they might be considered to fail on is that the lockbox contents are actual new skills and ships and traits, but that's mitigated by the ability to buy them from other players, so...

 

That actually sounds MORE like Gambling, since now they have a way to 'cash out'; which is where a lot of the 'not gambling' crowd draws the line on the difference between something like slot machines vs booster card pack. Its not real world currency, but the fact they can exchange he items for currency just to buy more loot crates... Sounds ALOT more like the former then the latter.

 

 

The idea though is that you don't have to gamble to get the items - you can buy them from other people(who did take the risk).  Money still goes in at some point in the system, but if you want something you can get it without having to engage in that system yourself at all.  There is that risk that some player could come through and try to corner the market, and I'm sure it happens to some extent, but as long as the lockbox season is going more more will keep entering the player economy, and for a couple weeks before they rotate they bring out a special lockbox that has all the previous lockbox contents in it - instead of getting an item, you get a category of item, and you can choose anything that was dropped previously from that category, which limits that, and ensures that new players can still be able to get all the old stuff if they want it.

 

It turns the system from required to get certain items(like in ESO unfortunately) to something you can choose to engage in or not, at your leisure.



#31 Maruten

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:54 PM

Pokemon cards -have- already gone through this... That's why you get at least one foil card per booster pack now.

 

That's "minor balance change" though, not "sweeping legislation". 


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#32 Pocket

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:17 PM

Hey while we're at it let's get rid of blind boxed vinyl toys, trading card games, capsule machines, claw games......


I'm not seeing a negative yet. You wanna keep going and see if you can find something I'd actually miss?


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#33 Maruten

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:35 PM

What you’d personally miss isn’t really relevant. The point is that this is only one manifestation of a marketing trend that is widely popular in multiple media right now; legislating against it is pointless and impractical and in order to make even the slightest sense relies on stubborn ignorance of the many, many other avenues where the exact same model is available.

Not liking blind-boxed toys is fine, I get that, but banning them would be stupid.

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#34 Coglestop

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 02:36 PM

Actually you don't even have to buy the keys in STO, at least the last time I played. You could use the dilithium mining grind to buy Zen and use the Zen to buy pretty much anything in the game. The amount of time to do that wold be rather excessive though.

#35 Dekafox

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 07:27 PM

Ah, but the zen you buy with Dilithium is sold by other players who paid money for it, so the company still gets its money to support the game even then.



#36 Tm_Silverclaw

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 08:19 PM

But buying gold/zen whatever is different from loot boxes, there is no randomization. You know exactly what your getting.



#37 Dekafox

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 10:56 PM

Which is why I find the whole setup agreeable for what it is.  You can completely avoid engaging in the random element if you wish, and still get the same items/options/whatever, and the company still gets its money.  The only way it would be better would be if they put everything directly in the cash shop, and that'd pretty much kill most of the player economy in that game, since there's no random drop loot worth mentioning.



#38 Pocket

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 04:55 PM

Belgium has ruled that loot boxes that can be acquired for real money are gambling.

 

There's a conflict of information between what that article says (that loot boxes are therefore already illegal under Belgium's laws) and what Jim Sterling's video on the topic says (that they're not), so it sounds like a conflict between different translations from the original Dutch. Either way, this could be huge. It's not just the super-predatory games or ones aimed at minors that are guilty; Counter-Strike Global Offensive (which carries an 18+ rating in Europe) was specifically named; presumably Team Fortress 2, the game that started this whole mess, will be implicated as well if this goes anywhere.


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#39 Nutjob R/T

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 07:40 PM

Isn't the Swag Container the only thing keeping TF2's lights on at this point?
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#40 Pocket

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 10:27 PM

I imagine they still make more money off sales of specific items than keys, but they don't release the figures so who knows. Either way, the game is older now than the original Quake mod was when TF2 came out. It's had a good run. Their desperate attempts to play catch-up to Overwatch have gone from amusing to depressing, and at this point it's probably best that they just let it die. And hey, maybe this'll be an incentive to actually make some new games again like they said they would.


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