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@  Sean Whitmore : (15 January 2019 - 08:47 PM)

The fact that Adventure Time was on the air for 8 years and at no point did Nintendo hand the creators a large sack of money and say, "Please make a Mario thing for us" will forever anger me.

@  wonko the sane? : (15 January 2019 - 07:03 PM)

There was so much awesome put into design and conception of the super mario bros. movie, and it didn't even need the branding: but it wouldn't have made it to the screen without the branding.

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 January 2019 - 06:56 PM)

Many aspects of it have stuck in my memory, though. The boots, the devolution ray, the aesthetic of the dinosaur city

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 January 2019 - 06:55 PM)

I had no idea there was another Mario Bros. movie coming out, though. Doubt it'll top the first one, it was just so bizarre

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 January 2019 - 06:55 PM)

They already act a bit like minions; they just aren't stupid

@  wonko the sane? : (15 January 2019 - 05:35 PM)

The trouble is: I honestly can't decide if making them minions would be better or worse than the continuously shrill voices they've used for the last 20 years.

@  Paladin : (15 January 2019 - 05:27 PM)

hope everyone's ready for Toads to look, act & sound like the Minions forever...

@  Lancer : (15 January 2019 - 04:54 PM)

I mean, considering Illumination is making the new Mario movie, Super Mario Bros. 1993 won't be the worst Mario movie anymore

@  Sabrblade : (15 January 2019 - 04:36 PM)

"Sir, your pizza's here." "Not now!"

@  wonko the sane? : (15 January 2019 - 04:28 PM)

Actually, yeah. I think I need to watch it again. Great movie.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (15 January 2019 - 03:44 PM)

It's a fun movie with amazing sets. As long as you don't try to connect it to anything else Mario, it's fine.

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 January 2019 - 03:38 PM)

Damn, I haven't thought about the Super Mario Bros. feature film in forever. Need to watch it again, soon; I can only imagine it gets better with time.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (15 January 2019 - 03:21 PM)

Re:Zero is a fantastic series.

@  ▲ndrusi : (15 January 2019 - 03:10 PM)

Yeah it's not a bad concept, it's just that lately the term is associated with "I, a Loser Everyman, Woke Up In a Generic Fantasy Setting Where I'm Super Special So Now Girls Orbit Me"

@  Sabrblade : (15 January 2019 - 12:59 PM)

So too is the old Super Mario Bros movie

@  wonko the sane? : (15 January 2019 - 12:28 PM)

I went and looked up the term "isekai"... that's not actually as bad as I thought it was going to be.

@  ▲ndrusi : (15 January 2019 - 12:19 PM)

I'm not sure, but the cartoon segments of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show are.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (15 January 2019 - 12:12 PM)

Wait. A. Minute. Is Blaster Master an isekai?

@  MEDdMI : (15 January 2019 - 08:49 AM)

*Dragon Slave*

@  Xellos : (15 January 2019 - 06:22 AM)

I used to use a pic like that as my avatar for years, but that... is a secret.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (15 January 2019 - 02:07 AM)

Is Flatland an isekai?

@  MEDdMI : (14 January 2019 - 11:16 PM)

@Xellos Every time I see you post, I picture Xellos' infuriating smug grin and finger waggling with the "sore wa hi*mi*tsu*desu <3"

@  Waspinator : (14 January 2019 - 09:50 PM)

The Last Starfighter is also one of those

@  Cybersnark : (14 January 2019 - 09:28 PM)

Astronaut gets shot through a wornhole and ends up on a living starship full of escaped alien prisoners.

@  Cybersnark : (14 January 2019 - 09:28 PM)

I realized a few months ago that Farscape is a sci-fi-based Isekai.

@  Sabrblade : (14 January 2019 - 09:03 PM)

The Thor movies and Enchanted, as well.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (14 January 2019 - 08:45 PM)

@xellos We get to many of those in Hollywood movies.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 January 2019 - 08:13 PM)

Re:Creators!

@  Xellos : (14 January 2019 - 07:47 PM)

There is also Aesthetica of a Rogue Hero, where people regularly get summoned to a fantasy world, then eventually sent back with their accumulated powers (and the main character smuggles the demon lord's daugher by his request, which is a no-no)

@  Waspinator : (14 January 2019 - 07:23 PM)

We need more inverse isekais, like The Devil is a Part-Timer

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 January 2019 - 04:11 PM)

I feel like Tron is pushing it but I can't actually come up with an argument to that effect

@  Pennpenn : (14 January 2019 - 03:21 PM)

To Arazyr- I don't see why it wouldn't be.

@  Xellos : (14 January 2019 - 02:11 PM)

Just like how TRON and Captain N are early examples of "getting transported into a video game"

@  NotVeryKnightly : (14 January 2019 - 02:07 PM)

That would explain why it's so common for isekai settings to be blatantly RPG-inspired.

@  Arazyr : (14 January 2019 - 01:42 PM)

Would the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon count as isekai? 8^)

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 January 2019 - 12:06 PM)

I am in the exceedingly unpleasant position of knowing what you're talking about

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 January 2019 - 12:05 PM)

So I'll just say I can consume the series without endorsing the real-life lie that false rape accusations are common and successful.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 January 2019 - 12:04 PM)

I would go on to talk about that, but alas, that would spoil significant future story details about the accuser.

@  B-Fox : (14 January 2019 - 12:03 PM)

Shield Hero dared to have a male character falsely accused of rape, right?

@  B-Fox : (14 January 2019 - 12:02 PM)

At least now people will stop shitting on slice-of-life shows....

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 January 2019 - 12:01 PM)

listen just because it has shield in its name does not mean you need to ally with it

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 January 2019 - 12:01 PM)

oh good lord

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 January 2019 - 12:00 PM)

In fact, the Shield Hero series does not portray slavery as a good thing nor keep the initial slave characters down for the count.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 January 2019 - 12:00 PM)

If you're referring to The Rising of the Shield Hero, the backlash from some Western fans is misaimed, IMO.

@  Pennpenn : (14 January 2019 - 11:59 AM)

I wish I was more surprised that "slavery apologetics" is a thing. Still disgusted.

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 January 2019 - 11:53 AM)

But surely we all know the best isekai is Captain N.

@  ▲ndrusi : (14 January 2019 - 11:49 AM)

This morning I saw one of my friends express disbelief at having an opportunity to say "yet another slavery apologist isekai"

@  Lancer : (14 January 2019 - 11:21 AM)

Although recently they explicably acquire a harem by purchasing them as slaves, which makes it that much worse

@  Lancer : (14 January 2019 - 11:21 AM)

I think what people hate is the modern trend of isekai taking place in generic-ass fantasy settings with bland, oft-overpowered male protagonists that inexplicably acquire a harem.

@  Pennpenn : (14 January 2019 - 11:07 AM)

Does Kingdom Hearts count? On the one hand it's a serial world hopping adventure, on the other hand all the worlds are contained within the same overworld that the characters have always been in, just unaware of.


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James Cameron's Alita is actually a real thing?!


177 replies to this topic

#41 Spark

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 01:36 PM

...Alita is creepy as hell.  I don't think I can watch that for 2-3 hours or however long.


Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#42 NICK NEMESIS

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 02:12 PM

She's not supposed to be human though. I figure it's slightly off putting intentionally. It doesn't bother me.
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#43 Copper Bezel

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 04:34 PM

I don't think there's any question it's intentional, it's just a very risky choice. Because yeah, a lot of people are going to be put off by this. I love it, but I also love uncanny dolls. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#44 K Gatzby

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 04:54 PM

They had me at Christoph Waltz. He can carry any movie.


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#45 Maruten

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 05:02 PM

I find it hard not to be enthusiastic about Jennifer Connelly too. I mean, I'm not sure I've actually seen anything she's done since Labyrinth, but still. 

 

Oh, she did that one Hulk movie, right? There's at least that. And I think I saw Dark CIty. And I've definitely seen bits of the Rocketeer but maybe not the whole thing? 

 

fascinating and relevant post: concluded


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#46 Spark

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 05:33 PM

She was also the suit AI voice for Spider-Man in Homecoming.  Because that's an in-joke about her being married to the guy who plays JARVIS/Vision.


Edited by Spark, 11 December 2017 - 05:33 PM.

Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#47 Maruten

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 06:38 PM

Aw, that's cute. Haven't seen that yet. Also somehow had no idea they (Paulifer Connany?) were a thing. 


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#48 AgentOrange

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:34 PM

I find it hard not to be enthusiastic about Jennifer Connelly too. I mean, I'm not sure I've actually seen anything she's done since Labyrinth, but still. 
 
Oh, she did that one Hulk movie, right? There's at least that. And I think I saw Dark CIty. And I've definitely seen bits of the Rocketeer but maybe not the whole thing? 
 
fascinating and relevant post: concluded


Go watch Requiem for a Dream.

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#49 Teufel

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 12:58 AM

 

I mean, sure, the fiction can be used to wipe away a specific complaint that applies as a general comment about Hollywood. I guess it doesn't matter anyway. Forget I said anything.

 


 

So in the Alita film thread I should ignore the specifics of the Alita film? You made some broad complaints about whitewashing in a film by one of America's notable non-white directors who in the 20+ years I've been watching his work frequently has more diverse casts than the norm, this one not an exception. I'm not too familiar with the source material. Were any of the characters being played by Hispanic, African, Chinese, or Vietnamese actors/actresses those ethnicities in the manga and do you find it problematic if they don't match up?

 

The Ido picture was not my attempt to make a "point", I was just surprised that when I checked out your specific example of whitewashing he turned out to look like he walked out of a Nazi's blue-eyed-blond-eyed wet dream. How could I pass up making a joke? More seriously, why should he absolutely have to be Japanese? Was there anything central to his character that required him to be Japanese? Christoph Waltz is a fine actor. As long as they did not go out of their way to exclude a man of Asian descent or any other ethnicity what is wrong with his casting?

 

Are there issues with Asian representation in Hollywood? Certainly. I didn't watch Ghost in the Shell 2017, but it seemed to still be set in Japan so there's no excuse to have a white lead. The Last Airbender was a clear travesty. The Ancient One in Doc Strange was multiple layers of stupidity - heaven forbid an Asian mystic in Not-Tibet. Bruce Lee infamously came up with the idea for Kung Fu only to see him pushed aside and replaced with a very not Chinese David Carradine. It's harder for them to get roles that don't require some element of exoticism or mysticism or stereotype. Certainly for Asian-American actors China's box office is a bit of a mixed blessing because we see more Asian faces in our blockbusters nowadays to appeal to that cash cow, but they are imports who are famous Chinese stars. Not much of a help for an Asian-American looking for roles.

 

Where I would push back on is the lazy kneejerk notion that always comes up in all these threads that adapting a foreign property and localizing it is inherently "whitewashing" and bad. Death Note was set in Japan so it can't be transplanted to America? Ridiculous. There's nothing about it that prevented the core elements from being moved across the Pacific. The Film Gods should strike me down for even mentioning these movies in the same paragraph as Death Note, but take... actually, to just be safe...

 

Sergio Leone adapted Yojimbo and made one of the greatest westerns and other than not giving proper credit and having to be sued for ripping off Kurosawa, there was nothing wrong with that. Likewise Seven Samurai's adaptation into The Magnificent Seven was wonderful, is it a travesty that someone liked the story of Seven Samurai and wanted to put it into a different time and land?

 

It's not as if this is a one way street. Bollywood, South Korea, China, Japan, the Middle East etc. adapt US films and TV shows and change their settings and cast appropriately. There are many examples of this.

 

Clint Eastwood's classic western Unforgiven was adapted by the Japanese. Eastwood's wrinkly lily white ass was replaced by Ken Watanabe's wrinkly non-white ass and the Wild West was changed to the Meiji era. Good for them, it sounds pretty cool. The global cross-pollination of stories and ideas helps spur creativity and fresh perspectives. If someone in Japan sees Unforgiven and thinks it'd be bad ass to transplant its core concept to the Meiji era or a South Korean watches some episodes of Suits and thinks it'd be neat transplanted to South Korea or an Indian sees The Godfather and wants to give it a Bollywood treatment... more power to them.

 

So what's wrong with localization? What obligation does Hollywood have to adapt Akira and keep it in Neo Tokyo instead of Neo Manhattan with a cast that is more representative of American demographics and more representative of their domestic customers? Japan has its own film industry if it wants to tackle it one day and it's not as if the anime film is going to disappear. Likewise what obligation does China or Japan have to adapt American or European properties and have a cast that matches those foreign demographics? That's not anymore an "erasure" or whateverwashing as when it goes the other way.



#50 2019

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 02:40 AM

I think I've made myself clear, I want more Asian actors in leading roles and this film, based on a Japanese property, could do better than having two supporting cast members played by Asians. You're right, it doesn't have to be Daisuke, or any specific character, but the fact that none are there is noticeable and a reminder that Hollywood often shafts Asians.

 

Does that answer satisfy you?


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#51 Fear or Courage

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:27 AM

In an ideal world, in a couple weeks we'll be hearing about nervous executives pulling rank and delaying the movie to re-animate her face, like it was Justice League. Unfortunately, with James Cameron behind this, he can probably force it through.

 

It's a shame, as this looks to be 100 percent relevant to my interests, but I just cant get around those huge, fake, bad-looking eyes. 

 

Like, if this was in development hell for about 20 years, you'd think SOMEONE would have said something. It's kind of tragic to have all that work ruined by one dumb decision.



#52 Copper Bezel

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:33 AM

In an ideal world, in a couple weeks we'll be hearing about nervous executives pulling rank and delaying the movie to re-animate her face, like it was Justice League. 

In an ideal world ... reshooting like Justice League.

 

No. Nosir, those do not belong in the same sentence. = P


Edited by Copper Bezel, 13 December 2017 - 11:33 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#53 Maruten

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 04:15 PM



It's a shame, as this looks to be 100 percent relevant to my interests, but I just cant get around those huge, fake, bad-looking eyes. 

 

Like, if this was in development hell for about 20 years, you'd think SOMEONE would have said something. It's kind of tragic to have all that work ruined by one dumb decision.

 

It was baked in from the beginning and I suspect they'll be keeping it.

 

https://www.kotaku.c...et-is-reacting/

 

 

While talking to IGN BrazilSin City director Robert Rodriguez explained the decision to give the character these peepers, saying, "The manga anime eyes that we've seen since the '30s and Astro Boy has never been done photorealistically. So, usually when we see an anime translated, it doesn't feel like that."

Continuing, he adds, "The early artwork I saw that Jim [Cameron] had, before it was even technically possible, had that in her [Alita]. It was so striking and so arresting, I thought, 'My god, we have to do that. We have to be the first to bring a true manga and anime character to life.'"


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#54 2019

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 05:13 PM

You can do that without bugeyes, buddy.


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#55 Copper Bezel

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 05:30 PM

Yeah, I find that explanation significantly less convincing than the animation itself. The choice got weirder. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#56 Maruten

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 05:54 PM

Oh, yeah, it's terrible, terrible logic in a whole heap of ways and the outcome of those decisions is far from ideal. 

 

But it's deliberate and they like it. It amazes me that creepy blink-carefully-or-your-skull-will-fall-out eyes were considered so fundamental to the character that they were part of the designs from day one. It really doesn't give them the look they think it gives them. 

 

I think we'll survive it, but in the future people will write books about how weird it was. 


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#57 Destron D-69

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:07 PM

I like that they're fans of the anime and are making these choices in service of being faithful to it. 



#58 Maruten

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:37 PM

I get that, but at the same time it's a bit odd for them to say "let's tack this very specific aspect of stylisation onto an iteration of the character that is far removed from a context in which that makes sense". 

 

And I want to say "she's a crazy robot lady, her eyes can be whatever the heck size they want", but it isn't necessarily that simple. Maybe. Depending on etc etc 

 

They seem not to have gone Full Alita on the other characters we've seen, right? So how we take her design may be partially dependent on what everyone else looks like. 

 

Also I'm not entirely certain we're necessarily in good hands if they came out of the source material going THE CRITICAL THING WE MUST DEFINITELY CAPTURE IS ALITA'S MASSIVE EYES. Of course, there's nothing to indicate that they didn't collect a whole bunch of other useful takeaways. I'm still inclined to think this looks, from the tiny glimpses we've seen and the history we know, like an adaptation that will reward those who can make peace with the "Aliteyes", as they will surely be widely known. 


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#59 The Doctor Who

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:41 PM

as they will surely be widely known. 

very widely.

 

O_O


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#60 2019

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:43 PM

The problem is "big eyes" are probably the most superficial element of adapting a manga/anime/Japanese thing with big eyes in it, it really should have been last on the list of things to take away. But it's not, so it's going to be the first thing to be commented on!


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