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@  PlutoniumBoss : (16 April 2019 - 11:04 AM)

Well, when you understand the history of the area it make sense. It's basically a series of countries buying the place, moving in, saying "we rule you people now", and the locals shrugging and responding, "okay, you have fun with that".

@  Sabrblade : (16 April 2019 - 07:58 AM)

When did we all turn into Henry Higgins?

@  unluckiness : (16 April 2019 - 03:16 AM)

To be fair, most Americans can't get the hang of English, so I can understand why.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (16 April 2019 - 03:15 AM)

(And yeah, Calliope is a Greek muse, not French, but the street was named BY the French when they took over.)

@  PlutoniumBoss : (16 April 2019 - 03:10 AM)

In New Orleans there's a bunch of streets with French names that are pronounced by locals with a more English emphasis, for example "Calliope Street" is pronounced "CAL-lee-ope".

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (15 April 2019 - 11:56 PM)

I figured as much for Canadians.

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 April 2019 - 11:37 PM)

hm; whenever I've heard people talk about the school they said it the same way as the cathedral...but I guess that's in Canada, so they're probably more familiar with the cathedral than the school

@  Dracula : (15 April 2019 - 11:11 PM)

There's plenty of place names in the US like that. Around here we have an "el doh-RAY-doh," and up north there's a Cairo that's pronounced "kay-roh"

@  RichardT1977 : (15 April 2019 - 09:56 PM)

Yeah, the common pronunciation of the University is probably the reason most Americans don't pronounce the Cathedral name correctly.

@  Arazyr : (15 April 2019 - 08:03 PM)

That's my understanding of how the two are supposed to be pronounced as well.

@  Echowarrior : (15 April 2019 - 07:42 PM)

When I'm talking about the cathedral, I say "noh-treh dahme". When I talk about the university, I say "noh-ter dayme". I don't see a problem with that.

@  Paladin : (15 April 2019 - 06:26 PM)

guessing "Hunchback" just got bumped WAY down the list for Disney's live-action remakes...

@  Patch : (15 April 2019 - 05:56 PM)

We all pronounce it wrong, so no one knows enough to care.

@  TM2-Megatron : (15 April 2019 - 05:40 PM)

It'd be odd for most Americans not to know how to pronounce Notre Dame, considering they have a University with the same name that's the subject of a relatively popular film based around a sport most Americans love

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (15 April 2019 - 04:22 PM)

Three or four more hours will be needed to contain the fire.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (15 April 2019 - 04:22 PM)

Update from France 24: the Paris Fire Brigade says two towers and the main structure of the cathedral have been saved from complete destruction.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (15 April 2019 - 03:57 PM)

One does not have to speak French to know that rhyming with "voter name" is off the mark.

@  Locoman : (15 April 2019 - 03:51 PM)

Really? It's an international tragedy and you're zeroing in on the people who maybe don't speak French?

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (15 April 2019 - 03:44 PM)

@Tm_Silverclaw I just read on BBC News that the cause is not yet clear, but officials suspect the fire could be linked to renovation work.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (15 April 2019 - 03:42 PM)

Oh boy, here we go with the U.S.-American newscasters who can't pronounce "Notre Dame" correctly.

@  TheMightyMol... : (15 April 2019 - 03:38 PM)

Too soon to say.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (15 April 2019 - 03:20 PM)

Do we know if it was an attack? Arson? Or just bad wiring?

@  Nevermore : (15 April 2019 - 02:10 PM)

Religion is dead?

@  Paladin : (15 April 2019 - 02:01 PM)

major cathedral burning down on Holy Week is some kind of metaphor.

@  Benbot : (15 April 2019 - 12:54 PM)

Hard to believe a wonder of the world could just be wiped out so easily. Hopefully they can still save it

@  Benbot : (15 April 2019 - 12:51 PM)

Well, Notre Dame is burning down

@  Benbot : (15 April 2019 - 10:05 AM)

yikes I thought the site was going to be down for a while

@  Nevermore : (14 April 2019 - 09:07 PM)

So, time for another strike. No sleep for me tonight. Oh well.

@  Nevermore : (14 April 2019 - 09:04 PM)

Think Game of Thrones "light" meets Cabaret and you get the idea.

@  Nevermore : (14 April 2019 - 09:03 PM)

Kinda sorta, just with more intrigue, conspiracy, depravity, crime and violence.

@  RichardT1977 : (14 April 2019 - 06:37 PM)

So it's like a prequel to Cabaret?

@  Nevermore : (14 April 2019 - 04:02 PM)

And man, characters are smoking literally EVERYWHERE.

@  Nevermore : (14 April 2019 - 03:27 PM)

Also, full frontal male nudity. (There's been quite a bit of female nudity since episode 1.)

@  Nevermore : (14 April 2019 - 03:26 PM)

Episode 6, and Hitler is randomly name-checked.

@  Xellos : (14 April 2019 - 12:22 PM)

Runa runa!

@  Sabrblade : (14 April 2019 - 09:10 AM)

Wocka wocka!

@  The Doctor Who : (14 April 2019 - 06:59 AM)

Lewd

@  Paladin : (14 April 2019 - 06:57 AM)

troutstick.

@  MEDdMI : (14 April 2019 - 06:34 AM)

With a trout.

@  Xellos : (14 April 2019 - 05:44 AM)

With a stick?

@  MEDdMI : (13 April 2019 - 10:56 PM)

*slaps them both*

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 April 2019 - 07:31 PM)

Seems like a polarizing decision, but it's not like jest anyone could make it for you.

@  Xellos : (13 April 2019 - 06:06 PM)

I had an epiphany today. My spirit animal is Fozzie Bear. We both love our un-bear-able jokes, which make people feel like they are being pun-ished.

@  Nevermore : (12 April 2019 - 06:24 AM)

That's what makes the show so poignant, I think. It take a contemporary perspective, rather than a modern one. The hardships of the time aren't glossed over, but they're portrayed very stoically. Yeah, many people suffered, there was poverty, but so was life at the time. There's also a high-ranking Jewish police official who's a very by-the-books guy and supports the frail democracy of Weimar Germany. If you want to learn more about how Germany BEFORE the Period Everyone Knows About, this show is as good as it gets.

@  Nevermore : (12 April 2019 - 06:19 AM)

Because in retrospect, we (even here in Germany) tend to view the era with knowledge of what would later come, but in reality, the Nazis started out as a regional fringe movement and basically just happened to be in the right place at the right time to seize power.

@  Nevermore : (12 April 2019 - 06:18 AM)

The communists are a much bigger threat. When the Nazis appear, they will likely do so with a bang. Like, completely out of left field.

@  Nevermore : (12 April 2019 - 06:17 AM)

The show tries its best to accurately depict the zeitgeist of the era, the post-war period with a young, struggling (and ultimately doomed) democracy... but like in real life, the Nazis aren't really an issue on anyone's mind yet.

@  Nevermore : (12 April 2019 - 06:16 AM)

The female lead is a young, aspiring typist and part-time prostitute who dreams of becoming a police officer working in the murder department.

@  Nevermore : (12 April 2019 - 06:15 AM)

During his investigations, he becomes involved in political unrest, murder cases, a conspiracy of reactionary monarchists, Russian counter-revolutionaries and more.

@  Nevermore : (12 April 2019 - 06:14 AM)

@Benbot: Babylon Berlin is a film noir-style crime drama set in the German capital of Berlin in the year 1929. It features a World War I veteran turned police officer from Cologne who comes to Berlin to investigate a porn ring that blackmails his superior, the grand mayor of Cologne (who would later become the first chancellor of post-WWII Germany).


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* * * * * 1 votes

James Cameron's Alita is actually a real thing?!


346 replies to this topic

#21 2019

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 06:17 AM

 

but the problem and the responsibility relating to Asian actors in American film is not an anime adaptation problem, it's industry-wide.

 

Doesn't make it any less worth complaining about?


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#22 Copper Bezel

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 06:28 AM

It's just conspicuous attention when it comes up primarily in reference to anime adaptations and the like. Like, yes, this film's source material came with an easy "justification" for putting an Asian actor in a particular principal role (and specifically a Japanese actor). Maybe that constitutes a missed opportunity. But it's ultimately no more important for him to be played by an Asian actor than ... pick an action blockbuster, a random principal character, and an ethnicity from your side of the planet. So I feel it's conflating two separate issues, and the important one doesn't have a whole lot to do with this film in particular. 

 

Edit: If you're already looking at films like this as a vehicle for pitching Asian actor roles, though, I guess I can see that "missed opportunity" as having a bigger bearing on the broader issue.


Edited by Copper Bezel, 09 December 2017 - 06:34 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#23 2019

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 06:42 AM

 

Edit: If you're already looking at films like this as a vehicle for pitching Asian actor roles, though, I guess I can see that "missed opportunity" as having a bigger bearing on the broader issue.

 

Pretty much. If people keep going to whitewashed movies, Hollywood will be even less likely to consider not whitewashing in the future.


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#24 Verity Carlo

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 01:08 PM

DQjU37JW0AAtYuZ.png


 

staring dog stares

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#25 Ironbite

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:01 PM

.... hug

xC9l3eY.gif


#26 Maruten

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:12 PM

It would be better obviously if this was a Japanese movie full of Japanese people. But it's an American movie based on a Japanese property. Assuming it isn't still full of stuff that's trying to be Japanese (which I gather GITS unfortunately was?) there isn't any particular reason for Ido (or etc) to retain Japaneseness beyond general respect for diversity, right? It's not a This Was Japanese And Must Remain Japanese thing. It's an American remake like Ring or Power Rangers or the Magnificent Seven. I mean, Power Rangers probably isn't a good example really because there's a whole other layer of stuff happening there where they're actively pretending that the Japanese dudes in their original footage are a bunch of kids from Ohio or whatever as soon as they take off their hats. I don't know how we feel about that. It's basically the same as, say, The Office, right? You're rebuilding from the ground up as an American product. You don't have to cast a whole lot of Brits.

There are a lot of different angles here. At the root we have "should American dudes be buying up the rights to make dodgy remakes of Japanese classics in the first place". After that we get to "if they throw some Japanese stuff in as a nod to the source material, how respectful and/or problematic will it end up being". It's also wrinkled by the whole science fiction animation thing. UnlikeThe Office they can have a Belgian woman voicing a dinosaur from Neptune. Which might score them extra points, or might make a bigger mess.

These aren't really worms I want to uncan. I think my nutshell is This Is a Wholly American And Shouldn't Have To Pretend Not To Be. Which isn't to say that they have a pass to exclude diversity-related thinking from their casting processes, but The Manga Was Japanese So The American Movie Has To Be Japanese I'm not sure on.

WsuGTl1.jpg


#27 Internet Jesus

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:14 PM

I don't really care about the adaptation/casting issues, Alita just triggers my Uncanny Valley and I want it out of existence.


But in the current, digitized world, trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness. Never fading, always accessible. Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander... All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate. It will only slow down social progress, reduce the rate of evolution. You seem to think that our plan is one of censorship. What we propose to do is not to control content, but to create context.


#28 Teufel

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:03 PM

Woo, another Asian property with white actors.

 

:???

 

Link

 

 

The futuristic dystopian world of Battle Angel Alita revolves around the metropolis known as the Scrapyard,

 

 

The story takes place in the former United States. According to a map printed in Fallen Angel Scrapyard and Tiphares are near Kansas City, Missouri, and the Necropolis is Colorado Springs, Colorado. Radio KAOS is at Dallas, Texas. Figure's coastal hometown is Alhambra, California. Desty Nova's Granite Inn is built out of a former military base - NORAD at Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado.[1]

 

White people in a dystopian former United States? smdh!

 

Rosa Salazar - Alita
Christoph Waltz
Jennifer Connelly
Mahershala Ali
Ed Skrein
Jackie Earle Haley
Keean Johnson
Michelle Rodriguez
Lana Condor (part Vietnamese)
Elza Gonzalez
Idara Victor
Jorge Lendeborg Jr
Leonard Wu
Marko Zaror

 

Actually pretty diverse, although that's undoubtedly in no small part because of Robert Rodriguez.

 

Right, but they've explicitly changed main Japanese character Daisuke Ido into a white dude named Dyson Ido, so uh...

 

Posted Image

 

Are you sure he wasn't just a weeaboo?

 

On another note, this animatronic Lincoln reminded me of Alita.

 



#29 2019

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:58 PM

I mean, sure, the fiction can be used to wipe away a specific complaint that applies as a general comment about Hollywood. I guess it doesn't matter anyway. Forget I said anything.


Edited by 2017, 09 December 2017 - 10:03 PM.

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#30 Telly

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:32 PM

The original, in both media, is a great classic of a bygone era, a sparkling gem in a sea of bland cyberpunk nonsense. Do they still make bland cyberpunk nonsense? I almost miss it. Back in the olden days, you took whatever shitty anime you could find and you were grateful for it.

 

assuming you could FIND any! there was a supermarket in my town with a video section and i found a couple there (macross clash of the bionoids [aka an edited version of dyrl], and revenge of the ninja wariior [aka an edited version of dagger of kamui]). found a harlock video at kaybee toys i think. things got better when the 90s arrived

 

being an anime fan in the 80s pretty much sucked :(


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#31 Blot

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:07 PM

 

5688-1336707636_zpsncgo8o8r.png

 

Egon?



#32 Maruten

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 02:14 AM

I mean, sure, the fiction can be used to wipe away a specific complaint that applies as a general comment about Hollywood. I guess it doesn't matter anyway. Forget I said anything.

As a general complaint about Hollywood, I'm right there with you. I don't know what the missing steps are between No Representation, Offensive Tropery, and Everything Is Better, but hopefully we get that sorted out soon. Should there be a place in this movie, and every movie, and TV show, and etc, for people who aren't obnoxious white dudes? Absolutely.

And true, Ido (despite his Japanese name) has never looked remotely Japanese and why would he, the story is set in America etc, sure. But how many anime and manga characters DO look Japanese? But they still are Japanese, and/or have that Japanese context baked in. You can't necessarily just divorce the character from that heritage simply because they happen to look like RGB Egon (which, thanks for that, can't unsee :) ).

AAAAAANYWAY I love the manga and I hope this movie doesn't suck. I must pop over to ComiXology and replace my twenty year old trades. I don't have much patience for the motorball stuff but on the whole, it's gold. Interesting that even in this relatively enlightened time we're still stuck with that Battle Angel Alita dressing and we still aren't getting a translation of Gunnm starring a chick called Gally.

Edited by Maruten, 10 December 2017 - 02:15 AM.

WsuGTl1.jpg


#33 Destron D-69

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 03:14 AM

Casting white people in Akira I could understand the issue... but these characters look as Japanese as I do.

 

which I don't. 

 

Next people are going to be offended if Roy Fokker is played by a white guy.

 

 roy-fokker-robotech-the-macross-saga-0.55.jpg

 

Clearly the Japaneseiest Japanese guy ever to come from Japan ... can't you tell...

 

O_o 



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#34 2019

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 03:24 AM

Oh please, if you made his hair black he'd look exactly as Japanese as his subordinate Hikaru. Anime is styled and doesn't resemble real humans 90% of the time, everyone knows this and it's a dummy point.


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#35 Copper Bezel

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:27 AM

Yeah, anime Japan has always had blonde people and has a fair minority of blue-haired, pink-haired, and purple-eyed folks. It's really helpful for viewers like me with moderate face-blindness who can't even tell Hollywood actors apart half the time if they have the same hair styles. And Kamen rider is hard, mang. 

 

I mean, sure, the fiction can be used to wipe away a specific complaint that applies as a general comment about Hollywood. I guess it doesn't matter anyway. Forget I said anything.

That's pretty much where I am with it, yeah. :shrug: It's tiring to see it come up with every anime property that gets a Hollywood treatment, since such movies generally have enough problems of their own to deal with. Half the posts in this thread indicate that Alita's eyes are going to be a similar challenge already. Personally, I'm seeing a treatment that makes sense of a manga property that can actually be handled in a Hollywood movie, by a reasonably sensible director. And kinda digging some of the design work we're seeing.


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#36 Destron D-69

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 09:49 AM

yeah. it's going to be a great movie. and moaning equality transgressions aren't going to make me feel bad for it actually casting people that they wanted instead of bowing to pressure and getting somebody killed like Deadpool two.

 

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#37 Maruten

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 05:12 PM

I think those eyes on Alita are crazy and ill-advised (though on a rewatch they don't seem as bad as I initially thought), but Christoph Waltz in Ido sauce looks to be a great example of how to do this kind of creepy human/CGI hybrid design right. It's him, but tweaked enough to bring out extra Ido and I think it works. 

 

It's still a kind of disturbing point on the human > cartoon spectrum, but clearly that's deliberate and I'm basically happy to applaud them for that. 

 

It's obviously a project that  Cameron is very passionate about given how long he's been working on it, so I wish them all the best. If you're going to adapt a manga series in Hollywood there are worse books to pick - it lends itself to an American remake better than many would. It might still be crap though obviously. 

 

It certainly has a better chance of not being dreadful than Akira, which is very sad because Akira is a vast masterpiece in its original form and deserves a better adaptation than the movie it got. I would love to see Akira adapted properly as an anime TV series or three or four movies. 


WsuGTl1.jpg


#38 Dante

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:28 PM

Casting white people in Akira I could understand the issue... but these characters look as Japanese as I do.

 

which I don't. 

 

Next people are going to be offended if Roy Fokker is played by a white guy.

 

 attachicon.gifroy-fokker-robotech-the-macross-saga-0.55.jpg

 

Clearly the Japaneseiest Japanese guy ever to come from Japan ... can't you tell...

 

O_o 

At least Sunrise didn't give Roy a random Japanese name.  Unlike, say, a certain white Canadian-American Gundam protagonist.

 

Oddly no one complains about Hikaru being changed to Rick, though.


Edited by Dante, 10 December 2017 - 06:30 PM.


#39 Benbot

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 08:30 PM

I wish James Cameron would invest some time in getting The Abyss and True Lies released on a format newer than DVD... between this and his 15 or whatever Avatar sequels it seems like it'll never happen.

 

The recent 4K edition of Terminator 2 has been something of a disaster, too.

Why, what's wrong with it?  What happened?



#40 Cybersnark

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 12:59 PM

And true, Ido (despite his Japanese name) has never looked remotely Japanese and why would he, the story is set in America etc,

Because (and this is the key point about representation in American-made media): there are ethnically-Asian people living in America, who are as "American" as any white person.

The problem isn't the lack of Asian people, it's the default assumption that "American" = "white" (which, BTW, is why other countries often don't see the problem, because they think America is 99% white people, because that's how America has presented itself onscreen for decades).



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