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@  Paladin : (18 December 2018 - 02:22 PM)

depends on which half...

@  MEDdMI : (18 December 2018 - 01:43 PM)

isn't half the fun of streaking having people see you?

@  wonko the sane? : (18 December 2018 - 12:52 PM)

bad place for streaks and streakers.

@  Paladin : (18 December 2018 - 08:52 AM)

glass house? :p

@  MEDdMI : (18 December 2018 - 08:39 AM)

Stay out of Mayhem. Those people are nuts.

@  Pennpenn : (18 December 2018 - 02:24 AM)

Welcome back! It's a sub menu in General Discussion

@  Autobot Method : (17 December 2018 - 10:01 PM)

We still got fun and games? I haven't logged in in years. Sup everyone

@  Waspinator : (17 December 2018 - 12:29 AM)

I'd say it's more of a crushing sensation than a sucking one.

@  wonko the sane? : (16 December 2018 - 09:57 PM)

Whole heartedly agree.

@  Paladin : (16 December 2018 - 07:22 PM)

migraines suck.

@  TM2-Megatron : (16 December 2018 - 04:39 PM)

They may have had it earlier than that; Risa uses weather control tech to maintain its resort-style climate, and it was shown to already be established in the late 22nd century

@  wonko the sane? : (16 December 2018 - 03:13 PM)

By next gen they had weather control on earth, and were even in the process of upgrading the geologic stability network. So yeah: habitat maintenance on the next level.

@  TheMightyMol... : (16 December 2018 - 02:51 PM)

Something something invert polarity something technobabble something.

@  TM2-Megatron : (16 December 2018 - 02:38 PM)

I imagine World War III managed to decimate enough of the industrial economies that they inadvertently managed to exceed their carbon reduction targets from the Paris Accords, and then by the time Earth got back on its feet after the development of warp drive and first contact with the Vulcans, electricity was able to be generated cleanly and much more efficiently

@  The Doctor Who : (16 December 2018 - 01:48 PM)

I mean, they have futuristic weather control satellites and everything, I would imagine that global warming is a thing of the past in Trek.

@  unluckiness : (16 December 2018 - 09:39 AM)

How's that unrealistic? Not even the ocean wants it.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (16 December 2018 - 01:35 AM)

The most unrealistic thing (from a U.S. perspective) is that Florida isn't underwater!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (16 December 2018 - 01:35 AM)

I was reminded today of a funny thing about Star Trek:

@  Pennpenn : (15 December 2018 - 09:58 PM)

Whatever they can sell it for?

@  Steevy Maximus : (15 December 2018 - 09:48 PM)

Geez, WTF do those China sellers on eBay need my phone number for?

@  Pennpenn : (15 December 2018 - 09:44 PM)

Does the PotP voyager Starscream's chest stick out so far in combiner torso mode? It's kinda weird how much Elita Infinite's back seems so empty up top but very... protruding lower down.

@  Pennpenn : (15 December 2018 - 01:26 AM)

Trying to fit Elita One's combiner head back into her torso is a pain in the arse (and not just because her torso becomes her arse in combiner torso mode)

@  RichardT1977 : (14 December 2018 - 10:04 PM)

Power corrupts and corruption empowers.

@  Echowarrior : (14 December 2018 - 07:10 PM)

Welcome to real life...at least until enough people get fed up and they break out the guillotines.

@  Pennpenn : (14 December 2018 - 06:58 PM)

It's almost as if the people with the most money have funneled money into making the systems of government and law serve their purposes in retaining their wealth, no matter how harmful, counterintuitive, or just flat out evil they have to be. Huh.

@  Rycochet : (14 December 2018 - 02:49 PM)

https://www.motherjones.com/media/2015/10/mother-jones-vandersloot-melaleuca-lawsuit/

@  Rycochet : (14 December 2018 - 02:45 PM)

Some states have laws against that, but they're in a tiny minority. There are plenty of cases where rich people have gone after journalists and their employers for accurate reporting, lost, but still left their targets saddled with hundreds of thousands ofdollars in legal fees and no hope of recovering anyof the money because a partisan judge has decreed that while they're innocent, they're not innocent enough.

@  Rycochet : (14 December 2018 - 02:43 PM)

The american system is as bad, there are plenty of cases of billionaires or corporations filing libel suits purely to kill reporting or activisim against their activities. SLAPP suits. Strategic Lawsuits against public participation.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 December 2018 - 12:48 PM)

e.g. British libel laws place the burden of proof on the accuser, which is how we wind up with Emirati billionaires suing Western journalists in British courts

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (14 December 2018 - 12:46 PM)

Never visited the UK in my life, but reading about British laws in the news gives me the vibe that British culture inherently protects the wealthy and established.

@  Anonymous X : (14 December 2018 - 12:39 PM)

Sounds a lot better than labour law in the UK. It's bare minimum standards here, you don't get any employment rights as such in the first two years of employment (and the employer can arbitrarily reset the clock). Unions are limited to a few public sector professions as well; in the private sector, there basically aren't any unions.

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:25 PM)

Bonus points if your company has a works council. The employer is required by law to hear the works council prior to giving you your termination. The works council cannot prevent your termination if the employer really insists on going through with it, but if the employer failed to hear the works council, didn't wait for the works council to respond, or failed to tell the works council *all* the relevant details, the termination is legally invalid due to a technicality.

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:23 PM)

The employer has to tell you the reason for your termination if you explicitly ask for it, and if you can prove the reason is factually incorrect, the employer may lose the case.

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:21 PM)

For all its flaws, I really like a lot about our German labor law. Here, if you're under a permanent contract and have been continually employed for over six months, employers can only fire you for reasons that fall into one of three categories defined by law, and the burden of proof is on the employer's side in a potential court case.

@  Paladin : (13 December 2018 - 05:38 PM)

in brightest day or blackest night?

@  Bass X0 : (13 December 2018 - 05:25 PM)

Finally we get a Greenlight toy.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (13 December 2018 - 04:58 PM)

See.. In America they would just fire you for having the wrong color shoes on or some BS reason.

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:13 AM)

And hey, in addition to the clocked extra hours, I earned an additional 50% overtime bonus.

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:12 AM)

This past Saturday, in full expectance of a strike this week, I worked a full extra shift. They assigned me and some of the other volunteers to a totally pointless task, while some ladies were seriously sweeping the floor. When asked how long I was planning to stay, I smiled and said "a full shift!"

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:10 AM)

"You were asking for volunteers, right? I'm staying." - "But we have no more work for you!" - "I don't see how that's *my* problem..."

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:10 AM)

It's possible to use that to troll the employer a little, though... Once they allow voluntary overtime, they cannot backtrack from that. So once you notice you're rapidly running out of work, you just decide to do overtime out of spite.

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:08 AM)

Now if there's *no* strike... people eventually run out of work.

@  Nevermore : (13 December 2018 - 07:07 AM)

Amazon is prepared for strikes... they just hire way too many people for the Christmas season. If there's a strike, they still have enough (albeit inexperienced) workers.

@  Steevy Maximus : (12 December 2018 - 07:49 PM)

Not one bit :p

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (12 December 2018 - 06:46 PM)

@Steevy Did you read TM2's post? "Amazon.de".

@  Paladin : (12 December 2018 - 06:37 PM)

just wait until the European economy collapses up its Brexit-shaped asshole.

@  TM2-Megatron : (12 December 2018 - 06:22 PM)

Probably not a ton of people, no. Although I'd say I order from one European Amazon site once every month or two, myself. Usually UK, but sometimes Germany as well. France and Italy a couple times, too. There are some good Blu-Ray releases that are exclusive to Europe

@  Steevy Maximus : (12 December 2018 - 06:00 PM)

I'm not sure a European strike is going to impact North American customers.

@  TM2-Megatron : (12 December 2018 - 04:13 PM)

Well, somebody must've been working 'cuz I had an order in with Amazon.de that got shipped out the other day

@  Echowarrior : (12 December 2018 - 01:29 PM)

Amazon.


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Oh my god Transformers Animated is so good!


107 replies to this topic

#61 HellCat

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:25 AM

Can a bigger and stronger human level a city block?

 

Animated specifically went out of its way to make the Decepticons be one man armies to even a team of Autobots, including Elite Guard officers. They are living weapons in a way humans never could be, hence why I said '10ft tall with super powers' as my attempt to compare Animated Cybertronian society to a human one. Unless I've missed something, there are no 10ft humans with super powers running around.

 

The timeline presented in the Almanac actually addresses my initial concern since it does underline that there was imbalance in the society but the Decepticons are extremists who have twisted the apparently genuine oppression of their ancestors into a convenient line to excuse to their own greed. We can likely assume the Destrons may well have been giant power houses too but didn't have their splinter group's thirst for conquest. Hence how they were able to be 'oppressed'.

 

I'm more than willing to acknowledge where official sources actually address or explain the things about the setting that left me confused or I felt were lacking.



#62 Copper Bezel

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:32 AM

Can a bigger and stronger human level a city block?

 

Animated specifically went out of its way to make the Decepticons be one man armies to even a team of Autobots, including Elite Guard officers. They are living weapons in a way humans never could be, hence why I said '10ft tall with super powers' as my attempt to compare Animated Cybertronian society to a human one. Unless I've missed something, there are no 10ft humans with super powers running around.

I actually just posted and deleted a reply absolving you of the X-Men interpretation that I felt we'd disabused you of. Clearly this is not the case.

 

They're a small faction separate from Autobot society by the time they're weaponized. I don't ... there's nothing to add to that, it just is. Whatever you are picturing here is entirely incorrect. Regardless of the Almanac, there is no reason to assume X-Men when the show goes out of its way to tell us how babies are made and it's "not like that".


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#63 HellCat

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:34 AM

Differences are one of the key causes of oppression/prejudice. The most notable difference of the Decepticons, by intent, is their size and power. there I could only assume this might be the root of the issue.

 

I'm not sure why this is apparently so offensive to people from the word go. I feel it's a valid flaw in the narrative, hence why I compared it to a similar criticism I had of the species divide in Beast Wars. Yet apparently I've offended various people with this like I invented something entirely from fanon and am pushing it as canon.

 

Last I checked, I don't have a pet snake.



#64 Copper Bezel

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:42 AM

Differences are one of the key causes of oppression/prejudice. The most notable difference of the Decepticons, by intent, is their size and power. there I could only assume this might be the root of the issue.

The move from "can" to "must" is where this logic breaks down, and in this case, all of the evidence that the Decepticons' "difference" was by choice was in the text from the beginning and regardless of any auxiliary media. So yes, this is where your mistake began, and perhaps it was a reasonable hypothesis until it was contradicted within the series, such as when protoforms were introduced and it became clear that there were no genetic accidents leading to special mutants or whatever and no genetic lineages at all, and particularly when we found that Autobot and Decepticon protoforms were the same in the finale.

 

Pressing the continued retrospective validity of your interpretation after it's been debunked is very foolish. It is impossible to square with the complete series even ignoring the Almanac.


Edited by Copper Bezel, 12 November 2017 - 11:42 AM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#65 HellCat

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:47 AM

Then I guess we agree to disagree? I feel I've hit on an unsatisfactory part of Animated's lore and am speculating on it using canon. I'm apparently doing a terrible job at communicating that and worse am pissing people off as they seem to feel instead I'm running with some crack theory that to them comes from a non-hole in their opinion of the show.

 

I'd really rather not piss people off for just trying to speculate about a robot cartoon.



#66 Jim S

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:52 AM

Can a bigger and stronger human level a city block?

 

Animated specifically went out of its way to make the Decepticons be one man armies to even a team of Autobots, including Elite Guard officers. They are living weapons in a way humans never could be, hence why I said '10ft tall with super powers' as my attempt to compare Animated Cybertronian society to a human one. Unless I've missed something, there are no 10ft humans with super powers running around.

 

Animated also consistently shows that 5 or so well-organized non-combatant Autobots are about a match for 1-2 Decepticons. So, yeah, I think it's ENTIRELY possible that the Decepticons COULD be oppressed. We don't even know what percentage of society Decepticons make up. (Not counting guys born on Earth, there are about a hundred canon Autobots and maybe 40 canon Decepticons in Animated, so in the show and ancillary material that's about 30%)

 

That said, I don't think they WERE oppressed. 



#67 Copper Bezel

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:11 PM

Then I guess we agree to disagree?

Why? Why would I agree that you should disagree with me and the text? If you want to be obstinately wrong and insist that the details you noticed in the show are more important than the ones you didn't, I can't stop you, but I do not agee that this is a sensible option. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#68 HellCat

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:26 PM

 

Then I guess we agree to disagree?

Why? Why would I agree that you should disagree with me and the text? If you want to be obstinately wrong and insist that the details you noticed in the show are more important than the ones you didn't, I can't stop you, but I do not agee that this is a sensible option. 

 

Primarily because I feel I have a valid point but one I really don't want to cause anymore stress over by continuing to argue and apparently communicate so poorly people don't seem to get what I'm saying.

 

Not saying I'm right, just that I don't feel any of the responses here have majorly given me reason to change my opinion on this issue. Plus the thread wasn't made specifically for this discussion, hence why I did things like mention the theme song to show I didn't want to drown it in what I'd started.



#69 Copper Bezel

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:35 PM

Not saying I'm right, just that I don't feel any of the responses here have majorly given me reason to change my opinion on this issue.

Then no evidence would suffice, and I can only agree that you are disagreeable. Your reading is unsupportable. Period.

 

Particularly this X-Men biology argument that it depends so fundamentally on, for which, for instance, you offered the evidence of the pack-in comic and completely ignored and failed to address my counterargument of the Starscream clones while I was countering the details of the comic argument. That's an example, but it's representative; you are not engaging with the evidence against your case in the way that others are engaging with your evidence for it. Of course you don't find the responses compelling, because we're not talking about them, we're stuck repeatedly countering the individual points you've selected in support of your argument. 


Edited by Copper Bezel, 12 November 2017 - 12:36 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#70 HellCat

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:12 PM

The comic is a key part of my argument because I can't understand why they'd need to splice Starscream's data into existing Autobots if they could just create new ones. Clearly the Autobots needed a new kind of soldier so why not create brand new flying Autobots and train them directly under the Elite Guard? The fact that they don't to me suggests they can't and the comic almost treats it like trying to splice a human with an animal.



#71 Copper Bezel

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:18 PM

But the Starscream clones. :Shrug:

 

Obviously they opted not to simply create Starscreams. I honestly think it was for convenience of plot and tension and reinforcing the Autobots' unethical practices and experimentation. It's also possible that the protoform mold affects personality or something, or that they wanted Autobot technologies plus flight rather than a pure Decepticon body, or whatnot. 


Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#72 HellCat

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:31 PM

But the Starscream clones. :Shrug:

 

Obviously they opted not to simply create Starscreams. I honestly think it was for convenience of plot and tension and reinforcing the Autobots' unethical practices and experimentation. It's also possible that the protoform mold affects personality or something, or that they wanted Autobot technologies plus flight rather than a pure Decepticon body, or whatnot. 

But that's the point I've been making. That my reading is that Decepticon bodies come with the violent personality and the Autobots literally can't just birth a stable Autobot flyer. They have to take the flight capability from an existing Decepticon and splice it into an existing Autobot.

 

Like if I have angel and gingerbread man cookie cutters, slice the wings off an angel and stick them on the gingerbread man.

 

(if nothing else we are seeing how crap I am at visual metaphors).



#73 Tyranno

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:31 PM

I've fallen out of love with Animated, but honestly, how the Decepticons got kicked off is already explained. Omega Supreme was too much of a big deal for them to handle. Heck, it's pretty clear they were WINNING beforehand.

 

Also, a bunch of the Autobots being jerkasses and Megatron being full of bullhockey are not mutually exclusive concepts.


"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


- Amethyst Schaber, http://neurowonderful.tumblr.com/

#74 HellCat

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:34 PM

Pg9nt.gif



#75 Broadside

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:35 PM

I always read it as "Autobot SPARKS are different to Decepticon ones". For what it's worth.

Edited by Broadside, 12 November 2017 - 01:36 PM.

unknown.png


#76 Tyranno

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:37 PM

That being said, Hellcat is right, the comic makes it pretty explicit only Decepticons are "coded" to be able to fly from the get go.


"Disabled people donít have special needs. We have very reasonable human needs. Our needs include freedom from abuse, violence, and mistreatment, the right to autonomy and self-direction, the right to represent ourselves, equal opportunity for education and employment, the right to accommodation, and societal inclusion and acceptance.

The need for accommodation isnít a ďspecial needĒ. Itís a basic human right. Itís a leveling of the playing field that allows us the same opportunities and chances as non-disabled people."


- Amethyst Schaber, http://neurowonderful.tumblr.com/

#77 Blot

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:42 PM

Pg9nt.gif

"Making the Allspark Almanac more than just a book of character models was a mistake" - Hayao Miyazaki



#78 HellCat

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:03 PM

maxresdefault.jpg



#79 Copper Bezel

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:02 PM

That being said, Hellcat is right, the comic makes it pretty explicit only Decepticons are "coded" to be able to fly from the get go.

 If that was HellCat's argument, it would have been a very short exchange.

 

But that's the point I've been making. That my reading is that Decepticon bodies come with the violent personality and the Autobots literally can't just birth a stable Autobot flyer. They have to take the flight capability from an existing Decepticon and splice it into an existing Autobot.

If the Autobots created fully-formed Decepticons to use as soldiers and then they rebelled, the Autobots would hardly need Starscream to access the technology to do so again. That means in addition to it being impossible that Autobots created Decepticons by accident, it is also impossible that they created them on purpose. Therefore, the Autobots did not create the Decepticons, at least as they now appear. Starscream's code includes technologies Autobots don't have, therefore he was molded after the war started, therefore it's a multigenerational conflict. There's no getting around the not-X-Men of it, the Decepticons are a self-made faction with their own technology who look the way they do by choice.


Edited by Copper Bezel, 12 November 2017 - 03:11 PM.

Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
 
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?

 


#80 Jim S

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:24 PM

Another factor is that we've got at least two confirmed and two more implied cases of Autobots defecting to the Decepticons. (Swindle and Lockdown.)



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