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@  PlutoniumBoss : (13 August 2020 - 08:11 PM)

The ninjas will go away, it will be fine.

@  Paladin : (13 August 2020 - 08:02 PM)

listen; i'm sure there were very fine ninjas on both sides.

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 August 2020 - 07:50 PM)

My thoughts and prayers go out to the ninjas.

@  Cybersnark : (13 August 2020 - 06:36 PM)

Can we just let them have him?

@  Bass X0 : (13 August 2020 - 06:18 PM)

The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?

@  Otaku : (13 August 2020 - 03:08 PM)

At first, I obviously thought I was correct.  Then I thought perhaps the spelling had changed for some reason.  Copyright/trademark law is weird, ya know?  Now I just accept I goofed. XD

@  Otaku : (13 August 2020 - 03:07 PM)

See, that one directly applies to me.  Apparently, I'd been misreading and mispronouncing it wrong for over 30 years... and I still slip and do it the wrong way much of the time.

@  Paladin : (13 August 2020 - 07:37 AM)

for the Internet age its the "Berenstain" Effect.

@  Bass X0 : (12 August 2020 - 01:49 PM)

Can you root for what The Rock is cooking!?

@  -LittleAutob... : (12 August 2020 - 10:35 AM)

sOmEoNe NoTiCeD-

@  wonko the sane? : (12 August 2020 - 07:37 AM)

I am the only one rooting for the rock these days?

@  Maximus Ambus : (12 August 2020 - 12:37 AM)

Sour grapes for the next decade until Apophis hits.

@  Hg Dragon : (11 August 2020 - 11:26 PM)

Thank yoo for vatching hydroolic pthress chan-nel.

@  Hg Dragon : (11 August 2020 - 11:19 PM)

Hey, do you have any grapes?

@  Otaku : (11 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

I dunno... it sounds kind of quackers to me.

@  -LittleAutob... : (11 August 2020 - 05:17 PM)

That would be nice....

@  TheMightyMol... : (11 August 2020 - 04:36 PM)

I wish I could just sit by a pond and watch ducks for a while.

@  Maximus Ambus : (11 August 2020 - 03:52 AM)

Others say Joe sat down at this pond next to these ducks but really there's just no place in this world for an old man and his ducks.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:48 PM)

Even worse when I can produce those verifiable facts at a later point, and then the other person simply claims the argument was the other way round (as in, I was actually arguing their position and vice versa).

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:47 PM)

I can argue with people about my versus their memory of events when verifiable facts are not readily available, though, and I get really annoyed when I'm capable of presenting a precise, step-by-step summary with multiple key points that can be used for future verification, and the other person just goes "nope, wrong" without going into detail.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:45 PM)

I forget things, and I misremember things. But when presented with verifiable facts, my reaction is more like "Huh, could have sworn it was like that", not "this reality is not my own".

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:43 PM)

I have an extremely good memory (which I have proven time and again), and even I can be mistaken.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 August 2020 - 06:40 PM)

Might be worth pointing out that it only became "Mandela Effect" and not just "I remembered this wrong" when a conspiracy theorist insisted it was proof of alternate timelines.

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

Incorrectly remembering Nelson Mandela's fate may be uniquely American... but is it really that strange to get South African political history wrong when you're no where near South Africa?

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

I always assumed the Mandela Effect was a "human thing", not an American thing.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 August 2020 - 02:03 PM)

Then there are people who outright manufacture memories for whatever reason.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (10 August 2020 - 01:13 PM)

The human brain is so flaky that it is extremely unlikely that a given person does NOT have any false memories.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:05 PM)

Perhaps it's simple word association the movie Sinbad and then our minds apply the same memories to a man named Sinbad.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:04 PM)

The Mandela Effect is the same as people remembering Sinbad in a movie where he played a genie... Of which he never did.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:36 AM)

People that believe Mandela Effect things would rather come up with any number of reasons as to why their version doesn't have any actual evidence(like alternate timelines collapsing into our own) than just admit they remembered something wrong

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Sort of. It's more that when presented with a verifiable fact, they double down because it's what they believe instead of changing their minds

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

"I could have sworn that ______."

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

I'm not arguing with either of those two statements, but they're not really connected. Mandela Effect is, to oversimplify, people being widely mistaken about what they think *is* a verifiable fact. Nothing to do with opinions.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 08:52 AM)

Pretty sure the Mandela Effect in general is an American thing. Opinion > Verifiable Facts is sadly a pretty American thing

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:27 AM)

Ask these people how Apartheid ended according to their recollection, and I'm sure they'll draw a blank.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:25 AM)

You got two black anti-Apartheid activists who were imprisoned by the oppressive regime. One died, the other was Nelson Mandela. It's not a far stretch that Americans who don't know many details about the history of other countries would mix up the two.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:24 AM)

My own theory is that these people are simply mixing up Nelson Mandela and Steve Biko, another South African anti-Apartheid activist, who did indeed die in police custody in 1977. There was an Oscar-nominated movie about his life starring Denzel Washington that came out in 1987, the same time frame these people claim remembering Mandela dying.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:17 AM)

I met a few people from South Africa, and they either never heard of the phenomenon at all, or only know of it from the internet. Apparently, it's completely unknown in South Africa, and it might even be entirely limited to the United States.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:16 AM)

So does anyone remember the "Mandela Effect"? I'm talking specifically about the original case where many people vividly remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980s.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (10 August 2020 - 03:16 AM)

Crisis of Corona.

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 06:16 PM)

Which crisis crossover are we on now? I lost track.

@  Rycochet : (09 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

Much of the past decade has been the part of the comic series where less than stellar authors have driven the series into the ground and the editors are getting ready to either do a big multi issue crossover, leading to a reboot.

@  Bass X0 : (09 August 2020 - 02:28 PM)

At this point I've just decided to consider 2020 "not canon."

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 02:18 PM)

'member Pepperidge Farm?

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 August 2020 - 02:10 PM)

Before the 'member berries there was Pepperidge farm. Pepperidge farm remembers.

@  OverDrive73 : (09 August 2020 - 12:21 PM)

>>>Shameless Plug<<< FYI. posted the last part of Quest for Tires in Allspark Pictures

@  SG Roadbuster : (08 August 2020 - 01:53 PM)

@Nevermore yes.

@  Nevermore : (08 August 2020 - 09:11 AM)

Is $30 a good deal for Subscription Service Breakdown?

@  Trpodeca : (08 August 2020 - 06:24 AM)

Oh dear God no. Twitter has changed it's default layout to the terrible new one. Why waste so much space on the left?

@  Steevy Maximus : (07 August 2020 - 08:28 PM)

@Bass X0, yeah, the Joe comic got REALLY solid in the upper 20s to the Cobra Civil War. It's interesting to see how well the Joe comic has aged relative to the cartoon. Where as I feel the opposite is true of Transformers


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Robotech REFUSES to die on March 14, 2021

Robotech Battletech Tatsunoku

458 replies to this topic

#1 Steevy Maximus

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 11:43 AM

So, this will get lengthy so might want to pull up a chair:

Harmony Gold has a LONG history being rather litigious with its "ownership" of the Robotech brand and the 3 anime series that compose it.  Well, that might be changing....

 

Long story short:

HG filed suit against Piranha Games (Mechwarrior Online) , Catalyst Game Labs (Battletech RPG core license), Harebrained Schemes (Battletech PC game, licensed from CGL), and Jordan Weisman (founder/owner of HBS, involved in original case between Harmony Gold and FASA) over infringements on its rights to the Macross mechanic concepts which formed the foundation for early Battletech designs.  In this instance, they are arguing on infringement caused by the "Reseen" redesigns of the original Japanese mecha designs.  And for some reason, have NOW started going after designs like Atlus which was created by FASA themselves (comparing the Atlus to the Armored Valkyrie is REALLY reaching), in addition to several other designs originating from FASA, like the Hunchback.  They did this several weeks ago.

Leonard French's read on the docket:

 

However, just last week, an Arbitration was awarded detailing the exact situation between Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko concerning Robotech and the original series.  It's a doozy:

 

AND the short (too late) version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoMs6iYXyng&t=302s

 

So...to sum up...on March 14, 2021, Harmony Gold's rights to Robotech, Macross and everything else from Tatsunoko reverts back to the Japanese company, who has full authority to do whatever they want, it seems.  Until then, HG retain full rights to exploit all assets and materials they have, EXCLUDING 41 graphic designs from Big West.  And reportedly, among those 41 designs are mecha designs Harmony Gold are filing infringement on behalf of in the Battletech case.

 

Wow, what a mess of a rights case, but it DOES seems that Harmony Gold's grasp on Macross in the US might finally be coming to an end.  I think?  Depending on how an appeal might go?



#2 Paladin

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 11:51 AM

This could be why push has resumed for a live-action Robotech movie.

 

https://www.forbes.c...n/#4ed372111109

 

 

if that goes through, I can imagine it will let Harmony Gold keep their clutches on the license even longer.


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#3 Jet

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 12:56 PM

Somewhere, Jetfire is throwing a party.


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#4 Telly

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 01:19 PM

i can imagine tatsunoko or big west or whoever are anxious to get the license back. theres an entire COUNTRY (does HG's deal cover canada as well?) of fans wanting new merch and shows that HG just isnt doing anything about. well, aside from a comic series every few years (that doesnt last) and a lawsuit every few months.

 

march 15th 2021: the day we are FLOODED with macross stuff lol or at least we will start hearing announcements of macross stuff FINALLY coming here without having to import


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#5 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 01:28 PM


I like Robotech dearly and have zero interest in "Macross" as a non-Robotech thing and I still think it's well past time for Harmony Gold to die. They haven't shown any ability to use the property well since the actual original Robotech Toon ended 30+ years ago.

ZacWilliam, and if I can get new/better Mospeda stuff someday that I can pretend is part of Robotech, I'll take it.
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#6 Echowarrior

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 01:49 PM

...yeah, I'll celebrate on March 15, 2021. Still, I think we can safely say that Harmony Gold bit off far more than it could chew.


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#7 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 03:23 PM

Started a separate discussion on this up in the "Dungeons & Dragons & other things" thread up in Fun & Games. As part of it, I noted HBS' legal response. 

 

Some of the HBS designs that HG said infringed are clearly unrelated. Nutshell: the designs they identified as being derivative were not; rather, they fingered a provably FASA-original design (FASA being the company that first created Battletech) and a pair of designs that were derivative of Sunrise-owned mecha rather than Macross mecha. This, and other issues, gives HBS firm ground for fighting back. 



#8 NovaSaber

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 04:38 PM

Does it all revert or only the Big West series? A lot of what's being said doesn't seem to apply to MOSPEADA.

Unlike Macross and Southern Cross, MOSPEADA was fully owned by Tatsunoko, and thus "Tatsunoko never even had the right to license it the way Harmony Gold thinks it did" doesn't apply.



#9 tec

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 07:54 PM

Good riddance theres a whole back log of great Macross goodies that needs a state side release


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#10 Powered Convoy

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 10:11 PM

If this is true, it's about time and literally should have come about 20 years ago (from 2017).

So much potential for Macross outside of Japan. So much squandered after all these years.

I will fully celebrate.

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#11 Maruten

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 10:45 PM

I can't see how this would make Robotech much more "dead" than it already is. Even if they lose their rights to the source material, I'm sure they'll continue to drag some ailing mockery of Robotech around behind them. They long ago started trying to put some distance between their new content and the contentious elements of the OSM; I'm sure they have enough US-original characters at their disposal from Sentinels, McKinney etc to keep trying to stay afloat in some sad capacity. I mean, nobody else has any claim on the Robotech brand, right? Its value with the Macross bits stripped out is negligible obviously, but that's not a significant dip from where it is now. 

 

This is all assuming there isn't some agreement reached or new twist before 2021. HG will move mountains to keep some grip on this stuff, because without it they're nothing. Does Harmony Gold have the clout to fix this? Quite probably not, sure. Maybe they can con Sony into being their muscle if this live action movie is something that they're seriously keen on.

 

I'd love to see everything Macross available worldwide, not necessarily because I personally need that in my life, but countless people are gagging for it, and moreover HG are just bastards for obstructing everything (for absolutely no legitimate reason). But I also want Robotech to survive. I'd really like to see HG just sell Robotech to somebody nicer and smarter, and then disappear in a puff of smoke. If they love Robotech, they should set it free. Maybe they can rehome it with somebody who's friendly with Tatsunoko etc. 

 

At any rate, 2021 is a long way off and I sincerely doubt this story is already over. 


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#12 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 01:54 AM

HG will move mountains to keep some grip on this stuff, because without it they're nothing.


Aren't they normally a real estate company anyway?

#13 unluckiness

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 03:04 AM

So that means they can literally move(legal ownership of) mountains

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#14 GodSentinelOmega

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 03:51 AM

I really hope that this turns out, because HG deserves to have the rights ripped away from them.

I loved the original Robotech, even though as a kid the only three Robotech things i ever saw were Codename: Robotech (a sortof movie length Glovals report), Robotech the Movie (that did/rewrite/hackjob of Megazone 23), and Robotech II:The Sentinels (the movie of the only episodes of that series they ever got to make). It wasn't til years later when i finally got the whole thing on DVD that i saw the whole story, the three shows and why the mecha designs changed so much. I kinda liked Shadow Chronicles and was really hoping that this might have been the start of something new. A final adventure to round of the series.

But no. That, the fact the HG cannot bear to have even the tiniest smidgen of Macross spread with going mental, apart from a few exceptions. Their penchant for sueing everything in sight for infringement, constant rerererererere-rereleases of the old shows. Or even unreleased (outside of japan) clip show movies like Love Live Alive.

I think for final nail in their coffin for me, after the insanity of their lawsuit about the SDCC Joe/Transformers Jetfire, was their Kickstarter for a Robotech series. Which piqued my interest until it was clear that it would be just a side story going back in the timeline. Not something to push the story further forward.

Would i like Robotech as a franchise to survive? Absolutely! Just drag it out of the weasly claws of the company that seems to not care about it beyond using it to sue everyone and the Kitchen sink.

Lets have Macross finally allowed out into the world AND have somebody who cares do something good with Robotech.

But yeah, 2021 as a long way off and a lot can happen. I have my fingers crossed.

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#15 Powered Convoy

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 09:25 AM

I wouldn't have a problem if they weren't the ones that put a stop to practically anything Macross being released in the US since Macross Plus.

 

I remember when they were threatening collectors who were buying Bandai and Yamato Valkyries and wanted them to buy their Toynami Veritechs.  Threatening customers stating that the people purchasing them needed to send the Bandai or Yamato Valkyries to Harmony Gold because they were buying unlicensed and unsanctioned merchandise.


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#16 000

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 12:07 PM

They tried to pull that shit with their SDCC Jetfire lawsuit too, seeking to confiscate all stock including purchased pieces. HG and its lawyers can get hugged with a broken bottle.

#17 Ryougabot

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 02:17 PM


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#18 D Buster Prime

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:51 PM

I don't understand all the hate for Harmony Gold regarding Jetfire. They paid for the exclusive rights to something, and fought to maintain it.

Hasbro would do the same thing if Mattel released action figures that looked like Optimus Prime.

It's just a part of the system/game.

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#19 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 12:54 AM

I don't understand all the hate for Harmony Gold regarding Jetfire. They paid for the exclusive rights to something, and fought to maintain it.

Hasbro would do the same thing if Mattel released action figures that looked like Optimus Prime.

It's just a part of the system/game.

It's part of the larger history with Harmony Gold. 

 

If they even think that someone is infringing on their intellectual property, they send out the lawyers. 

 

It's straight-up fatigue at this point. 



#20 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 02:03 AM

Yeah, if HG had been good stewards of the property people would be inclined to let the Jetfire lawsuit by I would think.

Instead HG has sat on the property doing very little with it for 30 years, held on to and used their rights in ways that seem excessive and beyond the original scope and intention, prevented big swaths of popular material from Japan from getting any sort of US release, and been lawsuit happy in the extreme suing everyone from fans to other companies for any imagined infringement in quite a few very questionable cases. They've created a very negative impression with most fans of their property. In some ways they're almost the IP owner equivalent of a patent troll. And thus they get very little slack.

ZacWilliam, it's been awhile since I read about it but I think they're mostly a real estate company right? The Robotech rights are just something they jealously clutch and try to squeeze some cash from on the side of their actual business with as little output as possible?

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 23 August 2017 - 02:24 AM.

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