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@  Otaku : (23 October 2018 - 09:12 AM)

Now, I'm not saying that Cybertronians ought to have human life-spans, just that "millions of years" is too long.  Though I suppose it makes the "Oh, I suddenly remembered [plot point]!" moments credible because where do you store all the memories in an easily accessed form?  If you do remember even most things clearly... might that not be maddening?

@  Otaku : (23 October 2018 - 09:09 AM)

The "millions of years old" thing is probably the most alien aspect of Cybertronians.  It pushes my suspension of disbelief for anything remotely human to live that long and still be sane, or maybe even functional.  I think of how aging has affected my own view and sure, some of it is biological maturation, but a lot of it is experience.

@  wonko the sane? : (23 October 2018 - 07:11 AM)

But they don't really have a childhood either. They go online and all maturation is literally job experience.

@  Shrug : (23 October 2018 - 06:47 AM)

Well, they're practically immortal. That kind of lifespan doesn't exactly push growing up.

@  TheMightyMol... : (23 October 2018 - 04:00 AM)

They can't handle physical scale, did you think temporal scale would fare any better?

@  Pennpenn : (23 October 2018 - 03:44 AM)

Maybe it's that they're functionally intelligent, but don't ever really mature much psychologically. That and presumably the original writers gave as much of a shit about deep time as they did about space geometry.

@  Whirl Maximus : (23 October 2018 - 02:03 AM)

I'm mixed about the millions of years thing, it's somewhat at odds when transformers are humanized as they often are.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 October 2018 - 11:59 PM)

Are any of the Transformers terribly bright, really? This is a spacefaring civilization that's millions of years old that seem to be fighting a perpetual war for no particular reason. Transformers are stupider than humans

@  wonko the sane? : (22 October 2018 - 08:31 PM)

Depends on the machine. Are you recruiting them, or MAKING them?

@  Cybersnark : (22 October 2018 - 08:30 PM)

... And not terribly bright.

@  wonko the sane? : (22 October 2018 - 07:51 PM)

Makes sense for robot soldiers: you would want something fast, low profile, but lots of power.

@  Waspinator : (22 October 2018 - 06:31 PM)

If we go by the Prime cartoon, sports cars apparently ARE the expendable troop of choice.

@  TheMightyMol... : (22 October 2018 - 04:29 PM)

Just fold 'em into a box and slap some wheels on it, they'll figure it out.

@  Pennpenn : (22 October 2018 - 01:57 AM)

Given that by the time we're up to in the story Functionalism had been dead for millions of years and many of the people around were made during and for the war, it's probably more likely that "sports car shaped thing" was an easy to make alt mode for expendable troops.

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 09:52 PM)

maybe there's underground demolition derbies too

@  Locoman : (21 October 2018 - 09:25 PM)

Every single sports car was one of those two jobs? Considering how many there seem to be....

@  RichardT1977 : (21 October 2018 - 07:34 PM)

Athletic Entertainment

@  TheMightyMol... : (21 October 2018 - 03:32 PM)

It's mentioned in one issue that Bumblebee was a courier. The only other fast cars I can remember seeing in Functionist times were Blur and a couple of Stunticons, as racers.

@  SG Roadbuster : (21 October 2018 - 12:14 PM)

i figured the sports cars were either racers or couriers.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 12:13 PM)

Upper Class. They're clearly not made for manual labor.

@  Locoman : (21 October 2018 - 12:09 PM)

Functionism only really makes sense for certain alternate modes like mining or construction equipment; where do things like sports cars fit in?

@  Xellos : (21 October 2018 - 11:51 AM)

At least in the movies they can switch to a (similar) alt mode at will, it seems. Especially if they want to sell more toys per movie.

@  wonko the sane? : (21 October 2018 - 10:44 AM)

They are a race of adaptive machines. Maybe they were expected to change themselves to fit the role?

@  RichardT1977 : (21 October 2018 - 10:06 AM)

IDW-verse discrimination still made more sense than the backstory in TF: Exodus, where everyone's caste was assigned seemingly at random with no regard for their aptitudes (altmode or otherwise)

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 07:55 AM)

Lost Light is good too, so far.

@  MEDdMI : (21 October 2018 - 07:54 AM)

I'm not terribly into Transformers in general, but I did mostly enjoy the More Than Meets The Eye series.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 05:11 AM)

Which has been in the state constitution since 1946, but was never actually executed according to documents, and is currently not in effect because the German federal constitution, which takes priority over state constitution, has banned the death penalty back in 1949.

@  Nevermore : (21 October 2018 - 05:09 AM)

Huh. So next weekend, when the German state of Hesse will have its state election, there will also be a ballot about changing the state constitution... and one of the proposed changes will be abolishing the death penalty.

@  Waspinator : (21 October 2018 - 03:44 AM)

I really need to read those comics

@  Pennpenn : (21 October 2018 - 03:28 AM)

Up to and including the fact that certain alternate modes could end up being classified as "surplus to requirements" and systematically murdered.

@  Pennpenn : (21 October 2018 - 03:26 AM)

And in IDW comics where it is/was literally a form of apartheid where your alternate mode pretty much dictated how you were treated by society, what jobs you could pursue, pretty much everything.

@  Waspinator : (21 October 2018 - 02:24 AM)

We do get hints of that from time to time in Transformers, with stuff like some jets acting smug towards cars and whatnot.

@  RichardT1977 : (20 October 2018 - 08:10 PM)

"No shotgun of Mine is going to marry a rocket launcher" sounds like something that Targetmasters (or WFC Siege Micromasters) might say...

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 08:06 PM)

The characters are actually kinda nice. Sure a bunch of them are from New Jersey, but you get a few aliens too.. But if you do that, you might want to go digital delux verisons.

@  Xellos : (20 October 2018 - 06:38 PM)

My only issue is that the aside from Fox, the looks of the characters are kinda bland. If anything, I'll at least get it on Black Friday, as they almost always have deals on the toys to life stuff.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 06:07 PM)

Well I can tell you, if you are going physical version because you want the toys. The Switch version has the best Ship mount as you just slide the joycons into it. The PS4 ship mount is wired. The game itself is very good in my opionion. In some ways it starts to turn into an RTS without being an RTS. You've got to start focus on keeping your planets from being taken back over. It has a LOT to do. It does have some repitive missions, because well, trying to let you level up all pilots and ships and such. The switch version -ALSO- has starfox only missions and the characters are incorporated into the story.

@  Xellos : (20 October 2018 - 06:03 PM)

How is Starlink anyways? Been thinking of getting the Switch version for StarFox, which is quite unusal for me, as I almost always pick the PS4 versions (favorite controller and I already have so many Trophys on it).

@  Waspinator : (20 October 2018 - 05:42 PM)

No shotgun of mine is going to marry a rocket launcher!

@  TheMightyMol... : (20 October 2018 - 05:22 PM)

Should they be allowed to marry outside of their own caliber?

@  Waspinator : (20 October 2018 - 05:18 PM)

I'm conflicted on the subject of marriage rights for shotguns.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 03:24 PM)

You say, "Damn it, what do you think this is, a shotgun wedding?"

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 03:23 PM)

What do you do if someone wants to bring their concealed-carry to your American wedding?

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (20 October 2018 - 01:58 PM)

Benbot, I was streaming the PS4 version of Starlink

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 01:25 PM)

Ergo their reporting will have its own slant on the facts as they choose, not the most neutral way possible.

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (20 October 2018 - 01:24 PM)

I find it sad to realize that the prestigious New York Times which I trusted a lot as a kid in fact has its own editorial agenda.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:20 PM)

The end result is NOT that stupid bullshit gets equal coverage as reasonable arguments. That would be problematic in itself (the "false balance" bias), but the provlem is that the controversial stupid bullshit gets MORE coverage than the reasonable arguments.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:17 PM)

The media doesn't want to miss the opportunity to report on a controversy, and as a consequence makes sure that the controversial statements reach an audience.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:17 PM)

Because they realized that saying controversial shit is guaranteed to get coverage.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:16 PM)

It's the same here in Germany. Our right-wing moron party is still a political minority, yet they succeed in driving the topics the media keeps reporting.

@  Nevermore : (20 October 2018 - 01:15 PM)

The main problem was that Trump was banking on controversy, and the media was reporting controversy because it gave them ratings.


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Robotech DIES on March 14, 2021

Robotech Battletech Tatsunoku

216 replies to this topic

#1 Steevy Maximus

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 11:43 AM

So, this will get lengthy so might want to pull up a chair:

Harmony Gold has a LONG history being rather litigious with its "ownership" of the Robotech brand and the 3 anime series that compose it.  Well, that might be changing....

 

Long story short:

HG filed suit against Piranha Games (Mechwarrior Online) , Catalyst Game Labs (Battletech RPG core license), Harebrained Schemes (Battletech PC game, licensed from CGL), and Jordan Weisman (founder/owner of HBS, involved in original case between Harmony Gold and FASA) over infringements on its rights to the Macross mechanic concepts which formed the foundation for early Battletech designs.  In this instance, they are arguing on infringement caused by the "Reseen" redesigns of the original Japanese mecha designs.  And for some reason, have NOW started going after designs like Atlus which was created by FASA themselves (comparing the Atlus to the Armored Valkyrie is REALLY reaching), in addition to several other designs originating from FASA, like the Hunchback.  They did this several weeks ago.

Leonard French's read on the docket:

 

However, just last week, an Arbitration was awarded detailing the exact situation between Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko concerning Robotech and the original series.  It's a doozy:

 

AND the short (too late) version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoMs6iYXyng&t=302s

 

So...to sum up...on March 14, 2021, Harmony Gold's rights to Robotech, Macross and everything else from Tatsunoko reverts back to the Japanese company, who has full authority to do whatever they want, it seems.  Until then, HG retain full rights to exploit all assets and materials they have, EXCLUDING 41 graphic designs from Big West.  And reportedly, among those 41 designs are mecha designs Harmony Gold are filing infringement on behalf of in the Battletech case.

 

Wow, what a mess of a rights case, but it DOES seems that Harmony Gold's grasp on Macross in the US might finally be coming to an end.  I think?  Depending on how an appeal might go?



#2 Paladin

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 11:51 AM

This could be why push has resumed for a live-action Robotech movie.

 

https://www.forbes.c...n/#4ed372111109

 

 

if that goes through, I can imagine it will let Harmony Gold keep their clutches on the license even longer.


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#3 Lancer

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 12:56 PM

Somewhere, Jetfire is throwing a party.



#4 Telly

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 01:19 PM

i can imagine tatsunoko or big west or whoever are anxious to get the license back. theres an entire COUNTRY (does HG's deal cover canada as well?) of fans wanting new merch and shows that HG just isnt doing anything about. well, aside from a comic series every few years (that doesnt last) and a lawsuit every few months.

 

march 15th 2021: the day we are FLOODED with macross stuff lol or at least we will start hearing announcements of macross stuff FINALLY coming here without having to import


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#5 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 01:28 PM


I like Robotech dearly and have zero interest in "Macross" as a non-Robotech thing and I still think it's well past time for Harmony Gold to die. They haven't shown any ability to use the property well since the actual original Robotech Toon ended 30+ years ago.

ZacWilliam, and if I can get new/better Mospeda stuff someday that I can pretend is part of Robotech, I'll take it.
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#6 Echowarrior

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 01:49 PM

...yeah, I'll celebrate on March 15, 2021. Still, I think we can safely say that Harmony Gold bit off far more than it could chew.


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#7 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 03:23 PM

Started a separate discussion on this up in the "Dungeons & Dragons & other things" thread up in Fun & Games. As part of it, I noted HBS' legal response. 

 

Some of the HBS designs that HG said infringed are clearly unrelated. Nutshell: the designs they identified as being derivative were not; rather, they fingered a provably FASA-original design (FASA being the company that first created Battletech) and a pair of designs that were derivative of Sunrise-owned mecha rather than Macross mecha. This, and other issues, gives HBS firm ground for fighting back. 



#8 NovaSaber

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 04:38 PM

Does it all revert or only the Big West series? A lot of what's being said doesn't seem to apply to MOSPEADA.

Unlike Macross and Southern Cross, MOSPEADA was fully owned by Tatsunoko, and thus "Tatsunoko never even had the right to license it the way Harmony Gold thinks it did" doesn't apply.



#9 tec

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 07:54 PM

Good riddance theres a whole back log of great Macross goodies that needs a state side release


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#10 Powered Convoy

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 10:11 PM

If this is true, it's about time and literally should have come about 20 years ago (from 2017).

So much potential for Macross outside of Japan. So much squandered after all these years.

I will fully celebrate.


#11 Maruten

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 10:45 PM

I can't see how this would make Robotech much more "dead" than it already is. Even if they lose their rights to the source material, I'm sure they'll continue to drag some ailing mockery of Robotech around behind them. They long ago started trying to put some distance between their new content and the contentious elements of the OSM; I'm sure they have enough US-original characters at their disposal from Sentinels, McKinney etc to keep trying to stay afloat in some sad capacity. I mean, nobody else has any claim on the Robotech brand, right? Its value with the Macross bits stripped out is negligible obviously, but that's not a significant dip from where it is now. 

 

This is all assuming there isn't some agreement reached or new twist before 2021. HG will move mountains to keep some grip on this stuff, because without it they're nothing. Does Harmony Gold have the clout to fix this? Quite probably not, sure. Maybe they can con Sony into being their muscle if this live action movie is something that they're seriously keen on.

 

I'd love to see everything Macross available worldwide, not necessarily because I personally need that in my life, but countless people are gagging for it, and moreover HG are just bastards for obstructing everything (for absolutely no legitimate reason). But I also want Robotech to survive. I'd really like to see HG just sell Robotech to somebody nicer and smarter, and then disappear in a puff of smoke. If they love Robotech, they should set it free. Maybe they can rehome it with somebody who's friendly with Tatsunoko etc. 

 

At any rate, 2021 is a long way off and I sincerely doubt this story is already over. 


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#12 NotVeryKnightly

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 01:54 AM

HG will move mountains to keep some grip on this stuff, because without it they're nothing.


Aren't they normally a real estate company anyway?

#13 unluckiness

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 03:04 AM

So that means they can literally move(legal ownership of) mountains

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#14 GodSentinelOmega

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 03:51 AM

I really hope that this turns out, because HG deserves to have the rights ripped away from them.

I loved the original Robotech, even though as a kid the only three Robotech things i ever saw were Codename: Robotech (a sortof movie length Glovals report), Robotech the Movie (that did/rewrite/hackjob of Megazone 23), and Robotech II:The Sentinels (the movie of the only episodes of that series they ever got to make). It wasn't til years later when i finally got the whole thing on DVD that i saw the whole story, the three shows and why the mecha designs changed so much. I kinda liked Shadow Chronicles and was really hoping that this might have been the start of something new. A final adventure to round of the series.

But no. That, the fact the HG cannot bear to have even the tiniest smidgen of Macross spread with going mental, apart from a few exceptions. Their penchant for sueing everything in sight for infringement, constant rerererererere-rereleases of the old shows. Or even unreleased (outside of japan) clip show movies like Love Live Alive.

I think for final nail in their coffin for me, after the insanity of their lawsuit about the SDCC Joe/Transformers Jetfire, was their Kickstarter for a Robotech series. Which piqued my interest until it was clear that it would be just a side story going back in the timeline. Not something to push the story further forward.

Would i like Robotech as a franchise to survive? Absolutely! Just drag it out of the weasly claws of the company that seems to not care about it beyond using it to sue everyone and the Kitchen sink.

Lets have Macross finally allowed out into the world AND have somebody who cares do something good with Robotech.

But yeah, 2021 as a long way off and a lot can happen. I have my fingers crossed.

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#15 Powered Convoy

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 09:25 AM

I wouldn't have a problem if they weren't the ones that put a stop to practically anything Macross being released in the US since Macross Plus.

 

I remember when they were threatening collectors who were buying Bandai and Yamato Valkyries and wanted them to buy their Toynami Veritechs.  Threatening customers stating that the people purchasing them needed to send the Bandai or Yamato Valkyries to Harmony Gold because they were buying unlicensed and unsanctioned merchandise.




#16 Aberration

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 12:07 PM

They tried to pull that shit with their SDCC Jetfire lawsuit too, seeking to confiscate all stock including purchased pieces. HG and its lawyers can get hugged with a broken bottle.

#17 Ryougabot

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 02:17 PM


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#18 D Buster Prime

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:51 PM

I don't understand all the hate for Harmony Gold regarding Jetfire. They paid for the exclusive rights to something, and fought to maintain it.

Hasbro would do the same thing if Mattel released action figures that looked like Optimus Prime.

It's just a part of the system/game.

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#19 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 12:54 AM

I don't understand all the hate for Harmony Gold regarding Jetfire. They paid for the exclusive rights to something, and fought to maintain it.

Hasbro would do the same thing if Mattel released action figures that looked like Optimus Prime.

It's just a part of the system/game.

It's part of the larger history with Harmony Gold. 

 

If they even think that someone is infringing on their intellectual property, they send out the lawyers. 

 

It's straight-up fatigue at this point. 



#20 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 02:03 AM

Yeah, if HG had been good stewards of the property people would be inclined to let the Jetfire lawsuit by I would think.

Instead HG has sat on the property doing very little with it for 30 years, held on to and used their rights in ways that seem excessive and beyond the original scope and intention, prevented big swaths of popular material from Japan from getting any sort of US release, and been lawsuit happy in the extreme suing everyone from fans to other companies for any imagined infringement in quite a few very questionable cases. They've created a very negative impression with most fans of their property. In some ways they're almost the IP owner equivalent of a patent troll. And thus they get very little slack.

ZacWilliam, it's been awhile since I read about it but I think they're mostly a real estate company right? The Robotech rights are just something they jealously clutch and try to squeeze some cash from on the side of their actual business with as little output as possible?

Edited by ZacWilliam1, 23 August 2017 - 02:24 AM.

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