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@  Sabrblade : (13 August 2020 - 10:31 PM)

Turns out the President set the whole thing up as a publicity stunt. Very rude.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (13 August 2020 - 08:11 PM)

The ninjas will go away, it will be fine.

@  Paladin : (13 August 2020 - 08:02 PM)

listen; i'm sure there were very fine ninjas on both sides.

@  TheMightyMol... : (13 August 2020 - 07:50 PM)

My thoughts and prayers go out to the ninjas.

@  Cybersnark : (13 August 2020 - 06:36 PM)

Can we just let them have him?

@  Bass X0 : (13 August 2020 - 06:18 PM)

The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?

@  Otaku : (13 August 2020 - 03:08 PM)

At first, I obviously thought I was correct.  Then I thought perhaps the spelling had changed for some reason.  Copyright/trademark law is weird, ya know?  Now I just accept I goofed. XD

@  Otaku : (13 August 2020 - 03:07 PM)

See, that one directly applies to me.  Apparently, I'd been misreading and mispronouncing it wrong for over 30 years... and I still slip and do it the wrong way much of the time.

@  Paladin : (13 August 2020 - 07:37 AM)

for the Internet age its the "Berenstain" Effect.

@  Bass X0 : (12 August 2020 - 01:49 PM)

Can you root for what The Rock is cooking!?

@  -LittleAutob... : (12 August 2020 - 10:35 AM)

sOmEoNe NoTiCeD-

@  wonko the sane? : (12 August 2020 - 07:37 AM)

I am the only one rooting for the rock these days?

@  Maximus Ambus : (12 August 2020 - 12:37 AM)

Sour grapes for the next decade until Apophis hits.

@  Hg Dragon : (11 August 2020 - 11:26 PM)

Thank yoo for vatching hydroolic pthress chan-nel.

@  Hg Dragon : (11 August 2020 - 11:19 PM)

Hey, do you have any grapes?

@  Otaku : (11 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

I dunno... it sounds kind of quackers to me.

@  -LittleAutob... : (11 August 2020 - 05:17 PM)

That would be nice....

@  TheMightyMol... : (11 August 2020 - 04:36 PM)

I wish I could just sit by a pond and watch ducks for a while.

@  Maximus Ambus : (11 August 2020 - 03:52 AM)

Others say Joe sat down at this pond next to these ducks but really there's just no place in this world for an old man and his ducks.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:48 PM)

Even worse when I can produce those verifiable facts at a later point, and then the other person simply claims the argument was the other way round (as in, I was actually arguing their position and vice versa).

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:47 PM)

I can argue with people about my versus their memory of events when verifiable facts are not readily available, though, and I get really annoyed when I'm capable of presenting a precise, step-by-step summary with multiple key points that can be used for future verification, and the other person just goes "nope, wrong" without going into detail.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:45 PM)

I forget things, and I misremember things. But when presented with verifiable facts, my reaction is more like "Huh, could have sworn it was like that", not "this reality is not my own".

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 06:43 PM)

I have an extremely good memory (which I have proven time and again), and even I can be mistaken.

@  NotVeryKnightly : (10 August 2020 - 06:40 PM)

Might be worth pointing out that it only became "Mandela Effect" and not just "I remembered this wrong" when a conspiracy theorist insisted it was proof of alternate timelines.

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

Incorrectly remembering Nelson Mandela's fate may be uniquely American... but is it really that strange to get South African political history wrong when you're no where near South Africa?

@  Otaku : (10 August 2020 - 06:29 PM)

I always assumed the Mandela Effect was a "human thing", not an American thing.

@  wonko the sane? : (10 August 2020 - 02:03 PM)

Then there are people who outright manufacture memories for whatever reason.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (10 August 2020 - 01:13 PM)

The human brain is so flaky that it is extremely unlikely that a given person does NOT have any false memories.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:05 PM)

Perhaps it's simple word association the movie Sinbad and then our minds apply the same memories to a man named Sinbad.

@  OverDrive73 : (10 August 2020 - 01:04 PM)

The Mandela Effect is the same as people remembering Sinbad in a movie where he played a genie... Of which he never did.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:36 AM)

People that believe Mandela Effect things would rather come up with any number of reasons as to why their version doesn't have any actual evidence(like alternate timelines collapsing into our own) than just admit they remembered something wrong

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Sort of. It's more that when presented with a verifiable fact, they double down because it's what they believe instead of changing their minds

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

"I could have sworn that ______."

@  ▲ndrusi : (10 August 2020 - 09:25 AM)

I'm not arguing with either of those two statements, but they're not really connected. Mandela Effect is, to oversimplify, people being widely mistaken about what they think *is* a verifiable fact. Nothing to do with opinions.

@  MidnightFox : (10 August 2020 - 08:52 AM)

Pretty sure the Mandela Effect in general is an American thing. Opinion > Verifiable Facts is sadly a pretty American thing

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:27 AM)

Ask these people how Apartheid ended according to their recollection, and I'm sure they'll draw a blank.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:25 AM)

You got two black anti-Apartheid activists who were imprisoned by the oppressive regime. One died, the other was Nelson Mandela. It's not a far stretch that Americans who don't know many details about the history of other countries would mix up the two.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:24 AM)

My own theory is that these people are simply mixing up Nelson Mandela and Steve Biko, another South African anti-Apartheid activist, who did indeed die in police custody in 1977. There was an Oscar-nominated movie about his life starring Denzel Washington that came out in 1987, the same time frame these people claim remembering Mandela dying.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:17 AM)

I met a few people from South Africa, and they either never heard of the phenomenon at all, or only know of it from the internet. Apparently, it's completely unknown in South Africa, and it might even be entirely limited to the United States.

@  Nevermore : (10 August 2020 - 04:16 AM)

So does anyone remember the "Mandela Effect"? I'm talking specifically about the original case where many people vividly remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980s.

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (10 August 2020 - 03:16 AM)

Crisis of Corona.

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 06:16 PM)

Which crisis crossover are we on now? I lost track.

@  Rycochet : (09 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

Much of the past decade has been the part of the comic series where less than stellar authors have driven the series into the ground and the editors are getting ready to either do a big multi issue crossover, leading to a reboot.

@  Bass X0 : (09 August 2020 - 02:28 PM)

At this point I've just decided to consider 2020 "not canon."

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 02:18 PM)

'member Pepperidge Farm?

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 August 2020 - 02:10 PM)

Before the 'member berries there was Pepperidge farm. Pepperidge farm remembers.

@  OverDrive73 : (09 August 2020 - 12:21 PM)

>>>Shameless Plug<<< FYI. posted the last part of Quest for Tires in Allspark Pictures

@  SG Roadbuster : (08 August 2020 - 01:53 PM)

@Nevermore yes.

@  Nevermore : (08 August 2020 - 09:11 AM)

Is $30 a good deal for Subscription Service Breakdown?

@  Trpodeca : (08 August 2020 - 06:24 AM)

Oh dear God no. Twitter has changed it's default layout to the terrible new one. Why waste so much space on the left?


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X-Men Gold's Anti-Semitic Controversy

ResurrXion Syaf X-Men Gold

56 replies to this topic

#1 Cat

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 12:46 PM

This is without a doubt the biggest scandal we've seen involving an artist inserting 'subliminal' background messages into his art. This time it's direct messages of hate to non-Muslims, particularly Christians and Jews. The culprit is artist Ardian Syaf, and the comic is X-Men Gold #1. These are just some examples: Colossus is shown wearing a shirt with the text 'QS 5:51', as in Quran Surah (chapter) 5,verse 51, which references not taking Christians or Jews as allies or leaders (the artist, Ardian Syaf, is Indonesian, so the references were very much made with an Indonesian interpretation of the Quran in mind). Syaf also references hardline Muslim protests which took place in Indonesia, and on a splash page highlighting team leader Kitty Pryde he's put a store sign right next to her head, where a caption box might normally go. It's a stylised 'Jewelry' sign, with a spacious 'w' providing some separation to the eye of the first 3 letters. Subtle.

Later on in a baseball scene, it also appears that, due to suspicious placement and foreshortening, he's drawn Kitty getting smashed in the face by the baseball bat (note this isn't shown in the initial Bleeding Cool article).

Marvel's been on nothing but a downhill slide for me, and it's entirely of their own doing. This time though, I do genuinely feel for them, as there's simply never been an artist whose wanted to end his own career this badly, so how could they have predicted this? Since this came to light, and Marvel announced future printings would be altered, the book has moved to a sold out status at Diamond, as people try and get their hands on what they think will be a valuable curiousity: 'the really racist Marvel comic'. It seems this may be the only way Marvel can get a chart-topper these days (that isn't Star Wars). Pretty sad.

Links: https://www.bleeding...ks-x-men-comic/

https://www.bleeding...-1-controversy/

https://www.bleeding...ened-yesterday/

Edited by Cat, 09 April 2017 - 03:37 PM.


#2 Rust

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 01:02 PM

The fact Marvel's stated they will be taking "disciplinary action" as opposed to "termination" speaks volumes here. Like they literally can't afford to let him go or something.



#3 Daith

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 01:47 PM

It's a tough political call. On one hand Syaf pushing his views in like this was some strong. But if they terminate him for his views it's a strike against Freedom of Speech move. But chances are they won't be using his services in the future much longer afterwards.


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#4 ZacWilliam1

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 02:09 PM


That's not how freedom of speech works. He was under contract to produce a certain thing for Marvel. If he inserted offensive political opinions in that work without Marvel's knowledge that's not exercising any protected freedom it's breaching his contract and his employers trust.

ZacWilliam, I would say it's pretty unlikely he'll work for Marvel or any big name western comic company again.
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#5 Daith

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 02:23 PM

Well I'm not wanting to argue the whole thing here but there's no doubt he just tanked his career in the western world.


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#6 Caldwin

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 05:29 PM

I don't care to enter any big debate. But simple fact is that careers and reputations have been tanked for less. If Marvel wants to save face over this, they pretty much have to disavow being any part of this and distance themselves from this guy.

Not defending or condemning, but Mel Gibson and Micheal Richards both became pariahs for things said in the heat of the moment. What this guy did was premeditated. So yeah, if he has a job at Marvel for any amount of time after this, Marvel's going to look pretty bad.
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#7 Maruten

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 05:48 PM

Thread title was very worrying, I'm super happy to see that this wasn't something inserted in the book deliberately by the writer, or an error like that time Wolvie called Sabretooth a [bleep].

 

Artists put a heap of weird junk into their pages and one can't expect editors and writers to catch or question all of it. Colossus' shirt, though, looks to me like it obviously has some meaning that perhaps the editors should have shot out a quick email to clarify. So that's unfortunate. 

 

And perhaps this is all more innocent than it looks, though that seems unlikely. 


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#8 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 05:50 PM

It's a tough political call. On one hand Syaf pushing his views in like this was some strong. But if they terminate him for his views it's a strike against Freedom of Speech move. But chances are they won't be using his services in the future much longer afterwards.

 

Yeah; there's no "freedom of speech" about this. 

 

He inserted his own personal political and religious views into something without sanction, views that are so to the extreme of what is acceptable in North America that he's pretty much killed the title. His antics are going to cost Marvel dearly, and so they have all the right in the world to can him. 



#9 Nutjob R/T

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 05:50 PM

"Freedom of speech" means the government can't censor you.

It don't mean you can sneak religious hate speech into contracted work in a story-world based around protection, inclusion, and celebration of diversity and not have the commissioner throw out and replace your work for undercutting your themes and decide to not work with you anymore.

If they do keep him on I hope they publically appoint someone with specific training to comb through specifically his work to pick out any further hate speech, remove it, and post it on a Continuing Wall Of Shame.

Edited by Nutjob R/T, 09 April 2017 - 05:53 PM.

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#10 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 05:57 PM

Thread title was very worrying, I'm super happy to see that this wasn't something inserted in the book deliberately by the writer, or an error like that time Wolvie called Sabretooth a [bleep].

 

Artists put a heap of weird junk into their pages and one can't expect editors and writers to catch or question all of it. Colossus' shirt, though, looks to me like it obviously has some meaning that perhaps the editors should have shot out a quick email to clarify. So that's unfortunate. 

 

And perhaps this is all more innocent than it looks, though that seems unlikely. 

If the artist simply threw in some in-jokes or nods to his soccer pals, it'd be one thing. 

 

If the writer had two characters sitting down to have a chat about an issue, that'd be another. 

 

But something like this is so blatant and so persistent throughout the issue that there's no "oops" about it. He knew what he was doing the entire time. 



#11 Rust

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 06:03 PM

 

 

And perhaps this is all more innocent than it looks, though that seems unlikely. 

 

It isn't. Bleeding Cool has the pictures of social media of people bringing these to the artist's attention with remarks of acknowledgement.



#12 Tm_Silverclaw

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 06:17 PM

Ehh.. Honestly I have no problem with it, even if I don't agree with the ones he's quoting. People enter bible verses and crap like that -ALL- the time. 



#13 Maruten

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 07:05 PM

I just wonder what's involved in the discussions he's apparently having with Marvel given that supposedly he thinks it's all above board and has offered an explanation supporting that ("he has sent an explanation for the numbers used in the comic to Marvel and is waiting for a reply"). I can't see that flying but we're not privy to those conversations and I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

Regardless of whether he can justify his actions to Marvel, the damage is done, they've taken a hit and they're out of pocket correcting future prints. So I don't think there's any chance of a happy ending for that business relationship. (Which is not to say there's no chance of an ending!)


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#14 Internet Jesus

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 08:45 PM

Yeah, I think Marvel need to cut their losses and get a new artist on there quick.


But in the current, digitized world, trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness. Never fading, always accessible. Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander... All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate. It will only slow down social progress, reduce the rate of evolution. You seem to think that our plan is one of censorship. What we propose to do is not to control content, but to create context.


#15 Cat

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 09:05 PM

This is the baseball bat image I mentioned, one of the few that is still open to debate.

 

KlMIBL5.jpg

 

Considering everything else, I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. I find the placement of the characters in the second panel suspicious, especially the way the bat is foreshortened perfectly, and somewhat unnaturally, so it 'strikes' Kitty's face. Surely as an artist your instinct would be to leave the character's faces visible? I believe it's also notable that elements of the panel look like they could be taken out and viewed on their own as a political cartoon completely as is, and they'd fit perfectly. You've got the German hitting the Jew in the face with a baseball bat. 

 

 

IMO it's every bit the message that this confirmed one is: 

 

sKvS3Bl.jpg



#16 Fortress Ironhold

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 09:05 PM



Ehh.. Honestly I have no problem with it, even if I don't agree with the ones he's quoting. People enter bible verses and crap like that -ALL- the time. 

The issue is what what he inserted. 

 

If it was just some random reference, I doubt most people would care. But the reference in question is something that a lot of folks are basically taking to mean "if this person isn't of the same religion you are, make sure they stay a slave class or you'll regret it." 



#17 Cat

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

Ehh.. Honestly I have no problem with it, even if I don't agree with the ones he's quoting. People enter bible verses and crap like that -ALL- the time. 

 

But the quotes are encouraging divisiveness and hate against others, particularly Christians and Jews. That's particularly galling for people because this is the X-Men, which is the industry bastion for promoting tolerance and inclusion of people of all kinds, regardless of colour, gender, sexual identity, whatever. If that's not the pinnacle of misguided attempt at inflammation of hate, it's tippy-topped off by the fact that the X-Men were created by two Jewish guys, and X-Men Gold itself is actually being written by a Jewish guy. So promoting barriers and hate on this book is particularly misguided, as by its very nature this book stands for tolerance itself. 


Edited by Cat, 09 April 2017 - 09:25 PM.


#18 M Virion

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 09:37 PM

Yeah, even if the argument "People put Bible verses in" was comparable, you don't often see people sliding in Levitical passages.



#19 TM2-Megatron

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 10:03 PM

They should just can him and be done with it.  If this were a white artist who had inserted anti-Semitic or Islamophobic imagery or references in their work, would there even be a question of what to do with them?  I hope not.  There's enough divisiveness in our society as it is, we don't need more garbage like this.



#20 unluckiness

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 10:07 PM

Wait, X-Men Gold is Marvel's biggest book now?

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