Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Squawkbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

Please don't post Youtube videos in the chat box. The forums software auto embeds them. 

@  Nevermore : (25 May 2018 - 05:20 PM)

Unless I decide to do a voluntary Saturday shift.

@  Nevermore : (25 May 2018 - 05:20 PM)

I can stay up 2 or 3 AM, sleep as long as I want, do my chores, go to work, and look forward to two days of weekend, every week until the end of the year.

@  Nevermore : (25 May 2018 - 05:19 PM)

Working permanent late shift is awesome, despite the weird looks my coworkers give me.

@  Nevermore : (25 May 2018 - 05:18 PM)

Especially now that I have every Saturday off.

@  Nevermore : (25 May 2018 - 05:18 PM)

I'm so glad I have a guaranteed five-day work week.

@  Paladin : (25 May 2018 - 01:58 PM)

first day off in ages & I wound up baked. and not in the fun way...

@  Telly : (24 May 2018 - 10:22 PM)

one thing im worried about if i get it is im gonna love it and then ill be lost in gundam models lol

@  Telly : (24 May 2018 - 10:21 PM)

ill have to keep an eye on that one

@  Steevy Maximus : (24 May 2018 - 01:18 PM)

https://www.gundamplanet.com/hg-ms-06-zaku-ii-type-c-c-5-gundam-the-origin-ver.html

@  Steevy Maximus : (24 May 2018 - 01:18 PM)

Bandai just released a new Zaku in the Origin line, looks like the new definitive at the HG price point

@  Liege : (24 May 2018 - 12:42 PM)

@Telly try the HG rather than the RG, there are a ton of great Zaku variants that are doable for beginners

@  RichardT1977 : (24 May 2018 - 11:02 AM)

If there is an economic system, somebody will find a way to abuse it for personal gain.

@  Otaku : (23 May 2018 - 01:18 PM)

@unluckiness I believe you are correct, but I didn't feel like looking it up so I didn't want to mention it. If that is the case, it isn't "capitalism" anyway. Maybe crapitalism (crony capitalism).

@  unluckiness : (23 May 2018 - 08:46 AM)

Like richard said, it's not inherently less healthy than table sugar. It's unhealthy in how it's in everything, leading to increased calorie intake that we don't even realize.

@  unluckiness : (23 May 2018 - 08:43 AM)

Also you try organizing a boycott of Coca frigging cola and see how far you get. Not to mention all the other processed foods that also make use of it that aren't as notorious for it

@  unluckiness : (23 May 2018 - 08:42 AM)

I believe the US government subsidizes corn farmers to such a degree that corn is stupidly cheap, making corporations lean towards it far more

@  Otaku : (23 May 2018 - 08:41 AM)

@SHIELD Agent 47 If HFCS was "caused" by capitalism, all it takes to solve it is people NOT buying it. As is, products that use actual sugar and countless alternative sweeteners are available. At least for big brands like Coca-Cola. ;)

@  unluckiness : (23 May 2018 - 08:40 AM)

And if doing so means that eventually is longer and less filled with complications, well, that junk food had better be the best junk ever

@  Otaku : (23 May 2018 - 08:39 AM)

@Paladin Quality of life. So many things I enjoyed as a kid have caused (or at least aggravated) health issues later in life. By later, I mean it started in my mid-20's. XP

@  unluckiness : (23 May 2018 - 08:39 AM)

THere's a difference between having some and constantly stuffing your face with calories.

@  Paladin : (23 May 2018 - 08:33 AM)

we all die eventually. why not enjoy the stuff that tastes good in the time we have?

@  unluckiness : (23 May 2018 - 08:26 AM)

HFCS is never good for you any way. It's nothing but monosaccharides basically

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (22 May 2018 - 11:32 PM)

*sigh* Wouldn't be that much of a problem if not for Western capitalism.

@  RichardT1977 : (22 May 2018 - 05:45 PM)

The only thing that makes HFCS more unhealthy than sugar is its lower cost.

@  Telly : (22 May 2018 - 03:20 PM)

looking at a video review and seeing all the tiny parts makes me think twice about it anyway

@  NotVeryKnightly : (22 May 2018 - 03:04 PM)

You should probably ask in the Gundam thread.

@  Telly : (22 May 2018 - 02:52 PM)

is this any good? i dont know about gundam models but want a good zaku https://www.amazon.c...0C7D2WQ09A9A9MZ

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 May 2018 - 12:33 PM)

Dammit, and I was just about to hook up this Coke IV directly to my bloodstream, too. Killjoy :p

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (22 May 2018 - 12:28 PM)

Recommendation: if you're going to fill your body up with junk food, try real sugar instead of HFCS.

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 May 2018 - 12:10 PM)

Not so much that it's worth the extra money to buy it in glass bottles all the time (I think the most you can get is a 6-pack of Coke in glass bottles around here, and it's signifcantly more expensive than 6 plastic), but every once in a while it's nice to drink from an old-fashioned bottle

@  TM2-Megatron : (22 May 2018 - 12:08 PM)

Personally, I find they also tend to taste better out of a glass bottle compared to the plastic ones used most of the time

@  wonko the sane? : (22 May 2018 - 11:27 AM)

None that I know of, but it's a neat fact. Sodas in glass bottles stay carbonated.

@  Paladin : (22 May 2018 - 11:00 AM)

what vending machines still use glass???

@  wonko the sane? : (22 May 2018 - 10:54 AM)

And it won't lose carbonation if it's a properly sealed glass bottle.

@  Steevy Maximus : (22 May 2018 - 10:51 AM)

The drink is safe to drink for a good while after, the expiration date seems to apply to how "good" it will be. Usually the carbonation gives out before anything starts growing or it becomes unsafe to consume

@  Paladin : (22 May 2018 - 10:31 AM)

out of curiosity, how solid are the expiration dates on soft drinks?

@  Steevy Maximus : (22 May 2018 - 10:25 AM)

Sure does feel like they are shoring themselves up against losing a significant source of revenue...

@  Steevy Maximus : (22 May 2018 - 10:25 AM)

So I guess Hasbro is going to be making Overwatch toys now

@  Otaku : (19 May 2018 - 02:17 PM)

@TM2-Megatron Yeah, it is like @TheMightyMollusk says. The catch is that usually means they can contain beef, and I confirmed it by pushing my luck. XD So... yeah, if going to the theater was about watching the film, it might be worth potentially resting on the balls of my feet while technically sitting in the chair, but put it all together... and I just wait to watch it at home. Oh, and ticket prices, always ticket prices.

@  wonko the sane? : (19 May 2018 - 10:24 AM)

woot woot! Korean barbeque for dinner!

@  TheMightyMol... : (19 May 2018 - 05:51 AM)

It's meat scraps. Whatever's left over from cutting up the more choice cuts.

@  TM2-Megatron : (18 May 2018 - 11:26 PM)

Well, the hot dogs Cineplex has (pretty much our only big theatre chain) around here are quite good, but I have no idea of the composition, and honestly, it's probably better that way.

@  Otaku : (18 May 2018 - 10:01 PM)

@TM2-Megatron In my case, shouldn't risk the hot dogs, either. Maybe if they are guaranteed to contain NO beef (can't digest it anymore >_<).

@  Waspinator : (18 May 2018 - 08:12 PM)

Semper ubi sub ubi

@  Nevermore : (18 May 2018 - 01:18 PM)

Then classmate, I mean.

@  Nevermore : (18 May 2018 - 01:18 PM)

A classmate of mine once did one: Asked for the English term for [underpants], he replied "underground trousers".

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (18 May 2018 - 10:10 AM)

Urkomisch!

@  SHIELD Agent 47 : (18 May 2018 - 10:10 AM)

@Nevermore First time I have ever heard of this, but it sounds awesome!

@  Arazyr : (18 May 2018 - 08:39 AM)

We did that amongst ourselves in German class in college. We just called it "Germish", though.

@  Shrug : (18 May 2018 - 07:01 AM)

Nevermore, you've peaked my interest and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter


Photo
- - - - -

About Shout's Japanese Transformers DVDs...


46 replies to this topic

#21 Fear or Courage

Fear or Courage

    Do I compel you?

  • Citizen
  • 1968 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GTA, Canada
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:21 AM

They're worth watching once, especially since each set is like, less than 20 dollars. Each one is a trip in its own way, a combination of actual coolness and "what the hell is going on" randomness. I'd definitely call them better than Energon, and probably the Unicron Trilogy as a whole, just due to the manic energy of them all, compared to the UT's stiff sterility.

 

Honestly, the low quality and dodgy, inconsistent subtitles didn't really bug me, because I figured, at that price for 40-ish episodes a set, you get what you pay for.

 

A word of warning, though, there's some content missing here and there. The only major thing is a clipshow from Masterforce that happens after the series, that served the purpose of explaining some unresolved backstory threads.



#22 Jalaguy

Jalaguy

    won't hold Six Shot upside-down.

  • Staff
  • 8844 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Faction::RIRFIB

Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:23 AM

I take issue with the asserton that Headmasters has any "manic energy". Or indeed any energy at all, from what I've managed to force myself through.

Edited by Jalaguy, 08 February 2017 - 10:23 AM.


#23 Chris McFeely

Chris McFeely

    That was then, this is now.

  • Citizen
  • 9044 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:41 AM

The HM subs remain ropey across all versions, but it's only Shout's awkward modifications that are a problem for MF and V; the core subs for those were a good job.

 

(I mean, y'know, if I do say so myself.)



#24 Fear or Courage

Fear or Courage

    Do I compel you?

  • Citizen
  • 1968 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GTA, Canada
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:44 AM

I take issue with the asserton that Headmasters has any "manic energy". Or indeed any energy at all, from what I've managed to force myself through.

 

Actual lines:

 

"It's all thanks to that donkey"

"Absolutely. The donkey showed incredible bravery taking on that Decepticon to save the boy."

"Remarkable, these people of Earth, their animals, and the environment!"

 

That kinda weird stuff. Admittedly it's been a couple of years, so maybe I'm combining the shows in my head.



#25 LV!

LV!

    A tendency to speak in jest

  • Citizen
  • 14755 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Bus

Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:48 AM

There are a bunch of parts of Headmasters that sound wacky and awesome when you write about them that are a big string of Zs when you actually watch them, though.



#26 Sabrblade

Sabrblade
  • Citizen
  • 24800 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa, FL
  • Faction::Maximal

Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:54 AM

 

So the subs on these aren't very good, eh? I'll definitely look for a bargain in trying to get them bit by bit, then.

 

Thanks for the help, all!

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

 

To be clear, they're only bad in that quite a lot of characters' names are changed in sorta arbitrary ways.

Not just names, but several lines of dialogue were just rewritten for the sake of it, making them say things that completely differed from what was being spoken onscreen. For instance, the title of Episode 1, "Four Warriors Come out of the Sky", was instead changed in the subs to be just "Warriors from Space". And in a later instance, there's an episode where Cyclonus and Scourge grumble about having to take orders from Scorponok during Galvatron's absence, and while the dialogue has Soundblaster basically tell the two to just buck up and deal with it, the subs instead have him claim that Galvatron ordered Soundblaster to tell the two to follow Scorponok, which is not only wrong but makes Soundblaster sound like he made up fake orders from Galvatron to suit his own purposes, which goes against his character since that's something he'd never do.

 

Plus, a lot of terminology from Western TF media that never existed back in the 1980s (predominately terms from the then-new Aligned media and the IDW comics) were inserted into the subtitle scripts as well. Namely, practically every instance of a character expressing frustration through exclamations and expletives was subbed as "scrap", references to the Allspark were added, Chōkon Power became "Energon Power", Sixshot's rank as the Destron Dinobase Ninja Staff Officer was subbed as "Phase Six Decepticon officer", all of the cassettes were called "Deployers" (this was back when the Exodus novel described Soundwave's minions as Deployers, rather than the current RID toyline using that term to refer to the bigger partner who uses said minions), and the Breastforce was given the infamously completely-made-up renaming of "Chestforce".


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#27 Sabrblade

Sabrblade
  • Citizen
  • 24800 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa, FL
  • Faction::Maximal

Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:01 AM

From what I recall, the subtitle scripts weren't edited by Shout! Factory, but by Hasbro themselves (specifically, the Aaron Archer era version of Hasbro), so I lay the blame upon Hasbro rather than Shout! for the arbitrary changes made to the subs.

 

A word of warning, though, there's some content missing here and there.

For The Headmasters, it was mainly the pre-episode recaps and the post-episode/pre-end credits next-episode previews. But, for episodes 1 and 25, there was additional episode material that played before the title card where the recaps would normally go, and because these scenes played before the title card, they were missing from those two episodes as well.

 

However, this is consistent across the UK, Australian, and U.S. DVDs of The Headmasters, since Toei gave incomplete masters to all three companies.


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#28 Princess Viola

Princess Viola
  • Supporter
  • 23676 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Faction::Lesbian Ninja

Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:04 AM

The Headmasters is honestly like they were trying to mimick the 'feel' of the American series but just failed miserably.

dznwjievmaanw90kooil.png


#29 Powered Convoy

Powered Convoy

    Skywarp Connoisseur

  • Retired Staff
  • 61908 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::RIRFIB

Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:25 AM

Deployers is one that irks me.  Because it comes off as specifically Aligned bible like, and I don't like it.




#30 Sabrblade

Sabrblade
  • Citizen
  • 24800 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa, FL
  • Faction::Maximal

Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:26 AM

The Wiki's page for The Headmasters includes this little claim about some of the early episodes of the series:

 

According to the booklet included with the Pioneer DVD release of the series, the earliest episodes of the series were based on aborted scripts written for the unmade fourth season of the American cartoon


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#31 Powered Convoy

Powered Convoy

    Skywarp Connoisseur

  • Retired Staff
  • 61908 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::RIRFIB

Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:29 AM

 

doing a find and replace of all the times "blood" is mentioned and having "Bomburst" actually replace a reference to a human's blood.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA SERIOUSLY?? I think the worst the Metrodome subs got in that territory was when the Decepticons plotted to "mindwipe them all out!"

 

 

Yeah, I think it's specifically when Cancer hurts Minerva or something, and she is bleeding.  Shuta exclaims Bomburst rather than the blood coming out of Minerva.




#32 Jim S

Jim S

    Evil Genius

  • Citizen
  • 1510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Quadwal -3760.925 Theta
  • Faction::Unicron's Spawn

Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:05 PM

... and the Breastforce was given the infamously completely-made-up renaming of "Chestforce".


Unlike all the other parts of Transformers which aren't made up.

-JimS

#33 Chip

Chip

    Machine Saurer, my strength / Only you can understand my heart.

  • Citizen
  • 7188 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:09 PM

 

Sixshot's rank as the Destron Dinobase Ninja Staff Officer was subbed as "Phase Six Decepticon officer",

 

 

I should know this already, but is this the same rank that the dubs consistently translate as "Ninja Consultant"?



#34 Sabrblade

Sabrblade
  • Citizen
  • 24800 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa, FL
  • Faction::Maximal

Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:36 PM

 

 

Sixshot's rank as the Destron Dinobase Ninja Staff Officer was subbed as "Phase Six Decepticon officer",

 

 

I should know this already, but is this the same rank that the dubs consistently translate as "Ninja Consultant"?

 

Yes.


"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"
.
QUOTE(Bass X0 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the concept of being educated and being able to educate is something that more people need more of in their lives.

No, we don't all know everything but we should spread and share that what we do know.

If I'm consistently misspelling a word, I would want and expect people to correct me as should I imagine all decent people who know the value of good literacy.

Its just arrogant laziness to know you're spelling a word incorrectly and not correct yourself or ignore the advice when people do tell you how to spell a word correctly.

#35 sparkasylum

sparkasylum
  • Citizen
  • 1011 posts
  • Faction::Free Agent

Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:54 PM

 

 

doing a find and replace of all the times "blood" is mentioned and having "Bomburst" actually replace a reference to a human's blood.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA SERIOUSLY?? I think the worst the Metrodome subs got in that territory was when the Decepticons plotted to "mindwipe them all out!"

 

 

Yeah, I think it's specifically when Cancer hurts Minerva or something, and she is bleeding.  Shuta exclaims Bomburst rather than the blood coming out of Minerva.

 

 

Yep, that's it, I loved that part.



#36 Telly

Telly

    Killing forums since 1999!

  • Retired Staff
  • 7029 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:25 PM

This reminds me of the liner notes to that "Coming Out Of Their Shells" live TMNT band show thing, in which any word with "-don-" in it ended up replaced by "Donatello", such as:

 

"Ain't gonna stop until the Foot's undone" being rendered as "Ain't gonna stop until the Foot's unDonatello"

 

"The word 'gourmet' just don't exist" being rendered as "the word 'gourmet' just Donatello's exist"

 

i think i need this explained to me more. WHY would this be done? whats wrong with "don"?


When I die I will surely go to Heaven for i spent my life in Hell

#37 LV!

LV!

    A tendency to speak in jest

  • Citizen
  • 14755 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Bus

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:27 PM

I have no idea. I also would have thought it predated widespread find-and-replace word processing.



#38 Chip

Chip

    Machine Saurer, my strength / Only you can understand my heart.

  • Citizen
  • 7188 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:03 PM

I assume someone just balked at not using the trademarked term.



#39 LBD "Nytetrayn"

LBD "Nytetrayn"

    Quyzbuk

  • Supporter
  • 18189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto
  • Faction::Autobot

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:13 PM

 

 

Must....suppress...raucous....laughter...

 

So the subs on these aren't very good, eh? I'll definitely look for a bargain in trying to get them bit by bit, then.

 

Thanks for the help, all!

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

 

To be clear, they're only bad in that quite a lot of characters' names are changed in sorta arbitrary ways. It never bothered me because I can hear the names being said and I already know what they're supposed to be. If you're the kinda person who gets irked by characters saying "Rodimus Convoy" but the subs say "Rodimus Prime," and so on, then it will be bothersome to you. Otherwise it's fine

 

 

I think I'll manage. Pretty sure I've dealt in other stuff like that.

 

They're worth watching once, especially since each set is like, less than 20 dollars. Each one is a trip in its own way, a combination of actual coolness and "what the hell is going on" randomness. I'd definitely call them better than Energon, and probably the Unicron Trilogy as a whole, just due to the manic energy of them all, compared to the UT's stiff sterility.

 

Honestly, the low quality and dodgy, inconsistent subtitles didn't really bug me, because I figured, at that price for 40-ish episodes a set, you get what you pay for.

 

A word of warning, though, there's some content missing here and there. The only major thing is a clipshow from Masterforce that happens after the series, that served the purpose of explaining some unresolved backstory threads.

 

$30 a pop on Amazon.ca, unfortunately. Might just buy them off Amazon.com instead of .ca, since they're like $16 each there.

 

As for that missing part, at least I've got the wiki for that. I don't mind reading up some supplemental, but for an entire series, I'd rather watch as much as I can.

 

 

 

 

So the subs on these aren't very good, eh? I'll definitely look for a bargain in trying to get them bit by bit, then.

 

Thanks for the help, all!

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

 

To be clear, they're only bad in that quite a lot of characters' names are changed in sorta arbitrary ways.

Not just names, but several lines of dialogue were just rewritten for the sake of it, making them say things that completely differed from what was being spoken onscreen. For instance, the title of Episode 1, "Four Warriors Come out of the Sky", was instead changed in the subs to be just "Warriors from Space". And in a later instance, there's an episode where Cyclonus and Scourge grumble about having to take orders from Scorponok during Galvatron's absence, and while the dialogue has Soundblaster basically tell the two to just buck up and deal with it, the subs instead have him claim that Galvatron ordered Soundblaster to tell the two to follow Scorponok, which is not only wrong but makes Soundblaster sound like he made up fake orders from Galvatron to suit his own purposes, which goes against his character since that's something he'd never do.

 

Plus, a lot of terminology from Western TF media that never existed back in the 1980s (predominately terms from the then-new Aligned media and the IDW comics) were inserted into the subtitle scripts as well. Namely, practically every instance of a character expressing frustration through exclamations and expletives was subbed as "scrap", references to the Allspark were added, Chōkon Power became "Energon Power", Sixshot's rank as the Destron Dinobase Ninja Staff Officer was subbed as "Phase Six Decepticon officer", all of the cassettes were called "Deployers" (this was back when the Exodus novel described Soundwave's minions as Deployers, rather than the current RID toyline using that term to refer to the bigger partner who uses said minions), and the Breastforce was given the infamously completely-made-up renaming of "Chestforce".

 

 

So, like pretty much every anime I've ever seen dubbed, then, only it's subbed instead.

 

Sucks on the story thing, but I don't mind the terminology so much. Even though I know "Cybertrons," "Destrons," and even "Ninja Staff Officer," it's probably easier to keep track of in the longer run for terms and names unfamiliar to me.

 

The Headmasters is honestly like they were trying to mimick the 'feel' of the American series but just failed miserably.

 

From the bits I've seen, that's one of the most appealing parts to me.

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

 

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


qjWUWdm.gif1edr1cF.gif0g9jaoG.gifuWt4fLV.gif


#40 Cattleprod

Cattleprod
  • Citizen
  • 1944 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Faction::Decepticon

Posted 08 February 2017 - 05:30 PM

I don't think I got past episode four of Victory, and I'm not sure if it's due to quality or because it didn't feature characters I was familiar with. About 95% of characters in Headmasters and Masterforce existed in America or were repainted/remolded from someone that existed in America.





Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users