You said, and this is direct quote...
The closest example I can think of from history are the Jewish. There's also this added angle that Cyberdroids basically can't Transform into anything useful. Not much call for a free-floating head or engine, and the guns are all gone at this point, so their reputations suffer for that reason too.)
There's no line break. Nothing to indicate the start of a new train of thought. Your post where you explored this line of thought goes right from "they're a lot like the Jewish" to "they don't Transform into anything useful."
It's possible that you made a mistake and didn't intend those two sentiments to be as closely tied as they appear to be in the text, but that is how it's presented. So I don't feel like I'm particularly reaching when I say that, as a Jewish person, you saying the Transformers that have parallels to Jews "didn't transform into anything useful" took me by surprise.
I mean, sure, I said that. But in the context of:
(As an aside, I was just saying the other day that, in Builder society, Cyberdroids occupy a strange and uncomfortable niche. They're technically and LEGALLY Builders, which is really important in terms of the ability to own businesses, which Maximals and Predacons can't easily do. But socially they're viewed as outsiders. Maximals and Predacons, who make up the bulk of active society, don't count them as members. But Builders, who hold most of the wealth and political power, don't feel like they belong either. Micromasters are already looked down on for deigning to remain mobile, and they're basically the Builder military class. Cyberdroids, who have mostly turned to commerce, are distrusted on all sides. The closest example I can think of from history are the Jewish. There's also this added angle that Cyberdroids basically can't Transform into anything useful. Not much call for a free-floating head or engine, and the guns are all gone at this point, so their reputations suffer for that reason too.)
I thought it was pretty clear from context I was sharing general facts about Cyberdroids. Fact 1, fact 1, fact 3, fact 4, fact 5, fact 6, fact 7 (aside relating fact 7 to real life), fact 8. I didn't realize until this, your third post, that it was this very juxtaposition that was upsetting you. If you notice, I didn't deign to even address the criticism in my first reply, because I thought it was blatantly and obviously irrelevant. When pressed, I explained WHY I didn't think that part of the fairly long paragraph was relevant, with another example and with some humor. It's only now that I'm getting that this juxtaposition bothered you.
For what it's worth, I didn't read the juxtaposition as significant in any way. Obviously you did. That wasn't my intent.
So, I guess, I'm sorry if the comparison offended you.
...and that's the problem. I suppose I would be offended that you didn't find my comparison "valid" or "insightful," but given that you actually played the "I'm sorry if you were offended" card? Nah, that stuff doesn't bother me, really.
See, here's how I see this. You made a post about the Cyberdroids. You mentioned how they've been pushed into commerce and trade, and this makes them like historical Jewish populations. And then, without anything to indicate you were starting a new line of thought, said "they don't transform into anything useful."
Now you could have said "the not anything useful thing was unrelated to the parallels I saw with Jews, I'm sorry if I misrepresented what I was trying to say." Or you could have said "I didn't mean it like that, but I can see how, looking back, it doesn't look great. Sorry and here's what I meant."
But no. You went with the "I'm sorry you were offended" spiel, which is perhaps one of the most polite ways to say "hug you" there is. And this is why your dismissal of my criticism doesn't feel particularly forceful.
You come off as a guy who defaulted to IT'S YOUR FAULT IF YOU'RE MAD the moment someone mentioned something you may have said could be problematic.
I think I *DID* say that the not useful thing was unrelated to the parallels!
And further, this aspect doesn't feel relevant to what made me draw the comparison in the first place. If anything, their transformation is more analogous to, say, the US Vietnam Veterans returning home. They made sacrifices and picked up a very specific set of skills, skills that were CRITICALLY valuable during the war. But those skills didn't translate to civilian life, and the population didn't value the sacrifice because of other complicated factors. What was once a huge asset is now a liability. That's a story I could write. (Hopefully in a way that's respectful to veterans.)
No, I genuinely didn't see any way in which my comparison was problematic. Now that you've explained that it's the juxtaposition of my aside with fact 8, I guess I can kind of see it.
But I don't think I'm playing any cards here. I don't like that you're offended. But upon review, I still don't see anything problematic in my behavior. Perhaps I'd put in a couple of parenthesis, or list the fact of the (currently) useless alt modes at a different point in the paragraph.
And assuming you're a decent guy who means what he says when you say...
Rather, after their creation it seems like there were a few parallels. I didn't, and don't, see those parallels as negative.
...it just comes off as you being hyper-defensive over a poorly worded quote that didn't properly reflect what you were trying to say.
Defensive? That wasn't what I was going for. (I was going for dismissive.) And again, until your third post, I really wasn't understanding the root of your criticism.
Because yeah. As a Jewish person? Going "these guys are like Jews, and also they're not useful" is hugging insulting. That's what's on the page, man. And if you didn't intend for those thoughts to be related? You should, at the very least, have the common decency to go "oh crap, that doesn't look great, ok here's what I meant."
It's a better way of dealing with things then providing the most patronizing non-apology you could think of.
Well, FWIW, the idea that THAT was what I was trying to say was SO far removed from my intention, and my cold read on the quote 2 years later, that I didn't even realize that that's what you were getting at until just now.
Again, not what I was going for. I meant it as one fact in a laundry list of many. A fact that draws closer parallels to a different marginalized group.
So... I think I'm done here. You're obviously taking this way more personally than I am. I genuinely am sorry if you're offended. I'm genuinely not sorry about what I wrote, and I think it's clear from context that I wasn't intending it the way you took it. I hope it's 100% clear now that that's now how I meant it.
As ever, you're welcome to love, hate, like, dislike, praise, or trash my stuff, and I suppose that includes my message board posts.
PS: I was trying to lighten up the tone with some memes. Guess it didn't work.
PPS: Dayum! The wiki definitely saw more parallels than I did! I'm a better writer than I thought!
Edited by Jim S, 08 August 2018 - 11:24 PM.