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@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 06:16 PM)

Which crisis crossover are we on now? I lost track.

@  Rycochet : (09 August 2020 - 05:18 PM)

Much of the past decade has been the part of the comic series where less than stellar authors have driven the series into the ground and the editors are getting ready to either do a big multi issue crossover, leading to a reboot.

@  Bass X0 : (09 August 2020 - 02:28 PM)

At this point I've just decided to consider 2020 "not canon."

@  TheMightyMol... : (09 August 2020 - 02:18 PM)

'member Pepperidge Farm?

@  Maximus Ambus : (09 August 2020 - 02:10 PM)

Before the 'member berries there was Pepperidge farm. Pepperidge farm remembers.

@  OverDrive73 : (09 August 2020 - 12:21 PM)

>>>Shameless Plug<<< FYI. posted the last part of Quest for Tires in Allspark Pictures

@  SG Roadbuster : (08 August 2020 - 01:53 PM)

@Nevermore yes.

@  Nevermore : (08 August 2020 - 09:11 AM)

Is $30 a good deal for Subscription Service Breakdown?

@  Trpodeca : (08 August 2020 - 06:24 AM)

Oh dear God no. Twitter has changed it's default layout to the terrible new one. Why waste so much space on the left?

@  Steevy Maximus : (07 August 2020 - 08:28 PM)

@Bass X0, yeah, the Joe comic got REALLY solid in the upper 20s to the Cobra Civil War. It's interesting to see how well the Joe comic has aged relative to the cartoon. Where as I feel the opposite is true of Transformers

@  -LittleAutob... : (07 August 2020 - 03:58 PM)

Its so fun watching past TF Conventions.

@  Bass X0 : (07 August 2020 - 02:20 PM)

I've been reading classic 80s G.I. Joe lately. Its still decent even though I don't have any nostalgia towards it.

@  Sabrblade : (07 August 2020 - 08:50 AM)

Think of it as Adam West Batman instead. ;)

@  wonko the sane? : (07 August 2020 - 07:49 AM)

That sounds more like the flash, or maybe booster gold than batman.

@  Sabrblade : (07 August 2020 - 12:27 AM)

They would get bored fighting each other and instead decide to take an epic cross-country road trip together.

@  RichardT1977 : (06 August 2020 - 08:57 PM)

What would happen if Batman were to fight Squirrel Girl?

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 09:03 PM)

Unless you count the Mask vs Lobo special, but that's less a duel and more a duet.

@  PlutoniumBoss : (04 August 2020 - 08:52 PM)

My favorite crossover fight was Thor vs Shazam/Captain Marvel. Early in the fight, Thor discovers that Billy Batson needs lightning to transform, and being a god of lightning he simply denies him that.

@  Sabrblade : (04 August 2020 - 08:46 PM)

Let's see a fight between Death Battle and Super Power Beat Down

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

Which Lobo later claimed was because he was paid to take a dive. Yes, really.

@  TheMightyMol... : (04 August 2020 - 06:15 PM)

And then there's the times it's been decided by a fan vote, which is how we get things like Lobo (who can go toe-to-toe with Superman at full strength) losing to Wolverine.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

And then there are the "but my favorite characater will totes win because I say so" people.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:49 PM)

I mean, there are some people who really approach this from a somewhat reasonable standpoint, coming up with a plausible scenario and a setting that creates a fair environment that doesn't favor one character.

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:46 PM)

My favorite stupid "why would they even fight each other" question recently was about three versions of Optimus Prime (G1, Bayverse and Aligned).

@  Nevermore : (04 August 2020 - 05:45 PM)

Batman obviously can beat everyone. Even Galactus. He's Batman. He's so smart, he'll just throw a Batarang and hit the weak spot at Galactus's forehead, knocking him out instantaneously.

@  wonko the sane? : (04 August 2020 - 11:37 AM)

It's almost like all drama is just manufactured pissing contests to keep us all entertained and distracted. :p

@  Tm_Silverclaw : (04 August 2020 - 10:16 AM)

Or they could go White Ranger vs Scorpion route and have both win. ;P

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:35 AM)

Besides, we all know the answer is nearly always "they fight to a standstill and then team up against a common enemy."

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:29 AM)

The best way to prove this is to give an example where the match is really lopsided in favor of one character but in popularity they're either evenly matched or the weaker one is more popular.

@  ▲ndrusi : (04 August 2020 - 09:27 AM)

The "who would win in a fight" discussions are really just people trying to make "which one's better" into something you can theoretically measure objectively, usually in a very specific way they think they've predetermined their favorite will win.

@  Otaku : (04 August 2020 - 02:01 AM)

@Nevermore So... you're saying you didn't like DC Versus Marvel/Marvel Versus DC?

@  Steevy Maximus : (03 August 2020 - 06:59 PM)

So, what happened to Hasbro's Zoids relaunch? An English dub, some stuff in southeast Asia, and now a game coming in October? That it?

@  wonko the sane? : (03 August 2020 - 10:46 AM)

Tidal wave, cause shooting water gets you nowhere.

@  Darth Gonzo : (03 August 2020 - 09:57 AM)

Who would win Tidal Wave or Broadside?

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 August 2020 - 08:17 AM)

Btw Happy birthday to those people in the box to the right \o/

@  -LittleAutob... : (03 August 2020 - 08:16 AM)

The bottom line is obvious. It makes no literal sense to fight someone on your faction. :/

@  wonko the sane? : (03 August 2020 - 06:14 AM)

That's because you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to just stack skills and ability against each other. It's not the palace of doom, it's an episode of american gladiators.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:32 AM)

The only obvious winners of such a fight would be the bad guys.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:29 AM)

And what does it even matter? They should work together, not stupidly fight each other for the mindless entertainment of idiot onlookers.

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:29 AM)

Why would two good guys fight each other? What are they fighting over?

@  Nevermore : (03 August 2020 - 04:28 AM)

I never understood these "who would win in a fight between two good guys" discussions. They make no sense to me.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 August 2020 - 04:17 PM)

If G1 had continued we'd have had Starscream back in spirit - through Krunk, Snapdragons partner and possibly Skullcruncher unless he was mute.

@  Bass X0 : (02 August 2020 - 12:28 PM)

There are some decent impersonators in fandubs though.

@  -LittleAutob... : (02 August 2020 - 10:45 AM)

The only true Starscream voices are Steve Blum and Chris Latta, hands down.

@  Sabrblade : (02 August 2020 - 10:14 AM)

Why they didn't have Scott McNeil voicing that Starscream, when he was the one who had imitated Chris Latta when he voiced Cobra Commander in the DiC G.I. Joe cartoon, is beyond me.

@  wonko the sane? : (02 August 2020 - 09:57 AM)

Say what you will, that was an awesome scene.

@  Maximus Ambus : (02 August 2020 - 08:36 AM)

Beast Wars Starsream "I am AIR COMMANDER Starscream of the DECEPTICON BATTLEFLEET!"

@  Nevermore : (02 August 2020 - 07:02 AM)

I liked TF: Prime Starscream.

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 August 2020 - 08:36 PM)

Hearing Starscream's screechy voice in Cyberverse has to be the most annoying thing ever in Transformers. Even his G1 voice wasn't as bad. :doh

@  -LittleAutob... : (01 August 2020 - 08:35 PM)


* * * * * 1 votes

Evolution of G1 designs.


16 replies to this topic

#1 D.M

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 10:26 PM

*Pictured here are all known designs of this and that character.
*All designs are traced over for sake of consistent quality.
1. The legs on the xerox copy have been cut off so I drew the missing bit based on this designs appearance on Marvel US issue 1 cover.
The alt. mode's traced over Diaclone prototype cab, with details adjusted to match the robot mode. So take this alt mode as what it may have looked like. I've omitted the trailer as it wasn't fully visible in the Diaclone catalog where the prototype was showcased. The colours are based on that prototype.
2. Kohara Prime. Colours based on the toy.
3. First Dery Prime. Colours based on the first commercial and the concept art where this design was used.
4. The revised colours that made appearance in the second commercial (the one where Prime drives off the cliff)
5. This is the one from Ron Friedman auction. Colours are of this revision.
6. Final design, final colours.
1. Kohara Megatron. Colours based on Microman prototype on which this design was based on.
2. First Dery Megatron. This design appears in TF Universe. Colours based on early commercials.
3. The revised Dery Megatron as seen in Ron Friedman material (if you look at that one, you'll notice the shape of "crotch trigger" is still there). Colours based on early commercials.
4. Speculative colour scheme based on Yomtov scheme and the early commercials scheme.
5. Pre-final colours that made appearance in some of the Japanese TV magazine issues and Akom animated episodes.
6. Final colours.
The gun mode:

Which one belongs to which design:
1. Kohara gun mode.
2. 2 and 3.
3. 4 and 5.
4. 5 and 6.

(Final version of gun mode is yet to appear anywhere)

1. Kohara Starscream. Colours based on a Diaclone painting.
2. First Dery Starscream. Matching colour scheme as seen in the early commercials. (And yes, he doesn't have a mouth. Just like in the early commercials)
3. Possible pre-final colour scheme that made appearance in "Ghost in the machine".
4. Final design and its colours.
1. Kohara Thundercracker. Colours based on Joustra boxart.
2. First Dery Thundercracker. Matching colour scheme as seen in the early commercials.
3 & 4. Final colours.
1. Kohara Skywarp. Colours based on preliminary version of the 1984 space battle boxart. In some early material, Skywarp's refereed to as olive-drab jet.
2. First Dery Skywarp. Matching colour scheme as seen in the early commercials.
3. Colours of this revision.
4. Final design, final colours.

1. First design. Colours based on toy prototype.
2. Cleaned up first design. Colours based on possible early colour scheme that appeared in some issues of Japanese TV magazine (albeit it was applied on final design).
3. Matching colours.
4. Ditto.
5. Final design, final colours.


1. First design with what appeared to be preliminary colours.

2. Matching colours.

3. Matching colour scheme, used in Akom animated eps.

4. Final colours.


1. Speculative colour scheme based on the toy.

2. Matching colour scheme.

3. Colour scheme seen in Akom animated eps and in those animated by the studio that did "Starscream's ghost" and "Only human".

4 & 5. These two right here are a testament to how hectic making of season 3 was. Within same episode you could see BOTH of these designs (with 3rd version making an occasional appearance too) which must've confused the hell out of colourists.

In fact, I'm not even sure which one's the final colour scheme. In TF:TM, Rodimus retained Hot-Rod colour scheme, but then in season 3 in non-Akom eps both schemes were used. It's baffling. Though personally, I prefer the darker scheme.
The mess just got bigger. During short conversation with Chris McFeely, he pointed out something that I completely missed - that last design pictured here is NOT final. Evidence in the episodes point out to two possibilities:
A) Another design exists
B) Animators were instructed to draw Hot-Rod's body with revised Rodimus head.

Here's a mockup of what the final model may look like:


One of the TF's who went through very little changes. Middle ones colours are based on the one from Ron Friedman auction.


Kinda funny how it took more than one attempt to get his "wings" right.
Anyway, as for the colours:
1st one's based on the boxart and the toy.
2nd, 3rd and 4th on pre-final colour scheme (in robot mode, only the left arm is coloured differently).
5th one's final.


1st and 2nd - Diaclone red
3rd - Toy colours
4th - Final cartoon colour scheme


1st - Diaclone yellow
2nd - Based on colour model sheet from Ron Friedman auction
3rd - Final


1st & 2nd - Toy prototype.
2nd - Matching early colour scheme.
3rd - Matching early colour scheme.
4th - Final


1st - Toy prototype
2nd - Toy/boxart
3rd - 4th designs colour scheme
4th, 5th and 6th - Matching colour schemes

(NOTE: It may be possible that the 3rd pictured design is actually the first design)


1st - Toy/Comic book.
2nd - Early colour scheme as seen in the Ron Friedman auction.
3rd - Final colours.


1st - Toy
2nd - Pre-final colour scheme used by Akom
3rd - Final


1st - Boxart/Toy
2nd - Concept art painting which features this version of the design. It appears that he early on had Kup like colour scheme.
3rd - I don't know which version accompanies this version of the alt. modes, hence the block coloured robot mode with a question mark. The alt. modes are coloured accordingly as per the model sheet.
4th - Pre-final colours.
5th - Final.


1st - Toy/Boxart
2nd - Final


1st - Toy prototype/TF universe profile
2nd - Matching early colour scheme
3rd - Same as above
4th - Ditto
5th - Final


1st - Toy prototype
2nd - Matching early colour scheme
3rd - Same
4th - Final


1st - Toy prototype
2nd - Early colour scheme
3rd - Ditto
4th - Matching pre-final colour scheme
5th - Final


1st - Shackwave
2nd - Boxart
3rd - Final


1st - Toy prototype
2nd - Robot mode: Concept art painting Alt mode: Toy
3rd - Matching early colour scheme
4th - Ditto
5th - Final


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Toy
3rd - Final cartoon colour scheme


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Toy
3rd - Final cartoon colour scheme


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Toy
3rd - Matching colour scheme
4th - Final


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Diaclone variant 2
3rd - Matching pre-final colour scheme
4th & 5th - Final


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Toy
3rd - Pre-final cartoon colour scheme
4th - Final

Edited by D.M, 29 December 2016 - 06:52 PM.

#2 Cat

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:37 PM

I cannot like this enough. Can I request Prowl for a future instalment?
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#3 D.M

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 07:50 AM

Sure. I'll do Prowl after Rodimus. :)

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#4 Xero Prime

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    its like drinking a My Little Pony

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 12:40 PM

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#5 D.M

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 11:07 AM

Hit the number of images limit in the first post so new ones will be in this post. :)


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Final


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Matching pre-final colour scheme
3rd - Final.


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Toy
3rd - Final cartoon


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Toy
3rd - Pre-final cartoon
4th - Final cartoon


1st - Diaclone
2nd - Toy
3rd - Final cartoon


1. Diaclone
2. Toy
3. Final cartoon scheme


NOTE: The early version of these two are reconstructed from a ultra low quality xerox copy so accuracy is far from 100%.


1. Boxart
2. Yomtov
3. Commercial
4. Final cartoon colour scheme

NOTE: While there's no evidence yet for masked pointy "eared" version to exist, I did it anyway.

BONUS: Soundblaster


1. Final cartoon Frenzy colour scheme
2. Final cartoon Rumble colour scheme


1. Microman blue variant
2. Boxart/Toy
3. Matching pre-final colour scheme
4. Final colour scheme


1. Toy
2 & 3. Final cartoon colour scheme


1. Toy
2. Yomtov
3. Final prior to cross removal
4. Final post cross removal

NOTE: It appears that for the final alt. mode animators were instructed to refer to transformation chart, rather than the model sheet, as it depicts his vehicle mode with revised door windows (This may be the case with Ironhide as well). Revised season 2 head not included as it's nowhere to be found online.


1. Toy
2. Pre-final cartoon colour scheme
3. Final


1. Diaclone.
2. This particular version appeared in "Heavy metal war" and in some scenes in "S.O.S Dinobots". Colours based on "Heavy metal war" appearance.
3 & 4. Final colours.


1. Diaclone protoype
2. Diaclone
3. Final cartoon colour scheme


1. Toy
2. Final cartoon colour scheme


1. Toy
2. Canadian variant
3. Matching season 1 colour scheme
4. Matching season 2 colour scheme


1. Possible early colour scheme. Robot mode is based on what is probably just a colouring error that showed up sort of in two scenes of "S.O.S Dinobots", but the Dino mode scheme, which showed up in the same episode and also showed up in "Ultimated doom part 2" likely is an actual early colour scheme as the two eps were done by two different animation teams.
2. Final colour scheme.

Edited by D.M, 27 December 2016 - 11:39 PM.

#6 fleetlord

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 03:00 AM

nice post :)

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#7 D.M

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 07:58 PM

Added Sludge and Slag. That's all for now. :)

EDIT: Just one more addition - Megatron's gun mode

Edited by D.M, 28 December 2016 - 08:55 PM.

#8 D.M

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:53 PM

Updated Evolution of Kup, added first design with insignia (3rd figure)

#9 Powered Convoy

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:00 PM

Don’t know how I missed this for so long.  It’s brilliant.


Sorry, not sorry for bumping this thread.

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#10 Powered Convoy

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:25 PM

Love that you got Skywarp’s knees correctly.  Minor nitpick, that Starscream and Thundercracker’s nosecones match their main body color and Thundercracker’s chest vents are not medium gray but match the rest of his biceps or more commonly are slightly darker.  :)

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#11 Shadewing


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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:38 PM

...I kinda now want to buy Seekers that use both of Starscream's early colors...

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#12 Copper Bezel

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:42 PM

It's not a good idea, but for my personal taste, I'd love to see the first Dery color layout as the basis for his deco in the next reboot. = ]

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Shouldn't gravity be doing something?
Of course there's a figure of Rodimus as some kind of animal girl. Why would I be surprised by this?


#13 Powered Convoy

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:30 AM

...I kinda now want to buy Seekers that use both of Starscream's early colors...

I want that the Skywarp one.


#14 RenegadeHoist



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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:37 AM

Love me some Diaclone Snarl colors! No wonder Kup & Hot Rod had limited energon goodies in TFTM '86, cos clearly "Early Springer" was helping himself snacking earlier in the journey..


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#15 Spark

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 10:57 AM

You know, I came to this thread over a year late and I just want it pinned or something.  This is great.

Fall of Cybertron will blow your mind. That is all.

#16 -LittleAutobot1218-


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Posted 24 May 2020 - 11:14 AM

I just love this!! You can clearly see the color and design evolution that the characters went through!! Amazing!

Just... ugh. Skywarp's olive green xDDD

And Sunstreaker's and Sideswipe's colors were originally reversed! Unbelievable OoO


#17 Nevermore


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Posted 01 June 2020 - 04:41 AM

Time to revise Bluestreak!







Big thanks to my dad for playing along with this visual recreation.

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